Recording an Entire Album Yourself with Dex Green - Music Production Podcast #371

Dex Green is a Nashville-based producer, engineer, and songwriter. He recorded his new album, Imaginary War, by himself, playing every instrument. Dex has worked with artists like Elvis Costello, Margo Price, and Collective Soul. His work has been nominated for a Grammy.

Dex and I spoke about his work and the lessons he's picked up from recording countless acts in various genres. He discussed the process of recording his new album Imaginary War. Dex shared how he's combined philosophies and concepts from jazz studies, playing in punk and ska bands as a teenager, and recording top artists in Nashville.

This episode is sponsored by Baby Audio. Use the code MPP15 to save 15%! https://babyaud.io 

Listen on Apple, Spotify, YouTube

Takeaways:

  • Dex's unconventional path to producing his album as a solo artist

  • The impact of personal experiences on artistic expression and creative decisions

  • The evolution of music and the influence of different genres on contemporary music

  • The challenges and rewards of writing and recording a solo album

  • The importance of finding the right key and voice for musical compositions

  • The importance of limitations in the creative process

  • The role of music production software in modern music creation

  • The significance of recording techniques in shaping the sound of a track

  • The impact of ska bands on the music scene

  • The creative process and songwriting in music production

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:01.869)

Dex, congratulations on the new album coming out.

dex (00:05.999)

Thanks, Brian. Exciting times.

Brian Funk (00:07.757)

So it's, yeah, it's June 26th, right? Imaginary War.

dex (00:12.334)

Yeah, 26 or maybe 28. You might have to double check the... Is it 28? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all good. No, all good? Nah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (00:14.765)

It's 28. I wrote down 28, just said 26. Sorry about that. And what's kind of cool is you have a lot of experience. And we'll talk about that, but this is actually your first album of your own work, like as an artist.

dex (00:30.286)

Yeah, yeah. I sort of, you know, maybe I'm doing this backwards compared to a lot of people that get into record production. It seems like, you know, a lot of people are in bands and find their way to making records. And I found my way to making records and then kind of wanted to be my own little band, you know, after. Yeah.

Brian Funk (00:38.957)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (00:51.789)

Right. Yeah, you're probably right about that, but I guess if you do it this way, your first record sounds really good instead of like, a lot of us, our first things are just like disasters.

dex (00:59.657)

Well, man, I feel like I'm just learning as I go, you know, for life, honestly, you know.

Brian Funk (01:11.501)

Yeah, I feel the same way. It's kind of a, it's what's cool about it really. It's this thing you never quite master and figure out totally.

dex (01:13.965)

Yeah.

dex (01:17.773)

No, no man, I'm a lifelong student of music and the process of creativity and all that. That's kind of what keeps me excited about doing it, you know.

Brian Funk (01:27.565)

Yeah, and you have training too. I saw that you went to the Manhattan School of Music.

dex (01:35.532)

I did. Yeah. Yeah. man, I was, you know, at that point in my life, I had, I had, dove pretty deep into the jazz pool and was really like, you know, I've loved the, the I improvisation and just really, I moved to New York and went to mat school because I really just wanted to be around people that were doing that on a high level. And, you know, I grew up in a really small, nowhere town in South Carolina where there wasn't a lot of opportunities to hear people.

Brian Funk (01:37.389)

What was like the focus for that?

dex (02:05.868)

you know, play music like that, honestly, you know. So I had to go find it. And I figured New York was the best place to do that, you know.

Brian Funk (02:10.669)

Right.

Brian Funk (02:17.197)

Nice. So was that what you studied like jazz, jazz composition, improv?

dex (02:21.519)

Yeah, jazz performance and guitar bass. Yeah, I was doing it on guitar. Yeah. Yeah, I had the bright idea in my teen years. It would be, it'd be cool to have a jazz career. You know, I'll play some jazz and maybe when I got nights off, I'll go play pool for money. You know, it's like the two worst things you can think about to do financially.

Brian Funk (02:27.709)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (02:41.261)

That sounds like a 17 year old's plan.

dex (02:45.162)

Yeah, totally. Total 17 year old plan.

Brian Funk (02:48.717)

That's funny, playing pool too.

dex (02:50.506)

I was obsessed. I was obsessed with pool. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (02:53.997)

Really? You know, I could understand that. You know, like a game of angles, precision, in a weird way, it kind of reminds me of music. I don't play it all, but just the kind of, yeah, there's the chance of it, there's the kind of thinking on your feet.

dex (03:06.122)

Yeah.

dex (03:13.514)

Totally. Yeah, it's problem solving and yeah, there's some kind of meditation emotion element to it to get really good at it. You have to be able to do that stuff with precision while there's pressure and all that. It can be similar, I guess, in record production too. I mean, I try to keep it chill in our environment where we're recording, but when you got people that have...

Brian Funk (03:29.837)

Right.

dex (03:40.713)

save money to come in and try and make something and they're spending cash and you want them to have a good time and enjoy themselves while they're doing it. Yeah, a lot of sides to it. I got a lot of psychology in the making of the record.

Brian Funk (03:49.933)

Mm.

Brian Funk (03:54.925)

Right.

Brian Funk (03:58.509)

Yeah, yeah, I would think so. That probably carries over like one sort of, so much of what I'm learning as I go is how everything kind of affects everything else. One thing you learn that seems totally unrelated somehow kind of helps you become a better musician or vice versa.

dex (04:16.873)

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Brian Funk (04:22.797)

So you started producing records after that. How did you make that jump from jazz musician, pool hall hero?

dex (04:28.968)

Well, man, I kind of have an eclectic background. I mean, I started out just playing in punk rock bands and at the same time playing cello in the orchestra in high school. So I've always just been kind of all over the place musically. So I really, like I said, got deep into the jazz thing in my teens and early 20s. But I always had a love for songs.

Which that brought me back around to the idea of wanting to make records and make songs, compositions and that kind of thing. But yeah, even towards the end of my time at Manhattan School of Music, I was getting into like, I want to buy, my first rig was an ADAT, eight track machine. Yeah. Silver face ADAT.

