Creative Confidence with LNA - Music Production Podcast #400

podcast
Written By Brian Funk

Liina Turtonen, aka LNA, is a musician, producer, and educator, who runs the LNA Does Audio Stuff YouTube Channel. Liina is an Ableton Certified Trainer and just released her book Creative Confidence and Music Production: Overcome Your Insecurities. 

LNA and I discussed her new book and the inspiration behind writing it. She shared insights that have helped her and her students get past creative blocks and insecurities. 

Listen on Apple, Spotify, YouTube

Takeaways:

  • LNA's journey to authorship was unexpected due to her dyslexia.

  • Creative confidence is essential for artists to overcome insecurities.

  • Art is often undervalued despite its significant role in society.

  • Vulnerability is necessary for authentic creative expression.

  • Insecurities often stem from past experiences and external judgments.

  • Recognizing negative thought patterns is the first step to overcoming them.

  • Acceptance of emotions is crucial in the creative process.

  • It's important to create without the fear of judgment from others.

  • Life is short; take risks and pursue your passions.

  • Embrace the mindset of 'why not?' to unlock creativity.

  • Consistency in your efforts is more important than perfection.

  • Being comfortable in your mediocrity can be liberating.

  • Curiosity keeps life interesting and fulfilling.

  • You never know who you might inspire by pursuing your passions.

  • The journey of creativity is often more valuable than the end result.

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Thank you for listening. 

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:00.939)

All right, and now we're on. What is up? Nice to see you.

LNA (00:04.91)

Nice to see you. It's been like three years, isn't it? Or something.

Brian Funk (00:08.913)

It's been a little bit, yeah. I've been watching your stuff though and still a big fan and of course I'm very happy for you that you've got your book out. Creative Confidence in Music Production, Overcoming Your Insecurities. It's something we talk about a lot here. So, congrats.

LNA (00:15.288)

Thank you.

LNA (00:27.05)

Yeah, thank you. I'm very excited that it's now out because I've been writing it for like five years and it's coming to the point. Yeah, yeah, and it's been definitely a passion. Yes, I can. Here it is, my baby.

Brian Funk (00:36.229)

Yeah, I remember you talking about it last time we spoke.

Can you hold it up? Show everybody.

Yes, it's real. It's very nice to have something physical like that, isn't it?

LNA (00:48.416)

It's real.

It's so pretty, isn't it though? I wanted to keep it like very white and like approachable. So I'm very proud of that.

Brian Funk (00:53.189)

Yeah, very nice design.

Brian Funk (00:58.735)

Hmm. Looks great.

So it's been a big journey for you. Five years or so, you said.

LNA (01:09.064)

Yeah, it's definitely and I never thought I'm gonna write a book. It was not in the cards for me, I would say, because well, I'm dyslexic. I'm basically a school failure. I was not ever gonna be an academic. So I'm very neurodiverse. And I feel like the idea of me being an author was never, never a thing that I would have ever thought of.

Luckily, I was approached by Rootledge like four or five years ago and just being like, hey, do you have any book ideas? Would you like to write a book? And I was like, sure. Just literally thought, okay, something that I was already at that point starting to talk on my channel about was creative confidence. And I guess it all started from my master's degree where I wrote my thesis about Push 2 and how Push 2 affects creativity.

So then that started making more questions. Well, how does tech affect our creativity? How does the industry affects our creativity? what, how does then, you know, how does all that affect confidence and therefore confidence affects our creativity? And it became this lots of questions and I was like, sure, let me write a book about that. And they accepted it. And that's, that's how it, and then I was like, shit, I really need to write a book now.

Brian Funk (02:33.018)

Hehehehe

LNA (02:33.838)

So and now it's written and I'm yeah, I'm published author and I still can't believe it. It's been very much ironic thing to write a book about confidence as someone who's feeling a lot of insecurities and not don't feel confident about any of this But maybe that's the point Who wants to hurt who wants to learn about confidence from a person who says that they're confident?

Brian Funk (02:52.955)

Mm-hmm.

I think so.

Brian Funk (03:01.713)

I think you kind of have to know what the insecurities are a little bit. You gotta go through it some. And I could certainly imagine maybe people that are not like artists even, just whether it's writers, producers, musicians, anything like that, to just sort of think, you're just playing your musical instrument, you're painting, you're just writing stories. And...

LNA (03:05.934)

Mm.

LNA (03:23.82)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (03:26.809)

What's there to be insecure with that? It's because it's almost like a play thing. It's and for some people just pure hobby, pure enjoyment and. But funny enough.

LNA (03:30.83)

Everything.

LNA (03:36.01)

Mm hmm. But I think, yeah, and I feel like that's where like, I have a whole thing there about like, the value of art and what that means. And I think we're inherently, pre-enwish to think that there is no value in art, even though art comes from us naturally, but then same time, we punish ourselves when it comes out of us. And we think that we shouldn't make it, we shouldn't do it. And then we feel like everybody else is going to judge us while we do it. So there's so many

such a deep level of conflict of ourselves hating ourselves of doing it or not thinking that we should have the time when we have other responsibilities. Like we had a quick chat before this podcast started. It's like the world is burning but here we are making art and we are just, you know, like, does it even matter? And there's this like, it just such a strong idea that

Art doesn't have value, even though it's the one thing that we probably consume more than food, like the same amount of them food in this world. everything in this world has art, music, all around it. And in history, it has always existed in such a big part of our culture and humanity one way or another. And it's amazing how we have able to complicate it.

Brian Funk (04:40.049)

Mm.

LNA (05:04.149)

and punish ourselves for it.

