Sequencers, Humanization, Groove and Feel with Alexkid - Music Production Podcast #358

Alexkid is a music producer and plug-in designer. He's been releasing house music for decades and designing Max for Live devices for Ableton and Isotonik Studios. Alex now runs 510k Arts, where he releases his powerful sequencers, including the new VST/AU plug-in Seqund. 

Alexkid and I spoke about his work, music, and experience designing sequencers. He went into great detail about the subtle art of humanization and how groove and feel are an integral part of his sound and sequencer design. He shared his philosophies about having a playful mindset and the importance of moving fast while creating. 

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:00.822)

And we're on. Welcome to the show, Alex Kidd. Good to have you, man.

Alexkid (00:03.582)

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Brian Funk (00:07.526)

I've been using some of your devices for, man, it was like a long time ago actually, I think it was the Instant House Maxx for Live device that I think was released through Ableton. I mean, you've released stuff through Ableton, Isotonic, and now you've got your own company, 510K Arts. But Instant House, I think was my first exposure to your work. And it was just kind of like you put it on and there's your beat and just go.

Alexkid (00:15.526)

Wow, this one, yeah.

Alexkid (00:23.932)

Yeah.

Alexkid (00:35.834)

that those were my first devices and when I look inside I mean they're so clunky, I mean they're still clunky, I'm really not a good patcher as we say in the Max for Live lingo. But yeah I think what I try to do is as much as possible to have

ideas that people will use and that was one of them. It actually was really successful, this one, the Instant House. A lot of people still tell me about it and it's just a collection of patterns that mix and match.

Brian Funk (01:21.358)

Well, it's so practical. You know, sometimes things that are simple are just really useful in that. You know, you just kind of load it up and you can, if you like the pattern, you're good to go. If you want a different one, just click a button. It changes it up. But I think what I like about it, and I don't even make house music, so it's just, they're just good beats too. It just gets you going. Gives you a starting place. A lot of times when I write music, I might just.

Alexkid (01:46.63)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:49.634)

go on the drum kit and just play a beat and then make something up over it because you just want something to get into the feel and the groove with.

Alexkid (01:58.878)

start with yeah I think this is this is actually the reason why I started doing Max For Life patches just to get a starting point I've been producing for now for 30 31 to 32 years producing electronic music 48 I started I was I mean I'm gonna turn 49 I started I was 16 17 with machines

and at some point you know like when they say that you don't teach an old dog new tricks I have that problem it's just you know I'm doing stuff and I'm like that's boring

It's like I always make the same things. I always play the same thing, you know. So I wanted to create something within my thought process, but at the same time that would surprise me. And because I love polyrhythms, I started playing with sequencers that would have certain features that I couldn't find anywhere else. And that's how I started like getting more and more involved.

with Max for Live. So I did the first patch that was a clap machine that was just like really to try. And then actually one of the very next ones was the Instant House. Instant House. And then eventually iterations and iterations I did my sequences.

Brian Funk (03:35.934)

Right, you just start with something you need really to fulfill your own use case.

Alexkid (03:41.442)

Yeah, it's, you know, I wanted to be able to press something and be like, that's good or that's not, you know, and, and then you take like a big weight off your shoulders, uh, because you, you start acting, not, not in a passive way, but you're just like, you know, the producer, you're just like, that's good smoking a cigar and deciding if it's good or if it's not. But at least, you know, if.

Brian Funk (03:48.073)

Hehehe

Brian Funk (04:01.298)

Right.

Alexkid (04:08.65)

if you don't second guess yourself trying to find out if that hi-hat is correct, is it too much, not enough? In the end, a good song is a good song, no one should really care about technically the little details of a hi-hat. But I think that this is a problem that a lot of producers have and a problem that I have is that every time that I do something myself, I'm just like, I don't know if it's good or not. Whereas if you listen to something

from that comes from somewhere else from someone else you can say hey I like it or not you know you're just like ah actually it's interesting but I would have just done that it's I realize that for me it's easier to somehow have a starting point to work with than then just have this blank page in front of you blank slate that you need to fill you know

Brian Funk (05:06.686)

Yeah, that's one of the hardest things, honestly, is when you don't have any idea. I love coming down here and seeing where the breeze takes me. You know, what am I going to make today? But I'm so much more productive when there's some sort of directive or something that I have that I need to work with, it becomes a problem to solve. Okay. I'm going to make this work.

Alexkid (05:29.374)

It's like a remix of someone you need to produce. It's much easier in the end than producing your own stuff.

Brian Funk (05:37.898)

Yeah, you've already got the palette of sounds. You've got a vibe, a direction. You've got, it just takes so many decisions off the plate before you even need to think about them.

Alexkid (05:40.273)

Yeah.

Alexkid (05:50.458)

Yeah, and I think that when you've got a starting point or elements that already belong to someone else, you start thinking strictly about the music, it's not about you. I think that when you... Especially if you have had some sort of success with a few tracks or something, you can't escape but thinking...

uh the of having the feeling that people expect that thing from you know or that oh am i gonna do something as good if i don't are they gonna judge me um so

Brian Funk (06:24.107)

Right.

Alexkid (06:31.322)

So it becomes more and more complicated, but when you have something, I don't know, like a vocal or something, a remix for someone else, at least this is how I feel myself. I feel a bit more free because the purpose is the song, the game is to make the best out of what you have. And also, I mean, because I can be quite competitive, I'm just like, I'm going to do better. You know.

Brian Funk (06:59.318)

I take this to the next level. Yeah. Well, that meant that's a good point because when you're say, putting together your high hat patterns, you don't have to sit there and think, is this the Alex kid high hat that everyone expects? You know, is this the vibe that they've come to know me by? Right.

Alexkid (07:01.382)

Oh well, at least I tried, yeah.

Alexkid (07:17.679)

Yeah, and the truth is that no one cares. This is the truth.

Brian Funk (07:24.182)

Well, yeah, in those early stages too, I often find myself overworking things that really have no business being worked yet, because I don't have anything to put it with. So I don't know what it's going to fit with yet. Yet, why am I getting this snare drum compressed perfectly? There's nothing else going on. It's kind of a fool's errand.

Alexkid (07:31.417)

Hmm.

Alexkid (07:46.146)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that with the years I've been also trying to produce faster and faster. I mean in some ways of course you produce faster because you've got more knowledge over the years and you acquire more knowledge, but also having a sense of urgency in your tracks.

is something that has a charm, you know? I think that this vulnerability somehow of having something that is not perfect is often what attracts us, at least, I mean at least me, when I hear something, you know? If something is perfect I'm like that's boring.

But if something has, I don't know, like an element that sticks out or something that is not totally perfect, a vocal that is a bit out of tune, I think that this is something that can be actually quite appealing. But it's very, very hard to implement this or to let those accidents happen yourself, unless you don't know how to fix them. But after 30 years...

I know how to fix them, but it's not necessarily a good thing. So yeah, it's always such a thin line. Being able to detach yourself from all the things that you know and be totally free to create. It's difficult. I mean, I think...

I think that knowledge is not necessarily something that helps you in the end. And, and this is the purpose of, uh, the sequencers that have been, or the devices that have been doing is just to really like be able to set a certain amount of, not rules, but yeah, almost like you decide like what you want and then you see what happens and you see if it's, if you like it or not.

Alexkid (10:02.879)

I know that for me it's been very liberating to use, to make my own devices and to use them.

Brian Funk (10:10.998)

Yeah, you want that person with the cigar you were talking about before, and I tell you. Because when you have your own mistakes, sometimes it's hard to hear them as like character and charm and personality. You hear mistake. I'm in the middle. Well, I'm in the end. Today's the last day of our, the January challenge to make a track every day, right? And a lot of the things, I mean, almost every day, I was pressed for time.

So a lot of the things that got through probably would have been fixed or edited. But as I listened back, those are some of the things I really like about some of those recordings. It's like, ah, it's like kind of cool. Like I'm glad I didn't play the drums to a click track because I like this kind of increase in tempo that is just my own excitement. I would have fixed that in a more, uh, you know,

Alexkid (10:50.942)

Hmm.

Alexkid (11:01.319)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (11:06.506)

with more time. If I had like a week, I would have been like, well, let's do that again. Let's put on the click and all of that. Edit yourself down. Edit yourself away. Yeah.

Alexkid (11:15.234)

said it. Yeah I've been totally guilty in many projects too of making things like too tight and eventually all these things that you had in the beginning gets lost and you need to go back you know in order to retrieve that original feeling. Yeah.

Alexkid (11:48.5)

I think it's important to make tracks music in a limited amount of time. I think that the sense of urgency or that feeling can be quite appealing.

Brian Funk (12:05.742)

Hmm. Right. You're forced to focus on the important stuff just because you don't have time to get into the really crazy details. Right. Yeah. Just move forward. Progress. For a lot of kinds of music, I could see, you know, if you're a singer, songwriter, a lot of these like imperfections.

Alexkid (12:13.766)

Yeah, or actually not even focus.

