Make Your Own Rules with Andrew Huang - Music Production Podcast #351

Andrew Huang is a musician, producer, video maker, and sound explorer. He's known for his YouTube channel which currently has over 2.35 million subscribers. Andrew recently released the Transit plug-in with Baby Audio, the Ghost Pedal with Endorphines, and the iOS Flip sampler. His new book, Make Your Own Rules, details his story as a music industry misfit and shares advice on how to build a career and navigate through a new and ever-changing musical landscape.

Andrew and I had a great conversation about his work and how he followed his passion to get where he is today.  Andrew's insights about collaboration and experimentation are valuable lessons for musicians at any stage of their career. Andrew's book is currently available for pre-order and will be released February 6, 2024.

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Show Notes:

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:00.27)

Hello and welcome to the music production podcast. I'm your host brian funk and on today's show I have andrew huang and i've been a long time fan of andrew's he's doing great work. You probably know of him because uh, he's

doing quite a lot of cool stuff. Got his hands on a lot of great things. He's of course famous for his YouTube channel, over two million subscribers. He's releasing a book called Make Your Own Rules, which I'm very excited to talk about. He recently put out the Transit plugin with Baby Audio, which is awesome. Ghost pedal, flip sampler, lots and lots of stuff. I'm surprised you're only one person, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

Andrew (00:55.693)

I am only one person, but I do collaborate and I do have a little team now actually, which is so helpful.

Brian Funk (01:02.974)

I've noticed that in some of your stuff lately, you're working with other people more on the last video you were making low-fi music with kids toys, which is so right up my alley. I love any kind of music that's made with things that aren't musical instruments.

Andrew (01:11.933)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (01:18.494)

Yeah, it's funny, I really, I think, collected, I don't know if that's the right word, but I built a lot of my audience from that type of content. It's funny because I don't, it's just like one way to approach music, but I think I did it so much for a certain period and it is a thing that you're more likely to kind of have viral moments with or whatever, because it's a bit out of the ordinary, that I built a lot of my audience that way and if I don't do it for a while, and then I bring it back,

For me, it's just like, oh, this is what I'm doing this week. But for the audience, it's like, oh, man, getting back to the Foley, the found sound. Wow, this is the classic Andrew vibe or whatever, which is interesting to me that it's a very different perception, I think, from a viewer compared to how I just kind of approach things and use what I need to use for the given project or idea. But yeah.

Yeah, so that was the most recent video, although actually just this afternoon, I put out my top plugins of the year round up. So second most recent, I guess now.

Brian Funk (02:21.41)

Oh, okay. Exciting, yeah. Yeah, so you had like, Ryan was working with you, I believe his name was right. In that one, so.

Andrew (02:29.794)

That's right, yeah. He's the newest addition to the team. Great guy who just happened to be local. I put out, for the first time ever, put out a job posting.

I think that was just two, three months ago, because up until now, I've grown my little team through just friends and family. My brother-in-law was my first hire, unless you count his sister, my wife, who at a certain point took over a lot of the business side of what has to happen when you do what I do. But yeah, and then just like friends or friends of friends

the picture and so for the first time we felt like, well, let's do some outreach. We don't know anybody already who can kind of tackle this many hats type of job that you know we're going to have to have because there's so many things that need to be done in an operation like this. And I think this is kind of the way a lot of things are moving. You don't have just like...

a color grader and a video editor and a mixer or whatever, but like a lot of people can do a lot of different things and that's the kind of person that we were looking for and Ryan's been fantastic at that. But yeah, we also have um

A couple other people that have shown up on my channel more recently, like maybe the audience has seen some of my camera people. And then Marty is another kind of music production assistant, mixing assistant, who's just kind of like ad hoc hours, not a full-time employee or anything. And then also I've been doing so much stuff with Rob Scallon because we just want to work together more. We're...

Andrew (04:17.922)

best friends in real life as well as on screen, I guess. And so, yeah, just being able to shoot more collaboratively has been really great for me. And in part, it's also because now with a family, I'm just trying to find ways to do videos where other people are worrying about the camera, other people can take care of the edit. So, yeah.

Brian Funk (04:38.742)

Right, I mean all that stuff, it's a lot of work when you're trying to do all that by yourself. You're basically wearing a hundred hats and even just to produce music you're kind of wearing a hundred different hats. You're the talent, you're the engineer, you're the mixer and then you start throwing video stuff in there and if you're a person that's not familiar with that stuff, it's a lot, it's overwhelming.

Andrew (05:00.862)

It's a ton, yeah. And I have to give Rob a lot of credit for kind of showing me the way because I was very DIY. I kind of prided myself on being self-sufficient and being able to learn whatever I needed to learn and work hard and be an example of that and those kinds of things. And I think I had to kind of get over this weird thing about me where...

it was okay for someone else to be part of it, or it was okay to recognize that someone else could do some of these things better than I could. And I started working with Rob, and he would just rent an actual music studio, and there would be an engineer there, and I didn't have to think about anything with mic placement or making a new track in the DAW, anything like that. I was like, wow, I know how to do this, but it's so great when I don't have.

Brian Funk (05:46.894)

Yeah.

Andrew (05:56.996)

have to. And so, you know, we are able to have projects like that now where there's just like someone else who's behind the computer or the desk or whatever it is. And yeah, it really makes a difference. And I think, you know, I'm not opposed to either. I still do both, but it's like great to be able to embrace whichever one works.