Brian Funk (05:09.051)

I suppose it's a little bit of a luxury, right, that we get to do it. We're not, if you're worried about survival, if you're worried about those types of things, it's hard to dedicate the time and energy to it. So maybe there's that, but it's also just so important for us, for our survival really, to have that.

LNA (05:21.902)

Hmm.

LNA (05:26.005)

It can be.

LNA (05:34.434)

That's exactly it. Imagine how much example like music, listening to music has been amazing tool for people to have that moment of escapism or moment of feeling the feelings that you didn't manage to feel by yourself. But then suddenly, you listen to a song that reminds you of something and suddenly you can expose those feelings that you've been bottling up or there's something that is really good is that

My husband is an antics dealer and he's talking about like things like trench art. And, you know, it's just art, like people in trenches in the middle of war, like making art out of whatever they find. like seeker, seeker boxes or something. And it's one way or another. It's it brings hope. It brings beauty. And one way or another, it will always be with us one way or another. And I think that is

something that when we feel shit about it or we feel we shouldn't do it because it's a privilege or something we need to remember that like we we are we we do have the rights for for arts because it's something that is very natural and we are not really responsible of art coming through us if that makes sense and i feel like you know we should just let it happen

Brian Funk (06:57.585)

Yeah.

LNA (07:01.804)

and embrace it and accept it. Yeah.

Brian Funk (07:06.073)

I think that sort of permission aspect is interesting that you...

LNA (07:09.869)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (07:11.971)

Sometimes you could feel like, well, who am I? Like you kind of said almost, who am I to write a book? Who am I to make a song? Who am I to do this? And to connect it actually back to the trench art you just mentioned, one of my favorite classes I took in college was called Literature of World War I. And it was about soldiers. was all the writing was poems from soldiers or letters from soldiers. And they were just literally in the trenches like that and creating the

LNA (07:17.431)

100%.

LNA (07:36.334)

Mm.

Brian Funk (07:41.887)

stuff and it has such a profound perspective first of all just from what they're seeing but it's also got a like an amateur feeling to it I mean some of it was amazing too but there was this kind of yeah like a home brew kind of feeling but it's such a great window into what the people there were going through that you don't get in the textbook and

LNA (07:47.47)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (07:54.37)

The naivety, sometimes.

Mm-hmm.

LNA (08:06.062)

100%. Yeah.

Brian Funk (08:10.179)

It's so important that people did that stuff.

LNA (08:13.07)

100%. And I think you're kind of key thing where what I kind of talk in the book and what I've kind of figured out through the whole process is that imagine a music industry right now, example, the kind of insecurities that we go through and we are allowed to go through in our lives. It's the idea of that how much

actually the art that we make is fully authentic, fully us, fully telling our story and our whatever we are feeling and how much is it actually impacted by others and the industry and everything around us. Because if you look at that, if you look at these kind of certain where art has come from a difficult places or where it's only the person and the art and there's no other pressure and there's nothing out there is only the pure raw naivety and the

the expression of the art. But I feel like what happens nowadays in our art that we make, we're so afraid, we're constantly afraid, we're afraid of being singled out, have fear of failure, that maybe our tracks are not perfect, fear that we might not be the wonderful selected

person that will be found out. Maybe we're not special. Maybe all these things and thoughts that come to us when we are creating mold what we create as much as we like to say that it's romanticized the idea that we sit down with our sins and we start creating and suddenly this thought comes to us and it's authentically us. In our current world it rarely is.

Brian Funk (09:46.502)

Hmm.

LNA (10:08.844)

because it's so filtered with our identity, who we think we are, who we want to put out of ourselves so that other people will accept us and we will be loved and we will be noticed, which is the primal human need is to be needed and feel like we matter. So it's really fascinating because when I talk about any of these topics and why is it important to talk about it in music production,

Brian Funk (10:25.041)

Right?

LNA (10:37.622)

I feel like we focus so much on just techniques and what's side chaining or what's an EQ and what does compressor do. All of that is important, but they're in the end, they're just the pressures for artists. They are just the tool of understanding how something we can capture a moment in time and put that on canvas. But I feel like what we don't talk about in this industry.

Brian Funk (10:55.313)

Mm.

LNA (11:07.23)

is why the hell we feel so much and why all of this that and we all are crippled with anxiety when we create and I'm generalizing that because what I've seen I haven't met anyone who wouldn't be somehow impacted by this society or our industry of you know of feeling anxiety about it and I grew up with the artist's mother who like

I've seen creating all my life and I've been part of these industries or different art industries for all my life. And I feel like it's such a big part of it. But I also do think that when it's maybe time to start talking about it and call it, say that there's no shame in feeling insecure or feeling plucked or feeling overwhelmed or feeling

like it's too much or that you feel lost. Does that make sense? That became a really big bridge to this topic.

Brian Funk (12:14.097)

Well, from my research, I can agree with your findings that I've never found anyone that said it was easy, that they just do it and like the critic gets out of the way and they're just able to, you know, unload their artistic powers. It's always difficult for everybody, people you think like just have it figured out that make it look so easy, they still go through it.

LNA (12:25.656)

Yeah.

LNA (12:38.144)

my God, And you know what was one of the best interviews for the book was with Susan Rogers, Prince's producer. And in my book, there's a story of Susan telling about Prince and Prince's creative blocks and how he came over them. I was like, Prince had creative blocks. Everybody has creative blocks, but why don't we talk about them?

Brian Funk (13:01.745)

Crazy.