Alexkid (12:20.189)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (12:34.95)

Um, you know, not being so tight is sort of a feature sometimes, but in a lot of electronic music, it's really, you know, it's computer based, it's digital sequencers and things like that. How do you know where to draw that line? Because you kind of need a certain tightness, right? If you want people dancing and moving.

Alexkid (12:57.674)

That's a very interesting question because this is a subject that I've been debating for years and years and years and interestingly enough it's only in the past maybe 10 years that I've started to really figure out a few things when it comes to timings

Alexkid (13:25.798)

I've been a big user of the MPC 3000. I don't have one anymore. I've got an MPC 60. And I realized that every time that I was working with the MPC 3000, I was programming directly on it. Like, well, that's the groove, that's the groove. And as soon as I would sync it, I'd be like.

doesn't fall the same, doesn't fall exactly where it should fall, it's not the same feeling, doesn't feel the same and if you use, if you reprogram everything in the computer, it doesn't feel the same and for a long time I was trying to figure out what it was and what happens is that the brain has

sense of perception and that is quite interesting. We like non-linearities, we like things that are not perfect because perfection doesn't exist in nature. When we look at a bouquet of roses, it's an example that I use often, even if all roses are the same they're not, they're all slightly different.

if we were looking at a bouquet of roses and all were exactly the same we'd be like this is not really nice this is weird because it's not natural so i think that to feel safe we do like things that are not exactly the same but the same

So we like patterns because patterns make us feel safe. I think that the brains automatically try to understand patterns in everything and in music, makes us feel good, we know what to expect, but we also like to have something that changes a little bit. And the brain is really quick at understanding those little micro changes. So.

Alexkid (15:40.186)

A lot of people complain that music made with computers is not the same, it's too straight, etc. and it's true. What happens is that the timing of a computer is way tighter.

then the timing of an MPC, then the timing of a TR-909. Actually, I've been recording my 909 lately and checking exactly the positions of the timings and it's all over the place, but not in a way that you can be like, ah, this is off. It's just a little bit. And it's the same thing with the drummer. If a drummer was like super tight,

Brian Funk (16:13.624)

Really?

Brian Funk (16:22.978)

Yeah.

Alexkid (16:25.274)

we'd be like yeah okay boring but if a drummer has like his little feel he's like a little bit behind, corrects, comes back this humanization is something that we do enjoy so we tend to prefer drum machines over computers the problem is that drum machines do not sync very well with computers since we introduced audio

in the computer. Audio is in 8-bit norm, we used to be able to sync drum machines very well with an Atari because it didn't have audio to deal with. But when you use audio, MIDI is a second layer priority. So...

It first calculates the audio because that's what's most important, and then it calculates the MIDI. And then you've got again those micro errors in the timing of the clock that the computer sends that adds on top of the jitter of the drum machines. So it's like you double those timing issues. And that's when it starts sounding off.

Brian Funk (17:46.303)

I went too far.

Alexkid (17:48.55)

Yeah, it's just like a little bit too much for our ears. And when we hear a drum machine by itself, we're just like, it's tight, it's tighter, but it's not tight. But of course, it's nothing that we can pinpoint. I only know these because I've been going crazy, recording the things and checking the timings and trying to understand exactly what was happening. And yeah, are you familiar with the multi-clock?

Brian Funk (18:06.122)

Mm-hmm.

Alexkid (18:18.762)

It's a little device that I have here. It's like a little box where you have to kill one of your outputs from your sound card. And what happens is that in your DAW you have a plugin that actually generates a frequency. And you output this frequency to the multi-clock.

and from there it will generate a clean midi clock without jitter which will allow you to sync all your drum machines in a much tighter way keeping their own groove over the...

Alexkid (19:11.502)

I mean without having to use the sync from the computer that is actually somehow not very clean And this is a lifesaver. It's changed my studio and my music in

so many ways because I don't have to worry again of like pressing play and the start is not where it should be. Now it shifted a different way because the CPU started calculating something else. With this you know that we are going to press play because you are using a plugin is based on the audio clock.

and it will send a clean signal then to your drum machines and this is fantastic. Since then, since I have this, I have no issues with recording all my drum machines. It's quite fantastic, highly recommend it. Not cheap, but worth the money. Yeah.

Brian Funk (20:06.884)

Wow. Is it called the multi-clock? Hmm. So it's sending, is it like an audio blip or something that it sends to the, the plugin sends to this?

Alexkid (20:17.998)

Yeah, it sounds like a... Correct.

Brian Funk (20:21.474)

Kind of like how you sync things sometimes with them. Like the pocket operators have something like that.

Alexkid (20:28.75)

Yes, I just think it's a higher rate, something like this. But yeah, it's pretty much the same thing.

Brian Funk (20:31.062)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (20:36.414)

Now it's, you know, it's 2024. We've got a robot rolling around on Mars right now. Why is this something that's a problem? What's, it seems like something that should have been worked out by now, right?

Alexkid (20:52.986)

I mean MIDI is an 8-bit norm, so I think a lot of people don't consider syncing as a very important thing. It's a bit of a nerd thing. I mean you can sync just with the clock of the computer, but it's not exactly the same. I don't think it's really...

easy to avoid that issue just simply because of the way things are calculated in a computer. You needed to use actually an audio clock as a matter of fact I had the issue with my plugins like a while ago I had to talk with the guys from Cycling 74.

because they tell you like, I mean, I started looking at the way they were doing their clock and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna copy that. I'm gonna do the same thing. And then I realized that when I was opening two devices, the clocks were like all over the place and like creating issues with the notes off. So I would have like notes like hanging and of course there's nothing that you can do with this. And I...

Brian Funk (22:03.575)

Hmm.

Alexkid (22:12.646)

Discussed this with them, I sent them a session where I made like a little patch where I was sending one click and recording it in 16th, I think, or quarter notes, whatever.

and then and that was tight and when you I was opening a second device and I was putting one left one right I was doing a recording of those two you could see that the things were not falling together but like not at all like wild and I sent these to them and they're like ah that's a minor issue

Alexkid (22:59.522)

hanging notes is not a minor issue so I discussed this with Nick Bugayev who was developing the limer interface. I don't know if you're familiar with this, it's a fantastic tool. Yeah

Brian Funk (23:02.348)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (23:17.291)

Yeah, lemur, yeah.

Right, and the iPad app now you can still use, right? Because I don't think they make them anymore, right? The actual lemur. Yeah.

Alexkid (23:25.862)

They don't make them anymore. But even the iPad app, they're not on it. Yeah, but it was a fantastic tool. And Nick, who's a great developer, said, maybe you should try to use this object. I think this is based on the clock, on the audio clock. And I investigated the thing and yeah, he was right. It's based on the audio.

Brian Funk (23:31.254)

Yeah, it might be getting old by now, yeah.

Alexkid (23:53.318)

clock of the computer so I regenerated a whole clock to make sure that my sequences were tight and that they wouldn't have that crazy jitter that was generated through the way that cycling was doing it in the very first Max4Life devices. I think that now it's being fixed but I'm not trying I'm just like happy with what I have. It works so...

Yeah, timing is quite the subject.

Brian Funk (24:30.191)

Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable how much slight shifts can change everything.

Alexkid (24:39.066)

Yes, actually, absolutely. It's funny because like a lot of producers don't shift their sounds. And I think that this is something that is so effective in production. A lot of them you swing, fair enough, but the shifting is essential.

again one of the things that you know people say about the mpc's oh yeah the groove the mpc yeah it has a groove but one of the real things of an mpc is that you cannot edit visually so when you edit a sound you're tapping on your pad and you're just like changing you know with a cursor same thing with an sp12 or an sp1200 you just like have the cursor and you're just like

shit i killed my transient so you go a little bit back okay i've got my transient and what people don't necessarily think is that you might have added like a few milliseconds before your sound therefore when you're going to trigger your sound it's going to be a little bit laid back and this is something that can be totally replicated by simply shifting

you mentioned, but you need to do it, or you need to at least know what's going on in an NPC to think about it.

Brian Funk (26:07.178)

Right. Yeah, because we can now on the computer have all our transients line right up on the grid where they're all hitting at the same time. And then they kind of get in each other's way. But if you move the snare a little bit after that hi hat or vice versa and just whatever other instruments as well, then at least those hits are.

Alexkid (26:18.767)

Yeah.

Alexkid (26:29.266)

They don't sum anymore.

Brian Funk (26:31.314)

Yeah, I mean, playing in a band, like, you can almost never hit at the same time. It's like, it just doesn't happen, but that allows you to differentiate things a bit. Just here, like, oh yeah, those three things just hit at the same time, but it was a little bit off.

Alexkid (26:35.65)

No. No, no.

Alexkid (26:41.466)

Yeah, absolutely.

Alexkid (26:45.986)

I think there's a new plugin that's been released that actually puts things off. So you feed, you put it on different channels and it moves everything a little bit in your MIDI, which I think is actually quite a fantastic idea.

Brian Funk (26:53.778)

Isn't that funny?