Brian Funk (05:22.461)

that was mine too, after cassette tapes, yeah. The VHS. Yes, cool. Had the blackface.

dex (05:27.943)

Yeah, totally. Yeah, that was my first rig. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that was my intro. And so just like, you know, having a little multi track recorder, just, you know, and hanging out in the basement. And I would, you know, I would, I would get some of some of my pals from school to come over and help them make like, you know, little demos that could go get club gigs, you know. You know, so that's how it's, that's how it started. And then.

Brian Funk (05:42.125)

Right.

Brian Funk (05:52.365)

Yeah, that's fun.

dex (05:56.934)

And then Logic on a Mac was the next step. Yeah. Big jump. Yeah. Yeah. I was always fascinated by the idea when that stuff was coming around though that you could like, you know, make a record on a computer. It was just like mind blowing to me, you know.

Brian Funk (06:00.749)

Mm -hmm. That's cool. Big jump, right? Yeah.

Brian Funk (06:14.701)

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, for me, it was very similar. I was like four track cassettes playing rock and roll bands. I didn't have the orchestra side. That's an interesting element to the punk rocker. Nice contrast. But I did get to those ADATs and that was like when things felt serious. It was the first thing I think I ever bought on eBay was ADATs. Before you knew if it was safe, you know?

dex (06:27.141)

Yeah. Yeah.

dex (06:32.069)

Yeah.

dex (06:40.517)

That's awesome. Yeah.

You're right. Yeah, that's awesome.

Brian Funk (06:45.021)

Great introduction. And then, yeah, then my friends, some of my friends started going to school for music and they were working with Pro Tools. And I was just like, wow, like you can, like all this, these editing things I was trying to do, it was just like a click. It's like, what? You kidding me? You can keep everything in time. There's a grid.

dex (07:03.492)

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. It's crazy what's what what how far all this stuff has come since, you know, the dawn of the digital audio workstation coming out of the ADAT world and all that kind of stuff, you know.

Brian Funk (07:21.517)

Yeah. How was that for you in these sort of almost like opposite worlds of playing in an orchestra and playing in punk rock bands? Like...

dex (07:31.62)

man, you know, it all just seemed like just music to me, you know, it wasn't like, I like doing this thing a better way. I just, I don't know. I just, you know, I picked up the cello because I looked around in elementary school and a few of my friends were like, they played violin or viola or whatever. And I was like, I don't know, I want to play something. I want to play cello, you know. So my mother was really always very supportive and it rendered me one. And, you know, and I did that up until.

I forgot when I kind of started bailing on the orchestra. Once I started getting serious about like jazz guitar stuff, I sort of, that fell by the wayside, you know? And you know, I don't really play jazz anymore, honestly. I mean, I still use those things as tools, but you know, I kind of stopped playing out or doing that kind of stuff, you know? But there's actually a little jazz scene in Nashville. Now, when I first moved to Nashville, there really wasn't a lot of people doing jazz at all, you know?

And back then they would tell you not to let others know that you could. You know, yeah, you can play jazz, don't tell anybody that you can play those chords because, you know, most stuff they're doing down in Nashville has nothing to do with that kind of harmony. You know, no, no, no, no out of town chords, you know.

Brian Funk (08:31.725)

yeah.

Brian Funk (08:39.981)

Yeah, they don't want to hear that. Yeah, it's that country, right?

dex (08:47.682)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, of course it's totally different around here now as opposed to when I moved here. I mean, it's really eclectic now.

Brian Funk (08:52.141)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (08:57.901)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, well, I mean, so many genres, including country, like has embraced so many other, I mean, a lot of country now, some of the pop country sounds like hip hop half the time. And it seems very unlikely, but, you know, it works.

dex (09:08.833)

Totally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yep. Yeah.

Brian Funk (09:17.581)

I can hear a little bit of that jazz in your record. You know, listen to it. I can hear some of the voicings of the chords and stuff, you know, sevens and extended chord, you know, some nice melodies and harmonies.

dex (09:20.865)

There's a little touch in there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

dex (09:29.985)

There's, yeah, yeah, thanks man. Yeah, there's a little dash of it. Yeah, you know, guitar has been home base my whole life. I mean, I kind of dabble around on a bunch of different instruments. I wouldn't say I'm great at any of them, but the whole idea with that record was to make something where I didn't touch a guitar the whole time. So there's zero.

Brian Funk (09:48.589)

Yeah, there's no guitar? wow, because there's a few things that sound guitar -ish. There might be synths or...

dex (09:54.688)

Yeah, yeah, maybe inspired by my guitar playing, but yeah, I just sort of like it. I didn't plan it that way, but I got halfway through it and I was like, man, I haven't picked up a guitar yet. Maybe I just don't, you know? So it was a fun little challenge just to stay away from home base in a way and keep, keep my writing process fresh and kind of on my toes as opposed to resting on my, you know, the old.

Brian Funk (09:57.645)

Wow.

Brian Funk (10:16.109)

Yeah.

dex (10:24.095)

G chord. Whatever, you know.

Brian Funk (10:26.349)

Right. That's cool. I think as I started getting into production, especially with the computer and you've got all these synthesizers now and MIDI controllers, my guitar playing definitely went in the backseat. But it's in the last, I don't know, five years or so, it's been like a revival for me and like revisiting it for the first time, you know, like reunited again.

dex (10:52.735)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Get it back together. I kind of feel like, you know, it seems like the guitar went away for a while, man. And I don't know. Right? Yeah, it's just like guitar wasn't on the radio for some years. It kind of seems like it's coming back around though in general, doesn't it?

Brian Funk (11:03.565)

The music, almost, yeah.

Brian Funk (11:12.301)

Yeah, and I remember seeing some kind of article or something saying like, the top 10 doesn't have guitar for the first time and whatever. Or it wasn't like guitar bands, you know? But I'm noticing more alternative rock influence in some of the music like young kids are listening to now. Some more guitar stuff creeping its way in.

dex (11:21.246)

Yeah.