LNA (13:07.532)

And I think there is just the amount of shame and the feeling of failure. I just put on threads the other day about something about this topic. And someone went to this massive ramble about saying how we should have books written by people who failed.

and tell their story. And I was like, yeah, I kind of agree. But what do you mean with that? I feel like inherently that sentence is quite difficult and a loaded, a toxic in a sense of what do you mean? Like the idea that only way to not fail is to make it to the superstardom.

Brian Funk (13:45.649)

Yeah, it's a little bit loaded.

LNA (13:59.874)

That's basically it. have this like idea of what success means to all of us. And as much as nobody wants to admit it, and there's people who are like, no, I'm doing art for art's sake. Yes, I'm sure many of us want to, but we also live in this world where like, it's like, you might still feel failure if you've...

like you're secretly waiting, like you put that track out there, you kind of wait in that it has some kind of reaction, something happens, you become a legend, you become this massive thing. And I feel like I challenged the idea that there would be anyone who wouldn't expect that somewhere secretly inside. And I think admitting to that feeling that we, I feel I would say that we all have, or we have

across at least once in our lives that we're hoping that tomorrow I put a track out today and tomorrow morning I will wake up it being viral and you know I don't know I just I just think if we don't ex if we don't receive that it's considered a failure but isn't that sad because then where does it leave us

Brian Funk (15:02.554)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (15:24.216)

Where does that thought process leave any of us? Because the fact is that most of us don't even want that life. The superstardom. I don't. I've thought in a way maybe that I wanted fame at one point. I always said I didn't. But maybe I kinda did. Until I grew up a little bit older and realized I have so many sensory issues that I probably...

freaking would hate it so much. I wouldn't have social energy for any of that. And on the top of the top of that, I'm so multifaceted person that I love doing so I'm a project person. love a project. And I just want to live doing so many projects in my life. And it could be music at the same time as writing a book is doing this and doing that.

And if I would commit fully just to do music and for the super stardom, I wouldn't be happy. So why do we not find what makes us happy and what suits us personally and find that as a definition of success for us instead of keep on secretly dreaming for something that wouldn't even suit us. But because we don't talk about these topics, nobody opens it up.

and be like, I've had that secret thought. And yeah, maybe that wouldn't actually suit me. Or maybe it does. Maybe you still want it. And that's cool as well. But I'm just saying, like, I feel most people.

Does it suit with your family wanting to have one place to live, not wanting to go for tours forever, like months and months? Do you know what mean?

Brian Funk (17:15.313)

Definitely. Well, we're all the star of our movie, right? And that's the only perspective we ever get is our own.

LNA (17:22.007)

See.

LNA (17:25.589)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (17:25.775)

I can only ever see this through my eyes. So I think it's sort of, maybe this is a survival thing that it makes us feel really important. So why won't everyone else think I'm so important? And when we discover that we're at best an extra in everyone else's movie, probably an uncredited extra even, we don't even make the credits. That's.

LNA (17:40.5)

Yeah.

LNA (17:49.294)

But not even that, I feel like it's okay to be your own superstar, your own thing. But I guess the issue again with that is that we're constantly just asking other people validation, like other people's validation determines our value. Are we the extra or are we the main character? It doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter whether you are anything for anyone else.

It only matters what you are to yourself, because in the end, as you said, we're the only ones who live through it and only ones who live through with ourselves for the rest of our lives. So why are we so concerned about the value that other people put on us? I know that we all want validation. I all know that we are very much of a... humans are very much of a creature that wants to be accepted and doesn't want to be the odd one out.

But if we want it so much, can, we can also sacrifice so much of like of ourselves and things that we actually want and actually make us happy. Cause we're just trying to find love from somewhere where, and it's quite cheesy to say, but like you kind of need to give it to yourself, the validation and the love and not just keep on looking at it from the other side and from the...

external sources, but it's really hard to get to that point. And I feel like it's a thing that because it comes from so much for anyone like from so far somewhere in our back in our childhood probably.

Brian Funk (19:33.573)

Yeah, well, we're, as a species, not very exciting on our own, right? Like, if we're in the wild, we don't have sharp claws or teeth or big muscles or slow, can't, we can sing, right? Yeah. But we needed to be accepted by the group to survive. The people that weren't did not pass their genes on. And...

LNA (19:46.318)

We can sing though.

LNA (19:56.971)

Exactly.

LNA (20:01.386)

Exactly. But

Brian Funk (20:03.183)

we still feel that almost that shame in it too, when it's such a deeply ingrained feeling that that

LNA (20:06.636)

Hmm

LNA (20:10.798)

But now we're 2025, we still need to believe that need?

Brian Funk (20:15.333)

Yeah. Yeah, it's changed a bit where it's not so much that way, but we still have that programming that we're working with.

LNA (20:23.374)

And of course having love, like everybody needs it. feel like it's not even always the, like, I feel something that needs to be said also is that having community around you, having people that give you that validation, but you need to ask it from the right places. Cause something that I've realized is that the least, the least,

the most likely the people who don't give you validation. Let's say, okay, you put your track out. You've been working on it for years or months or weeks or whatever, how long it takes you to make a track and you've put it out. They're super excited. You put so much into yourself, into it and you just put it out and you share it to your family and your friends and they don't give a shit. And most likely your family and friends give the least amount of shits about your art.

And this is something I see a pattern over and over and over in all like creatives is that the people closest to you, the people that you want validation the most are most likely not to give it to you. But I also then have found that example, have my absolutely amazing Patreon community that is all about creative confidence. So we don't...

give unsolicited feedback there. We are completely just like, you are coming here, you accept everybody, you don't give feedback if they don't ask feedback, and you can ask whatever you want to ask, and you are not going to be judged in any way. And only thing you need to do is here, create, and we celebrate creation, and you just post it. And that can be it. Nothing, you don't need to be always better. You don't need to be your best. You can just exist and create.

