Chloe Echo is a singer/songwriter, producer, and educator originally from New Zealand and living in Los Angeles. She just released her new EP Past Life. Chloe teaches for Berklee Online.

Chloe and I got a chance to reconnect after meeting and writing music together at the Monterey Songwriting Retreat. She spoke about how her past has brought her to where she is now as a person and artist. We reflected on our songwriting sessions together and the lessons we both learned about collaboration and making ourselves vulnerable to write music with new people. 

Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, YouTube

Show Notes:

• Chloe Echo Website - https://chloeecho.com/

• Past Life by Chloe Echo - https://open.spotify.com/artist/2jM0dpaor5joc69oZ5SB9I?si=0SHfHYVETqG7z1gv-Iu3sQ

• Chloe's SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/chloeecho

• Dissect Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/2b025hq3gJ17tQdxS3aV43?si=23b02a86aae643e3

• Brian Funk Website - https://brianfunk.com

• Music Production Club - https://brianfunk.com/mpc 

• 5-Minute Music Producer - https://brianfunk.com/book

• Intro Music Made with 16-Bit Ableton Live Pack - https://brianfunk.com/blog/16-bit

• Music Production Podcast - https://brianfunk.com/podcast

• Save 25% on Ableton Live Packs at my store with the code: PODCAST - https://brianfunk.com/store

Thank you for listening. 

Please review the Music Production Podcast on your favorite podcast provider!

Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:15.431)

Hello and welcome to the music production podcast. I'm your host Brian Funk on today's show. I have Chloe Echo. Chloe is here to talk about some new music she's got that's come out. She's recently just changed her artist's name to Chloe echo. I got the pleasure to spend some time with her back in August at the Monterey songwriting retreat to that I've spoken about a few times on the show now, but Chloe was in my group. So we really got to know each other a little bit musically and we had a great time. She's an amazing artist, great singer, songwriter. She's teaching for Berklee Online now. Congratulations on that. And it's great to have you here, Chloe. Nice to see you again.

Chloe O'Brien (01:04.642)

Thank you so much, Brian. It's so good to get to join you and talk some shop. Stoked to be here.

Brian Funk (01:10.559)

Yeah. How have you been lately? Last few months.

Chloe O'Brien (01:14.478)

It's been good, it's been super busy since I saw you in August. I feel like, especially with the fall happening, everything kind of picks back up. I feel like summer was kind of more chill and then everything gets super busy again. I have just been making a lot of music and teaching and chugging along, it's been good.

Brian Funk (01:41.495)

Yeah, you've got the new album out, the new release, called The Moment, which is awesome, by the way. I love it, it's got a lot of great alternative rock to it, but also some more modern electronic production. Really cool production, too. The songs are great. It sounds really, really nice. Smooth and slick, but not overly polished. It still has some life to it.

Chloe O'Brien (01:44.682)

Yeah. Thank you.

Chloe O'Brien (01:57.11)

Thank you. Thanks so much.

Brian Funk (02:09.343)

It's a great balance. I'm really enjoying it. I think he did an awesome job with it.

Chloe O'Brien (02:09.384)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (02:13.538)

Thank you so much. Well, it was so much fun to make each of those songs and they're all mainly like co-produced and it was really fun to get to co-produce and produce my stuff for the first time. These five songs that are on there. There's one of them that was produced by a really great collaborator of mine. His name's Jacob McCaslin. He produced the song. It's the third song on the EP.

Called out of sight out of mind, but it's abbreviated In the title name and then that was a song that's pretty old and then all the rest of them were co-produced by myself and either Jacob or I have also a track on their break your heart that was had additional production by Noah Lubert and Stefan Loge Akumoh, so some co-production I love working with other people and

I'm proud of it, so thank you.

Brian Funk (03:14.931)

Yeah, that's cool that it has that about it. It's nice to get other insights into your music because other people see it from different angles that it's just impossible for us to get working on our own.

Chloe O'Brien (03:26.53)

Totally. Yeah, I think co-producing is one of those things that you wanna get your vision across as the artist, but at the same time, you can get into a feedback loop really easily if you're just producing it all by yourself. And having trusted collaborators has allowed me to explore things that I never could really do on my own. And it's also encouraged me to get better as a producer. And yeah, I love it. I love co-producing.

Brian Funk (03:57.865)

And you just said before we started recording that these songs come from like a period of time in the past, so they're not all completely new. But they're kind of like a collection of what you've done, because you're kind of taking this new direction now with all of your work.

Chloe O'Brien (04:09.046)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (04:14.994)

Yeah, yeah, I've had like a very winding road of a journey as an artist over the last few years. Yeah. So I act this is my third artist name. And third time's the charm, right? That's what they say. So I started releasing music in like 2016 using the name Chloe Jane. And that is my

Brian Funk (04:21.801)

Yeah, many of us do.

Brian Funk (04:33.726)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (04:43.358)

my actual first and middle name. And so that's where I put out an EP of kind of like more folk sounding folk rock stuff. I come from playing acoustic guitar and writing songs that way. Before I ever started producing or using Ableton, I was used to just writing on guitar. And so those first songs are really, it's really clear that that's where they come from.

Brian Funk (04:45.964)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (05:11.946)

And I put out an EPS, Chloe Jane, and then I ran into some issues with trademark and problems with another person called Chloe Jane, me kind of being young, not really knowing what to do about that. I was like, well, can I tell them that I use the name first and da da, but.

Brian Funk (05:23.741)

Oh no.

Chloe O'Brien (05:38.626)

I found out that her family was very powerful music industry family. So I was like, OK, well, can just start something fresh and like eliminate that problem of having to compete with somebody else using the same name. I was just kind of like, OK, I want to start something else. So when I graduated from college.

Brian Funk (05:46.203)

Oh wow. Okay. Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (06:05.182)

I decided to change my name to Nia Jane, which is my great grandma's name. Her name is Nia and then my grandma's name is Jane and my middle name is Jane. So it was a family name. It was really meaningful to me to get to use the name Nia and it worked really well for a few years.

and I put out an album and a bunch of singles as Nia Jane and some music videos and like was really active gigging and things like that. I was living in Boston for the majority of the time that I was using that name. And then I kind of just during COVID, you know,

Chloe O'Brien (06:52.297)

Anytime you start a sentence with during COVID, you know it's going to be like some like big life change, but...

Brian Funk (06:54.023)

Right. Well, we all had that time to look inward.

Chloe O'Brien (07:02.362)

Yeah, totally. So that for sure happened for me. And I think it kind of coincided with just a natural life transition for me. I was like 25 and I don't know. I think that that's just a time of life where you feel like you're going from.

the lifestyle of being in college and kind of your early 20s living on your own, not necessarily like going to school anymore, beginning your like journey as a working person and figuring out what you're gonna do in that realm of life. So I think that transition, sorry, I just hit my microphone. That transition for me was kind of like.

It was kind of challenging. So I was doing a lot of soul searching on what do I wanna do with my music? Why am I doing this? Why do I wanna keep doing this? Because it's not always the easiest road to be an artist. But it doesn't really feel like a choice that much either. It's kind of like.

when you wanna do it and you're called to it, you kinda just do it. You don't really, I don't know, for me at least, it's never really felt like, oh, maybe I'm an artist, maybe I should try it. It's more just kind of always been something that I wanted, that I loved, that felt like a part of who I am. So I was asking myself, why? Why do I care so much about this? Why do I love it? Why do I wanna do it? Even though it means that...

you face kind of an uncertain future, there's no real road laid out in front of you of okay, do this, and then you'll be successful. It's very much just try and keep going and see what happens and just kind of pivot as you go. And yeah, I think that as a lot of artists, I kind of realized that

Brian Funk (09:06.211)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (09:14.078)

A lot of the reason why I was putting music out was because I wanted to share and I wanted to connect with others, but there was also a part of me that felt really strongly like I wanted to prove to everyone who doubted me that I could make it. And that to me stopped being motivating past a certain point. And I kind of felt like...

this isn't fun for me right now anymore. Because I think I cared a lot too much about the numbers and if it was gonna be successful and comparing myself to my peers, other people who were doing similar things to me and thinking, ugh, why is there so much more successful than mine?

Brian Funk (10:06.508)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (10:11.044)

Yeah, right.

Chloe O'Brien (10:11.978)

right, successful in air quotes, because I had to, yeah, you kind of have to decide on your own what success means. So I kind of went through this whole ego death of like, okay, why am I even doing this? This isn't fun for me right now. I was focusing way too much on like the marketing and how do I run ads and learning a lot about just social media marketing and I got pretty burnt out.