Right.

dex (11:36.318)

I don't know, are we hitting some kind of 90s loop again or something? It's almost like that's coming back around.

Brian Funk (11:42.637)

Yeah, I think we are. It's like cool again now.

dex (11:44.958)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing how the stuff's all cyclical, isn't it? Yeah.

Brian Funk (11:50.445)

I guess that's just what happens, right?

Yeah. It's also, I don't know about you, but I kind of feel like the decades aren't things anymore. we had like the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, and almost like since 2000, it feels kind of just like everything's going on now. I don't know. I don't, I don't feel that clear delineation between like the two thousands and the 2010s and the 2020s. Like I did.

dex (12:12.157)

Yeah.

dex (12:20.573)

Right. Yeah, it's like the 50s and 60s. Everything was like, this is the first time anybody had done it, you know. It was all brand new. Now we're just kind of, you know, Nixon and matching, I guess in a way, right? Pulling from all that stuff.

Brian Funk (12:27.725)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (12:35.821)

Mm.

Yeah, even like clothing, fashion, you know, you can kind of picture what it looked like in each one of those decades. And now it's like, I don't even know.

dex (12:42.428)

Yeah.

dex (12:48.54)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're a big mishmash now.

Brian Funk (12:52.461)

Yeah.

dex (12:53.82)

Not a bad thing though.

Brian Funk (12:55.501)

No, no, it's making for some interesting stuff and hopefully people will keep being creative and figuring stuff out. I'm sure we will.

dex (12:58.173)

for sure.

dex (13:04.476)

Making fresh stuff, man, I think that's what it's about, you know? What else we gonna do while we're here, you know?

Brian Funk (13:10.733)

Yeah, right. So what was it that made you decide time to make an album? You know, some kind of like itch you had or...

dex (13:21.595)

Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, when I moved to Nashville, I thought it would be cool to do that and be a performing artist. And, you know, as I got more opportunities to be in the studio, I realized, I just want to make this stuff. And I don't care about going out and entertaining people with it or hopping in a van or bus or whatever. I just, you know, I just like the, it's like kind of making the sonic paintings and be on to the next one, you know.

Brian Funk (13:50.861)

Yeah.

dex (13:50.939)

But, you know, honestly, I mean, one thing that really propelled my desire to do it was losing my mom. You know, it kind of, you know, accentuated the idea of our limited availability time -wise here. And I was like, you know, I should just, I should make do with my own little I was here kind of thing, you know? So that was really the main driving force behind it.

Brian Funk (14:11.182)

Right.

Brian Funk (14:15.693)

Yeah.

dex (14:21.082)

You know, and also like I'm always writing and creating and playing. I'm, you know, that's, I'm a musician before any of this stuff with making records. So, so there was, you know, natural evolution in that department, you know.

Brian Funk (14:36.301)

Yeah, that's a good reason too. And I read a little bit about that in your bio and then you also mentioned how supportive your mom was with your music and it's the...

dex (14:46.265)

Yeah, got really lucky in that department. Yeah, yeah. I kind of knew from a young age. What's that?

Brian Funk (14:50.253)

Yeah, I know, I feel the same way. I feel the same way with, I mean, my parents were the ones that let the band play in the basement. I don't know how they tolerated that.

dex (14:58.106)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, man. Yeah, we were lucky, lucky ones. Yeah, I mean, I kind of knew from a young age that I really wanted to be messing around with this stuff for the rest of my life. And she helped me afford every opportunity to, you know, to get in situations where I could learn and grow and be around people that were doing that stuff, you know, taking it seriously. So, yeah.

Brian Funk (15:05.429)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (15:25.741)

Yeah, that's a cool way to kind of make good on all her efforts.

dex (15:30.201)

Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly. And it's funny because she was a real ham. She loved to, you know, I mean, she was a legal assistant, paralegal, but she loved to sing. And if she had her way, she probably would have been like a kind of like jazz cabaret type of singer. She loved to do that kind of thing. You know, and she loved to perform and she would perform in like a...

Brian Funk (15:51.021)

Nice.

dex (15:54.904)

We had like a little theater where I grew up and they would put on productions, shows and stuff and she would always like to sing and those, you know. So she was way into it, into the performance element, you know, of it. So, yeah.

Brian Funk (16:02.893)

Yeah.

Right. Yeah, I'm sure that had a big influence on you.

dex (16:10.104)

Yeah, yeah, it gave us an opportunity to be together. There was a couple of times where I would end up playing as a musician in the pit while she was performing. Yeah, so I'd be playing drums in the pit or whatever, she'd be up there on stage. I'd be looking up with one of those hats with an arrow going through my head or something trying to mess with her.

Brian Funk (16:20.749)

I don't know why.

Brian Funk (16:25.749)

That's so cool.

Brian Funk (16:37.389)

That's awesome. I just saw, you know, like flipping around on YouTube, it was an interview with Gene Wilder, you know, old interview. And he was talking about his mother and how when he was a kid, his mother got sick and the doctor said, make her laugh. So he's like, all right, I'll try to make her laugh. And it kind of like worked, you know, with his mom. And he was just talking about how that like.

dex (16:44.535)

Yeah.

dex (16:54.263)

Yeah. Wow.

Brian Funk (17:02.381)

you know, motherly approval, you know, just like kind of fueled him and how much like, what, what do our parents give to us that way? You know, when they say like, Hey, you know, Attaboy, good job. And.

dex (17:05.175)

Yeah.

Wow.

dex (17:11.671)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. What a cool inspiration though.

do that for somebody else like that and that lead to that kind of career. It's amazing. I love that.

Brian Funk (17:23.789)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (17:28.141)

Right. Yeah. I mean, he's awesome, right? He was one of the greats and gave to so many people because of that.

dex (17:32.855)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, yeah.

Brian Funk (17:39.149)

ripple effect of life, you know?

dex (17:40.758)

Yeah, man. Yeah. I like that idea of like selfless art, doing it for something, you know, like, it's really hip.