Brian Funk (26:58.647)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (27:04.77)

Hmm. It's, yeah, I haven't heard of that. But it is interesting that more of the plugins I'm buying are the ones that are taking away the perfection of the computer or ruining things and downsampling, all these things.

Alexkid (27:06.494)

It depends how it's done, I'm curious, I would love to test it.

Alexkid (27:21.518)

Yeah, it's funny because yeah, you're absolutely right. I think that there was some sort of golden era at some point where things sounded good, or our ears have become accustomed to a certain range of frequencies or timings. But it's not that.

they had this intent of doing it like this necessarily. It's just like it's what they had and this is how they were recording. And now that we can do things like super perfect and tight, we're trying to somehow replicate those things which take a lot of effort in the end. We have to work almost in post-production mode saying, oh yeah, now I need to move things or fix things.

Brian Funk (28:16.065)

Yeah.

Alexkid (28:18.182)

where before you would just learn, I don't know, your skillset as a musician or, you know. It's weird.

Brian Funk (28:24.727)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (28:29.694)

Yeah, well, it's like you said, even the best drummer is not playing exactly on the grid, like a drum machine or really even like MIDI would on the computer. But now I find myself trying to inject that in. Like live, Ableton Live now has some humanization features and some probability features that for me are just, I love it because it's...

All my life playing with drummers, I always think of drummers, I mean, God bless them, but they don't always do what you want them to do. They have all these drums and they just got to hit them and they got to throw these extra things in there. Now I'm allowed to program the MIDI and pick the notes that, all right, you need your extra notes, you can put a couple here and here, but only 25% of the time. And then...

Alexkid (29:22.482)

Hmm

Brian Funk (29:24.19)

it becomes like, okay, now it sounds like somebody that's playing and they just want to do it. They just did that little thing and the timing was not exactly perfect. So it's a little different every time they do it.

Alexkid (29:39.042)

yeah and the strength it's um

It's hard to find good solutions when it comes to writing beats in a way that feels very natural. I mean there are solutions but I find them usually pretty complex to work with and the older I get the more I want simple things.

Brian Funk (30:10.605)

Right.

Alexkid (30:12.418)

I have the S2400 from Island Instruments that I absolutely love. I think it's a great machine. It sounds really fantastic. You can do like a lot of things. It's a great tool. It's...

Brian Funk (30:23.102)

What is that? I don't know that. S2400?

Alexkid (30:28.962)

It's inspired from the SP1200, so it's got a little bit like the same logic in the way it works, but it's just like a very, very powerful SP1200 with lots of features that the SP1200 doesn't have. It's got better pads, it's got a lot of things.

Brian Funk (30:32.6)

Mm-hmm.

Alexkid (30:50.49)

doesn't have the same transients as the SP1200 that are hard to replicate actually the SP12 is a bit better even, has like this kind of like really like witty sound when you sample something but the thing is that because it's got all these features I find it a little bit difficult for me to have all this muscle memory

that you need to acquire to be really comfortable with instruments. Where an MPC, I just can go blindly and you can do three things with it, but you do them and it sounds right. I think the MPC, the originals, the 1600 or 3000 really have that.

Brian Funk (31:23.344)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (31:35.651)

Hmm.

Alexkid (31:46.134)

thing that is almost you know like you guys found just like the right thing it's just right it's just it's not too much it's not too little it's just perfect i love them actually yeah i'm trying to find an mpc 3000 again because i miss it

Brian Funk (31:53.038)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian Funk (31:59.307)

Right.

Brian Funk (32:07.066)

It is pretty cool how some things just, whether it was from limitations of technology or just good planning or good luck, they just kind of nail what needs to be done. I mean, there's a lot of things like that when you think about, I mean, think about like guitars, like a Stratocaster or like a Minimoog, you know, like those designs have just really haven't changed that much because they're just...

Alexkid (32:28.806)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (32:36.664)

They're spot on.

Alexkid (32:38.09)

to just amazing like a 303.

Brian Funk (32:40.69)

Yeah. Which 303 is a funny case because it was sort of not really working for what they intended it for to be a bass line for like guitar players and stuff. Yeah. I think for like.

Alexkid (32:53.05)

for double bass right? or something like that it was supposed to emulate

Brian Funk (32:57.838)

of rock bands, I think you were gonna use that with your drum machine and feel like you were in a rock band, but then everyone realized it had that really cool acid bass line, I guess. Started a whole genre of music. How cool must that have you had any of that happen to you or people use some of your devices in weird ways and you're just like, oh, did not expect that.

Alexkid (33:19.71)

Yeah, actually quite a few times as a matter of fact. Instant house actually a lot of people were using it not with drums Like putting a synth behind and just changing patterns It's just like, okay That's it probably sounds off, right? I know, but I love what it does. Okay interesting

Brian Funk (33:31.723)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (33:41.634)

Is that like four notes? I forget that it plays. It's an house.

Alexkid (33:47.295)

I should... I think there's ghost notes that are assigned to other pads so...

Brian Funk (33:50.466)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (33:54.37)

but there's like four MIDI notes it puts out maybe or something like that.

Alexkid (33:58.262)

Yeah, so it could be one, two, three, four, five, six, up to eight, but I don't know, I haven't opened it in a while.

Brian Funk (34:10.294)

Yeah, but that's plenty for a melody or a bassline or, you know.

Alexkid (34:14.487)

Yeah, if the notes are assigned properly, yeah. But you know, it's often not the case. Have you played around with Live from XLN Audio?

Brian Funk (34:17.782)

Yeah, right.

Brian Funk (34:32.21)

Life, yeah, that new one, yes. I love it. It's really weird and fun and kind of, like you said, quick. So that's the one where you can record things on your phone. You just drop a sample in and it automatically slices it into patterns. And you can.

Alexkid (34:33.102)

Yeah.

Alexkid (34:42.459)

interesting huh?

Alexkid (34:53.118)

Exactly. I'm thinking of this because people were using the instant house in weird ways and triggering random sounds with it and life has a bit that thing where you're just like ah I'm just like putting sounds and hey let's put this pattern on it but

Brian Funk (35:04.878)

All right, that makes sense, yeah.

Alexkid (35:15.814)

they have nailed it, you get really interesting results really quick I don't know if it detects the type of transients and then says ok this could be compared to a kick or if I pitch it down it could be a kick I don't know how they do it but it's quite impressive

Brian Funk (35:33.528)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (35:37.218)

Well, in doing these daily jams, I turned to that plugin a few times just because it was going to give me something interesting in a starting place. And then it was like, all right, well now I'll play some chords over it and then I'll do that. And then you get this like kind of weird thing. I would never make that sound. You know, it would never come out like that anyway. And if I did, it would take me probably hours to do all that slicing and chopping.

Alexkid (35:46.192)

Mm.

Alexkid (36:01.518)

Yeah, I've been recording my son's little toys, you know, and little percussions, like little wooden toys and little wooden percussions and the result sounds, I mean, it's quite impressive. Sometimes you come up with things that sound like Timbaland. It's just like, wow.

Brian Funk (36:08.894)

Yeah, that's perfect.

Brian Funk (36:24.01)

Yeah. All right.

Alexkid (36:26.551)

that little pandere pitch down sounds like PONK! sounds really good! I just want to put a kick drum and a hi-hat and that's it!

Brian Funk (36:31.946)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (36:36.254)

Right. I think I put a conversation I recorded. Just had my phone around people talking. You couldn't even really tell what they're saying, but it just took those voices and turned them into different things and gave a cool rhythm. I was like, all right, let's keep going.

Alexkid (36:50.886)

This is the kind of things that I would really like to have more and more in... I mean for people to work with, you know, like plugins that are a bit more creative, not just like another compressor or another delay, as much as of course it's always great to have a great compressor. I don't know, creative tools are always more exciting to me I think.

Brian Funk (37:16.754)

Yeah. Well, that's the type of tool life would be the type of thing where you play with it. I think makes you move forward like, oh, cool. Whereas a compressor is the kind of thing that sort of pulls you back and okay, let's dial in the threshold just right. And you know, you kind of, it's a different stage of the process, I guess. Right.

Alexkid (37:38.294)

yeah that's true that's true i don't know if it's an age thing but eventually yeah i think that's somehow a bit more exciting to me at the moment maybe just i mean i'm always getting excited with a compressor because that's who i am but um yeah i don't know there's really interesting things coming up lately

Brian Funk (37:50.627)

Yeah.

Alexkid (38:05.487)

Have you tried anything exciting lately?

Brian Funk (38:10.59)

Um, yeah, I feel like I have. Um, so I've been using this one called DigiTales, which it's, uh, I think aberrant DSP is the company DigiTales it's called, but it's, um, you know, like the opposite of what you would think we'd want. It degrades your audio to sound like old MP3s or internet transmissions or skipping CDs.

Alexkid (38:36.61)

I think I've read about that one, yeah. The result is good?

Brian Funk (38:38.914)

It's fantastic. I mean, yeah, you know, like it's, it's fun interface. It looks like an old, uh, 90s, you know, Macintosh window and it's got like a little cat on it.