Brian Funk (10:14.443)

Mm-hmm, whatever that definition is, yeah.

Brian Funk (10:23.979)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (10:40.718)

and decided to take a break from releasing music. And this was like 2000, well, like in 2020 through like 2022, really. So I had a few songs that were already done at that point that I put out during those few years that I really kind of took a pause on, worrying about promo and that kind of thing. And...

It was a very healing time of just making music for fun and not really caring what it was gonna be or what was gonna happen. And I kept telling myself, don't try to figure out what this is for. Don't try to figure out if it's gonna be catchy enough or if people are gonna like it. Don't worry about that. Just make the music and everything else will kind of.

reveal itself when you have some music. So I really dove in to producing, making new songs, just making random stuff, not even caring if it was good or bad, not even really thinking about that, just making things because I wanted to get back in touch with my actual why, which is that that's how I make sense of the world by.

Brian Funk (12:06.37)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (12:06.866)

making art and making music. And that's how I express my feelings. That's how I aim to connect with other people. So I really dove into just making music for music's sake for a few years. And long story coming to the present. Basically I decided, okay, I wanna go by my actual name again.

I want people to be able to call me Chloe. If I'm up on stage, I want to be able to say, hi, I'm Chloe, and that's my name. It seems like a simple thing, but it was something that I had really missed when I was going by Nia Jane. I really wanted to just introduce myself as Chloe. And I think that after that kind of long period of not really...

Brian Funk (12:43.685)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (13:02.294)

being concerned with presentation, putting things out, getting numbers, whatever, kind of just letting that fall away for a while, I kind of found myself feeling like it would be a really good time for just a fresh start because I was pretty low-key on the internet. So it was, felt like good timing to start something new. And so that's what I'm doing. So I...

Brian Funk (13:25.964)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (13:32.93)

changed everything over and I released an EP under Chloe Echo called Past Life. And that EP is made up of five songs that I released as Nia Jane. It's four of the most recent singles and then one song from my album that came out in 2019. So those five songs are songs that were already released, but I felt like

because I had already really poured so much of myself into these songs that I really cared about, I wanted to be able to take them with me when I start this new chapter of my artistic journey. And I also, you know, didn't wanna abandon those songs. They meant a lot to me. So I kind of felt like, well, let's just take a few and put them out and establish this new project. And then...

Hopefully that can set the groundwork for the new music that I've made over the last couple of years.

Brian Funk (14:40.323)

That's a great title for your record too, Past Life. And it's a cool first release, Past Life, kind of almost feels like something you would do after you had a bunch of things going, but it shows that you did have a bunch of things going. It's pretty interesting what you said too, how you get caught up in the numbers and what's all these different measurements of what success is. And

Chloe O'Brien (14:44.111)

Thank you.

Chloe O'Brien (14:47.791)

haha

Chloe O'Brien (14:53.268)

Right?

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (15:08.503)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (15:09.111)

They creep on you, right? Like first it's like, okay, well, how many plays did I get? Oh, cool. And then you start looking at another one and another one. And next thing you know, you're checking like every day and you're looking all the time. And the time where you would be making your art is figuring that stuff out. How do I raise the numbers instead of raising the art and making that stuff better? And I think when you, what you said too about like comparing yourself to others, I mean, everybody does that.

Chloe O'Brien (15:16.118)

Yep.

Yep.

Chloe O'Brien (15:29.923)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Brian Funk (15:39.095)

But what I've started to realize myself is I'm not like playing on a level of playing field, I guess is what I'm trying to say, where I might say, well, they sing better than me and they write a better melody. And it's always this changing thing where I'm never getting like a fair shake in these comparisons because you're taking the best aspects of everyone else that you see around you. And

You just can't ever live up to that. And the thing is it's not a competition anyway. It's not what the point of it all is.

Chloe O'Brien (16:14.702)

Totally.

Yeah, 100%. And I think that I had to step away from it for a while in order to really kind of see that for real. And to be able to find joy in just making music and see that made my life feel really fulfilling and really exciting. And I was really happy. And it had nothing to do at all with what people said about it online, if I got a lot of plays, whatever like

It was not a competition. It was just I want to make something cool. And now I'm enjoying my life because I'm spending a lot of my time making cool things that I like. So it was really important to kind of just let that all go for a while. Like. A couple of years, legit, like I just didn't want to participate. And I think that.

that was really healing and set me up to hopefully not fall into those same traps of social comparison. Again, you're right. You do compare yourself. You compare the things that you're most insecure about to the things that you admire in other people. And other people are doing that to you. It's just you you're never going to actually.

be able to win if that's the game that you're playing because everybody will see different things you might feel really insecure about one thing but that somebody else is really good at but then that person feels insecure about something that you're really good at and it's just like you can't compare it doesn't work

Brian Funk (17:59.551)

Right. Yeah. We're all like that. It's like, if you ever talk to these people, they would say the same thing about you. They'd be like, Oh, but I always looked at what you're doing and it makes me feel like I don't know what I'm doing and vice versa. It's, it's part of the thing we do, I guess, you know, just those vulnerabilities and

Chloe O'Brien (18:12.015)

Yeah. Yep, it's.

Chloe O'Brien (18:18.282)

Yeah, yeah, it really is. And I think that if we can understand that that's kind of fake and that social media, the way that you like compare yourself to other people on social media, especially comparing numbers, that is not real. Like the numbers are not real. It's not real life. And I think that eventually, you know, it does make a difference.

in terms of what you do for your job. At some point, the numbers do kind of.

quote, matter a little bit, but honestly, not really that much. Like you could see somebody who you think has a ton of success, oh, their numbers are so high, and then they're looking at the person who has more than them saying the same thing. And then you even have like, yeah, it's never done. And then you see even big artists like paying for bought-in streams because they think that the bigger artists, they wanna be

Brian Funk (19:09.14)

Yeah, there's no enough.

Brian Funk (19:18.65)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (19:23.158)

the bigger artist, you know? Like even at the top of the industry that's happening, people are getting jealous of each other. So I just kind of feel like if you can eliminate that comparison game with the numbers, you'll be more fulfilled. Cause it really, I don't know if it'll ever be enough. Yeah.

Brian Funk (19:37.912)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (19:42.315)

Yeah, it's a moving target. It's constantly on the horizon. It's always out of reach.

Chloe O'Brien (19:48.53)

And how long do you spend being stoked about reaching one of the milestones? If you say, oh, I want to get X amount of plays and then you get it like for maybe like five minutes, you're like, yay, I did this cool. And then instantly after that, you're like, OK, well, now I have to get this other song to the same amount of plays. And but all my songs don't have that. And oh, but I need to come up with a new it's just you can you can go down a really bad rabbit hole with that. And I think for me, the only way to stop that.

Brian Funk (19:54.346)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (19:59.079)

Yeah, right.

Brian Funk (20:11.617)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (20:18.366)

was by just stepping kind of away from all of it and just focusing on making music for a while. And it was, I think it was the right choice.

Brian Funk (20:30.851)

Hmm. It becomes one of those things where you're like the fish that doesn't know that it's in water and you're just surrounded by the stuff and you kind of do need to come out of that. I've had that a few times in my life for various reasons where I've questioned it, like, what am I doing? And just trivialized it, like making these stupid sounds and these stupid songs. And it's meanwhile, like other people are doing more important things and you could be doing something that actually contributes.

Chloe O'Brien (20:41.527)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (21:00.439)

But it seems like whenever I get down those paths, it's kind of the music itself that brings me back out of it. It's always what I turn to anyway. And I had a similar thing, lockdown, where I had some time to myself to do it, and it was kind of fun at first, but then the world started getting crazier and crazier, and what I was doing felt sillier and sillier to the point where I was like...

Chloe O'Brien (21:08.927)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (21:24.018)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (21:29.087)

It felt so frivolous.

Chloe O'Brien (21:30.766)

Ugh, yeah. Sometimes it can feel like that for sure. Like, what am I doing? I'm just making little songs in my room. Like, what is this doing for the greater good? But, you know, yeah. But I don't know, I think about the times when I've had.

Brian Funk (21:43.054)

I can feel like nothing but...