Brian Funk (17:51.661)

Yeah, sometimes when you're doing it with someone in mind, it takes you out of it. I find like it's not so much like, I'm trying to show who I am and prove myself to people I don't even know. You're really like directed with it.

dex (18:00.341)

Yeah, yeah.

dex (18:09.205)

Right. Kind of takes the ego out of the equation or something. Yeah.

Brian Funk (18:14.253)

Yeah.

Yeah, because it's like not for you.

dex (18:18.805)

Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

Brian Funk (18:25.325)

Yeah, I think the album's a great nod or tribute or dedication type of thing. It sounds awesome. I love the sound of it. It's got so many kind of cool influences. I mean, I hear almost like a 70s vibe to it. It's like kind of funk R &B from the 70s, but I hear like indie rock.

dex (18:34.292)

Thanks, Aaron.

dex (18:42.9)

Yeah.

dex (18:47.06)

For sure. Yeah.

Brian Funk (18:51.053)

Yeah, a lot of different things coming together. And I especially like just the overall sound of the record. It just has a cool feel. It's very cohesive too throughout.

dex (19:00.723)

Thanks man, I did try to make something that you could listen to as a whole, not just cherry pick a song or whatever. And yeah, I was definitely pulling from a lot of things you're talking about. You're kind of hitting the nail on the head, you know, definitely some, you know, definitely pulling from some seventies kind of groove kind of stuff, you know, yeah.

Brian Funk (19:21.805)

And something that's really cool about that is, you know, those were bands. Those were really tight bands with lots of group and your record sounds like a band, but you played everything more or less, right?

dex (19:27.923)

Yeah. Yeah.

dex (19:33.011)

I did, I played every note on it. And that was kind of the idea. I wanted to make a record that sounded like a band and kind of be the band and the writer and then figure out how to be the singer in it too and not the guitar player. So there was a bunch of just kind of, you know, trying to challenge myself a little bit to get outside of, you know, some of the boxes I've been living in, you know.

Brian Funk (19:56.045)

It's a good challenge. Not only are you trying to be a band, but you also can't do your main thing.

dex (20:02.194)

Yeah, I mean, it took me a while to figure out how I because I've been, you know, despite the fact I've been making records for a long time, it's different when you're like, you know, you get on the microphone and you're the singer and how do you want to present yourself as that? And, and so there was definitely a lot of time just, you know, parked in front of an SM7 just like trying to figure out how I wanted to be that over the music, you know.

Brian Funk (20:27.053)

Right. Yeah, there's like finding a voice and attitude. You mean like kind of a.

dex (20:29.009)

Yeah, totally. Yeah. How, who I wanted to be as a singer as opposed to just like, you know, a producer or whatever. So there was some discovery in that realm too, you know.

Brian Funk (20:44.493)

Yeah. Well, I'm always fascinated by the, you know, like one person album and, how it's done. And that's, I mean, that's how I've done most of my music. I always try to figure out the best way to go about it. how are you, do you write your songs first or are you kind of like writing, producing, recording? Or is it, how's that process look with the songwriting itself?

dex (20:50.353)

Yeah.

dex (20:54.321)

Yeah.

dex (21:11.056)

Yeah, it seems to always be different. And, but a lot of this stuff did, because I didn't sit down with like an acoustic guitar and try and figure out how to, you know, make this from that perspective. There was definitely a lot of like, sometimes it would just start with a drum beat and just start jamming with it, you know, jam of myself and looking for stuff, you know. There was a couple of songs on there that I wrote at the piano.

But a lot of it was like just messing around with sounds and letting kind of just let myself run around and look for stuff until it sparked an idea. A lot of it is definitely track first kind of record. I would say the majority of it is music first. And then I would kind of, I would have melodic ideas and then the lyrics would come together. So yeah, it was like a, you know,

Brian Funk (21:50.669)

Right.

dex (22:07.311)

opposite of like a singer -songwriter record, which you know we do a lot of those around here and there's a lot of great singer -songwriters and I've been lucky to write with a bunch of them and I loved it doing that stuff too. But yeah it was just a way for me to again just kind of flip the script on some of the stuff I had been doing as a producer and kind of like just try something totally different you know.

Brian Funk (22:10.317)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (22:30.221)

Yeah, that's cool. From what I've heard from some of the producers and engineers in Nashville, I mean, they're just so good at taking the singer songwriter, somebody on a guitar, piano, and bringing players in and figuring it out relatively quickly and getting those songs down.

dex (22:42.83)

Yeah. Yeah.

dex (22:49.582)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I do a lot of records like that where I'm, you know, kind of casting a band and bringing my buddies over to the studio and we, we back up a singer songwriter and make records like that. And I love that process too, you know, and it's really fun. And, and, you know, you couldn't ask for a better talent pool to draw from here. There's so many good musicians, you know, and I have a pretty solid team of people that I can call when I want to make a record like that.

Brian Funk (23:13.613)

Right.

dex (23:18.285)

to come over and be the band and write the charts out and these cats can play the stuff and a couple of three takes at the most and you've got an album.

Brian Funk (23:30.669)

So cool.

dex (23:31.277)

Yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (23:33.613)

Can I ask you, it's a little bit of a tangent, but what is the charting system like for you? I imagine you're probably not writing out like staff and sheet music.

dex (23:44.333)

No, I mean, I grew up on that stuff and reading like lead sheets for, you know, jazz, jazz music and kind of like real book style writing where there is a melody written out and chord changes above it and all that. And I remember moving down here and I didn't understand like, why would you just, why wouldn't you just write the chord? And it was like, you know, if you're in the middle of a record and like the singer doesn't sound good in that key.

It's like, you don't have to write the whole thing over again if you're doing it in numbers, because now you can just, you know, the one chord could be whatever you say it is. You know, so I've come around to the number chart thing and, you know, I have a couple of buddies that were really good at it that, that I learned a few tricks with being able to write those charts. And, you know, I've ever had a bass player that's like, he's just, he's a magician with it. He kind of has perfect pitch and he can just write, listen to a song one time and have it written out immaculately with all, you know, yeah.