Alexkid (38:51.242)

Ah yes, yes I've seen it, I've seen it, I've seen it. Yeah I was curious about that one.

Brian Funk (38:58.082)

especially for moments in a track, right? If I'm gonna have a part where maybe everything drops out and it's just the keys, maybe I'll sprinkle this on there and it'll just be a little more interesting and have a little, kind of like, well, what's going on with that sound? And then you might take it off after that. But yeah, it's like, I really haven't gone in there and actually turned many of the knobs.

Alexkid (39:07.043)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (39:25.878)

It's just kind of like, not deliberately, it's just kind of like, oh, I'm just gonna move this one. There's a part where you can kind of draw a picture. You just, it's play, you know? And that's the stuff I'm really getting into myself. It's like life is like that. It's something you play with. And it takes you in that kind of just, like you've even said earlier, where I don't know, let's see what this thing gives me. Let's see what it, now I'm the guy with the cigar. You're like, okay, that's good, that's bad.

Alexkid (39:38.831)

Yeah, let's play.

Brian Funk (39:55.406)

That's keep that.

Alexkid (39:59.526)

I've been doing sound design for Native Instruments for machine expansions for a few years now and I absolutely love doing that. It's honestly, it's a bit like my dream job because I get to make tracks, experiment with things, with different genres.

without necessarily having to finish the tracks. So I make them and it's basically a loop and I'm like, yeah, I don't have to structure the song. That's fantastic. But yeah, and it's been quite fun to do because I get to...

Brian Funk (40:29.57)

Gotcha.

Brian Funk (40:34.506)

Yeah, give it to other people.

Alexkid (40:49.226)

experiment a lot with like hey I'm gonna run this through this, hey what about I'm putting this through this old boss mixer and then I'm going through the tape echo and I'm just recording the output and I'm gonna resync every and I'm gonna sample actually just from the wet output through the tape that has the preamp that distorts a little bit and oh it's noisy and I don't know I think that those processes are actually quite um quite exciting I think that

Brian Funk (41:05.653)

Hmm.

Alexkid (41:18.666)

sadly more and more we're asked to provide some sort of result. I mean not everyone thank god, but like a lot of people you know when they're producing, when they're starting to produce now, they use splice or things like these that come with things that are already like really formatted and even I mean even people using machine they have already sounds that are like already you know ready for use.

Alexkid (41:49.106)

but I think that there's such a beauty in just trying to experiment and play, as you mentioned, and just like, oh I'm just gonna root things in a weird way, you know, and see what comes out. I used to have a modular and I used to experiment a lot with these, but at some point I felt it was dangerous for me.

Brian Funk (42:17.622)

Yeah, that's why I don't have one. I know it'll happen on my bank account.

Alexkid (42:23.086)

Yeah and I sold it in one go. I'm like okay out I went cold turkey on it so...

Brian Funk (42:28.394)

Right. Wow. I'm sure you can have a lot of fun with that, but.

Alexkid (42:32.035)

Yeah, I came back.

Alexkid (42:35.922)

Yeah, yeah, but it's a never-ending story, this is a problem. And at least with samples it's a bit more finite, you know, you're just like, okay, those are my sounds, I'm gonna make music, this is what I have, and now again more and more I try to have just like machines that sound the way I want and play with that.

Brian Funk (42:41.13)

Yeah, right.

Brian Funk (42:47.447)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (43:04.234)

Hmm. That sounds like a lot of fun, building those expansion packs. So those are kind of like almost like sample packs, I guess, right? But they're a little bit more performative on the machine.

Alexkid (43:18.442)

Yeah, it's a bit like construction kits but not based on loops. It's really... you have all the one shots. So the bass... you barely have loops in the expansion. At least I try not to have loops because...

Brian Funk (43:24.109)

Right.

Brian Funk (43:33.29)

Hmm.

Alexkid (43:42.158)

I mean, unless there's something that you cannot program because it's a certain way. But I try not to have loops because I want to give as much freedom as possible for people to be able to use them in their own way, but also use them in such a way within the kit, because it's always provided with a song per kit. That is just like, ah, okay. How was that done? You know?

Alexkid (44:14.541)

It's an interesting game because you need to try to keep as much flexibility as you can.

Alexkid (44:25.138)

put things in context and at the same time each sound by itself needs to be fun to play with. You know, it's not just like, oh yeah, kick drum, that does the kick in a very normal and simplistic way. No, you know, I always try to have something that when you listen to the sounds by themselves, you're just like, ah, okay, that's something I could work with. Or that gives me an idea.

I don't know, do sounds inspire you sometimes? Do you just like hear a snare and you start working from there or?

Brian Funk (45:00.255)

And a lot of times, I do lots of...

Ableton Live Packs that are sample-based instruments a lot of times. And it's a lot of that playing. I'll run the sounds through the VCR and record them on there and then put some effects on them. The last one I worked on, I did like three generations of going to the VCR, you know, and effects on it halfway through, you know, after. And it was so fun. Like, I don't know what they're going to sound like, you know, and it's a discovery thing. And then you put them in a sampler.

Alexkid (45:08.379)

Mm-hmm.

Alexkid (45:19.769)

Oh.

Brian Funk (45:34.036)

Sometimes I know I'm on a good road when I get interrupted in my instrument building and I'm like making music or I've been playing this note for 45 minutes and I'm like wow. You know? Like it's um, there it is, listen to this sound. That's a lot of fun. And a lot of times...

Alexkid (45:42.916)

music.

Alexkid (45:49.394)

That's the note.

Brian Funk (45:58.346)

I always try to, if I'm making playing with sounds and I get something that inspires me, then I go with it. I think it's a lot easier to throw things together and make weird sounds than it is to feel like I have an idea for a song. So that's precious. The other stuff is kind of, I'm experimenting, just having fun seeing what happens.

Alexkid (46:03.334)

Mm-hmm.

Alexkid (46:17.242)

Yes, yes, yes.

Brian Funk (46:25.242)

when that spark hits, it's like, ooh. And yeah, a lot of times it's a sound. It's just, maybe it makes me feel nostalgic or it gives me some sort of image of a world that I can start creating.

Alexkid (46:39.49)

Yeah, it's actually something that I've been doing for myself when I have no inspiration. I start doing things that are absolutely unrelated to music making. I mean, I do the boring part, let's say I'm going to start like listening to sounds just to tag the ones that I like or...

start editing sounds that I've recorded from something or from I don't know some field recording and I always end up doing something. I always find inspiration back when I actually do something that is unrelated to trying to find inspiration. It's funny how it comes.

Brian Funk (47:31.062)

Isn't that funny? Yeah You have to show up for it, but it's like if you hunt too hard It just slips away cat mouse

Alexkid (47:37.167)

Yeah.

Alexkid (47:42.15)

Yeah, I think... Yeah, it's pretty much like that, yeah.

Brian Funk (47:47.642)

If you want it too bad, it gets away. That's cool. That's a great way to work though, because you're not going to always be. Yes, I have an idea. Let's do it. And doing those types of activities are things you got to do. And you don't want to get caught up in those when you actually do have the idea. You don't want to start tagging sounds when you're really psyched about a song.

Alexkid (48:08.039)

Yeah.

Alexkid (48:12.359)

No, this is also an advice that I've been trying to give to students that I've been teaching. It's

either when you don't have the inspiration, you just start working with one machine. You just like start diving into one thing, just like try to learn the functions that you don't know. There's always like a function that is going to surprise you and you're going to be like, oh, actually, maybe this gives me an idea. And the other thing is that I try to tell them to have their sounds ready. Don't start scrolling through sounds. Don't.

do it if you really don't have any sort of inspiration, but if you're like halfway through a track and you're just trying to find a snare.

Alexkid (49:03.959)

that's probably gonna kill your vibe.

Brian Funk (49:06.79)

Yeah, absolutely. That's not a creative act, right? You're just hunting for something. And then you have 40,000 snares. So you're going to hear one that's probably perfectly fine, but maybe the next one's better. An hour later, you don't even like your song anymore.

Alexkid (49:21.653)

So.

Alexkid (49:28.302)

Yeah and also this thing that I've noticed like I do, I don't do it so much anymore but I used to mix uh tracks for people and I would receive sessions with like literally 14 hi-hats layered just like whoa

do you realize what you're doing? It's so risky. I mean, I understand that this one will bring the transient and this one blah but in the end you end up with like a summing of frequencies that just like start creating these scales but I do understand the process of people when they do that if they're unhappy with their hi-hats you know they're just like oh maybe if I add a little bit more of this oh when I layer this sounds a bit better yeah okay oh but maybe I need to bring

I think that it's very important to really question what is the problem with the track. It's probably not going to be solved by putting 14 hi-hats together, but it's very difficult to accept that because it's true that when you start layering things, you always find something that sounds a little bit better, you know? But the problem is that you end up, first of all...

you're going to need to make sure that you're staging everything properly because else you're going to start clipping everywhere or creating comp filtering or having all these issues that can be avoided if you just put one sound but just the right one.