And I feel like having communities like that is where you can ask for the validation. That's where you should go and ask because those people understand you. They understand what you're going through. They understand what you need. So I feel like one thing that we need to stop asking is asking validation from the wrong places, the places that we're never going to get it. And you know, you're not going to get it from. And we need to collect around us the people that will

LNA (22:43.544)

give it to you and will, and also stop expecting for those people to give the validation that you want from. example, your spouse can be absolutely like giving all the, like best friend or something like really close. They might be super supportive in so many ways, but then there can be a moment where they just can like give you a certain

validation that you're requiring. So stop asking from it there because you can't change anyone else. can't be responsible of what other people do. It's not healthy for anyone to try to force anyone to give you what you need. So go and find the people that you can get it from. That was a very long way to say that. So we still need people, but we need to find the right people.

Brian Funk (23:44.069)

makes a lot of sense because that will only breed frustration on both sides. I don't know what you want me to tell you. It sounds nice. What do want me to say? I want you to tell me that I EQ'd the snare drum just right and like well I don't know what that means.

LNA (23:51.5)

Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah, the kick sounds... Yeah, the kick sounds fire. Can't you not hear it? Yeah, exactly. But then imagine like you find people who get it. So why don't you go and get it from there? But then same time, we need safe spaces for that as well, where we know we're not going to get judged. And this is something that I've noticed through my Patreon. And I don't know if it's because I'm a woman.

Brian Funk (24:03.727)

Right, what's a kick?

LNA (24:28.046)

So it might be that as a music production community, it's quite rare that it has literally every gender in there. And we have such an amazing amount of people. what I've noticed is that as a woman, I always needed those spaces because no space has ever been safe for me. It's not automatic for me to assume that place will be a safe for me. I assume that it's not safe for me.

until it's proven otherwise. That's my as a professional, as anyone, any as a woman going to any space ever. That's my my assumption is that it will not be safe for me. But what I've noticed is that all the men who are in my community, they are like, what? Like they feel like this realm is like a weight off their shoulders that suddenly they don't need to.

be like, I can do this, I can do that. They don't need to like, they can just literally be themselves as well. They can cry, they can feel emotions, they can ask questions, they're not gonna be judged. And I'm very strict about the rules of how people are supposed to act towards each other in there. And I need to monetize that. No, monetize, monitor, monetize that. That was the wrong word.

Brian Funk (25:51.601)

I need to cash in on that. I knew what you meant. That's great. Yes, absolutely.

LNA (25:55.306)

Yeah, it's like I'm gonna cash in into this men's tears. No, but you got what I mean though. It's like I've noticed that we always talk about say spaces for women and gender minorities, but I need I noticed that we need that for men as well a lot in these spaces because those will show that, you know,

the creativity that happens when someone can just exist and they don't need to be more. They don't need to... Like as a woman, always like, I need to always be safe first and then I can exist and just be. I need to always prove myself first and then I can just be the producer in this space. I need to first give everybody my CV and then I can just chill. But as a man, I feel like it's so often that you come to the space and you need to, they're still...

levels of competition or something like energy or, you know, who knows the most, who does the most, who has the best likes. There's always this like energy of like, people just like, just exist and show vulnerability. And as soon as I've seen a community where this is possible, the art that comes out of it is just absolutely amazing because people can just chill and just be themselves, whatever that looks like.

Brian Funk (27:23.139)

It requires vulnerability to express yourself, to share your ideas, even, especially when you're not comfortable with them, you're still working them out yourself, you're still figuring it out. And if you feel like you have to be constantly, know, puffing your chest and all that. I think that's why there are certain gyms people can go to that are...

LNA (27:26.872)

Yes.

LNA (27:34.03)

Hmm.

LNA (27:42.968)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (27:50.693)

you know, have like certain rules against like machoisms that go on in gyms often. And they might have even been designed with women in mind, but a lot of men like that because, because I know a lot of people that would never go to the gym because they're like, I'm not like that. And it's like, well, that's not, yeah. Yeah.

LNA (27:57.528)

Yeah.

LNA (28:02.318)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (28:08.247)

Yeah. My husband was like that for ages because he didn't feel comfortable with that. So it's like, I think we forget that from these conversations, but then how would you know that because the world is made, so all the spaces in the world are made for men. And I'm there as a guest, especially audio spaces. I'm there just as a guest, but it's all made for men. So how would...

men know how to then feel, show that we're an ability because like, mine comes from the fact of fear or just need the need for it. So if you never needed that, but you just existed in those spaces all your life without questioning that you actually needed something, maybe it's really hard to see that or recognize it and then see that that's actually needed.

as well. I feel like audio space, especially it's you go to any or all like Ableton Live, you know, user group on Facebook or you go to any of these things. And it's just quite tense. Like sometimes I just feel like.

I don't know. just feel like sometimes that if people could just fully just be themselves without any peacocking, any any of that, that fight to prove or, I don't know, boasting or any of that. I just wondered how audio communities could be.

Brian Funk (29:46.843)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (29:52.965)

Yeah, I guess whenever you get into something, you want to feel like you belong there. And one way to feel like you belong there is to brag about what you can do or what you know. And it's rooted a lot of times in that kind of insecurity that maybe I don't belong here. But when it can be established, like you're saying, yeah, nice.

LNA (30:00.077)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (30:16.376)

There is a whole chapter here about those insecurities, exactly as you said. Yeah.