Chloe O'Brien (21:50.478)

really important emotional realizations because of somebody else's song that I listened to, like my favorite songs that have really impacted me, like have genuinely made my life better. And I think that's impactful, right? So I do think that music has an impact, even if it feels sometimes like all I'm doing is boop bopping around pressing buttons. And like, I do think that it helps us connect with other people.

Brian Funk (22:15.027)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (22:20.883)

Yeah, I think maybe it might help other people, but if nothing else, it makes me less of a stressed out asshole. And that has a ripple effect somewhere along the way where you're nicer to others and stuff just because you're feeling a little better.

Chloe O'Brien (22:29.614)

Yeah, and that's good for the greater good too. Yeah.

Definitely. Yeah, it's so true. I have this little sign on my wall over there that says, oh, I don't have my glasses on, I can't read it. It says, yeah, it says, to bring peace to the earth, strive to make your own life more peaceful. And it's a good place to start.

Brian Funk (22:52.923)

That's good you have a sign so you can look at it once in a while.

Brian Funk (23:08.531)

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's where you have the most power, right? You can't always... And you look at this for like streams and numbers too, and you can't control that stuff, but you can control yourself more. You can put that work into it and that might make a difference. It might lead to examples for others. Who knows?

Chloe O'Brien (23:17.006)

Yeah. Nah.

Chloe O'Brien (23:24.046)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (23:31.502)

Yeah, I don't know. We don't really know what effect we have on other people, but I think if you put out positivity and good music that you're proud of, and you're feeling good, somebody else is probably gonna like it too, hopefully. And you never know. Yeah.

Brian Funk (23:50.387)

Yeah. I think there's enough people in the world where there might be someone that relates that, or at least picks up on that vibe. And I can't tell you how many weird little things people have said in passing that they definitely wouldn't remember, that have just stuck with me and had impressions. And I'm sure we're all doing that every step of the way. Little thing you say, like somebody just holds on to it for some reason.

Chloe O'Brien (23:58.254)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (24:09.198)

Yes.

Chloe O'Brien (24:15.118)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (24:20.334)

Yeah, that's actually a great concept for a song.

Brian Funk (24:24.459)

Yeah, right. That's something I like about you. You think about that a lot. And that was something we got to experience back in August when we were writing. It was you and me and Matt. We did a lot of... It was a really cool way to approach it, I thought, that we kind of sat down. I knew Matt from class, from the Berkeley class. But...

Chloe O'Brien (24:39.598)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (24:53.907)

I didn't know you, and I only really knew Matt online. I might have spoken to him on the phone once or twice in the Berkeley online classes. So it was really nice that we kind of just slowed down at first and just kind of talked about things and where were we in our lives, what was going on. And it allowed these bigger concepts to kind of come out rather than just.

Chloe O'Brien (24:55.022)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (25:03.278)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (25:10.894)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (25:21.358)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (25:22.507)

We're going to make a song all mechanically and just kind of pump something out.

Chloe O'Brien (25:27.374)

Totally, I really appreciated that too. It was really great. It's hard when you get into a room with people you don't know, you don't know how that's gonna go. I've had it go.

really great and I think that what we experienced was something that was really awesome and super synchronized. All of us kind of were able to connect with each other and get on the same page about what we wanted to do. And it was super collaborative. I never would have made that song on my own, which I love. I love that we were able to come together and create something that was really like,

Brian Funk (26:04.075)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (26:09.422)

a combo of all of our tastes and ideas and it was really fun. So I feel like it's pretty special when you get to meet new people and work on something that you're all passionate about and you don't know them. It's just it's really unique experience.

Brian Funk (26:32.711)

Yeah, it's an interesting way to get to know people too, because these parts start kind of unfolding before your eyes. And it might be in a lyric, it might be in just a chord choice or something rhythmic even. Or just a comment just about feedback, whether they liked what happened or not. And you get a sense of the kind of people we all are and how we approach these things. And

Chloe O'Brien (26:35.886)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (26:46.286)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (26:50.606)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (26:58.094)

Yep.

Brian Funk (27:00.479)

You're right. It is hard to find that. There's just so much that goes into it, right? So many different things. There's egos, there's vulnerabilities, insecurities, there's all of that. But I think what we were able to do anyway was just kind of drop all that stuff, which I think is the only way, unless you're going to just muscle yourself, your ideas onto other

Chloe O'Brien (27:22.19)

Totally.

Chloe O'Brien (27:26.67)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (27:30.431)

Otherwise, nothing really happens. It's a very stressful situation.

Chloe O'Brien (27:36.814)

Yeah, I was really stoked that we were all able to kind of just find a place to meet in the middle. We spent one day working in Matt's condo by the beach, and that day, I think...

was just so special. Like the fact that we were all able to kind of do our own thing and trust each other that I trust that what you're working on is gonna be the perfect addition and it's gonna have your little flavor. And then what we all did, we kind of were working on our own computers with headphones on and sitting and with the ocean air coming in, it was so like idyllic.

Brian Funk (28:19.65)

Hehehe

Chloe O'Brien (28:21.584)

and beautiful and then we didn't know what each other was doing. I've never worked like that before.

Brian Funk (28:28.427)

Yeah, me neither. That was the first for me too.

Chloe O'Brien (28:30.99)

It was really cool. I really enjoyed it because it totally showed that, even though we'd only known each other, what, like two days at that point, that we were able to let go of control and trust each other to have our own identity and put our own fingerprints on the track. And then when we put everything together and listened to it, it sounded so cool. I was really happy with how it turned out. And yeah, that was a first for me to work like that.

Brian Funk (28:54.527)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (29:00.907)

Yeah, it was almost like if we were doing something remotely where one person does something and they send it off and then you wait and you get it back. Except the only difference was all three of us were in the same room with headphones on different laptops, working on the same session that we would ultimately have to somehow combine, which you did all the hard work on that, which was great. Thank you. And, but it was a really fun feeling. Just.

Chloe O'Brien (29:06.414)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (29:09.966)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (29:17.87)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Chloe O'Brien (29:24.75)

No worries.

Brian Funk (29:30.047)

And this is kind of the vibe to just being around the other groups, the other people. And I think anytime you're with a bunch of creative people is that there's this energy of things happening and there's work getting done. And even when you hit your low and you're kind of, this always happens to me after a certain amount of time, I feel either drained or like, I don't know what to do. And you look around and everyone's still going and you're like, okay, that's cool. It gets you more excited again.

Chloe O'Brien (29:41.838)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (29:49.87)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (29:56.302)

Yep.

Yeah, totally, it's motivating. And when you take a break to go get a snack or something like that and you see other people in their creative head space and working on things like.

Brian Funk (30:01.676)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (30:13.39)

it's motivating in the most wholesome way, where it's like, oh, this is so fun, look, everyone's enjoying themselves, like I wanna do that too. So I don't know, it's rare to get the chance. I mean, that was a full week where for five days we were all able to lay our other responsibilities at the door and just say, okay, we're here for five days and we're committed to making something with these people that.

We don't know. I think some people knew each other, but yeah. But I didn't know a single person. Like I barely knew Matt. So it was completely out of my comfort zone. I'm so used to writing by myself. I have written most of my songs by myself. So yeah, I really only have a few songs that are co-writes that I've released under my own projects.

Brian Funk (30:44.299)

Yeah, a few, yeah.

Brian Funk (30:48.748)

Right.

Brian Funk (30:58.111)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (31:11.342)

So for me doing like co-writing is, it comes less naturally to me than just writing a song by myself does. But it pushes me to go out of my comfort zone to be vulnerable. I wonder what the hardest part about it is. And I feel like honestly, it is like learning how to air my ideas even if I'm not sure about them yet to other people.

Brian Funk (31:19.708)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (31:41.038)

like that process is nerve-wracking because if I'm by myself if I don't like my idea whatever it doesn't really matter I'll just get it out there anyways and then see what happens and nobody else will ever see it if I don't like it but if you're with other people you know you have to be comfortable sharing things that are not polished and being like a raw version of yourself that's unedited and that is

Brian Funk (31:41.184)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (32:04.451)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (32:09.806)

the true you just letting your ideas flow and trusting that the people that you're with are gonna accept you and listen to your idea and if it's good awesome and if it's not the right idea then you can trust your collaborators to tell you that in a gentle way hopefully but also sometimes not in a gentle way which happens sometimes and that's okay too but

Brian Funk (32:32.32)

Thank you.

Chloe O'Brien (32:40.238)

Yeah, I think that is something that has been challenging for me.