Alexkid (51:07.727)

It's such a tricky thing, I feel creativity and even though it's been 30 years I'm still struggling so much with... I mean I know I can make music and I can make house music in a blink and it's probably going to be good but I'm going to be like... I don't know.

I don't know if it's good. Is it really bringing something to, is this interesting for the community? Am I bringing any, is this, of course, I mean, it's not like we should expect every time to make like a fantastic track, but you know, I always tend to find my songs boring all the time. And I believe that a lot of people have that same feeling when they make music, so they always try to.

What I try to do is that when I'm bored with something, I just let it there and I start something else. Instead of trying to finish and trying to force myself, I just do something else. Eventually I listen and I'm like, ah, that was good or that was shit. Out. I think it's important also to be non-emotional with your tracks. Do you finish everything that you do yourself or how do you do?

Brian Funk (52:22.722)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (52:27.978)

everything I ever do I finish. No way, no way. No, that's the hardest part. That's the part we get the least practice with. And not everything is worth finishing too, I think. I think it's a good habit to strive for.

Alexkid (52:30.272)

Really?

Brian Funk (52:49.13)

You know, just so you go through the process and sometimes you get lucky, you surprise yourself and things turn out a lot better than they seemed like they were going to. Um, it's, I think it's a bad habit to get into not finishing anything, but there is something to be said to knowing when to move on. And if it becomes too much work too, that's, that's a sign, you know? Yeah.

Alexkid (52:51.887)

Yeah.

Alexkid (52:57.842)

Hmm.

Alexkid (53:02.866)

That's all.

Alexkid (53:08.327)

Yeah.

Alexkid (53:14.938)

I let them sit for that. I think that sometimes we're just like way too into it to be able to take a step back and really have a vision on things. Very often I've opened tracks that I thought were absolute shit. And I'm listening again and I'm like, ah, actually it was not that bad, but that thing was shit. I just need to change that. Yeah.

Brian Funk (53:30.638)

Thanks for watching!

Brian Funk (53:40.19)

Right, just take it out. Yeah. That's often the problem for me, honestly, is I should just take that sound out. Sometimes the first sound I put down is the thing where the idea came from. But you take it out and then there's room, there's air, I can breathe.

Alexkid (53:52.679)

Interesting interesting

Brian Funk (54:01.086)

I love what you said about being non-emotional. It's so true. I mean, I get this doing a jam every day. You just don't get emotional because you got tomorrow and you got to finish something for today. It's a great exercise for that to realize that it doesn't matter, nothing's precious. And it's a...

Alexkid (54:20.334)

I've never donated the gem you're...

Brian Funk (54:23.934)

You know, it's, I'm really glad it's over after today. I am because I do feel like, um, other things have kind of been sacrificed a bit sleep, you know, things like that. But it is really good to first of all, show you that you can do it and to show you that's a lot of times when you don't feel like it, if you do it anyway, you still can and

Alexkid (54:27.969)

Hehehehe

Alexkid (54:45.266)

Mm-hmm.

Alexkid (54:50.502)

You still can.

Brian Funk (54:53.394)

A lot of times you start getting inspired minutes into it. It just takes a little spark.

Alexkid (54:59.27)

Yeah, and I'm sure you always end up learning stuff and I think this is the best thing, is to learn new things. You're just like, oh my God, I didn't know I could do that or I didn't know this trick or I didn't think of doing things this way. That's quite interesting.

Brian Funk (55:03.34)

Oh yeah.

Brian Funk (55:16.554)

Yeah, I mean if I spent the whole month on one song, it'd become too important, you know? And then I probably wouldn't take any risks with it.

probably wouldn't try anything interesting. I'd just be safe and I'd be overanalyzing it. But when I know I'm going to do one tomorrow and another the next day, let's try something weird. Let's, let's just run this whole thing through some weird effect or let's do something I know I'm not supposed to do and just see what happens. Try a new tool or toy.

Alexkid (55:47.682)

Yeah, it's funny because I realized that since I've been doing my plugins, I almost always, always use one of my sequences now. It's almost like, oh, I, this is not what defines me, but it's something that I know I'm going to find some sort of interest and pleasure, especially with the...

Brian Funk (56:02.167)

That's cool.

Alexkid (56:16.166)

The last one, the one that's VST, have you tried second?

Brian Funk (56:20.654)

Let's see, no, I haven't gotten to try it yet. No. It's beautiful looking too. It's got a lot in there, but also really easy to see what's going on.

Alexkid (56:23.97)

It's basically a best of all of them.

Yes.

Alexkid (56:33.89)

Yeah, this is the thing. I mean, when I second, yeah, I call it second.

Brian Funk (56:37.838)

Is that how you say it? Second? Okay. I was saying sequent. Second.

Alexkid (56:43.838)

There's no rule. The idea behind was to, first of all, take it out a little bit of the...

you know, a problem that, you know, if you want to use Max for Live, you need to have Ableton Live Suite or the Max for Live extension, et cetera. So you really reduce like the amount of people that you can reach. A lot of people are saying, oh, do you have this for Logic? Do you have this for, you know, for FL? I was going to say Fruity Loops. That's too old school.

I felt you have to know and I'm like every time like I know yeah I'm thinking about it but I mean I know how to use Max but I don't know how to code with C++ and Jus. So in order to be able to do this I had to find someone and I found Tadashi Suginomori from a Troy plugins who was doing things that were very similar to the ideas that I was doing with Max.

but so we discussed, we did it together and now I have this software that has all the things that I somehow want, most of them, you know, I mean, there's still room for improvement. But as you say, in a very simple...

way with a very simple interface. I think that this is really something that I worked on was to just like decide on which features and how they should be appearing. I hate opening a plugin and seeing something that is like...

Alexkid (58:34.414)

and that you're just like, oh shit, I'm going to have to open the manual to understand what everything does. I think that, again, this is a vibe killer when it comes to making music. I want to be able to open a plugin and to be like, oh, what does that do? Oh, wow. That gives me an idea of what happens, you know? I think that there's a fun part in discovering your plugins or your software. If it's too threatening.

you know, too not offensive but you know too much, too busy, I think you're a little bit put back by these vibes. So for me it was very important to have a very simple interface and get results quick. So I worked with Resonant Design, who are a UX UI company here in Berlin, that do beautiful designs for plugins.

and it was a fantastic experience. So it's weird because for the first time I worked with my ideas and based on my Max for Live devices but I didn't do any of the code. It was more like no it needs to be like this okay let me try does it work like this and the very also a very funny thing is that Tadashi

Brian Funk (59:44.834)

Hmm.

Alexkid (59:57.594)

says this is I'm not sure about that says that he doesn't speak English so we use translators to discuss at least he uses translator side and when we were not exactly understanding each other when it came to some functionalities or specificities of the software

we were actually talking through Max for life matches. So I would like do the code, it's just like, no, it needs to react like this. So when you do this, the output is this. And then he would look in black, ah, yeah, okay, got you. And he would just do it. So that was quite funny. And now I'm happy because I've got like this tool that I can use that I'm having lots of fun with and it's actually really...

Brian Funk (01:00:27.934)

No way.

Brian Funk (01:00:40.6)

Mm-hmm.

Alexkid (01:00:54.058)

really fulfilling. It's a great sensation, it's a great feeling to be able to work with your own tools and you know and do something like this and so many people have been using it and telling me like oh my god thank you so much it's such a cool thing to work with. That it's funnily it's as gratifying as making music and someone telling you that they like your music.

Brian Funk (01:01:12.119)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:01:21.134)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can understand that. Well, you have a hand now in so many other people's work. I mean, I'm sure how much gratitude do you have, you know, to like Roger Lynn for the NPC? Right. Like for all these like people that came up with these amazing designs that we still use.

Alexkid (01:01:22.658)

If not more.

Alexkid (01:01:44.446)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:01:47.582)

to know that like you're fitting into someone's workflow. And I mean, yeah, anytime you, yeah, right? I bet it is.

Alexkid (01:01:53.458)

This is weird.

Alexkid (01:01:58.33)

Well, you should know with your sample banks.

Brian Funk (01:02:02.546)

I love it when people say I made this song with, and I'm listening and a lot of times I can't even tell. Sometimes I'm like, oh yeah, I hear it. But yeah, it's like, wow. So like that sound came from that noodling I was doing here, running this through this, whatever I did.

It's fun to know that the kind of family tree of this track has some roots and stuff I've done. And you've got that with this. A lot of your devices really, I mean, they're just, that's part of it. You know, first hand, that sometimes it's the interface or the design that helps you get to the idea.

Alexkid (01:02:49.726)

True.

Brian Funk (01:02:50.53)

start with it. It's just the way you suggest, there's a certain suggestion of how to work.

Alexkid (01:02:56.494)

Yeah, I personally don't like to have tabs or, you know, different menus that you need to open windows and stuff like this. I try as much as possible to keep everything on one page and as much as possible not busy. I've had to make choices often.

uh based on my own taste of what would sound better when it came to a certain function. Actually just before connecting with you I received an email of a guy who said ah I really wish you would have done like 32 steps in your sequencer and it was a very conscious choice not to make 32 steps.