Brian Funk (30:22.009)

And what you're saying is nice, it's like, it's okay to be, you know, even like just not at your best even wherever you are. That not every single thing you do has to be like your finest work and...

LNA (30:30.926)

Mm.

LNA (30:36.002)

this, this topic. You don't even need to like everything you make. Like imagine, like as creatives, as we talked about creativity a lot already, like how in earth as humans we could always make good art. Isn't that pretty like arrogant in a sense of us assume, especially when you're learning.

Brian Funk (30:59.002)

Yeah.

LNA (31:03.786)

everything that you make will be a hit song. Or that even if you are someone who makes a lot of hit songs and you're on the top of the food chain up there making a lot of money out of it, that even you could then still be someone who can make hit song. Like the issue with music production is that we don't show the learning process. We don't show learning process online. We don't show how it is to make

even as a professional tracks that actually sound horrible because that happens and it's true and it happens a lot and we all do it but we don't again talk about it because it's a taboo it's a thing so as soon as we are creatives and we're our studio we think no it's the fault is in us so what i've started to say to my patrons is that every single month

You need to reward. We're rewarding the fact that you sit down by your computer or by your sense and you started creating. We're rewarding that. We're not rewarding the outcome because as soon as we start rewarding outcome and we do, you know, competitions where people like we value people's tracks, who's good or bad. Like you can't fail in creativity. I am nobody to tell if someone's track is good or bad. Who am I to say?

if someone's art is valuable or not valuable. Who does that benefit in any way? And who is someone, even as these gatekeepers of this industry, ready, like who are they to say if it's good or bad? I understand if it's not suitable for this label or that, because they are looking for certain thing, but it doesn't make it wrong. Because you can't make, there's no right and wrong in art.

Brian Funk (32:49.605)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (32:52.45)

but we still fully believe that there is. We absolutely believe that there's a right or wrong, because every new Patreon that comes in always says, sorry, I did this task wrong, or I did this challenge wrong. I'm not like, no, you can't do it wrong. There's no wrong or right. And also it's like, hope you like it. Because I do monthly challenges and after each challenge, I do a feedback round. And I always ask, if you want feedback, you need to ask me.

Otherwise, I'm not going to give you feedback. And I always say, even when I give feedback to people, always say, but this is just my perspective. It doesn't make the right perspective. What you need to take is whatever you want out of it and make up your own mind, because only science is right and everything else is just opinions. Nobody can say that they're right. And what really gets me is teachers, educators.

mentors, YouTubers saying this is the right way to do that. Like who are you to say that's the right way to do that? That's a one way to do that. It's your way to do that. That's your view and your perspective. But it's art. it's the same as saying like Prush needs to be used only a certain way. No, Prush can be, you can scratch with the other end if you want. You can do whatever you want with Prush. So why would, you know, a synth be any other way?

And it really gets me this whole idea. And I feel like most of our fears in this industry is so rooted around this idea that you're going to fail, but you can't. It's not possible. And if anyone says anything different, like, there's only, only thing you can challenge is, or you can challenge is science. We have audio science, everything else is just opinions. So I'm not right.

You're not right. Nobody's right. We all just make art and then, yeah, sorry. This whole point just made. There's a long story short again, but this whole point was the fact that, you know, so in the Patreon, we do monthly challenges. And this was my original point. And I always say that make the track and then even if you don't like it, finish it. Finish every single track, even if you don't like it.

LNA (35:14.412)

and then afterwards decide what you want to do with it. But let it exist. Let it come through you. Let it exist because also who are you to say if it's good or bad? Because something that could be right now, something that you absolutely hate in 10 years, it can be absolutely amazing because we saw what happened in the 80s. Everybody hated mullets. No, mullets was cool. Then everybody hated mullets and now they're cool again.

Brian Funk (35:38.385)

Yeah, right.

LNA (35:43.572)

Art is subjective. Visuals and what we like and what we don't like, so many things affect it. So who are you to say if your art is good or bad? Just let it happen, let it exist and then decide if you don't need to release it. If it doesn't fit to whatever you're doing right now. But it's like if you start filtering yourself all the time that you're sitting by a computer or your synth, then you're never going to create anything. You're never going to finish anything.

So just like, don't judge yourself and your art, just let it happen. That was my point.

Brian Funk (36:18.609)

I like that a lot. Because I'm with you and like try to finish things, see the ideas through, follow through, even if it's bad because you're at least getting the practice, you're going through it. And like you said as well, you never know how you're going to feel about it. You might make good decisions that save it along the way. But I really like the thought that you said of

who are you to judge if your own art is good? Because I love this idea of almost like outsourcing the criticism and like it's not my job to decide and but to even put it that way a little more firm like how dare you judge your own art and filter it because it might be important and it might just be, it might not even but it doesn't.

LNA (36:46.178)

Mm.

LNA (36:53.516)

Yeah.

LNA (37:00.846)

Exactly!

Mm.

LNA (37:08.086)

It might be important. That's a good point. It might be important. So why are you stopping it? It's like, it's just let it happen. Let it exist. It's like you, I always think that it's almost like you birthed to something. It comes through you. You create it. It becomes part of you. But also it's only personal to you. So...

Brian Funk (37:16.624)

Yeah.

LNA (37:36.79)

your deepest thoughts and even if you feel insecure about it, it's only personal to you. But for somebody else, it could be something completely different. So even if you hate it and you don't like it, someone else, it might be life changing for somebody else. So who are we to prevent that?