Brian Funk (32:44.811)

Hmm. It's a good exercise in itself, right? Like just getting comfortable in those situations to throw yourself in these positions where you do have to put yourself out there. And it's a great way you put it where you're not even sure if you like your idea yet. You kind of need to see if it sticks yourself. And that's it's much better when, you know, it's much more comfortable and you're like, I know this is a great idea. But in those moments when you're putting things together on the spot out of nothing,

Chloe O'Brien (32:48.174)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (33:00.078)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (33:08.494)

Yes, yes.

Chloe O'Brien (33:14.766)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (33:15.135)

You kind of have to get to the point where you can just say things and let things go and let a stupid idea out of your mind and not be too worried about it. There's a point, I don't know exactly when it happened, but I could feel it happen where it was like going to be okay. You know, after we were talking for a while, I realized like, all right, this is going to be okay. Like, we're going to be able to work on something here. And

Chloe O'Brien (33:20.782)

Yeah.

Yes.

Yep.

Chloe O'Brien (33:36.686)

Yep.

Chloe O'Brien (33:40.494)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (33:43.703)

Those are always my favorite kind of collaborations when I'm with people where you know that they already accept you for your, whatever it is you're gonna contribute at on any level. Like they're just, okay, we know we wanna work together. We're choosing to be with each other in this project. And then you can just kind of not worry and not feel bad if one of your ideas either doesn't land with everyone else or.

Chloe O'Brien (33:56.398)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (34:13.899)

turns out to be a bad direction. It's like you're not your ideas, you have to separate yourself from that. And that can be tricky, because they represent you in a way, but they aren't you.

Chloe O'Brien (34:16.974)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (34:22.414)

Totally, yeah. Yeah, I think they aren't, yeah. And for me at least, the more that I've written, the easier it is to separate myself from my ideas. My own like personhood is not all of my ideas because like our brains are wild. We have so many thoughts every single day and like.

You're gonna have so many ideas and like a fraction of them are gonna be ideas that you actually end up wanting to polish and finish and use. So I think, yeah, after just making a lot of things and seeing that sometimes it's not great and it's fine and I'm still a human being, like.

there's no real huge consequences of coming up with something that you don't like. You might as well just let it flow, let that idea happen, and then not take it too seriously if you end up being like, no, I'm not sure about that. I have this one demo that I was working on.

And I think I'm gonna finish it, but I have to change some lyrics because there's this one moment where I say sparks in the sky. But it really sounds like I'm saying Spocks. And I'm like, okay, this idea, it's not landing. It sounds like I'm saying Spock. This is not a song about Star Trek. So I think that I've got to change it. And like.

Brian Funk (35:55.022)

You might get good numbers from the audience of Trekkies out there.

Chloe O'Brien (35:56.942)

You never know, but I wouldn't be super popular with them because I don't really know anything about Star Trek. It's like, yeah, I feel like, yeah, they're gonna have some sort of like obscure reference and I'm like, I have no idea what that is, sorry. So I think that, you know, just being able to have a sense of humor too when you come up with things, you're like, yeah, no, that's not the vibe, but that's okay. And.

Brian Funk (36:05.099)

Yeah, they'd find you out fast. She's not real.

Brian Funk (36:25.036)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (36:25.998)

It's kind of fun. I don't know. It's kind of fun to have those things where you're like, yeah, no, this isn't going to work. It's part of it.

Brian Funk (36:34.483)

Yeah, and it's funny too, because sometimes it's a decent idea for another situation. You know, you can always save it. You can always maybe think about it later or, or even just being cool with letting it go and not feeling as if every idea is somehow from some finite container that you're pulling from and, oh, I better use this or else I'm going to be out soon.

Chloe O'Brien (36:46.766)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (36:58.926)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (37:04.131)

Because as soon as I started thinking that way, especially playing in a band where I have a cool guitar riff but no one wants me to play it, instead of getting mad, you could either save it or just say, well, I can come up with another cool one. There's more. There's no end to it really until I stop doing it.

Chloe O'Brien (37:14.734)

Ha ha ha.

Chloe O'Brien (37:19.438)

Yeah, totally.

Yep, 100%, it's infinite. You can always keep writing. Sometimes I feel like you have to write a concept a few times, write the same song a few times before you get to the one that you've been trying to get to. And so I've done that a bunch where I have Frankenstein songs where it's like, I wrote this one song and the verse, there's two lines in the verse that I really, really love.

Brian Funk (37:38.924)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (37:52.814)

but I just couldn't really find a chorus that was making me feel what I wanted to feel. And then maybe six months later, I write another song and that chorus is really cool and makes me think, oh yeah, there was that song I wrote you know, a while ago that I didn't use, but I really liked that verse and you can kind of put them together. I've done that a bunch. The moment.

Brian Funk (37:59.607)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (38:22.414)

actually is a great example of that. I wrote that guitar riff in Sweden in a guitar shop when I was traveling with my friend Jacob. He's my collaborator for like eight years now. We've worked together so much and yeah, I love working with him. He's a great songwriter and producer. And so we were traveling, we were in Sweden. I wrote this guitar riff and...

I don't know, I didn't have my guitar with me, so it was kind of like you just remember it if you remember it and then leave. And then when I got back, I remember writing a song for that riff. It was like not sold, but I really liked that riff. Like I really, really liked it, but I didn't necessarily feel like that was the right song for that riff.

Brian Funk (38:56.256)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (39:09.664)

Mm.

Chloe O'Brien (39:15.438)

and this was in like 2017. So this has been a long time since that. And then maybe in 2019, I wrote another song for it. That still kind of wasn't it, but I still knew, I was like, I know I'm gonna use this riff, but I just really want the song to be like matching it because I really liked it. I thought I just want the song to be.

Brian Funk (39:20.834)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (39:43.502)

as good as I know that I can make it. And I had this little like, at that time I was kind of beginning my existential crisis. So I had this melody that I kept kind of singing to myself, kind of just like a self soothing thing. Sometimes I do that where I have a little like tune that's like helps me when I'm in a certain mood and this one I was like.

I was having a lot of anxiety and worrying a lot about what my future was going to look like and what I was going to do. I was like very much the quarter life crisis moment of like transitioning into adulthood. And I kept kind of singing this little...

Settle into the moment. It was like, going in my head and I would sing it to myself. And there was a day where I was like, huh, I wonder if I sang that little melody that's just been for me to comfort myself. What happens if I combine that with this guitar riff that's like this homeless riff that I wrote five years ago, or not five years ago at that point. Now it's been that like five years, but.

Like six years, yeah. So it took me like five years to write that song. Not actively, but because it was fragmented ideas that ultimately it took me five years to come up with all of the right components and put them together. And sometimes it's a longer process than you anticipate.

Brian Funk (41:07.788)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (41:30.647)

Hmm. Yeah, that's a cool riff too. And I remember when you played that at the performance night at the songwriting retreat. And there are a couple of people like, that's a cool guitar part, you know, when you started playing that. Cause it's got like some funny notes. It's in a unusual key, right? So it's got some, and I think you even do like a little bending on the strings and kind of weird places.

Chloe O'Brien (41:43.758)

Hahaha.

Chloe O'Brien (41:51.374)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (41:55.758)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (41:59.143)

It's cool that stuck with you and like kind of stayed in your orbit. And meanwhile, this other thing was kind of there too. And one day they kind of aligned for you. You just held on to it.

Chloe O'Brien (42:07.79)

Yeah. Yeah, it's weird how that happens. And thank you. Yeah, I like I like that riff. I kind of just. Thank you.

Brian Funk (42:16.723)

Yeah, it's cool. It's a cool guitar part. It's like one of those guitar parts like you want to learn. Like, oh cool, let me learn how to play that. You know, and I love that as a guitar player. Like, it's always fun when you hear something that you want to figure it out. You want to like understand how it works, you know.

Chloe O'Brien (42:21.422)

Oh, that's awesome.

Chloe O'Brien (42:29.87)

Yeah, totally. When I was a teenager, I was obsessed with Weezer because I felt like they had a lot of little guitar parts like that. And so it's very like, I really like the Blue album. I think that's probably my favorite record of theirs. I know it's like kind of hipster to say that, but it's true. Yeah, Pinkerton as well.

Brian Funk (42:37.556)

uh... detail

Brian Funk (42:41.54)

Do you have a favorite record of theirs?