Brian Funk (24:37.165)

Yeah. Wow.

dex (24:40.396)

So I've gotten faster at it, but it's a really good tool when you're moving quick. And of course, when you're making a record, it's all about the singer. And if it's not in the right key, you got to tune it for them. So I find that to be the best usage of the number system.

Brian Funk (24:51.821)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (24:56.893)

That's definitely something I, like I don't, not a singer, but I use my voice. I sing in a band and everything, but like, I feel that way about a lot of instruments that I use, not necessarily the play, but finding the right key can often make the difference. And sometimes it's tricky with guitar because you got like these open chords and there's like keys that...

dex (25:04.427)

Yeah, that's how I feel the same way. Yeah.

dex (25:12.363)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (25:25.805)

The guitar really lends itself to and then there's other keys like a B flat is kind of a weird key to playing guitar or F sharp. Yeah.

dex (25:33.035)

Yeah, which is like home base for horn players or whatever. Yeah, totally, man. Yeah. Yeah, it's a trip, man. The idea of like, you know, writing for your voice and, or writing for whatever voice you're working with. You know, it took me a long time to, for that to dawn on me. It's like, it's like, we all have our like sweet spots, you know, vocally and, and composing for yourself and for your voice. It's like a, you know, it's a whole thing in itself. Just writing for.

what the singer does or what, how they sound best. You know what I mean?

Brian Funk (26:07.821)

Hmm. Yeah, I think for myself, I kind of learn it almost when I have to play all of the songs. And then I'm like, I'm tired now. I'm like, geez, this isn't working because I can't get through the set.

dex (26:21.642)

Right, yeah, yeah, totally, yeah.

Brian Funk (26:24.429)

Yeah.

That's a cool system. I guess we can do things like detune and use capos, but that can really make the difference a lot of times. Just a little transposition here or there and things suddenly just... Yeah.

dex (26:39.242)

A half step can go a long way with a song sometimes. Yeah, for sure.

Brian Funk (26:46.253)

So when you're working on your tracks, you like to start with beats a lot of the times. It's kind of what I like to do too. Are you playing beats? Are you programming them? The drumming on the record sounds great. And a few things I want to ask you about that, but are you like just laying down a beat yourself playing stuff or programming stuff out?

dex (26:54.217)

Yeah.

dex (26:59.528)

Thanks man. Yeah.

dex (27:07.176)

That's what a lot of them were. A lot of them were born out of me. I would just go in the other room and just start like, get an idea for a groove and then just start jamming with myself and, or I might have a progression, you know, or a feel of something. But I definitely like, I like to, I usually start with, with some kind of, you know, groove jumping off point.

Brian Funk (27:31.309)

Right. Then do you. Yeah, yeah, please.

dex (27:33.128)

See you a lot. Go ahead.

Yeah, but a lot of these did start on the drum kit. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (27:40.109)

Yeah. So then do you, do you just kind of like play a whole song on the drums or are you like cutting things up and rearranging?

dex (27:47.528)

Sometimes I would just go and record myself and just get a bit of something just so I would have a vibe to write to. Then once I had it, I would go in there and play it. Yeah, but sort of just use the drum kit as a little just... It was also just, again, another way for me to just be at the drum kit and try and become a better drummer. I've always messed around with drums, and I don't consider myself like some kind of... I mean, I have studio musician friends here that are like aces and can do anything. I'm not the guy to...

Brian Funk (28:00.109)

Right.

dex (28:17.159)

I've always liked playing drums and I played, kind of taught myself, I played in ska bands when I was a kid. That was like my first intro to playing drums.

Brian Funk (28:27.181)

nice.

Brian Funk (28:31.181)

That's hard drumming, it's usually pretty fast and a lot of incubation and stuff. Yeah.

dex (28:33.766)

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, actually the first recording session I ever did in like kind of a sort of a real studio was playing drums, not guitar, playing drums in a ska band. Yeah. Yeah. And the guy had like a, no, we were throw and go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I'm sure I was terrible. I haven't heard those recordings in a long time, but it was a fun band.

Brian Funk (28:46.541)

Hmm. Wow. Do click or just free back then, right? Yeah.

Brian Funk (28:59.961)

We played with so many ska bands. My band was like a rock indie rock kind of thing. And ska was just huge on Long Island in the late nineties, early two thousands. And we played so many ska shows and we were kind of like a little bit of, I think of a breath of fresh air. Cause after so much like, and horns and everything, and then different grooves was kind of welcome. It was.

dex (29:11.461)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

dex (29:20.869)

Yeah.

dex (29:24.293)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (29:29.357)

It was a very cool community and like people were just open to whatever was going on. He just went to shows. It's a ska show. There was an all ages show. So it wasn't, they weren't like cliques and you know, like, you guys aren't in the ska scene. Like it was like, no, play with us. You know, punk bands would get in there too.

dex (29:35.749)

Yeah.

Yeah.

dex (29:47.749)

huh. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (29:53.709)

Very welcoming kind of I guess like all that dancing the skanking You know like it's like just do it be silly. It's cool

dex (29:58.628)

yeah man, yeah.

dex (30:03.716)

Yeah, man. Yeah, we grew up on that kind of stuff. Like, you know, growing up in South Carolina, there was, I mean, there was a, there was a couple that lived there that were sort of like the, they really kind of helped glue the punk rock scene together there and they would help bring bands and put on shows there. And it was like, I don't know if it was like that where you lived, but we had like a VFW hall that we could, they would rent to put on these punk rock shows. And man, it was like, you know,

Brian Funk (30:29.421)

Yeah.

dex (30:32.227)

All kinds of bands came through there, Fugazi, like Jawbreaker, and just like, just tons of like bands, you know, would come through Florence, South Carolina and play at the EFW. And my buddy owned the, he owned the PA so he would show up and run sound for them. You know, yeah, it was a hoot, man. It was a really good time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got lucky.

Brian Funk (30:44.941)

sick.

Brian Funk (30:54.029)

That's cool to get bands like that.