Brian Funk (06:17.526)

Yeah, good option to have. I guess it allows you to really focus on the creative part. The actual writing the songs, producing the music, and having the fun with it without having to be like, all right, hold on, now let me go over here and do this thing and fix that up. And...

Andrew (06:31.518)

Yeah, it really does. It's a luxury, and sometimes not at all to diminish what engineers do, but I think I had a mindset where I was like, well, if I need to stop and move a microphone, or if I need to go back to my computer and set up a new track, hit record, or figure out a bus, or whatever, I can do that. I should be able to do it myself, but...

whether it takes a few minutes or even just 15 seconds, that is a little interruption to whatever flow you're in. Doesn't matter how small it is. It's still like, you've got to change gears, you've got to put your attention somewhere else, and then come back. So yeah, it can really make a bigger difference than, for me, at least what it felt like it might.

Brian Funk (07:20.654)

Hmm. Well, I can imagine that's hard to let go of too, with, you know, having your name on things. And there is a pride, the DIY thing, you know, that's, that's a nice like kind of ethos that a lot of us have. Um, but it seems to like, it's a, it's a musical thing as well, like letting go of maybe like the pride or the ego that goes into like controlling everything. And

I noticed that a lot. It's something I've really enjoyed about watching some of your stuff where you're collaborating with Rob and then the one with Ryan is you get to see this creative process. And in order to do what you're doing, to produce as much content, to be involved in so many projects, you've gotta have, I guess, a spirit of like, yes, let's go and do that. Let's try this and not resist things and see where things go.

And it comes out in the production as well. And then I think the music is another great example of where you see that.

Andrew (08:23.922)

Yeah, no, I think that's true. It's so much about kind of like that improv rule, you know, yes and you gotta like roll with things and be a supportive collaborator and, you know, roll with someone's idea, try someone's idea because you really don't know until you're actually hearing it. Like...

Brian Funk (08:31.691)

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew (08:49.07)

We might like to think, you know, we could imagine what something will be and decide that it wouldn't work, but it can really change to actually just do it and then feel it and like know, you know, what it is in reality. I also... Yeah, I think that another part of it is like if you...

I don't know if other people think of it like this. This is what I started to notice when I was doing more sessions and how I try to approach it, I guess. If you don't like a direction or an idea, it's more about kind of like steering things or like throwing something else out there rather than like shutting that down or like talking about why something isn't working or whatever, like, you know, that energy doesn't need to be there. And it's so much better to focus on like, okay, what else can we do? What needs to happen to get to the finish line?

Brian Funk (09:41.41)

Right, because it's vulnerable, right? Anytime you're creating with somebody else, especially, you're kind of putting yourself out there every time you put an idea out there. And if you get shut down enough times, you kind of like stop raising your hand, you stop offering suggestions. It's really cool to see that happen when you guys work together, because it's such an important thing, I think we need to do with our music, even sometimes when you're working by yourself, to just...

Kind of go for it, see where this road takes you.

Andrew (10:12.366)

That's so true. When you're doing something on your own, yeah, it's easy to, in some cases, maybe even easier to talk yourself out of trying the idea or like taking the approach that's gonna be a little harder or, yeah, I think that's a really great insight. It's like collaborating with yourself, being supportive of yourself and believing in your own ideas. Yeah, that's great.

Brian Funk (10:35.758)

Be nice to yourself. I think a great example of what you guys do is, well, two come to mind actually. I was watching one where you guys did 100 riffs. To go with 100 riffs is so ridiculous, right? But to just plow through and see what you come up with. And then you guys also do an album in the beginning of October, right? For one day.

Andrew (10:49.322)

Oh yeah, love that one.

Andrew (11:00.522)

Yeah, 1st of October, for the rest of our lives, that day is booked in the calendar. We try and write and record a full album in one day.

Brian Funk (11:09.726)

What kind of like creative hell does that put you through?

Andrew (11:16.262)

You know, I mean, well, that's one of those situations where we have Rob Ruscha, who's Rob Scallon's longtime engineer, and now I've worked with him so many times. And so we have a great chemistry just knowing that he is the same guy behind the desk every time and knows what we need to do to get through that type of a challenge now.

And also just in general that it's that situation where we're not having to think about any of the technical details. We just pick up an instrument and go. So that helps a lot. And really it's very enjoyable. Like there, I think, and we've gotten better at it too. The first couple albums, there are definitely some moments that I cringe at where we just like couldn't get an idea. I think there's one song where we even left in us just talking about not having time to make lyrics and whatnot.

But yeah, we've gotten better at like, how the day needs to flow, like what things need to be priorities. Man, the first couple albums, I think we were like, oh, we'll do all the lyrics and vocals at the end. It'll be better to like do it in a batch, which is actually a terrible idea. Like those things should come as each song is developing and...

Brian Funk (12:22.894)

Hmm.

Andrew (12:29.934)

Yeah, just things like that we figured out. And so now it really feels great. Like we can just, we know we can do it. We can walk into that room and be like, wow, 12 hours from now, we're going to have 10 finished songs that did not exist in any way before this morning. And yeah, I think it's really interesting because now that we've done it so many times, you notice these trends like...

Brian Funk (12:38.638)

Hmm.