Brian Funk (42:46.557)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (42:52.359)

I love the first two. I'd probably say Pinkerton, but the blue album for me was when I heard that, I was like, oh, this is the kind of music I like. I was like 14 when that came out and I was just learning guitar and I was learning a lot of like...

Chloe O'Brien (43:08.75)

Yes. Yeah.

Brian Funk (43:16.687)

normal stuff you learn on guitar. I was learning tons of Nirvana. I loved Nirvana at that time in my life and I still do. But it was very angsty and it was great for that. And a lot of the guitar stuff I was learning was very medley and just cool riffs, Pantera, Metallica, stuff like that. That's just fun to play when you're on guitar. But when I heard Weezer and just heard those melodies, they were like nursery rhymes almost that I like...

Chloe O'Brien (43:21.358)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (43:28.526)

Yep.

Yes.

Chloe O'Brien (43:37.198)

Yep.

Chloe O'Brien (43:41.678)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (43:45.326)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (43:46.359)

but for a teenager, you know? And I just like saw it at that point. I was like, oh, it was a pretty big moment actually that record. And then when Pinkerton came out, it was just like, wow, it goes even deeper and further.

Chloe O'Brien (43:48.078)

Yes, totally.

Chloe O'Brien (43:54.382)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (43:57.934)

That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. Like the way that they're able to have such simple songs, simple melodies and really like straightforward, like expository lyrics. It was just really inspiring for me as well as a teenager. I remember listening to Weezer and being like, oh, this is so cool. Like,

Brian Funk (44:30.01)

Mm.

Chloe O'Brien (44:31.15)

the undone, the sweater song. Oh my gosh, what, like such a cool song, so weird, like, and yeah.

Brian Funk (44:35.181)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (44:41.115)

I saw a band, a high school band when I was in high school, they were the older kids, they were like the seniors and they covered that at the talent show. And I would just started playing guitar and I'm like, oh my God, like, I can make a band. You know, like you get this, you start realizing this and you're seeing like people, I see in the hallways doing it and they were playing that song. And I was just like, holy cow. Like the whole, like the clouds parted and everything. It was such a cool.

Chloe O'Brien (44:48.75)

That's awesome.

Chloe O'Brien (44:56.846)

Yes!

Chloe O'Brien (45:05.966)

Yeah.

Yes.

Brian Funk (45:10.807)

It's a cool moment.

Chloe O'Brien (45:12.206)

Oh, that's so awesome. I definitely can relate. I had that same experience of being like, you can write songs, you can be in a band. And that was, I mean, Weezer is like one of the bands that made me want to play rock music and kind of never went away. So shout out to Weezer.

Brian Funk (45:32.747)

Hmm. Yeah. And you know, we were saying you don't know what your little ripples are in life. Like those dudes that were in that band in high school, they have no idea that I still think about that. You know, it was just powerful like watching those kids just a few years older, you know. It's like...

Chloe O'Brien (45:40.078)

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's so awesome.

Chloe O'Brien (45:51.95)

Yeah, it's ignites a fire in you.

Brian Funk (45:56.479)

Yeah, I think I can do that.

Chloe O'Brien (45:59.278)

So cool, so cool. Yeah, that was a very inspiring record. I loved it. And the guitar parts on it still, if you listen to it, they're super cool, very melodic, simple, kind of, I don't know, they just don't like make things too complicated.

Brian Funk (46:19.531)

Yeah, and he can play. Rivers, like he was like a metal shredder type of player. So he really just held back on that, which is really cool that you can have that restraint to understand what the songs are supposed to do. But they also had that thing too, where they were like the anti-rock star kind of thing, where they weren't cool. You know, they were nerdy.

Chloe O'Brien (46:21.902)

Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (46:29.294)

Yep.

Chloe O'Brien (46:35.246)

Yes. Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (46:44.526)

Yeah, they were nerdy. Yeah.

Brian Funk (46:47.343)

And it kind of made you feel like, yeah, I'm not Slash. I couldn't walk around in that hat with curly hair and only wearing a leather vest. That just doesn't work. But damn, it was more approachable. It was something you could kind of see yourself as.

Chloe O'Brien (46:50.126)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (47:00.078)

Totally.

Chloe O'Brien (47:05.998)

Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I loved it. I was all about it. And I also loved Muse. That was like the other band that made me wanna make music. I was so obsessed. And Paramore. I wanted to be Hayley Williams so badly. So those were like probably the three bands that inspired me the most as a teenager. Yep.

Brian Funk (47:24.583)

Uh huh. Yeah.

Brian Funk (47:29.907)

Right, yeah, and they have a lot of that melodic stuff going on. But I guess the other two bring in some more electronic kind of production stuff to the songs. Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (47:36.846)

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, Muse is like such a weird band. If you listen to their like journey from making more like radio heady kind of early radio head. Guitar rock to kind of. Then they even had like dubstep at a certain point, which was so out of left field. Yeah.

Brian Funk (47:43.966)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (48:00.079)

Oh really? I didn't know that.

Chloe O'Brien (48:02.83)

Yeah, it's so strange, but super cool. And I was obsessed, but I think, you know, throughout all of my early years making music and kind of getting exposed to things that made me wanna write songs, the common thread throughout all of it for sure is.

like melody, having really beautiful melodic parts in the production, having really simple yet evocative vocal melodies, like that will always get me. And sometimes I listen back to songs that.

Brian Funk (48:22.615)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (48:38.734)

I loved as a teenager when I first started playing guitar and I first started writing songs. And I notice now like, okay, yeah, this checks out because these songs are using melodies that I would still hear this song and think, oh, wow, that melody is awesome. And back then I didn't really have the terminology to explain why I liked it. It was just kind of like, it made me feel something. So I think...

Brian Funk (48:49.655)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (48:56.183)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (49:08.494)

that's definitely a common thread of something that matters a lot to me when I listen to music, but also when I make my own music is having beautiful melodies, vocal melodies, but also I really love melodic production choices. And like, I'm super obsessed with the idea of like something that can be really simple.

but can be really emotional. Like that's always the goal. How do you make it simple and also feel like it makes me think about things or feel things or like it just feels fresh or interesting, but also very simple. That's like extremely challenging.

Brian Funk (49:39.183)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (49:55.091)

Yeah. It's, it's tough to find that. Um, I often try to impress myself, you know, with like clever chord changes or something like that. And then listen to like some of my favorite music. And most of it's really simple, maybe with a little twist here and there. It doesn't take much to take something simple to a new level. And it's always when I let go of that, when I stop trying.

Chloe O'Brien (50:03.342)

Yes. Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (50:16.494)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (50:24.987)

And I just allow it, it's kind of like you said, like allow it to be bad, allow it to be silly, but also allow it to be simple. And then you can bring the complexity and you can like change that to a major chord instead of a minor chord where it's supposed to be. And suddenly you've got something pretty complex. Couple little tweaks of that simple idea.

Chloe O'Brien (50:37.486)

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Totally, yeah, I'm kind of, I'm obsessed with making things that technically on paper look kind of complicated, like weird key changes, and using chords that are not in the key that technically should not work, but finding ways to do weird things, especially harmonically and with your chord progressions that are not quote, correct, but that,

sound really cool. I feel like that to me is where things get really evocative is when it surprises you in a way but keeping it rooted in catchiness and something that can make us feel just stable too. I really like towing that line between like is this too weird or does it work and it's just

Brian Funk (51:35.82)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (51:45.262)

still accessible. So I love playing around with that kind of thing.

Brian Funk (51:49.699)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I noticed that in your playing, especially watching you play. When you hear the record, you can hear stuff's going on. But when I can see where your fingers are going on the guitar, it's much easier for me to tell. But you had a couple really cool things. There was one song that you played that I think I said to you, I wanted you to show me the chords, but we never got around to it. It was just really. And the funny thing was, though, you

Chloe O'Brien (52:01.87)

Hahaha

Chloe O'Brien (52:11.854)

Oh, yeah.

Brian Funk (52:20.111)

surprising chords as far as the key goes, but it felt like I kind of almost knew it was coming even though I couldn't tell you what you were doing just because it was, it just fits so well too. It wasn't complexity for the sake of complexity. It also served the song really well and it just took you through that emotion that you were going for in the song. It's cool stuff.

Chloe O'Brien (52:29.134)

haha

Chloe O'Brien (52:39.534)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (52:45.39)

I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I am glad to hear that that's how it comes across because that's like, that's something that I definitely really like to play around with is using things in a kind of a weird way that is not in the key, but making it feel like it flows.