Maybe in a way, you know, being away from the big city was an advantage because bands coming through like, well, we can put this VFW and, you know, where's...

dex (31:04.802)

Yeah. Yeah. Probably make some gas money on the way to, you know, the next city or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (31:10.797)

Yeah, right. I think maybe sometimes we got overshadowed by New York City venues and stuff like that. Yeah, Long Island's a little bit like, it's east of the city too. So it's, you gotta go out of your way if you're gonna go there. So we had some cool bands through there, but no one really that big was coming to our VFW, you know, all ages shows.

dex (31:16.834)

Because it was all there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

dex (31:24.482)

Yeah.

dex (31:28.258)

Yeah.

dex (31:34.338)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man, I spent some time on the Cross Island Parkway when I was up there. Yeah, I had a flat tire on the Cross Island one morning.

Brian Funk (31:42.253)

sorry. If I can avoid it. I'm not there. no. I don't know how everyone does it the way that thing is. It's just like pothole after pothole. It was worse than it is now.

dex (31:53.954)

yeah, man. Yeah, Nashville Nashville starting to get some that we had a really bad winter storm this year and the potholes around here were starting to resemble, you know, the BQE or something. Yeah.

Brian Funk (32:06.285)

Yeah, right. Yeah, we got all that. We'd be like, with our map quest directions, like trying to figure out why our car won't run anymore.

dex (32:15.169)

Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, I had a car the last few years I was in New York and I was actually living in like, Queens on Island, like, you know, where Elmont is. Yeah, I was, I was, I was, I was living in Elmont, the tail end of my stay up there. Yeah.

Brian Funk (32:22.893)

Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Hmm. Just outside the city, but still pretty close. Yeah. We're a little more suburban, I guess, where we are. Like, there's Queens, then you go into like Nassau County, and then the next county opens like where we're kind of like close to the border of those two counties, but.

dex (32:33.889)

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

dex (32:39.937)

Yeah.

dex (32:44.097)

Yeah.

dex (32:48.417)

Yeah, yeah man. Yeah. Fun times man. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, by the time I move to Nashville. What's that?

Brian Funk (32:50.829)

Yeah, those were fun times playing that kind of stuff. It's cool that... I was just going to say it's so cool that your first experience in the studio that was to be on the drum kit like that.

dex (33:06.015)

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, in the ska band. Yeah, it was a trip, man. I don't know why they asked me to do that, because all my friends knew I played guitar and they were like, you want to play drums in the ska band? The guy that was fronting it was like, his name was Jeff X, Jeff Frazier, and he had a band called Uptight, which was like some of the OG punk rockers. And we all really looked up to him. And the fact that he asked me to play drums in his ska band, I was like, shit, man, Jeff X wants me to be in his band. This is fucking cool.

I better learn how to do this. And so I go in there and I really didn't know how to play. And I taught myself how to play. And because I didn't know any better, I learned how to play open -handed. So my left hand was on the hi -hat, as opposed to crossing over. So yeah.

Brian Funk (33:36.941)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (33:48.365)

Mm -hmm, right. Yeah. I feel like I see more and more people doing that, that kind of play. I don't know why, but much more common than at least I used to think it was.

dex (33:54.271)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're out there.

dex (34:01.407)

Yeah, yeah, I kind of came around finally. Yeah, it made sense to me because you kind of you could have your right hand and move around the toms while you're still keeping the hi -hat. I didn't know.

Brian Funk (34:03.693)

That kind of makes sense, I guess, but.

Brian Funk (34:12.205)

Yeah.

Yeah, the first drummer I played with was a lefty and he had a left -handed kit. So when I was first dabbling on the drums, I was learning lefty. So when it was time to switch, I was trying to cross and it was hard, but eventually that's always like one of my favorite parts of band practices when we decide to switch instruments and I get to play some drums.

dex (34:25.407)

Yeah.

dex (34:30.557)

Yeah.

dex (34:38.717)

Totally man. Yeah, same here. I was always looking to get on the drum kit and off the guitar. Annoy everybody.

Brian Funk (34:44.173)

Yeah. To thank my parents again for letting band practice be at our house. Often the drums got left in the basement. So after practice, I just said, okay, let's figure this out. Yeah.

dex (34:55.197)

Dude, that's exactly what happened in my house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't have a kit. I didn't own a kit, but my drummer friends would leave it over there. And, you know, I'd go home from school and go in there and just bug out. And of course, when mom came home from work at 530, it was like, all right, enough of that.

Brian Funk (35:11.341)

Yeah. Yeah, it's a little different when it's someone that can play versus like a kid that just wants to smash things.

dex (35:18.717)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Looking back, I wish I had taken more seriously and, you know, taking some drum lessons and I kind of skipped over piano lessons. I had an opportunity to take piano lessons. Like, I don't know, it's like guitar, you know, but and even at Manhattan school, I didn't take piano all that seriously because I was like, I don't know, I play a harmonic instrument. What do I need that for? You know, but but I come around to it. I really like sitting at the piano and the fun, a fun inspirational tool for for writing, you know.

Brian Funk (35:31.757)

Mm.

Brian Funk (35:39.629)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (35:48.653)

Mm -hmm. Well, it's hard, you know, you've like already done your time learning the guitar and to have to start over on something else is like, you know, that's why I have so many people that don't get too far on an instrument too. It's, it's hard to learn. I always tell people ask me, like kids will ask me like, is it hard? I'm like, it's hard. It's not impossible. But yeah, like I don't want to lie to you. Like you could definitely do it, but.

dex (35:55.004)

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

dex (36:04.412)

Yeah, yeah.

dex (36:14.556)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (36:17.709)

I'm not gonna tell you you're gonna be great and then have you be disappointed that you haven't figured it out in the first few weeks. Like, it's, take some time.

dex (36:24.668)

Yeah, man, gotta put the time in. I mean, I don't shed like I used to. You know, I used to just 10 hours a day just being there trying to play Charlie Parker on a guitar or whatever and all that. You kind of got to do that to be great at playing jazz, which is part of the reason why I don't really do it that much anymore. Cause I just, you know, I like making records that I'm not sitting around here, you know, immersed in that kind of thing. And, you know, you got to live that to be great at it. And I don't really live that anymore. And, you know, I mean, I got, I've gotten really lucky to.