Andrew (12:58.678)

the first couple of songs are usually not among the best, like at all. Like usually we do a handful and there might be like a gem around the fourth or fifth one. Usually the one that turns out to be our favorite and in many cases the audience's favorite is like maybe between the sixth and the eighth one of the day.

Brian Funk (13:23.15)

Hmm, I'm warmed up.

Andrew (13:23.698)

And then, yeah, so there's a lot of like warmup and a lot of like, wow, we did a lot of different ideas. We...

Yeah, just got warmed up, you know, and it took hours and it took literally completing a bunch of other songs to get to this place where suddenly an amazing thing just comes out. And then after that, we're tired in the last couple songs, kind of our lower quality again, maybe. That's just like a general pattern that I sort of feel like happens on a lot of those now that we're at year five. But yeah.

Brian Funk (13:35.179)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (13:49.009)

More mellow.

Andrew (13:57.686)

It's a great process, great learning process, a great creative process.

Brian Funk (14:03.174)

Year one, did you think you could do it? Were you confident that you guys would get it done? Yeah.

Andrew (14:07.21)

Not at all. Yeah, we thought it was just gonna be like a joke video. Like, just watch us completely train wreck here because it's such an absurd premise. And then we got through it better than we thought we would. And there are actually, you know, maybe two cuts off that album where we're like, wow, we love these songs. We...

Brian Funk (14:12.042)

Right.

Andrew (14:25.122)

definitely play them again, we'd love to polish them up maybe if we decide to do that sometime. And so it made us realize that it's somewhat possible. And then, yeah, just each year we kind of figure out better ways to structure the day, or we just understand we were like better at recognizing when we're starting to waste time or worry about something that doesn't matter as much or, you know, we can just say like, yeah, we're happy with that take and move on.

Brian Funk (14:53.634)

Yeah.

Andrew (14:53.79)

And again and again, we learned there are so many things that in the moment you're unhappy with, or like, oh, that drum fill was a bit off time, or my vocal could have been stronger, but then a lot of that stuff just doesn't end up bugging you once it's in the final mix, you know?

Brian Funk (15:09.826)

Hmm. Right, right. You get a little too hyper-focused. But it's a good point because you prove to yourself you can do it. You do something really hard like that. And then the next time you show up, you're kind of like, well, we did it. You know, it's not impossible. We've figured that out at least. It's not impossible. So we can do it.

Andrew (15:13.564)

Yeah.

Andrew (15:29.674)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, each time, you know, we get more of that confidence and it becomes more of an exciting project to do rather than like a daunting kind of, maybe it's gonna be uncomfortable or maybe it's not gonna turn out good. Yeah, we just like I actually, after the second year we did it, I wasn't sure if I was gonna do it again. I felt like...

There were too many things on the second album that I didn't love and that I didn't feel like I wanted to go back and listen to. I was just like, is this really something that makes sense as a long-term repeatable format? But I decided to give it another shot and then...

On the third year, it really felt like, oh no, we gotta do this forever. Because by that time, it just, we just crossed that point where it was like, okay, we figured out how to do this well. We're coming up with stuff that we like. I guess probably, you know, our chemistry had just like bonded even more. And now I just can't imagine not doing it.

Brian Funk (16:34.434)

Hmm. It's a great tradition to have with somebody that you're close with like that. An excuse to get together. Yeah.

Andrew (16:40.67)

Oh, it is. I recommend it to anybody. Like if you've got a buddy or two that you love to jam with, like try it out or even, you know, take a few days to make something start to finish. But yeah, make it a yearly tradition. It's some of the most fun ever.

Brian Funk (16:53.582)

Hmm. There really is something that happens when you work with somebody and you finish something and you've both poured a lot of your heart and energy into it and then you've got something, you've documented it, you've created something out of thin air. It's the closest thing I know to magic really. It's...

Andrew (17:13.29)

Oh yeah, that never gets old. And I think that's why, I mean, finishing is just so important. I think what this makes me think of is I have had different periods in my life where I'm like, oh, you know, if I'm just enjoying what I'm doing in the moment, shouldn't that be enough? And I don't know, maybe for some people it is, maybe it should be, but I think there is that like extra level of...

of having that thing done, that's more satisfying for me than just jamming and having a great time and then it's over. Being able to, I guess, push myself and create something that I feel like is a little more special. Being able to have something that you're able to share with other people, having something that maybe connects on a deeper level, I think that stuff is also so important. So, yeah, I think, yeah. Finishing...

It's huge. It's so hard for every artist, but I think it's like the most important thing.

Brian Funk (18:12.018)

Yeah, sure. That's the thing we get the least amount of practice doing because it's the last step. You don't always get there. That satisfaction though, I mean, I've done stuff by myself, solo records, and I love that. There's something really important for me in that. But the sharing of it is just...

Andrew (18:18.89)

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Brian Funk (18:38.722)

something next level, like when you have a couple people that you can just sit around with and say, yeah, we did that. You can listen back to what you did and just know like you went through it together. You all understand the struggles and the challenges. I guess, you know, we're just social creatures. So to be able to have other people that get it exactly what happened.