Brian Funk (38:01.233)

That's a good point because a lot of times students of mine will, maybe years later I see them or they write or something, they say something was important to them that happened in the class or something. And very often it's the kind of thing where I'm like, I didn't think anything of that when I said that or it didn't seem like much when I said it, but for whatever reason it just hit and...

LNA (38:11.79)

Mm.

LNA (38:20.59)

you

LNA (38:24.27)

Mm.

Brian Funk (38:29.397)

It's the same thing in my life too. There's things that people have said to me that for whatever reason just rattle around in my brain. I just, I know they would have no idea they even said it. But for whatever reason, just could be timing, could be a billion things. But yeah, who are you to?

LNA (38:37.966)

Mm.

LNA (38:50.903)

It could be anything.

Who are you? And I like saying it like, who are you to say that? How dare you? But it's the same like when I got to that whole rampage about the idea of like, who are you to say if someone's art has value or not? It's the same kind of mentality I think, is like, because one sentence can destroy someone's confidence in a minute, in a second. And it takes years to.

Brian Funk (38:58.033)

You're kind of like, how dare you? Yeah.

Brian Funk (39:19.718)

Yeah.

LNA (39:23.064)

build back. Like for me, I did some tracks for a publishing company when I was like 23 or something. And they said a person who was just in a university in a very vulnerable position, listening to someone in a higher position in power. And they said to me, you're decent producer, but you can sing. And

As someone who grew up singing all my life, I completely, I never questioned it. I never even thought about my singing voice other than just that it was a tool for me to express myself and I was just singing. And suddenly they managed to silence me for so many years because I felt so anxious about this one sentence that I was said because I was someone in a vulnerable position and they were...

Brian Funk (40:09.969)

Mm.

LNA (40:20.684)

someone higher than me that I appreciate and I valued. And this is where teachers and mentors and all this is so we're in such a position of power. And if a mentor says like, my friend was just my friend who's just kind of like early years of music industry, she was mentored by a seasoned producer and said that

basically something like very judgy of like, I know what you're trying to do here, but it's really shit. a bit like for me, singing voice one. And if she would have not come to me and we would not have discussed this and it would have rattled in her brain and stayed there, that judgment could have literally stopped her doing what she's doing.

because it stopped me for singing for years because it took my effort and my me going to therapy and me keep on starting to sing again and starting to open my mouth and like just be brave and work through those that fear. It took so much courage to to be to be able to like sing again. And I just think I get so angry to think that people think that they

are in a position to say stuff like that to somebody. Because who the hell are they to say that to anyone? Who do they think that they are to? It's just their opinion, but also I know that people say, you need to have a tougher skin. No, I don't. I don't need to take shit. I don't need to. I don't need to do that. I can call out the people who say stuff that it's none of their business to stuff, especially abuse.

power.

LNA (42:16.918)

If you are in a position of power and you keep on saying to somebody that, you know, something that could like evaluating their art in a way of saying that it's it's wrong or it's bad. It's it's that can be life changing for somebody, but it's nothing for you. So it's I it really gets me because I think that's the kind of key message also in my book is.

that most people have that already from home, that somebody somewhere said that or they heard something like that to be said to another person. So then you take it onto yourself. Okay, I can never do that because mother once said this about that person. So you start carrying these insecurities and these fears in your head. If I do that, then I will embarrass myself or something. And I think we need to be very careful.

Brian Funk (43:00.913)

you

LNA (43:11.808)

of how we evaluate art and how we talk about it in front of other people. yeah, especially if we have power.

Because yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (43:21.969)

Yeah, what a thing to rob a person of too. Just the joy of singing, even if it is, you know, whatever you want to call it. I don't even want to say bad, you know, like, what is bad even? Some of my favorite singers are never going to win competitions and they manage to touch people and connect with people.

LNA (43:36.179)

Even that, yeah. What if I... Yeah, who are they to say it's bad?

Yeah?

LNA (43:47.692)

Yeah, and you know what? There's also like, if you think about like 100 years ago, everybody sang in a pub, everybody sang in a church all the time. And now because we have like these TV shows with singing, we assume that that's only way to sing. But there's million ways that you have, and you have Tom Waits. there's, So then who, that's just.

Brian Funk (43:54.918)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (44:03.779)

if you can do that.

Yeah, and he's Master of the instrument.

LNA (44:16.536)

perspective. It's just, and there's so many ways to give that kind of feedback. Like example, that person could have said to me, like your singing voice is not for us. Like, you know, the tone of your voice could be, you know, there's so many ways to form it. Even that is like, but I would say that like, there's ways to say that it's not for them.

because they are looking for this kind of, but your voice would be really good at this kind of stuff. So it's not wrong, your voice is nothing wrong, it's just that it's not K-poppy enough or whatever they wanted. So there's ways to be constructive and be saying what you want without crushing somebody.

Brian Funk (45:08.111)

Yeah. That's sad when you hear it. Those thoughts that have been kind of internalized come out of people.

LNA (45:16.718)

Mm.

Brian Funk (45:17.295)

where they say like, can't sing or I can't, I hear it at school a lot, I can't do math, I can't write, can't whatever. And like, but you're a baby. You're so young and you haven't even tried really yet. But like, who told that to you? Who's told you that? Yeah. Or like you write about, they might've heard someone else be told that. And I think we learn a lot by watching what happens to other people too.

LNA (45:27.915)

Yeah.

LNA (45:31.918)

Well, someone told them because nobody

LNA (45:41.698)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (45:46.293)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (45:47.051)

So the thing that is happening over here that they might not even be involved in really can still impact them.