Brian Funk (36:32.397)

Yeah, wow.

dex (36:54.139)

get to make a living making records and very thankful that somehow or another the music business hasn't fired me yet.

Brian Funk (37:02.125)

Well, you can always make your own records, right?

dex (37:05.946)

Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, we'll see if I do another one. I'm super thankful to have made it this far with that one. And, you know, but I love the idea of just making stuff and making records for other people is I still get a lot of joy out of it. But it was nice to make something where it was just for me. That didn't have to wasn't, you know, anything could, you know, anything goes.

Brian Funk (37:28.205)

Yeah. Yeah. I was saying before, like I really like the sound of the drums, the playing, you know, it's like, it's enough and it's not over the top, which I always appreciate. And I wanted to ask you a little bit just about like how you recorded them, because I also really like just the...

dex (37:44.09)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (37:52.941)

Yeah, your cymbals are very controlled, your hi -hats are controlled. Sometimes I struggle with that myself when I'm recording drums, like they just get a little too much. Wondering how you went about that.

dex (37:58.202)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I definitely had to go through a lot of like figuring out how like just getting the right volume on the hi hat as a drummer. It's like, I realized, man, like my friends that come over and hire to play on records. Now I realized like, this is why I like that guy so much. Cause he knows how to like, he knows how to get all the right volumes and velocities. So that like, when you go to mix it, it's not some mess that you're, that you have to like puzzle. You have to solve, you know? So there was a lot of just like, you know, wrist as opposed to arm.

Brian Funk (38:29.997)

Right.

dex (38:34.424)

as it related to the hi -hat especially. I definitely spent a lot of time listening and watching some of the great R &B funk drummers like James Gaz and people like that that are masters of just like that. That kind of sound. But recording wise, it was all pretty basic. Some of the stuff was one microphone.

Brian Funk (38:50.829)

Right.

dex (38:59.608)

some of it was just one microphone. Let me just go in here and make a loop and see if this is cool. And then it was like, that's actually what it is, you know? But for the most part, you know, I barely even miced the hi hat, you know?

Brian Funk (39:12.173)

Yeah, I usually don't either because I can't get it out of all the other mics anyway.

dex (39:16.472)

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy how that thing just like sneaks into the everything snare drum, especially, you know. Yeah. So half the time when we record hi -hat, we don't even end up using it over a year, you know. So, but yeah, it was very, very basic, you know, kick snare overhead. I think it was mostly mono overhead on that stuff. You know, I would mic the toms 421s on the toms, you know, but

Brian Funk (39:22.989)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Brian Funk (39:45.389)

Right.

dex (39:46.008)

Yeah, 57 on the snare, just real simple, basic, nothing crazy, you know.

Brian Funk (39:50.933)

I'm coming to appreciate the one overhead approach. mostly by mistake. I've got like stereo pair, you know, like an XY over the overhead. And I've always liked that, but I've recorded something not too long ago where I just had one of the mics volume all the way down. So it recorded so low, but.

dex (40:05.206)

Yeah.

dex (40:17.398)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (40:19.277)

It put the cymbals and everything like kind of off to the side a little. And I had all this room now. It was still in that other speaker a little bit, but it was like, like this acoustic guitar fits so nice here now instead of like battling everything.

dex (40:22.838)

Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

dex (40:32.918)

Right. Man, acoustic guitar and cymbals just do not get along, do they?

Brian Funk (40:39.853)

Sometimes there's a magic that happens where they're they're almost sound like the same thing and they they just really work well but a lot of times one wins the fight.

dex (40:45.046)

Yeah.

Yeah.

dex (40:51.702)

Yeah, for sure, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (40:54.829)

That approach I found was by accident again. I was like, I kind of like that. Try some more of that.

dex (40:59.574)

Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of times it's, whatever could get me an idea going quicker, as opposed to like trying to do more, you know, marvelous, fancy engineering tricks. It's like, I don't know. What have I got? What can I put on this so that I can keep going? And you know what I mean?

Brian Funk (41:14.541)

Yeah.

Right. Well, I learned that lesson when I got my ADATs, actually. I was getting a little, like, I didn't know anything and I was getting obsessed with trying to put the mics in the right place. I had a compressor that I didn't even know what it did, but I knew I needed one.

dex (41:31.988)

same here I was like I don't know I need this I don't know what it does yeah yeah

Brian Funk (41:35.213)

It's on, I'm supposed to make it sound better. But I made this kind of decision. I'm just going to not worry about any of that stuff and just record it. And even if I record it terribly, it's going to sound way better than my four track cassette recorder. Like I make every mistake in the book, it's still going to sound much better. And I let go of that. And suddenly like the actual work started happening, you know, and then I was learning from it by just.

dex (41:52.276)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (42:04.493)

making mistakes and fixing them the next time.

dex (42:06.004)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (42:09.261)

So much better than spending an afternoon trying to put them all in the right place. And then kind of like you said, like I don't even hardly know what I'm recording yet. A lot of times what I write after I record something is based on how that recording came out anyway. So you sort of need something to work with first before you start making the next decision.

dex (42:17.812)

Yeah.

dex (42:25.492)

Yeah, yeah.

Totally, man. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, like I don't consider myself like an audiophile or anything. I mean, we've got a couple of knees and you know, we're APIs and we've been using these, what are they called, UTA preamps. But you know, all the stuff we're doing over here is pretty basic, you know what I mean? I'm still like,

you know, obsessed with like a cool song, sung by a cool singer more than like what it got recorded to. Cause ultimately nobody, nobody's going to be like, man, I really liked that song. Like what's that? You know, how did you get that snare sound? Nobody really cares. Like does the song make you feel good? You know?

Brian Funk (43:17.261)

Yeah.