Brian Funk (52:53.889)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (53:10.67)

naturally, not like saying, Hey, look at this weird thing I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go do something crazy. Like, how can you do something kind of weird without really drawing too much attention to it and just making it feel like it's, of course, the song would go there. I really like playing with that. It's a lot of fun for me. And honestly,

Brian Funk (53:27.764)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (53:34.062)

Most of the time when that happens, it's not me being like, I'm gonna go to the parallel Dorian. Like I'm usually not actively thinking about that stuff. Most of the time it's just, let me put my hands on this instrument and not know what I'm gonna do and then use my ears to figure out what sounds cool and.

Brian Funk (53:41.657)

Right.

Chloe O'Brien (54:00.366)

sometimes it's in the key and sometimes it's not in the key. And then I kind of like those happy accidents of like, I didn't really try to make it that weird, but it ends up being kind of weird just because that's where it wanted to go.

Brian Funk (54:13.623)

Mm-hmm.

Right. That's cool. I get that happening sometimes, especially when I play with the band, the three-piece rock band I have. Because we always write together. I don't bring ideas, nobody brings ideas to the band. We just play and when something starts to happen, we're like, okay, we might have something. It's like you're fishing and like, oh, something's on the line and you can kind of see the look in each other's eyes.

Chloe O'Brien (54:22.446)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (54:28.846)

Nice.

Chloe O'Brien (54:40.398)

Yes.

Brian Funk (54:45.335)

then you're just kind of putting your hand wherever it lands and whatever comes out of your mouth. And again, like having people that you can be safely doing that with, because I'm sure if there's plenty of musicians, and I know some of them that wouldn't tolerate this process, they'd be looking at me like, what are you doing? You know, like that's not cool, you know? But...

Chloe O'Brien (54:49.742)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (54:57.134)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (55:04.558)

Yeah.

Hahaha.

Brian Funk (55:13.051)

having that environment where you can just go for it. Like sometimes you just land on a cool spot, a cool note, or the wrong chord that's just right. And it's not so intellectual. It's just more, you're just feeling it. And that's where it went. And you're reacting too. It's, that's a lot of fun. That when you get, when you're.

Chloe O'Brien (55:22.286)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (55:30.062)

Yep. Yes. Yeah. Totally.

Brian Funk (55:38.263)

doing it so fast and I think we had this going a bit too where we were just kind of reacting to what happens.

Chloe O'Brien (55:43.278)

Yeah. Yeah. And when you get like, if you're in that group setting, I'm sure that you get feedback, not necessarily even verbal feedback, but just like when somebody does something, then everyone's like, Oh, that was awesome. Yeah. So, you know, coming up with things in real time with other people, you kind of get that, that too, which when you're by yourself, you might be able to have those moments.

Brian Funk (55:54.323)

Yeah. Little like head nod. Yeah.

Brian Funk (56:04.887)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (56:12.718)

by yourself, but it's pretty cool when you can share that with other people.

Brian Funk (56:19.231)

Yeah, we're always in sort of like a circle when we play facing each other. Lots of, I'm always like that. I'm always lots of eye contact when I'm playing like, because it's so loud too. You can't hear over anything. So you really have to exaggerate your body language and your facial expressions and all of that.

Chloe O'Brien (56:22.19)

Yeah, oh, it's so fun.

Chloe O'Brien (56:31.534)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (56:38.094)

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I loved hearing your songs that you guys wrote, like so clever. But like just made me smile. Like some of the lyrics were so honest and on almost like almost funny, but like not in a way that was like trying really hard to be funny, but just kind of like this is.

so real, so real and unpretentious in a really awesome way.

Brian Funk (57:08.384)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (57:13.255)

That's cool to hear. We have silliness in us. And that makes sense because when we get together, we're goofing around, we're having fun. That's a huge part of my personality, is being silly and stupid half the time. I love it. I'm a weirdo. That's fun for me.

Chloe O'Brien (57:21.198)

Yeah, yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (57:32.43)

It is fun. Yeah, it's fun to listen to. It's fun to listen to.

Brian Funk (57:38.539)

That's hard to get into sometimes by yourself. You kind of need somebody to chuckle with on it sometimes. And that's something I love about playing with the friends I have right now. And I'm playing with them that we kind of have that and it's okay and let it get in the music. Let it be a silly song. Who cares? We can ride many different emotions. And I think that's when it's fun.

Chloe O'Brien (57:41.902)

Yeah

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (57:54.606)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (58:05.262)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (58:07.243)

Like you were saying earlier, you're having fun. And fun can be on a serious song. I think the song we wrote with Matt was pretty serious on a level. I mean, the main chorus line was, I should have loved you more. And you know, it's kind of heart wrenching.

Chloe O'Brien (58:16.206)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (58:22.062)

It is heart-wrenching.

Brian Funk (58:25.195)

But it wasn't like we were sitting in the darkness, like with our druid hoods or something, and being all serious about it. We were mostly having a really good time.

Chloe O'Brien (58:28.654)

No.

Yeah.

No. Yeah. Which I think is so healing, you know, to be able to write a song about something that all of us could relate to in our own ways. And it was a song about loss and like having regret, like, oh my goodness, like that's a really tough thing to feel. And I think that if you can...

put that outside of yourself into a song and be able to enjoy the process of making that song and being able to bond with other people at the same time as kind of letting out this emotion that sometimes is really hard to like talk through. Like if you were to sit down with a bunch of strangers and have to like tell them that story, like read them those lyrics but

Brian Funk (59:14.739)

Mm.

Chloe O'Brien (59:33.262)

it be just you saying it, like that's kind of, it's really intense, but if you're able to kind of put it into music, I think it's really healing. And I've definitely benefited from moments like that, getting to write about things that are hard to talk about, but putting it into music is pretty healing.

Brian Funk (59:37.088)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:00:02.275)

Do you ever find that sometimes the things you write, when you step away from them and look at them, it's like, oh my God. Like someone's gonna worry about me when they read this, right? But the actual, when you're putting it together, it's not like that usually. Like I've written some lyrics and have some songs that when I look at them, it's like kind of dark, but I wasn't, again, I wasn't like sitting in the dark, like with, you know,

Chloe O'Brien (01:00:09.166)

Yes. Yes, definitely.

Chloe O'Brien (01:00:20.238)

Yep.

Chloe O'Brien (01:00:25.774)

Oh, yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:00:30.51)

Ha ha ha.

Brian Funk (01:00:31.991)

I don't know what candles and summoning spirits or anything. It was just, it's like you kind of toy with it a little bit. You're pulling things out that kind of sound interesting or sometimes they even just fit the melody well.

Chloe O'Brien (01:00:35.15)

Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Chloe O'Brien (01:00:43.246)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:00:52.974)

Yeah, I definitely have had moments like that. I think like, for me, I definitely have gone through a lot with my mental health, and it's something that for a long time was really, really hard for me to talk about, what like just going through things with anxiety and depression and just not really knowing how to handle it.

especially as a teenager and a young person. And music was really like the main way that I was able to get through that. And so sometimes the lyrics would for sure be really dark. Like I think when you're dealing with depression, like the dark thoughts that come through are like pretty.

Brian Funk (01:01:22.133)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:01:45.486)

dark. So when you put them into lyrics, you know, it does kind of come across that way. But for me, it's always been like, you write it down so that you can get it out of your head and onto a page. And I think that music is a really safe space to be vulnerable and to kind of even write down the things that are

Brian Funk (01:01:59.203)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:02:11.214)

the things you would not wanna say out loud or the things that you know aren't really true but you thought that anyway. I think it's a safe way to just let yourself express whatever it is that comes up. If it's positive, negative, really dark or really bright and joyful. Like we go through so many different emotions and I think music is a really safe.

Brian Funk (01:02:37.943)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:02:40.942)

place to explore all of them. And one thing I've been really trying to let myself do is let the song be completely itself. Like not worry if I have conflicting ideas, it doesn't matter. Like this song is about this topic and this feeling and this version of me and this character and.

Brian Funk (01:03:01.868)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:03:06.126)

It doesn't matter if I don't feel like that anymore, or if like I can see the other side of things, or if, you know, in real life, it didn't actually go like that, or, you know, whatever the details in my real life, humans are so nuanced, you're always gonna have conflicting things that you care about, that you wanna write songs about. But in one song, you can kinda just explore that one thing.

and let that one piece of it really come to the forefront, express it fully, explore it fully, even if that's really dark, don't torture yourself obviously, but sometimes if you can let yourself just really explore that one kind of dark thing, then you can move on from it and focus on something else. I had a teacher tell me once to...