Because especially when you work with polyrhythms and you start like randomizing, if you've got loops that start shifting but you've got one loop of 32 steps, you will not get that sense again of pattern that we were discussing before, you know? The brain is quick on hearing the patterns but past a certain point it becomes a bit too random.

Brian Funk (01:04:14.222)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:04:23.915)

Right.

Alexkid (01:04:25.126)

So the less elements you have, the more you increase the probability of having the brain understanding the pattern and therefore the musicality of it. So yeah you need to make these very conscious choices and that somehow end up having an effect on people's music.

It's really weird.

Brian Funk (01:04:57.906)

I get that when I'm mapping macro controls on a device. You only have so many, you got eight, now you have 16. And you gotta sometimes decide like...

Maybe I won't put the decay of the ADSR on this one. Or maybe this one needs that. Or maybe I'm gonna put these two together on one knob and you gotta kind of feel it and play with it. And yeah, like if you're doing something, even 16 steps and you got one thing that's 16 steps and another parameter that's seven and another that's like 11, it's gonna be like a half an hour before that thing ever repeats anyway. But

Alexkid (01:05:14.482)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:05:23.27)

Hmm

Brian Funk (01:05:39.89)

If it's 32, that's a long time before you even realize it's coming around again.

Alexkid (01:05:45.274)

Yeah, plus you don't really perceive the... you don't really perceive... it would become too random. Actually, one advice I always give when it comes to using my sequencers is like work under eight steps.

Brian Funk (01:05:52.823)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:06:03.142)

you get much better results, much faster. Maybe not for the rhythm, but working on the right steps is fantastic.

Brian Funk (01:06:15.57)

Yeah, there you go. There's a limitation that you got to get creative within.

Alexkid (01:06:21.547)

Do you work a lot with polyrhythms yourself?

Brian Funk (01:06:24.902)

I like to do things where my loops are uneven or even maybe it might not even be that. It might just be like this is a three bar loop. It might be a pattern that's three bars and this one's four and that one's eight. You can get away with that a lot with like percussive elements or simpler melodies. Yeah.

Alexkid (01:06:36.714)

Hmm.

Alexkid (01:06:46.874)

Yeah, so they slowly shift and...

Brian Funk (01:06:51.51)

That kind of stuff I find adds a lot of life to whatever I'm doing. If it has just, it doesn't, because if you were to stretch them all out on the timeline, it's a long time before that you get the full repeat and you can get a lot of life out of smaller patterns.

Alexkid (01:07:11.76)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:07:17.106)

I'm gonna send you a second. I think you're gonna have lots of fun with it.

Brian Funk (01:07:19.79)

Oh, thanks. Yeah, it's gorgeous. I could see how if you had 32 steps too, it would be just probably everything that wouldn't fit on the whole screen and you'd have page two. Even my controllers that I use for live performance, I use a Push, a Launchpad and an APC 40, all of which have tons of pads.

Alexkid (01:07:31.084)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:07:40.296)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:07:48.898)

that you can use and I could on push do my session view, play my notes and do sequences, go to different instruments but I don't want to have all that flipping through so I just push is just for playing instruments and Launchpad will launch samples or turn effects on and off and APC 40 is for clips.

Alexkid (01:08:04.061)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:08:08.282)

launch.

Alexkid (01:08:14.43)

Interesting.

Brian Funk (01:08:16.262)

And that way I'm not flipping through. First of all, if I have to flip through, I'm going to make a mistake somewhere, right? In the heat of the moment. But it's just nice to know that this is what it is. I don't have to check if I'm on the right page. I don't have to flip back and forth. Um, yeah, it's, I like, I like things to be kind of dedicated to their job.

Alexkid (01:08:41.934)

Yeah, I think it brings some sort... I mean it's much easier for the muscle memory in the end. You just know that this does that, this does that, this does that, this is why I like with MPC and this is why I try to have the plugins simple. I get lost and I think that if I was playing live and at some point I start like doubting myself I would probably mess up.

if I had to switch panels. I mean I've got a push 2 and I think it's a great tool but I'm not sure how much I would use it live to play things and then switch and go to the clips and then to... I would probably have something that does the rhythm and I would probably use push to just change clips.

Brian Funk (01:09:38.786)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's kind of what I like. I could have different banks of controls on the knobs on the APC-40. I think you get three banks of those. And what would inevitably happen is I'd start turning the knob that I think is going to be like a filter or something, and it's changing the pitch. And I'll be, oh, no, and I switch the bank, forgetting to turn that knob back to where it was, and then do the filter. And then.

turn something on and be like, why does that not sound right? Realize, oh, on a different page I turned the knob by accident.

Alexkid (01:10:14.222)

Is there a way to just reset to...

Alexkid (01:10:19.799)

initial status.

Brian Funk (01:10:22.638)

I could probably figure out a way to do that.

Alexkid (01:10:26.398)

that's something that I used to love with the limer on the iPad is that you had like those sort of behaviors you know so I would have like some sort of sliders and I could have like many that I could go like in multi-touch with all the fingers you know so create like crazy effect like high pass and then increase the reverb and all that but

Brian Funk (01:10:30.722)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:10:37.271)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:10:47.167)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:10:50.792)

Right.

Alexkid (01:10:53.65)

I would be able to take the fingers off and it would just go back to zero. And that was actually really helpful. I think the squid from Pioneer, from Torise, has something similar. But I don't know what other interfaces do this. I was wondering if...

Brian Funk (01:10:59.254)

kind of bounce back, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:11:12.782)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:11:20.506)

Um, I know there's a Max for Live. I forget exactly what it's called now. It's been a long time, but you could have states basically, you'd snapshots of your set and then you can recall the snapshot.

Alexkid (01:11:32.354)

Okay. Ah, wasn't that the one from Richard Houghton?

Brian Funk (01:11:40.002)

Yeah, I think so, yeah. Maybe it was a capture?

Alexkid (01:11:41.97)

capture.

I think it was Capture. That was great! Yeah, Capture with a K. Sounds more Berlin.

Brian Funk (01:11:48.158)

With a K, yeah. Yeah, that's what it was. And I think even now, when Live 12 comes out, they've got that performance pack that I think has something along those lines too.

Alexkid (01:12:05.574)

Yeah, have you tried it? You have tried it, yeah, you have it. Like 12, no?

Brian Funk (01:12:10.123)

Yeah, yeah, Live 12. I like it a lot. There's a lot of cool features and there's a lot of stuff that is very like playful. Some of the MIDI generators and stuff. I'm having trouble getting used to the browser. That is... You know, I don't know. I haven't completely committed to all the

Alexkid (01:12:20.06)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:12:35.618)

tags that they have because it's still early. I don't know if they're going to change things in the final release. So I haven't committed. So maybe I'll like it better when I really buy in, but I do miss certain things about the way it was. Some of the folder structure they had was just convenient and got used to it.

Alexkid (01:12:40.882)

Hmm

Alexkid (01:12:46.246)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:12:53.639)

change that much.

Brian Funk (01:12:57.032)

It is a pretty big shift in the browser.

Brian Funk (01:13:02.598)

There's a lot I like about it, but I do miss just they had folders that were just nice and neat. And now sometimes like you click on your plugins, for instance, and it's just every plugin you have all listed. And then you can click on the manufacturer and the tags to then just see them or click on just VSTs or audio units. But some of the things just kind of dump everything at you at once. And I don't really know when I would want that.

Alexkid (01:13:14.896)

Okay.

Brian Funk (01:13:32.098)

I'll have to get into the tagging a little more. I was just kinda hoping.

Alexkid (01:13:36.202)

so there's a bit more of a learning curve than the previous one when it comes to the

Brian Funk (01:13:42.258)

Yeah, you got the browser is a little bit of learning. It's definitely more powerful. So you can have more customization. You can make your own tags and stuff. But you know how it is, you get used to the way something works and then you just kind of want it to stay that way.

Alexkid (01:13:59.898)

It's funny because I'm talking about browser. My daughter has started production. So she's 16 and she started getting into her, you know, I'm not, can we make music and blah, yeah, sure. And then she comes and she's like,

Brian Funk (01:14:11.798)

Cool.

Yeah, just like dad.

Alexkid (01:14:26.962)

Have you heard about FL Studio? I'm like, yes, I have. And that's what all the kids are using at the moment. Yeah, all my friends are using that. Do you think we could try? And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna check that. And so we got a copy of FL Studio, which anyway I needed because it's great to, I need to test my software on different.

the A.A.W.s and I installed it on her computer and on mine and I tried...

like these just to explore without reading the manual and I was lost, I was quite lost in the browser and just the patterns and things that open and that you don't know how they're assigned, there's clever things in there, very clever things but some of them are just definitely not intuitive and I think that Ableton had a really good thing going on with the simplicity of their

Brian Funk (01:15:36.322)

Mm-hmm.