Andrew (18:59.546)

Yeah. Oh yeah, that's so true. Like just, yeah, being able to hang out with other people that make music and like, you know, we all have this thing where we just have to do it for some reason. And yeah, having those kindred spirits around and, you know, even better working on something together and having that kind of, I mean, it's a type of intimacy, really, like you're, if the work, I think, you know, is

Brian Funk (19:23.502)

Yeah.

Andrew (19:29.878)

I don't know how to exactly put a value on it or whatever, but I think you are sharing real things about yourself. Even if you're making something that's lighthearted or whatever, it's coming from you, you're connecting with your collaborator, you're both having to work together and... I guess working towards that same...

finished thing that both of you are a part of. It's something special, something else.

Brian Funk (20:00.574)

Yeah, it's, you know, when you're not comfortable with the people you're working with or you're performing and it's, you know, not well received, that's some of the most terrifying feelings there are. So anytime you go into some sort of project with somebody, you're risking that. You're taking the chance that maybe it won't go. I mean, after a while, you get to know who you work well with and there's a just an acceptance of each other, which is also great to have. It's, you know, um,

It doesn't come from every musical situation you get involved in, but it takes a leap of faith. It certainly does.

Andrew (20:38.954)

It's true, yeah. And that can be scary and I guess it, yeah, depends too on everybody's expectations going into things and how well you know each other and all that. I think, I feel lucky that I have this kind of behind the scenes approach that I do with a lot of my work or that it's just become a part of me or my brand or whatever you wanna call it, that I'm pretty transparent about my process and that.

um, it's not all finished shiny products because in situations like this, whether it's with a collaborator or just on my own, you know, if something has been worked on and it didn't turn out great or it didn't turn out how we wanted to, uh, it's still so useful a lot of the time as some kind of content and, you know, content is kind of like a

Brian Funk (21:34.07)

Hmm.

Andrew (21:36.83)

a terrible word in a lot of ways, but in terms of like having something that you can show to someone else on whatever these platforms that we're using and say like, well, this is what I was thinking and this is what I tried. This is what I like about it. This is what I didn't. And maybe someone else can take it and run with it, or maybe someone else just feels understood because, oh, someone else who is working on the same type of music as me also doesn't make bangers all day long. Or there's just so many...

Brian Funk (21:38.346)

Yeah, potentially cheap.

Brian Funk (22:03.362)

Hmm.

Andrew (22:07.444)

It's such a nuanced complex process to create something that I think being able to share what we can share is so great. It doesn't have to all be just like, okay, this is the official release and everything else is kind of in the trash can or something.

Brian Funk (22:25.566)

Right, right. Well, I think music and art has gotten very commoditized, is that a word? But turned into like some kind of product, right? And it's all about the finished product and you get the thing. But over the last, you know, whatever years it's been with YouTube, the internet, you get to really see the process. And that's really what anyone will really tell you is the important part is the process of showing off, of putting in the work and

product, you can't always control how it's gonna come out. You can't always control how it's gonna be received, but the process, if you just trust in it, and the way you work where we get to see the process reminds us of that. I think that's a thing that a lot of people enjoy. It's the same reason why it's so fun to hear the demos of your favorite album, to watch The Beatles working on Get Back and all of that stuff is like, oh, they're humans and they're...

They're doing it. It's not just this magical thing that appeared out of nowhere because sometimes the final product is that way and it seems impossible almost.

Andrew (23:34.411)

Yeah, that's true. And it's interesting because sometimes...

And I don't know if there's a way to predict when this is. Sometimes going behind the curtain feels like it takes away from the end product and you're like, you know, seeing how the sausage is made or whatever. Other times it feels like it adds to it. And I don't know how to balance that exactly, but I've just fully embraced, like, let's show everything. I think I remember being, you know, 15 years old and listening to my favorite bands and just not having any idea how they were doing what they were doing.

Brian Funk (23:49.538)

Uh huh.

Brian Funk (23:55.83)

Hmm.

Andrew (24:09.668)

This was pre-social media for sure. This was very early internet. There wasn't a lot of info. If you were just someone with no ties to the industry and you're buying these records, have no idea how these sounds are made, how people write, what does a producer do, all these kinds of things. And I just remember thinking, if I ever make it in any way, the type of musician I would

to be as a type of musician who shares and who... I'm so, so down to open up my projects and be like, here's the setting on every knob. I really want to let people know, just because, I guess, as a kid, it would have meant so much to me to be able to see that and understand it and learn from it.

Brian Funk (24:52.002)

Hmm.

Andrew (25:02.346)

And so I've just fully embraced that as opposed to any kind of like secrecy. Although I don't have like time to be that in depth about every single piece of music I make, but yeah, I think that's important.

Brian Funk (25:10.361)

Sure.

The best we used to get was maybe in the artwork in the album, liner notes or something, maybe some pictures, or maybe like the lyric sheets scribbled out. And it was really interesting to see. It's like, wow, they wrote the words down to that song. Like somebody sat down with a pen and did that. It's wild.

Andrew (25:26.45)

Yeah, I love that. And it's, in a way, I think, taking us back to something a little more authentic. And I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to create a really perfect polished package and putting that out.

But I think there were so many steps, culturally and historically, to get there, where now that we have social media and it's getting so much faster and easier to just share anything, that kind of takes us back to, I feel like, what it would be like...

before any of this technology existed. Like if you were just listening to music live because someone was playing it and that was the only way you could experience music, you are seeing the process, you know? Like you, they have to be there in front of you. And then we got really abstracted from that with recordings where you just don't.