Brian Funk (01:03:42.755)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:04:03.342)

not let reality get in the way of the truth. And I really thought that was interesting as a songwriter think about, right? Like, it doesn't matter if the real story is different. Like, how can you tell the truest version of that emotion or that facet of your life? Like, you don't have, you can focus in on one thing at a time. It's...

Brian Funk (01:04:08.637)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:04:30.83)

It's great to get to use music as a tool to explore all of the different parts of yourself.

Brian Funk (01:04:38.183)

I've heard that sentiment in like, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, which is a little bit different, I guess. Because I know like when I'm teaching sometimes, I'll often change things around for the impact and for the lesson of the story, you know, different details. Sometimes it's me and it really was about somebody else. But that's cool, the reality getting away with the truth because sometimes the reality isn't as...

Chloe O'Brien (01:04:43.635)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:04:53.683)

Yes.

Brian Funk (01:05:06.635)

real as what you're getting at. But I love what you're saying about, like, let the song be what it is. And I think that's kind of what I'm thinking of, too, when I'm saying, like, I look at some of the stuff and it's like, geez, Brian, like, you didn't have it that bad. What's the matter with you? But it's this idea of, like, you jump into that character and you go in there fully. And, like, what is this thought? Where does this lead? And sometimes I find when I put all that down and look at it,

Chloe O'Brien (01:05:09.01)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:05:19.638)

Hahaha

Brian Funk (01:05:36.131)

You're kind of like, well, I'm not really like that. It's not that bad. It's not really. And you see that kind of like one sidedness of the perspective. And I find it helps me a lot where I might, like a large part of me might even feel that. But once I really go down that road and like really dive into that feeling, and this could be on any side of it too, positive or negative, but you kind of get like this.

Chloe O'Brien (01:05:39.511)

Yes.

Chloe O'Brien (01:06:03.138)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:06:05.595)

understanding that, that's not the whole story. That's... and it's the trouble I have, I guess, when people try to look at things I've written and then look at me and try to like figure out where I'm at. And there's been a couple times already, like I almost brought it up, and this is like probably the third now that made me think of it. I'm listening to this podcast right now called Dissect.

Chloe O'Brien (01:06:09.324)

Yes.

Chloe O'Brien (01:06:22.542)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:06:34.671)

I've never heard of it.

Brian Funk (01:06:35.111)

And yeah, I guess they dissect albums. And I'd had it in my, you know, thing to listen to for a while, I've subscribed to it, but I hadn't ever listened to it. But then they started doing Radiohead's in Rainbows.

Chloe O'Brien (01:06:38.53)

Cool.

Chloe O'Brien (01:06:51.134)

Oh my God, that's like, that might be my number one favorite album. It's at least in my top three. I love, yeah. Well, honestly ever, like I love that album so much. That's probably the album that I've listened to the most times. Yeah, I love it.

Brian Funk (01:06:56.757)

Yeah.

of all albums ever or Radiohead albums? Yeah, cool.

Brian Funk (01:07:11.971)

Nice. I've got the like record, the whole, this like a hardcover record set that came out when they released that. And it's so cool. But this podcast is really nice cause they're taking an episode on each song. It's like 45 minute dissection and talking about the lyrics. Yeah. You're going to love it. But I'm wondering if there might be a part of you that gets a little frustrated too, because

Chloe O'Brien (01:07:20.447)

Uh.

Chloe O'Brien (01:07:29.158)

I have to listen. Yeah, I have to.

Brian Funk (01:07:39.379)

a lot of the lyrics that they start analyzing, he often starts saying, well, you know, Tom York's life was currently doing this. And there's a big part of me that's like, maybe that's working into it. But I also kind of get, I have that feeling I get when someone looks at my songs and like tries to like say, oh, you must be angry about this thing that's going on in you. And I'm wondering how much he's over reading into the lyrics. You know?

Chloe O'Brien (01:07:57.218)

Yeah.

Ha ha.

Chloe O'Brien (01:08:06.462)

Yeah, I guess we can never really know. I mean, I'd have to listen to it, but it's interesting. You can, yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:08:10.791)

Yeah, and they don't come out and tell you, you know, Tom York's not like explaining this. There's a mystery to them that works, I think.

Chloe O'Brien (01:08:18.706)

Yeah, it does. I really feel like you can never fully know what a songwriter was thinking or feeling when they wrote that, but I think that the songs that are the most emotionally impactful lyrically are the ones that are not necessarily literally true about that person's life or telling the story of their breakup.

perfectly verbatim. Most of the time it's the ones that just make you feel something or paint this cool image in your mind that you can connect with or are just like embracing that character in that moment. And I feel like most of the time it's true on some level, even if it's not fully true, like there is a part.

of the writer that can identify with that feeling. But I found that with writing for other people too, writing songs that I'm not gonna sing, you can explore parts of yourself and your own writer's voice that have nothing to do with your true life at all because it's for somebody else. Like I wouldn't write that song for me, but I can fully explore it.

that part of me that can identify with this song, even though somebody else is gonna sing it. So I think even those ones that are fully not even about me or for me at all, like there is still a part of me that like has embodied that concept in that moment. So.

Brian Funk (01:10:07.263)

Yeah. Yeah, and that's it exactly. Like that you're kind of exploring these things when you're writing about them. And I don't think it takes away from it in any way either. Like just because that wasn't exactly what happened to this person. I think it's an exploration and it's interesting for what it is that you can kind of go there and see what it's like for a little while.

Chloe O'Brien (01:10:15.011)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:10:23.579)

No, yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:10:29.6)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:10:33.966)

Totally. And honestly, that album, like, it's that album that I've listened to most probably, but I could not recite you all of the lyrics on most of the songs, because it's kind of abstract in a way. And like, it almost is like the lyrics are there to aid in the vibe of the song. And I think that's pretty cool too.

Brian Funk (01:10:44.066)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:10:50.581)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:10:55.629)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:11:01.479)

Yeah, I'm learning a lot of the lyrics listening to the podcast because he doesn't, he's not super clear in his enunciation all the time. And I think, you know, that's part of the effect. Like you said, it's not meant to be this like, it's up for interpretation in a way. So it's a cool podcast. I think if you like the album, you'll definitely get a kick out of it. It's cool to hear some of the isolated parts.

Chloe O'Brien (01:11:03.748)

I bet.

Chloe O'Brien (01:11:10.946)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:11:26.099)

Yeah, I gotta check it out.

Chloe O'Brien (01:11:30.426)

Ugh.

Brian Funk (01:11:30.471)

And the other thing that you were saying earlier is a lot of those ideas were floating around for years. There were songs that were, they maybe did live weird versions or they had these riffs and they, you know, a couple of them didn't make the cut for like OK Computer, but they hung around. And it's, it's cool to hear how they were able to finally like reel them in and turn them into something cool.

Chloe O'Brien (01:11:36.653)

Wow.

Chloe O'Brien (01:11:46.68)

Wow.

Chloe O'Brien (01:11:54.282)

So cool. Yeah, that's super inspiring. I'm gonna have to listen for sure.

Brian Funk (01:12:00.703)

Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes too, so if anyone wants to look it up. Because it's so inspiring. And I find that it almost doesn't even matter if I even like the song or the album. But when artists start breaking things down and you start dissecting it, you can always kind of find something that you can take and use and learn from.

Chloe O'Brien (01:12:11.894)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:12:22.954)

Yep, totally. That's been a huge thing for me with production over the last couple of years is just learning from what other people do and trying it out. I learned a bit of production in college and I had some classes where we talked about just how to use the software, the principles of...

what elements go into things, like what is EQ, what is compression. So I was able to learn a lot of that stuff in a academic setting, but in terms of figuring out how I want to make my music sound, or how to do things creatively, like no one can really teach you that other than like, I mean,

Brian Funk (01:13:14.323)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:13:16.57)

I am a teacher, so I do think people can teach you certain tools and techniques for creativity, for sure. But I do believe that like the best way to figure out what you want to do with your art is by just listening to a lot of other people's stuff and learning from what other people do and then trying it yourself and.

not necessarily doing the same thing that they do, but opening yourself up to other ideas that you like. Like if you listen to this Radiohead podcast and think, oh man, I love that synth part, that's such a cool part. And then hearing them say, okay, well, here it is soloed and this is how we made it. You know, you can come up with your own thing.