Alexkid (01:15:39.37)

I think... I hope they didn't lose that in version 12.

Brian Funk (01:15:44.65)

I don't think so, because if you're not, especially if you're new to it, and you see the browser that way, you'll probably take to it. And a lot of the other things that were added, you don't even have to look at them really if you don't want to. So I think they've done a nice job making some pretty big changes to the way MIDI editing is done.

Alexkid (01:15:50.365)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:16:10.666)

and generations and generators and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I'm with you. I really enjoyed just simple things that a knob inside of Ableton Live is a knob everywhere. It's not like I was using Logic before that and one knob looks like a spaceship control and the other one looks like some, you know. And so like every interface within every device you have to learn. But Live is just...

Alexkid (01:16:33.722)

Yes.

Brian Funk (01:16:39.382)

These are the knobs. These are what knobs look like in live. They're that kind of little circle, the line. That's it.

Alexkid (01:16:42.554)

Yeah, it's just like the quintessence of a knob.

Brian Funk (01:16:48.266)

Yeah, I don't need 3D graphics and shadows.

Alexkid (01:16:52.486)

No, and I actually think it ages, you know, it ages actually quite badly. I think when you have a design that is too specific to a period in time, I mean, I think I've been using Ableton for, I mean, since version one, I've been using it. And some of the things have barely changed.

Brian Funk (01:16:56.812)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:17:05.815)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:17:17.901)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:17:20.894)

I kinda like the fact that even nowadays you look at it and it doesn't look like Photoshop. You know?

Brian Funk (01:17:20.919)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:17:27.99)

Right. Yeah, it's been pretty consistent. That's something people critique about it. But I don't know. I use it every day. I don't want to have to get a new version and start over. And, you know, I've devoted a long time into learning this thing. And if it was suddenly different, I'd be like, oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, it's just.

Alexkid (01:17:43.186)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:17:51.762)

Yeah, you're a certified trainer, right?

Was that complicated?

Brian Funk (01:17:58.21)

of the process a little bit. You know, there was a couple interviews, conversations, and there was a kind of weekend of mostly, honestly, mostly what they want to see is that you can teach it. They're not teaching you. They kind of, you know, they have their, you know, Ableton's very community-based, right? You know, that was something.

Alexkid (01:18:15.825)

Okay.

Alexkid (01:18:25.502)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:18:27.086)

I always appreciated when I first started making my racks and they shared it on Twitter, I was like, what? You know, like, what company would ever recognize, like Apple wasn't gonna tweet me for using Logic, right? So it was cool. And that's half the way I got into Live was every time I looked up a tutorial for Logic, something for Ableton came up and the forums were all about that. So.

Yeah, they're looking for good personalities, I guess. I'm not gonna look down my nose at people, for instance, when they don't know how to do things and be welcoming. But it wasn't an education on how to use live or anything like that. They kind of say, we want you to already sort of have that when you show up. And yeah, the teaching stuff is.

Alexkid (01:19:02.311)

Hmm.

Alexkid (01:19:18.162)

Hmm. Interesting.

Brian Funk (01:19:24.918)

want to make sure you can present stuff well. I teach high school English as a living, so I'm used to being in front of people that don't want to hear what I have to say half the time. So when I teach anything music and they're like, show us how to, I'm like, wow, you guys want to learn? This is great. Normally people I'm teaching are drooling on themselves. And yeah, class for Berkeley. Yeah, sampling. Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

Alexkid (01:19:38.416)

Oh.

Alexkid (01:19:46.458)

You also teach Berkeley online, right?

Thanks.

fascinating subject.

Brian Funk (01:19:56.598)

Yeah, and it's kind of never ending, you know? Like, anything you can record and then mangle it. That's pretty much what we do. All the different ways you can do that. So, you know, everybody's work sounds different because they're creating different sounds and it's a lot of fun. Honestly, it's great education for me, even though I'm the teacher. But seeing how people work.

Alexkid (01:20:25.658)

Yeah, I teach a school in France. Sometimes I teach them Max for life, like initiation, just like the very, very basics. So they actually know how to deal with the software and see that it's not as scary as it looks. And the kids, as I mentioned, they're all on FL studio.

Brian Funk (01:20:29.943)

Thanks for watching.

Brian Funk (01:20:43.874)

Right.

Alexkid (01:20:53.882)

It's interesting to hear what they're doing and their approach to music. And it's, some of them, it's, to some of them, it's so different from the approach that kids would have when I was a kid. It's fascinating.

like what they like, how they approach sounds and how they would mash them up. I think that nowadays at least people my generation are like trying to be a bit not too careful but you know you're just like no this you don't mix up with this you know there's things that we don't do you know and then they're just like f*** it i'm gonna do it.

Brian Funk (01:21:42.334)

Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

Alexkid (01:21:43.618)

you know. And sometimes I don't know if it's total innocence or total lack of taste, you know, it's just like, you're just like, I actually don't know, I think it's terrible, but it's interesting.

Brian Funk (01:22:01.142)

Yeah, yeah, well, sometimes it's just the innocence. Sometimes it's, you know, they just have different preferences and sometimes they don't know that they're not supposed to and they do it and you're like, well, you're not supposed to do that, but that was cool. And I love that, that happens a lot, you know, teaching where people do stuff that I know better. Like, you're not supposed to put the compressor there and then they do it and it sounds awesome. And

Alexkid (01:22:10.694)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:22:21.839)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:22:30.75)

You learn a lot that way. What were you using? You must have been this like in the 90s. So when you were that age, what were your tools?

Alexkid (01:22:38.593)

Oh.

Alexkid (01:22:43.506)

Cakewalk 1.

Brian Funk (01:22:45.842)

Okay, so it was on the computer.

Alexkid (01:22:48.014)

Yeah, it was... I studied... I mean, originally I played guitar. And I studied with the four tracks on tape. Then I convinced my parents that I needed a computer to study and...

Brian Funk (01:22:58.826)

Yeah, that's what I did too.

Alexkid (01:23:09.126)

I ended up more like doing backgrounds with beatmaps and paint and had the kickwalk one, yeah. And from there, bought a Proteus II, and I started making music with these, with the drum tracks, sequential circuits.

Brian Funk (01:23:09.755)

Clever.

Brian Funk (01:23:18.239)

Hmm.

Alexkid (01:23:35.326)

have an absolute love-hate relationship with a drum machine. I had three of them. Every time I'm like, I need it. And then I'm like, I'm gonna sell it. And then I'm like, I miss it, I want again. And I did this three times eventually. The thing is that I was living in Pigalle, which was the neighborhood where all the shops, all the music shops, music stores are in Paris.

Brian Funk (01:23:35.598)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:23:47.198)

Right.

Alexkid (01:23:59.01)

and I was like a real terror, like a real pest, like asking them questions all the time and I knew who was selling what and I knew who was buying what so I would buy things second hand, would play with them, would clean them and sell it for a bit more expensive and like this I ended up like building myself a studio.

bought myself a sampler and that was the big change. An S2800, started making music with this, I had an 808, eventually with a group of friends we decided to... we were like 18, 19, 20 yeah.

yeah we're gonna be producers, we're gonna be a collective and we're gonna just go all together and we're gonna produce people, we're gonna put a little bit of money, we're gonna buy a mixer and we met my publisher through a friend who was already published through this guy and he's like yeah now you guys instead of having those ideas here are the keys of a studio that I own that

no one is using at the moment, you have a month, produce yourselves because you're all musicians instead of trying to produce other people and we'll see what happens. What happened is that we made a lot of nonsense in different styles. A lot of people were not so serious about making music and eventually we ended up...

being only a handful making music in there and I started taking care of the studio. And then I got Logic 2.4.

Alexkid (01:25:55.042)

And that was the big change. Four tracks of audio that you could edit. So like this. Ah no it was with an app. Ah it was before yeah it was a Magik yeah. Yeah German brand, German company I mean. Magik yeah 2.4 I think till version 4.5 it was a Magik something like this then Apple bought it.

Brian Funk (01:26:02.858)

That's before Apple, right? That's, was it, it was when it was Apple? Yay, magic, right? Yeah.

Alexkid (01:26:26.327)

And like this I did my first EP that signed me to Fcommunications. It was with an AudioMedia 3.

so it was just like a stereo output with singe, I would send MIDI to the sampler so we had the big mixer soundtracks and I had on two channels I had like the instruments in mono that had the delay and the instruments that were dry and the rest was basically machines being triggered by MIDI and that's how I signed my first EP

That's how I did my first Alex Kiddie P and it worked. Did an album, two albums, started touring as a DJ. Those were fun times and I was spending all my money in machines. Everything that could sample and that could make a beat I would buy. Yeah, eventually I sold.

starting to buy again which is very naughty but yeah I'm trying to yeah I'm trying to establish rules so I'm not things that I don't use on a regular basis I sell but yeah logic at the same time I started with Ableton I use reason for a while also that I used to rewire into logic or Ableton

Brian Funk (01:27:43.632)

It's hard to resist, right?