Brian Funk (26:09.899)

Yeah.

Andrew (26:23.394)

see the music being made. You don't even necessarily know what instruments are involved sometimes, if you can't pick them all out. Maybe you don't know what these people look like. And I don't know, maybe that should not be important, but there's definitely a remove, you know, there's a disconnect there. And...

Brian Funk (26:42.411)

Right.

Andrew (26:45.342)

Yeah, I guess I don't really know if any of this is good or bad or whatever, but I do think it is good that we have the option now to be much more connective.

Brian Funk (26:55.246)

I guess that's true. We can choose not to look if we don't want to ruin the fantasy or not or anything like that. Mm-hmm.

Andrew (27:00.382)

Yeah, yeah, and artists can choose not to reveal anything they don't want to.

Brian Funk (27:06.018)

Yeah, I think it brings out the humanity though. And that's something where, I think when I'm listening to music, that's what I'm connecting with, that this is another human going through these things that I can relate to, even if I didn't do exactly what they did or it wasn't in that time period even, to know that there's still this universal things and it was just a person sharing what they went through. I love that we can find that a little bit more.

It's a way to connect. It makes you feel like you're not as alone in this world trying to survive here.

Andrew (27:42.054)

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And this is why I don't know if I'm gonna end up eating these words, but this is why right now I'm not really afraid of AI taking away from what musicians have to offer. When I get really into music, it's not just the music. It's knowing that there's that person behind it and they went through something to get...

Brian Funk (27:54.934)

Hmm.

Andrew (28:11.086)

to this output. And yeah, I think that, I mean, maybe we'll get to a point where it's indistinguishable, where AI like even comes up with a backstory for an artist and generates their whole, you know, social media profile and all that kind of stuff. I don't know, I'm sure it could happen, but I do think there's, you know, we're just so far away from anything like that. I think we are, we still want to connect with something truly human.

Brian Funk (28:22.25)

Right. All right.

Brian Funk (28:33.89)

Hmm.

Andrew (28:39.97)

And yeah, just seeing the backstory, seeing what someone went through, and even in a way just knowing that it was real, I guess, makes a difference.

Brian Funk (28:55.998)

Yeah, that happened.

Andrew (28:56.882)

And you don't always know for sure. I mean, people can fabricate stuff, but I find that really interesting. And I actually, I spent a lot of time wrestling with that in a part of my book about authenticity where it's so strangely contextual. It's so, and it's so delicate. Like the audience really needs to, with music anyway, I think.

feel like you're being real. And it's so strange because in, I think other types of professions, I don't know, like an actor is by definition, not being themselves and that's, we almost respect them the further away they can get from their real selves. But I think that we really can't do that. It's so hard with music to...

Brian Funk (29:30.027)

Right.

Brian Funk (29:37.707)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (29:43.032)

Yeah.

Andrew (29:51.294)

if you come across as anything less than genuine, the wind is taken out of the sails in a lot of ways, you know?

Brian Funk (29:58.558)

Yeah, I guess we appreciate the actors and actresses that find something real in their performances that we can all connect to. I'm with you on the AI thing. When I was a teenager, started wearing ripped jeans and flannels because I love Nirvana. And I don't know that AI is going to make me change my outfit and adopt this kind of identity that you took on because you connected with the artists you were into.

Andrew (30:21.294)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Brian Funk (30:29.166)

I think it's so much more than that. It's always one of the first questions I ask. I hear a song I like, it's like, who is this? Like, I wanna know about them. And I've, like, I've heard some pretty interesting, you've probably seen these online, like, you know, like Brian Wilson sings the Ramones or something like that. It's all AI, like bots doing it. And it's really convincing. I've heard like young Paul McCartney singing his new songs and you're like, well, that's interesting, but.

Andrew (30:35.274)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (30:47.294)

Oh yeah.

Andrew (30:53.852)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (30:56.67)

I don't usually ever get to the end of the track. It's usually like, oh yeah, okay, what else? What else is going on out there? Because it's, I guess I know that it's just not, it's not that thing. I'm not gonna get that feeling from it in the same way.

Andrew (30:59.019)

Yeah.

Andrew (31:12.374)

Yeah, no, it's true. It's true. I mean, definitely interesting to see where it's gonna go. But, yeah, for now it feels like this... What's that?

Brian Funk (31:19.669)

Yeah. We're in for a ride. We can guarantee that. We're definitely in for a ride, wherever it's going. Who knows?

Andrew (31:26.77)

Yeah, oh yeah, this past year and all the developments in that world have really, that made a lot of the future uncertain, I feel like.

Brian Funk (31:37.238)

Well, I think you're probably the kind of person that's poised to do well, because you are showing, you're taking us through it, you know? And some of these tracks you guys are working on the album, you see like the pain points, you know, there's moments of just doubt and frustration and then the joy of all that stuff, like that's all stuff that people connect to. So I think you're set up for that.

It's kind of interesting, like we're talking about like being behind the scenes and now you've got your book coming out called Make Your Own Rules, which is sort of behind the scenes about being behind the scenes in a way.

Andrew (32:13.903)

It is. I had someone else say to me a while ago, like, I pull the curtain back on pulling the curtain back, which I thought was so funny, but it's like, it's kind of true. Like, once you get to a certain point of like, doing behind the scenes or showing the process, like...