Brian Funk (01:14:12.33)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:14:14.646)

by just exploring techniques that other people have used and that has definitely made me realize a lot of the things that I like to do with my own production just by kind of listening to a lot of other people.

Brian Funk (01:14:33.183)

Yeah, then get your hands dirty. See what you can come up with. A lot of it's like an approximation. Yeah. Like you got, you got to do it and you don't always get there, but you get there in your way, you get your version of it.

Chloe O'Brien (01:14:35.414)

Yep. Well, you definitely have to do it. Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:14:44.434)

No. Well, yeah, you get your own thing. Like, in terms of like referencing and reference tracks and that kind of thing, like, I kinda like to listen to it like once and then say, okay, cool, that's the vibe that I wanna play around with and then not listen to it again. Because like, if you listen to the references too much,

Brian Funk (01:15:09.173)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:15:11.062)

then you start to parrot, right? And kind of mimic what other people do. And I think that's a great way to learn. But I also think that like, if you wanna make something that feels more you, then let's do it like once and then make your own thing with inspiration from the things that you love versus like.

Brian Funk (01:15:15.724)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:15:32.524)

Mm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:15:37.934)

copying things, but I do think that taking inspiration from other people is a lot different than copying. And I think copying is plagiarism, but being inspired and trying things out that you know other people have done that worked for them and putting your own spin on it, I think that is a really great way to grow.

Brian Funk (01:16:01.783)

Especially when you get so granular, right? Like when you're saying, oh, it's a synth part. Like, okay, so that's one little nugget of the song, right? So yeah, you can kind of go nuts trying to copy that, but it's not like you're trying to make the whole exact song again. You might be taking that from them and this from them and 17 other things, and then it's like your own little stew that you've made.

Chloe O'Brien (01:16:06.375)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:16:15.383)

Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:16:23.555)

Yup.

Chloe O'Brien (01:16:27.626)

Yeah, I think the more different things you listen to then the more unique your stew will be at the end of the day. So like listening to a bunch of different kinds of music has been really inspiring. I have like a song that I'm working on right now that has kind of like a drum and bass drum loop, which is super different from anything else I've ever done, but I was listening to a lot of electronic music and I was like, man.

I really like this groove. I really like it's fast and it's like, makes me wanna like move my head back and forth really quick, I don't know. There's just something about that fast drum and bass kind of break beat that I really liked. But then I wanted to not make a drum and bass song. I was like, how can you like use something from this genre that's really far away, really different from what I normally would do? And then put an acoustic guitar on it.

Brian Funk (01:17:05.514)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:17:26.818)

and sing like a really soft kind of floaty melody, then it turns into something that's not really drum and bass at all, but also, I don't know, it's just, yeah, either. So it's kind of like, it's really fun to play around with that.

Brian Funk (01:17:39.679)

Not really a folky singer-songwriter either.

Brian Funk (01:17:47.539)

Yeah, we're so lucky now, like, with all the potential we have for this stuff, we can run wild with it. Yeah. So listen, I know we're getting close to the end of our time. I think you got something coming up soon.

Chloe O'Brien (01:17:54.582)

can do anything.

anything.

Brian Funk (01:18:05.495)

but I wanna make sure we get a chance to just tell people where to find you and where you like to send them. I know you're pretty active on Instagram. There's a lot of cool stuff going on now with some of your performances are starting to show up, which has been cool to see. That would be just instagram.com slash Chloe, sorry, Chloe. I missed my mouth. Chloe underscore echo, right?

Chloe O'Brien (01:18:11.618)

Awesome.

Chloe O'Brien (01:18:18.142)

Yeah. Thanks. Yeah.

Chloe O'Brien (01:18:29.006)

Hehehehe

Yeah, there's two underscores, double underscore, I know. Chloe, yeah. Chloe double underscore Echo. That's my Instagram. You can check out chloeecho.com and on Spotify Chloe Echo on all of the listening platforms you can find Chloe Echo, Apple, yeah. All the good stuff and yes, I have been performing. It's been a lot of fun and.

Brian Funk (01:18:34.699)

Oh, it's two underscores. Okay. Like an echo.

Brian Funk (01:18:52.851)

Yeah, Apple, it's all there.

Yes.

Brian Funk (01:19:01.215)

What's the ensemble you have together? Because there's so many directions you could probably go, I'm sure.

Chloe O'Brien (01:19:08.634)

Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges actually of this new music that I'm working on that is getting ready to be released over the next few months, it's a lot more produced and electronic influenced than some of my previous stuff. So I knew I was going to have to have some sort of Ableton setup happening on stage, which I've kind of shied away from for the last

I mean, I have done so much with just a band with two guitars, maybe a synth player, bass and drums. And I've done that like a lot. So I've been nervous to incorporate Ableton on stage, mainly because of the tech, like, oh, the technical difficulties stress me out, like worrying, okay, well, what if it stops working? Like, what if halfway through the song?

Brian Funk (01:19:42.836)

Hmm.

Chloe O'Brien (01:20:08.114)

Like my microphone isn't working anymore. Like I just.

Brian Funk (01:20:11.343)

Yeah, but that happens to guitar amps and drumsticks and strings. And it's a different fear, though. I know what you mean.

Chloe O'Brien (01:20:13.83)

It does, it does, but it'll happen no matter what really, but I think.

Yeah, I think that I was nervous that the tech would not work on stage. And so I've always kind of felt like it's easier to just like play live instruments, which I think, you know, is somewhat true, but not necessarily true either, because you have to learn instruments that way. So that's hard also. But.

Now I have decided, you know what, now, like, I really want to incorporate Ableton on stage. I've been producing a lot more with these new songs and I want to be able to, like, share some of that in a performance as well. Like, be able to have some of the cool production choices, like swells and synth parts that would be hard to do live. Like, I wanted those to be able to be a part of the performance as well. So I have my push.

where I'm triggering some sections of tracks. And then also I'm doing some vocoder stuff with vocal synth and playing the chords on the push. And I have one song in particular that has a lot of kind of quirky sound effects in the production. So I have that on a drum rack and playing the

sound effects when they come in. And it's been really fun to get to play around with it. It's really cool. And then there's a guitar, bass, and drums. So I have live drums, a bass player, a guitarist, and then me with, sometimes I'm playing guitar, and then sometimes I'm using the push. And it's been really fun.

Brian Funk (01:22:06.579)

It sounds like you have enough going on where if your computer decides to blow up, you've still got other stuff playing, right, where the song can continue. So that's, that's a nice safety net.

Chloe O'Brien (01:22:11.662)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well that happened. It did happen. I had well my computer didn't blow up, but I did have a show where the tech wasn't working. We weren't able to use the push and the tracks and my worst fears came true and it was fine. So now I'm a lot less nervous about it because

Brian Funk (01:22:34.091)

Nice. There you go. Yeah, you're empowered now, right?

Chloe O'Brien (01:22:38.366)

Yeah, I'm like, well, even if everything fails on my computer, I don't even know. It was probably just a situation where resetting my computer would have fixed it because it wasn't, I was like, why is this happening right now? Sometimes off and on is the only answer. Yeah, so.

Brian Funk (01:22:52.631)

There's all kinds of things. I had one time where I had automation that turned the volume down and I left it in the session and I couldn't figure it out. Like last second figured it out. Things come up.

Chloe O'Brien (01:23:01.829)

Ugh.

Chloe O'Brien (01:23:06.002)

Yeah, exactly. So that happened on stage and my band was able to come through and we played without the tracks and it was great. It was a really fun show. And it proved to me that like, even if technical difficulties happen, like worst case scenario, it doesn't even like play. Then.

you can still have a good show. So now I'm a lot more chill. I'm like, eh, whatever. I'm gonna bring it up there. I'll play around with it. If it works, it works. And hopefully it will work next time. And I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will.

Brian Funk (01:23:46.107)

Nice.

Brian Funk (01:23:51.587)

It's a great place to be.

Chloe O'Brien (01:23:53.374)

Yeah, having a lot of fun. That's the most important thing. Yes, it's been so great to see you.

Brian Funk (01:23:56.747)

Cool, Chloe. This was great. It's so great to catch up with you again. We'll send people to your sites and stuff and I hope everybody has a great day. Thanks for listening and take care.

Chloe O'Brien (01:24:08.77)

Thank you. Thanks everyone.