Right, and a bad song recorded well. Who cares? But a great song recorded even poorly, sometimes you start to grow to like that about it. It's got a sound or a feel.

dex (43:23.57)

Right? Exactly. Yeah.

dex (43:30.482)

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Man, limitations or there's something to it, man. Like, I definitely feel like some of the stuff I've done in my creative life have been, you know, served better by having less options, you know. And I feel like I've made some bad records on the eaves and tape machines as well. You know what I mean?

Brian Funk (43:49.973)

Definitely.

Brian Funk (43:58.573)

Did you record the tape? Sounds like it could have been. Yeah, it's got like that vibe of like it, lots of saturation and warmth to it.

dex (44:00.466)

Not on my record. Yeah, no.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, no, man, it's a, it's all Pro Tools record. Yep. Yep. You know, and I started messing around with Ableton over the pandemic, you know, I mean, I got my start on Logic. Logic was my first sort of love digital audio workstation wise, but always enough in Pro Tools now to mix. But yeah, probably, probably be fun to flip this interview around and

Brian Funk (44:13.257)

It's cool.

Brian Funk (44:26.637)

Yeah.

dex (44:37.744)

Talk to you about Abel.

Brian Funk (44:39.757)

I love it. When I first got a computer and I sold by this like nice Tascam board from the 80s, you know, I sold that to get a laptop and kind of miss it now. But I got Pro Tools because I didn't know what else to get. It was, I think that was 2005 and that was the only thing I'd ever heard of Pro Tools. But I went to Logic for a while. I really liked Logic a lot. But...

dex (44:49.551)

Yeah.

dex (45:06.255)

Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Funk (45:10.093)

That was right around when YouTube was starting to become something you could actually learn from instead of just like silly videos. So every time I was looking up how to use a compressor, how to EQ, how to whatever, it was, people were always using Ableton Live. And I'm like, like, wow, what is so, and I had it from my pro tools. I had like this early version of it and I didn't understand it. It looked like a spreadsheet to me when I first opened it. So.

dex (45:16.783)

Yeah.

dex (45:25.359)

Yeah.

dex (45:37.455)

same.

Brian Funk (45:39.693)

But because of all those tutorials and all that stuff I was finding online, I was like, let me try this Ableton thing, see what it's all about. And then I fell in love. I was rewiring it into Logic for a while. And then I realized I was doing everything in live. Why am I opening Logic anymore? So that's just how I landed on it. Really. I found it to be really like,

dex (45:45.679)

Yeah. Yeah.

dex (45:52.847)

huh.

Brian Funk (46:11.021)

friendly as a songwriter.

Brian Funk (46:15.805)

did we freeze? I think we froze.

Brian Funk (46:30.381)

Hello? Hey, man, it's Dan. Hey. Yeah, it looks like we froze or something. Yeah, so I noticed that.

Brian Funk (46:41.997)

Brian Funk (46:50.957)

right, because it does, I guess it does the same on the phone. It records into your computer and then uploads it and then it goes away.

Brian Funk (47:08.237)

Hmm.

That's alright.

Brian Funk (47:29.197)

Yeah, I'm sorry too, I don't want you to delete anything important.

Brian Funk (47:42.381)

I know that message, I was getting that on my phone recently and I was like, no, I have to delete my voice memos.

Brian Funk (47:51.757)

My text messages, that was killing me actually.

Brian Funk (48:14.285)

That's funny, it just like kicked you right out too. That's like, you're no good anymore.

Brian Funk (48:35.949)

Version 1, version 2, version 3. Final. Real final.

Brian Funk (48:47.917)

Yep. I think there's a meme of that somewhere.

Brian Funk (49:13.453)

Okay. Cool.

Brian Funk (50:27.693)

All right, I see ya.

Brian Funk (50:35.021)

Yeah, yeah, whatever we want really, but yeah, okay.

Brian Funk (50:54.605)

I need...

yeah. Yeah, you don't want to do that and then nothing works anymore.

Yeah. where were we? I was talking about something for a while before I realized you were gone. I was like, wait, you're not moving. It's just you.

I think I was talking about like using live or something, just kind of my... All right, I'll wrap up what I was saying about that, I guess. We'll just go in. What I was saying was I was using live so much and not using Logic. What I found out I loved about live was it felt more like a songwriting tool, like where the studio was an instrument.

And a lot of working with Pro Tools especially and then even Logic, I felt like I was almost making music against the computer instead of with it. Yeah, it was just, I really liked the session view for getting ideas down and like kind of like you said, like jamming with yourself. That's a cool workflow. Yeah.

Brian Funk (52:26.829)

yeah, the device, the looper. Yeah, that's a cool one. I mean, yeah, it's like I haven't used it in a while and you mentioned, I'm like, yeah, right. There's so many cool things you can do with it.

Brian Funk (52:44.525)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (52:54.701)

I heard a couple tracks that had some cool like reverse swells going on and I wasn't really sure like a string or some kind of like synth or something played backwards.

Brian Funk (53:11.117)

Nice. Real Melotron. Wow, with the tape.

Brian Funk (53:18.637)

Okay. But the actual instrument? Yeah, that's so cool. How do you like that?

Yeah.

Brian Funk (53:47.917)

Nice.

Brian Funk (53:58.285)

Yeah, there's a lot of cool synth sounds on the record. A lot of subtle stuff too. You know, I was listening to a couple of tracks where I was like, you know, it's, I was like, it's really full, but there's not much going on and you sort of have to like deconstruct it a little bit. And I was like, listen to that. That's sort of like a jangly thing. Real probably low pass filter, real gentle, just, just offering like atmosphere and texture.

real tasteful.

Brian Funk (54:39.693)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (54:46.349)

Yeah. You know, I have this analogy I think about a lot and it's like my classrooms that teach high school English and music production classes too. And when there's a few people, like maybe up to like 20, you have individuals. You have like, there's Dex, there's Brian, there's, you know, once it gets to like 25, 30, it's a group. It's one group. You know, it's like music too, like.

If you like on your track, I could hear like, there's some keys, there's some bass, drum part, vocals, and like something else textural. But if you had like, then like horns and strings and then it's just music. It's just a layer of music going on.

(End of transcript due to error -90210SteveSanders)

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