Brian Funk (32:21.01)

Alright.

Andrew (32:32.09)

how do you show the process? I had a lot of people ask me, can you show us how you make a YouTube video? Because your YouTube videos show us how you make the music. We have no idea how you make the videos. And then if I did that, no one would know how I made the video about making the video. But it's funny, those layers. But yeah, I don't really know where I was going with that. But yeah, the book is here to...

Brian Funk (32:42.088)

Right.

Brian Funk (32:46.439)

How'd you do that?

Brian Funk (32:55.513)

It's a funny irony or something.

Andrew (32:58.718)

I guess in the book, yeah, it does talk a lot more about what went into just my whole career and even what happened in my life that led me down this weird path of a very different approach to finding a way to thrive in an industry that's very strange and always changing.

Brian Funk (33:18.699)

Right.

Andrew (33:22.194)

Yeah, it's a hard book to sum up because it is intentionally all over the place. Like I do a lot of little boxes where it's like, here's a self-reflection for you, or here's like something you can like fill out. Or, you know, there's a story from my childhood. Pardon?

Brian Funk (33:38.922)

like interactive stuff like that. Interactive kind of things, yeah.

Andrew (33:43.23)

A little bit, yeah. So I'm like, you know, things to think about and then the occasional thing where it's like, oh, maybe try this assignment or that kind of thing. But yeah, then there's stories from my childhood. There's stories of getting my career off the ground. There's like little pie charts of how my different revenue streams changed over the years. It's like trying to, I guess, take a lot of different approaches to showing people, here's my very weird way.

that I approach things and also my general thought process about how I, you know, kind of continue to evolve as the world and as all these platforms evolve. But also, like, mainly I think it's about giving people permission to, in any part of their work where the traditional conventional thing doesn't work, you can totally find your own way to do it. I think that's the heart of it.

Brian Funk (34:43.406)

I think that's the exciting thing that's happening. You know, there's been so many scares in the music industry in the last like 20 years with the way things are changing, but it's really opened up so many opportunities for people to get creative and try new things and go places where no one's gone before. I got a kick out of looking back on your YouTube page. So I click like the oldest button, right? Now I'm looking at your first videos.

Andrew (35:07.751)

Uh-huh.

Brian Funk (35:09.814)

And I spent an hour or so today with pink fluffy unicorns dancing around, that melody playing in my head. But what I kind of noticed was like, sort of like a fearlessness in what you did. And that you were just, it seemed like you were trying things that you just felt like doing. There's a lot of covers, there's a lot of like different interpretations.

Andrew (35:14.854)

Oh yeah.

Brian Funk (35:35.23)

And there's no kind of like set style to any of the videos really. You don't have the high five that you've developed with the little sparkles that come out in the beginning, little like fun things like that, that are now like kind of part of the trademark.

Andrew (35:41.448)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (35:51.654)

And I guess I'm wondering, was there something that happened at some point in those early stages that caught on that made you say like, hey, maybe this is, maybe I'm onto something here. This is kind of cool. So maybe it's getting a reaction or maybe you just felt kind of at home in it. Cause it does seem like you're, you're kind of, um, really just trying lots of different things.

Andrew (36:15.486)

Yeah, you know, you definitely are right on the mark with that. I didn't have a particular direction, and I was very excited about a lot of different things, and I figured I would just do whatever in the moment seemed fun and within reach of my capabilities at the time. This was also...

when did I start posting on YouTube? Like 2010 or slightly earlier when I started to really go for it. And at that time, there wasn't a culture at all of growing a following online. And so it wasn't in my mind to grow. I was already doing kind of little music production and writing jobs for hire as kind of the main job.

Brian Funk (36:44.56)

13 years ago.

Andrew (37:08.75)

And so YouTube was just an interesting thing that I was compelled to explore without really knowing where it was gonna go. And so, yeah, it was just like doing what I thought was fun. And then some stuff caught on, some stuff didn't, some stuff became more interesting than other stuff. And I sort of in tandem with getting excited about posting more and more on YouTube, learned more about just...

branding, I guess you could call it, just the idea that if your audience is there, they're going to have expectations, whether you like it or not. And how can you...

use that to your advantage but in an authentic way. Because being all over the place is my MO. I'm still like that in a lot of ways, but I've just found good frames for it. But the genre of music I'm working on is different from day to day, from video to video. Even the tone of it can be quite different. I can write stuff that's quite dark. I can also go completely like kids songs, Pink Fluffy Unicorns, comedic and...

all these different angles, but I think by being focused on, this kind of longish season of my career right now, it's been really about how do I show other people how they can also participate in making music and how fun it is. And so, yeah, the earlier frames that I found were doing challenges. So I would...

Brian Funk (38:33.166)

Hmm.

Andrew (38:43.57)

I was always doing something kind of strange anyway, but if I just framed it as a challenge, I did this series called Song Challenge, and it might be like, can I make a song with just a balloon? Or it could be, what if this classic jazz song was electronic? Or it could be like, what if I tried to rap in five languages? And these are completely unrelated ideas. But if I just set it up as like, is it possible? Ooh, it's a challenge. Then that became like a calling card

and something that people can tune in for, whether or not they cared about that genre or me as an artist even necessarily. So yeah, I was slowly learning these things that I think a lot of smarter people or definitely people who have any business or marketing background kind of understand, where I guess I was in a mindset that...

a creative person should just be kind of free and whimsical and go from whatever to whatever based on their inspiration that day, which I think in part is still true and you have to have that open play time. But also there are so many things that are often quite simple that can just be really effective for those kind of like...