LNA (45:52.63)

Yeah. 100%. And I think this is exactly what I feel like, you know, with the book and stuff, I feel like it's really hard for me to explain why I want producers to read this and musicians and artists to read this, because that kind of comes exactly to the point. Is that when you recognize those thought patterns, when you recognize, I'm questioning

Why am I saying I'm a bad singer? Why am I saying I can't? And you question that, you recognize that that's the thing that every time that you wanna create, that's the thought that comes to your mind. Why? And where did you hear it? And is it true? And then finding techniques, like I have there so many different techniques on how to train yourself out of that, how to, but you need to first recognize it.

And then after that, you need to use techniques to actually practice to get it out. Because as much as I feel like it's good to recognize something, but it does take effort and practice to fully put those thoughts into action. For me, for example, I feel like with my singing, I started really slowly singing on my YouTube channel in some clips or something.

And through that like encouragement that I got from my followers, I was like, okay, maybe I can do this more. And I started singing more and now I sing all my tracks and I feel like I found my voice again. And I'm now very aware of that nobody can take it away from me again, because I recognize and I feel like it would take more.

now for somebody to almost take any of those parts away from me because I've I've practiced this for so many years now to recognize when someone as I said like I don't I don't think thick thick skin is not needed. What's needed is awareness of what's happening here inside of your head. And then when you are aware you become you can practice to become so comfortable in yourself and self love.

LNA (48:19.116)

and appreciate your voice and who you are so well that nobody can harm you. So they can say whatever you can, because you recognize that that's of them just reflecting their own hurt on you, or they're just being clumsy with their wording or whatever it is that could hurt you.

Brian Funk (48:38.725)

Those are often thoughts that can pop in your head when you're creating that you almost don't even notice. They they slip in and then you just kind of go with it. And it's really important to.

LNA (48:45.742)

Mm.

Brian Funk (48:53.763)

I guess you said it like pay attention to what's going on because you don't have to identify with every thought you have. It'd be a disaster if we did and there's obviously ridiculous things that pop in our heads that we know we don't need to identify with. But when it's something a little more subtle and especially something around like vulnerabilities we already have, then it can be tough like just to get past it.

LNA (49:00.631)

No.

LNA (49:08.258)

Mm.

LNA (49:14.926)

Mm.

LNA (49:20.037)

It's, I guess it's like when it happens so often that you recognize, okay, this is happening to me. So it's like maybe those and it could be a lot more complex, but then you don't even need to go to your like, it's not like therapy that you need to go into your past and think about, okay, what are those exact reasons who said like what, but it's more just being like even with that feeling with yourself, okay, I feel uncomfortable.

well, can I do something about me not feeling uncomfortable anymore? So it was just feet like even recognizing that I'm not well right now, something is happening. Maybe I need to remove myself from this situation. Let's say that you get overwhelmed by new gear or something like that's a very common one that you just bought your rack and suddenly you feel super.

Brian Funk (50:09.555)

LNA (50:10.746)

insecure because it's not working the way that you thought. So you start questioning your skills and you start questioning maybe you shouldn't. Everybody else is so much better and they get it better and you get really anxious and you feel like you just want to throw the whole thing, but it's too expensive to throw it. So maybe in that moment, you don't need to be like, who's hurt me? And what did it happen? It's more like, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm recognizing that.

I'm going to go make myself a cup of tea. I'm going to because I'm in England. So that's what people do in here. I you know, I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to have a little moment and then I'm going to come back. I'm not going to give up. I'm not going to walk away from this. I'm going to still keep on creating. But I recognize that something made me feel uncomfortable, but let's make it more simple. Now I'm going to use only this module that I already know. I'm going to use this one that I already know.

and let's just work with the stuff that I know for now. And then we can learn the new ones later on. So it's almost that kind of thought process that if we recognize something is happening, we know what to do when that happens. And we know techniques to then overcome that and to continue working. So it doesn't stop us. doesn't, you know, stop the creativity to happen.

Brian Funk (51:34.543)

Hmm. Yeah, that might be the worst thing you can do, I guess, in those times is to shut down. To like, to feel almost like defeated by it. Like, I can't do it. I can't do that.

LNA (51:40.398)

Mm.

LNA (51:45.752)

but that's what happens.

Exactly. And that's exactly what happens. I think the most of the cases I feel like that's happened to me so many times Especially when you're starting up and all it's so frustrating, but I don't think it ever stops really but Now you have a book where you can go for For techniques to get over those moments or like get the guidance because like even you know now I managed to say that because

Brian Funk (52:08.959)

Hehehehe

LNA (52:17.614)

Okay, go for it, have a break and then focus just for a couple of minutes, like, limit the over wellness, you know? So that's one of those techniques. It sounds really simple, but at that moment, you might not think of that as a solution. You might... Yeah, exactly.

Brian Funk (52:32.901)

Yeah, because you're so overwhelmed with the problem.

Yeah, that's it's funny to me when I get in these moments when I get stuck or frustrated. I realize like I talk about this all the time. I intellectually understand it. But in the moment, it's a different story. In the moment, it's like, okay, let's you almost don't always have the presence of mind to step back a little bit and say what's what's happening, what's going on. And

LNA (52:47.054)

Mm.

LNA (53:00.257)

No.

Brian Funk (53:07.909)

But I do think, I wonder if this is what you're finding too. I do think it's something you can train a little bit where you start to get better at recognizing it.

LNA (53:14.104)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (53:17.568)

Yeah, because what you're describing there is called emotions and emotions are so hard to... we can't intellectualize emotions because they are bodily function that happens into our body. we can, we think often that they are like anxieties, sadness, you know, whatever emotion happiness.