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:28:09.126)

Then I switched to Pro Tools because Pro Tools could actually sync the drum machines properly, which Logic could not. And because Pro Tools, all the DSP, all the audio calculations were made on the on the TDM cards, the computer had

didn't have to calculate any audio and therefore would just synchronize properly all the drum machines. That's where I found the best comfort but like to write music and to use MIDI, Pro Tools is the most unfriendly thing I've had to work with. So yeah and then when I moved to Berlin I went back into Logic and

got annoyed at the complications to automate things and been using Ableton since then.

So yeah, Ableton since version 1.

Brian Funk (01:29:19.382)

Wow. That's cool. I think I got Ableton four, leave it on live four when I got my pro tools M box back in probably that was 2005. That was, uh, it was, it was the M box too. It wasn't the vertical one. It was the, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know I was coming off of four tracks and ADAT machines, the VHS tapes and stuff. Yeah.

Alexkid (01:29:28.699)

Nice.

Alexkid (01:29:33.182)

The blue and grey one or...?

Okay. Whatever.

Alexkid (01:29:46.954)

A dad, yeah. Good sound though.

Brian Funk (01:29:49.014)

But yeah, I wasn't MIDI at all. I was only audio. I didn't even really know what MIDI was when I got Pro Tools. Because I was playing in rock bands and guitars, so I was just recording stuff. But when I got Pro Tools and I saw the soft synths and stuff, I was like, oh, what's this? That's what this MIDI weird cable on the back of that keyboard I have is for. And

Alexkid (01:29:56.422)

Hmm. Interesting.

Brian Funk (01:30:17.986)

that opened up.

Alexkid (01:30:18.03)

And did you used to edit a lot in Pro Tools or you were just using it more like as a tape machine?

Brian Funk (01:30:24.042)

Mostly like a tape machine, but what I did, which was really sampling, I guess, but I didn't think of it that way, is with the drum tracks, I recorded every drum on my kit, I think 10 times from real quiet to loud. So, t, you know, like on the snare. And then I would just put them on the grid, like drag those files one by one. Yeah.

Alexkid (01:30:31.559)

Hmm

Alexkid (01:30:49.087)

Oh wow, that takes dedication.

Goodness.

Brian Funk (01:30:53.738)

But you know, once you get like your pattern, you can then duplicate it. And, and then I would always play the cymbals live because that would give it that human feel, but I ran into the thing, the perfection there. It was like, well, I can finally have my drums be perfect. Like I can't play like this. And then I listened to it. I'm like, huh, that's stiff, but playing the cymbals by hand helped a lot. Cause that, that messed it up.

Alexkid (01:30:57.117)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:31:19.356)

Yeah.

Yeah, fair enough.

Brian Funk (01:31:23.954)

And yeah, that was about as much editing as I was doing, you know, and then punching in and stuff like that was easier. But yeah, that, then I started seeing this MIDI stuff and I wound up in Logic for a little while too and rewiring Ableton Live. But I like.

Alexkid (01:31:41.809)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:31:43.666)

Ableton Live, the thing that really got me was the automation stuff and how easy it was to MIDI map. It's like, whoa, I could put a delay on this knob and put it on as I'm singing and recording. I didn't know how to do that in Logic.

Alexkid (01:31:49.345)

I...

Alexkid (01:31:57.466)

I think that because you can't. The problem, I don't know if they've changed this now, but before you just had to, you only could automate the track that was selected on screen. So you could not have something mapped there and then switch to another channel, it wouldn't be mapped anymore. It was such a nightmare.

Brian Funk (01:32:00.426)

Yeah, that's where I was drawn in.

Brian Funk (01:32:19.818)

And you had to go to like read and latch and I never really fully grasped how that worked.

Alexkid (01:32:22.514)

Yeah, exactly.

Alexkid (01:32:28.73)

Yeah, I mean, no, I used to be okay with this with Pro Tools, but also I got so anal in with the editing in Pro Tools. I'd be like, so like, oh no, let's move this, let's just do, let's move it a little bit behind. And then in the end, you realize that, yeah, I fucked it up. I took off all the soul, all the...

little things that actually were interesting now it sounds like clinical and boring. So yeah that's I mean long hours to learn that shit but...

Brian Funk (01:32:58.211)

Right.

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:33:07.083)

Why is it that you never realize you're doing that until you're already like five hours into the process? You think you notice right away, but it's like, you have to, maybe it's like after you take a break and you come back, you're like, oh, what did I do?

Alexkid (01:33:11.166)

Pfft. Heh heh heh.

That's true.

Alexkid (01:33:26.05)

I've been thinking sometimes of getting back an old Pro Tools though, just to use it as a tape, but like an old TDM because now they sometimes sell them for like 200 euros, the cards you know, and you get like an old computer and an HD or if you get an Alpha Link or something from SSL, you could get like a really solid, solid rig 24 in 24 outs for probably like under a thousand euros.

Brian Funk (01:33:54.142)

I have a friend that does that. He buys old Macs and they come loaded with, you know, ProTools and rigs and plugins galore, probably ethically questionable, legally questionable, but, but he likes, you know, he knows how to use whatever it is. It's like seven or eight ProTools version seven or eight. And he just stays with that. I keep. And.

I, you know, sometimes when I see him working it, I'm like, wait, what are you doing this for still? And then other times I'm like, it's working. You know, he's got it and it's, he's not worrying about like nonsense that I'm worrying about with like updates and compatibility and all that kind of garbage.

Alexkid (01:34:39.694)

Yeah, sometimes you've got to get a rig that works and it's good enough.

Brian Funk (01:34:44.894)

Yeah, if it's not broke, you don't fix it.

Alexkid (01:34:52.51)

getting a bit late on my side of things. I think I should. No, it's okay, I'm enjoying this. But it's just I'm thinking of me tomorrow and how much I'm gonna hate myself. So.

Brian Funk (01:34:54.97)

Yeah, I wanna let you go here.

Brian Funk (01:35:01.034)

Yeah, we've... Well, okay. I don't want you to be angry with me.

Alexkid (01:35:07.91)

No, no, not with you, with me, because I know that I'm a chatterbox.

Brian Funk (01:35:10.922)

Um, well, where do you want me to tell, where should we tell people to go? You can, you can tell them to visit your stuff, to see your work.

Alexkid (01:35:20.758)

Yeah, I mean currently there's often sales on the shop on 510k.de for Germany and that's where there's all my little fun little toys to play with but I've got the beat shakers that are a bit like the iterations from the Instant House

with really tailored sounds to make funny beats, mostly dancefloor oriented.

Brian Funk (01:36:00.502)

I love the art in those. They look like little cartons of milk from school.

Alexkid (01:36:05.578)

Exactly. But if there's one that I would recommend, it's definitely second. Especially now there's a new version, 1.5, with lots of new features and improved UI, improved scale, scale lock functions.

Lots of little things have been improved. Ratchet, that's a lot of fun to use. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I know that my sequencers are different from others because they have functionalities that no other sequencer have, or in a very complicated way. The mine are simple.

Brian Funk (01:36:38.666)

That's cool.

Alexkid (01:37:01.982)

because I try to keep things in... music in mind as much as possible. I don't want something that does everything. I just want something that does... that is powerful, but that is fun and simple to use with... to use within your productions. So there's demo, you can download and check it out. So directly from the product page.

Brian Funk (01:37:02.754)

Hmm.

Alexkid (01:37:32.451)

It mutes every minute of course but yeah it's worth trying. I'm not saying it because I worked on them but they're fun honestly.

Brian Funk (01:37:44.526)

Well, it's telling that you use it, right? You know, that's, and yeah, a lot, I'm sure you'll never really know the full scope of how you've reached people with your devices and your sequencers and how much music that is probably out there right now that you have no idea was your stuff that got it started. It's pretty cool.

Alexkid (01:37:47.502)

Yeah.

Alexkid (01:38:10.571)

I love when I hear a track and I'm like doubting, I'm like just like that sounds like it could have been done with mine or my plugins It makes me always smile, but yeah, you never know, you know

Brian Funk (01:38:16.85)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:38:22.85)

Yeah, no, that's cool, man. And I mean, like, just think of how you appreciate the gear you use. Um, I, when I get something I love and that helps me make music, um, it's quite a gift. So you're doing something cool. Um, you ought to be proud.

Alexkid (01:38:40.622)

Yeah, I actually feel quite fulfilled with it. It's quite a nice feeling. I'm very happy with that.

Brian Funk (01:38:50.73)

Nice. Well, Alex Kidd, sir, it's been awesome talking to you. Thanks so much for taking the time and staying up late with me. And I, I hope it's not too rough tomorrow morning on you.

Alexkid (01:38:56.592)

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Alexkid (01:39:02.671)

It's gonna be fine. I'm trained but yeah.

Brian Funk (01:39:06.998)

Very good. Thank you. Thank you to the listener of the show. Hope you enjoyed it. Have a great day.

Alexkid (01:39:07.826)

Thank you.

podcastBrian Funkmusic production podcast, alexkid