Brian Funk (39:59.778)

Hmm.

Andrew (40:10.578)

outward goals of, oh, how can I sustain this? How can I build an audience? If I can make money doing this, that means I'll have more time to do it, and that's a good thing. So figuring out how to just be a little bit smarter about some of that business planning, strategic kind of stuff was big for me.

Brian Funk (40:30.166)

Hmm, well, there's a lot to think about, right? Especially when you're trying to also make music and produce some stuff that's interesting for people to watch, but it's a great concept though, just to give yourself those challenges because it does keep you in the act of doing stuff. If nothing else, you're still making music. You're still flexing that muscle, still working at it, still practicing your craft.

Andrew (40:56.022)

Yeah, and for me, it is a part of music that is just always something that fires me up, is like, what happens when there's this restraint? Or what happens if we try to use this item that's not normally meant for music? Or...

I'll, you know, now I'm getting more into just like weird studio tricks or like combining strange gear or things like that. But a lot of it for me is just that curiosity and exploration, um, which.

you know, for whatever reason is just more exciting most of the time for me than saying like, Oh, I'm going to sit down here with my guitar now and write a song with three choruses. And I love that too. But it's just not as often what I go to when I could be discovering something because I decided like, okay, the snare drum for this song has to be me hitting a watermelon and what's that going to turn out to be?

Brian Funk (41:58.411)

Yeah, yeah. Well, we are gifted with the blessing and the curse of basically every option possible now. Infinite tracks, samples we can find forever, new instruments, presets. I mean, it just doesn't end. I think some of my most productive days were when I just had a four-track and a guitar and a microphone, and that was it. What am I going to do with it today? How am I going to make it sound different than the last song? How am I going to...

fool around and come up with something that's still fun and interesting. Whereas sometimes now I find myself just like scrolling through presets or plugins or, and just, no, no. And that's the kind of the opposite of what we were saying earlier about the yes and philosophy from, uh, you know, improv comedy, where if you're saying the snare drum has to be a watermelon getting hit, then, all right, now you get creative, how can I make this work?

Andrew (42:43.94)

Hehehe

Brian Funk (42:55.798)

What can I do to fit this in? So it's kind of, I guess, built into that challenge mentality that you're, you're cutting out all those potential options and just let's do something with this. See what happens.

Andrew (42:55.916)

Yeah.

Andrew (43:09.71)

100%. And what that makes me think of is, I think an approach or an attitude that I definitely, is still kind of part of me and I still feel like in a way maybe I'm outgrowing. But I know a lot of people maybe see a studio like mine where there's a lot of gear or they see someone who has tons of different plugins or you have a Splice subscription, you have millions of options.

like the music making process should be is you are working and then you need that one thing and you have it because out of your million options, you know exactly where to go. You got it. You pull it out. There it is. Now you can keep working. But I find actually it's so often the, I don't know if it's the opposite of that. It's not that sometimes very occasionally you're like, I know the perfect thing for this. And then you grab it out of your million options.

Way more often what it is, is you start with a palette. And it's like, today I want to see what happens with these two guitar pedals. Or like, today I'm scrolling through presets, but I'm picking this one. This one's speaking to me and I'm going to run with it. And through that, like that's where tracks come together. It's having that commitment and having that limited little world.

Brian Funk (44:30.679)

Hmm.

Andrew (44:37.41)

that little sandbox that you play in. It's so much more about that than having like every option so that you can call on the perfect thing at the perfect time.

Brian Funk (44:47.194)

Yeah. I find that kind of like anxiety provoking when it's like, well, which synth should I use? Which, oh, I don't know. Like what's the right answer here? And you wind up flipping through sounds, presets, plugging things in, changing things out. To me, that's not really being creative. But when you say like, I'm going to make it, I'm only using four tracks today. Something like that.

Andrew (44:54.312)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (45:13.622)

You're just like, okay, now I got to think on my feet a little bit. I know what I can use for that. That's it's, I think that's the modern day dilemma problem that we face now. You know, back in my four track days as a teenager, it was, everything sounded like garbage, you know, and I wish I had more tracks. I wish I had more things, but, um, now like, you know, you even just get the light version.

Andrew (45:31.726)

Hehehehehehe

Brian Funk (45:42.43)

of any DAW and you are like light years ahead, light years away.

Andrew (45:46.494)

Yeah, I think too the thing that we're still figuring out because it's so new is what it means to be so connected all the time and how that affects our process in more ways than one because, you know, obviously, if we're...

Brian Funk (45:59.234)

Hmm.

Andrew (46:06.166)

We're scrolling these algorithmically curated feeds. And for people like us, I mean, I don't want to necessarily guess what's in your timeline, but I'm sure plugins and music equipment is showing up. It's same with me.

Brian Funk (46:15.518)

You can probably guess. As far as I can tell everyone in the universe is playing with synthesizers and guitars and, and they love dogs and you know, a couple other weird things. But yeah, that's so perfectly tuned in to what I want to see.

Andrew (46:22.194)

Yeah.

Andrew (46:33.406)

Yeah, and so you're always looking at a shiny new thing, and that just wasn't the case even 15 years ago. Certainly not for the majority of music making history, did people just have a, like literally a new instrument they could learn about every single day and wonder how cool it would be to play with that. I think that's probably doing a number on us. I think in another way too, we all feel the pressure to be active

on these social platforms and it's harder to feel like you can get away for a like removed enough break that you can really do some deep work. And you know maybe if you can like block it out for a few hours a day that's enough. But I kind of wonder you know does it.

Brian Funk (47:18.413)

Yeah.

Andrew (47:26.798)

does it change things if you really are just offline for weeks or months? And I imagine it's got to.

Brian Funk (47:33.458)

I'm sure. I mean, sometimes I feel like a hermit if I haven't been on email since, you know, I didn't go on email after dinner last night. Like, oh my God. I feel like I have a beard and I'm eating beans in a mountain somewhere. You know? So the book, Make Your Own Rules, coming out February, I believe it said, right?

Andrew (47:42.857)

Yeah.

Andrew (47:56.63)

Yeah, February 6th, but the pre-orders are open up until then. And there's... If you go to andrewhuang.com slash book, there's a bunch of bonuses and giveaways I'm doing for anybody who pre-orders. But yeah, it's coming out. I spent a couple years writing it. And I hope that it's going to be something that just gives a lot to anybody who's a creator. I just...

I had to unlock a whole lot of doors on my own and just figure things out and do a lot of things the wrong way. And I talk about all of that and I just want to... It's so gratifying to me. I got this especially from my online course, but also just from doing the videos that I do. When someone leaves a comment and they're like, I suddenly understand what this music theory stuff is or like...

you showed me how to finish songs or like anything like that. When I'm able to open a creative door for someone, it's so tremendously gratifying. And so I feel like with this book, it's going to be the deepest that I will ever be able to do that. You just can't fit all this kind of stuff into a YouTube video.

Brian Funk (48:55.071)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (49:03.97)

Sure. Well, think of how valuable that gift would be to you, you know, younger you, to get those doors open for you. So to think that you're doing that for people and probably so many people and most of whom you don't even hear from. It's a pretty good gift to humanity and to the arts.

Andrew (49:22.51)

Yeah, well, yeah, that's the hope. I think, yeah, I do often think about that. I think about the things, the questions that I had when I was a kid and the things I struggled with for years and years that some of them turned out like, oh, if I just thought about it this way, or if someone just showed me how to do this thing, like, it suddenly opened the door for all this other...

creative stuff that I could do or even just, you know, maybe even more importantly, like how I felt about my work or myself as an artist, like being comfortable doing things a bit differently or knowing that it is really difficult sometimes or like knowing that there are strategies when you're faced with whatever problem it is. Yeah, I think that that's what it's all about. And there's, I mean, we kind of touched on this before.

cool that we are able to communicate so directly and so much now so easily now where before you know just wasn't worth it to go through all the traditional distribution channels to let a kid know the settings on your compressor or you know something much deeper that it's okay to be different you know their bands not gonna put that in a press release

Brian Funk (50:38.59)

Right. I tell you, doing this podcast, I haven't had anyone tell me it's easy, you know, and as much as I don't want to wish that pain upon other people, it is comforting to know that everyone struggles with this stuff and whether it's sometimes it's the actual technical stuff, sometimes it's the mental stuff, it's around every corner there's some kind of challenge or lurking, you know, trying to get you and stop you and...

It's comforting to know people have gotten through them, people have found strategies to work, and it's nice to share something that might have worked for you, might really save somebody, might even save them from quitting and have them keep going. So it's hard to put a value on those kinds of gifts, really, that you're giving to people. So I think you're doing great work, Andrew. I love what you do, seriously. I'm very happy to get a chance to

Andrew (51:30.514)

Yeah. I appreciate that, man.

Brian Funk (51:36.446)

Talk to you, I've thought of you for a long time as a guest for this podcast. So your work means a lot to me and I know it means a lot to a lot of other people too.

Andrew (51:42.254)

Well yeah, thanks for having me.

Andrew (51:47.182)

I really appreciate that. Yeah, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed chatting.

Brian Funk (52:03.338)

Well, cool. I'm going to put links to for people to order the book for your YouTube, for your for your transit plugin with baby audio, which is sick. All that stuff. I got it all coming in the show notes. So if anyone wants to check that out, they can go there. And yeah, thanks so much.

Andrew (52:20.11)

Appreciate that. Yeah. I will be... I guess I'll just say that those things are all great to check out and I'm not putting out anything big after the book for a long time. So feel free to dig into those. Get a lot out of them because yeah, after the book, I'm going to lay low for a bit, I think. Maybe drop a bit of music here and there. Yeah.

Brian Funk (52:30.862)

Well, you deserve a break.

Brian Funk (52:37.994)

Yeah, you probably need to write a book or do something about writing a book now. The struggle is of digging it because that's a whole other world. All right. Cool, man. Well, thank you. And thank you for listening to the show. Have a great day. Thanks. Excellent. Thanks so much.

Andrew (52:46.382)

Oh man, yeah.

Andrew (52:51.862)

Thanks, Brian.

podcastBrian Funkmusic production podcast, Andrew huang