Brian Funk (53:34.289)

Hmm.

LNA (53:44.664)

but they're a lot more complex than that and they happen in our body. Sorry.

Brian Funk (53:46.693)

Yeah, like there's seven. As if there's like only seven of them. And it's something I love about music is it sometimes sounds like emotions we don't have words for.

LNA (53:52.052)

Yeah, exactly.

LNA (54:00.02)

Yes, exactly. But that's what you kind of, feel like you were describing a little bit. don't know if I'm like right, but like what you said is like you sat there and you feel like you don't, you're not really present. But that's emotion. That's you feeling things, but that you can describe what's happening. And that's something that I've learned a lot through therapy for recent years.

is that we need to just accept it. We need to accept that something is happening. An only thing we can really do is recognize that something is happening that we can't explain. We can't rationalize it right now. At this moment, we can maybe find some reasons in that some point why certain feelings come or why we feel anxious or I don't know what that is. Anxiety is a good word for a lot of feelings.

because it's confusion, like what's happening type of thing.

Brian Funk (54:59.761)

Yeah.

It's a very generalized word, it's like a whole spectrum of color.

LNA (55:05.88)

Yes.

LNA (55:10.25)

Exactly. But I do think what you were saying about them learning. And yes, I do think you can learn and even without going into too much depth, because I know that like therapy is something that can be very uncomfortable thing for many people. But there is there is ways to just like, start to accept that we are humans, we feel things.

And that's kind of it. If you start learning that. So, for example, fear is something that can be like, there's been so many studies about like fear and how fear can be just, it's a, we can teach ourselves to, and our brain, we can teach it to stop being scared in a certain situation. So let's say that we have a nuisance that can create us actual fear fight or flight reaction.

So what happens is actually a physical reaction because our body is trying to protect ourselves. So fear comes from that. either we can, I think it's called High and Low Road. It's somewhere here. But it's basically the idea that...

Brian Funk (56:27.931)

Are you consulting your own book? I love it. That must mean it's good.

LNA (56:34.486)

I've been actually reading it the last couple of days again. I was like, did I write this? But I'm kind of going back into it being like, this actually makes a lot of sense. The thing is, my memory is horrible. So it's good to have bad memory because I feel like I'm reading my own book again. I can't find it. But basically the idea of high and low road, either you can escape and you can leave.

the fear situation, or you can accept that you're afraid, you can accept the feeling. And the more that you accept that feeling and you accept that it's happening, the more you can train your brain to trust that there's no fear. Like for me, example, when I was 19, I moved to France for a year and I remember being quite scared and like feeling anxious about it. But then

When I did it second time, I was 21 and I came to UK, I already went through that emotion and I already like, so that's kind of the same thing. You just, the more you do it, the more you are training your brain to that there's nothing to be afraid of, that it's normal that I'm having these feelings. It's okay that I still feel.

scared, it's okay still that I'm gonna feel homesick, it's okay still all the emotions that comes with it, but you're kind of like, I already know this process, I know that it's gonna happen.

Brian Funk (58:09.349)

I do a lot of that kind of talking to myself, like, all right, you've been here before. You've done this before. You figured it out. You survived. You're still here. That can be really helpful. No, I wouldn't dare. I don't want to learn your... No, maybe one day, who knows? But I'm afraid, for one, it'll probably bankrupt me.

LNA (58:14.52)

Mmm, that's good.

LNA (58:20.11)

Yeah, you're talking about learning Euro-rack, isn't it?

Brian Funk (58:38.353)

Because the thing with the Eurorack that you can always do, if you're feeling like you're not getting the sounds you want, you can just get a new module. And then maybe that will answer it. So I don't know.

LNA (58:45.72)

That's Mine is just staring at me there being like, how dare you speak bad at me? I'm, they are licking at me. A lot of cables.

Brian Funk (58:53.617)

those little lights are winking at you and taunting you. Yeah. Yeah, but it happens like just anytime I'm making anything, there's always that moment where that kind of critic and self doubt comes in. And when I'm mindful enough, I can say, it's this part of the process again.

the part where I doubt everything. the thing that I loved 30 seconds ago, I now think is the worst thing ever and embarrassing to just remind myself that like, we're at this stage of the game again. Here we are. And this is just part of the ride. We just got to get past it.

LNA (59:32.077)

Yeah.

LNA (59:38.218)

Exactly. And that's the kind of... the only thing that we can do is...

Again, well, that's exactly what you said, being aware of it and accepting that it does happen to everybody. But I guess when to really...

could be a good place to kind of look into a little bit more is when it blocks you fully to do whatever you want to do.

I understand that it's normal to have all these things all the time and it's normal to also have feelings that block you. But if you really wanna do something, example, I was explaining that I wanna do a podcast about these topics. And my whole idea with the podcast is that I'm not gonna edit it. It's just gonna be me just.

blabbering, talking authentically as I am. I'm, know, I'm English is not my first language. I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to, you know, maybe not always makes the most sense. But I've had this idea and I have wanted to do it for two years and I kept on pushing it, pushing it, pushing it. Unconsciously, I was like, I was never prioritizing it. And I realized that there was something in that that was blocking me.

LNA (01:00:58.498)

because I was so afraid. I was so afraid of my own idea that I really wanted to do. And I could have easily backed out, but I said, okay, why? Why am I pushing it? And I realized that there so many levels of insecurities that I have about that. And it was really tied to the book and it's really personal as well. There's a lot of personal stories in the book and it's just...

I feel like I was so afraid for so many things right now that I feel like I wasn't maybe ready for it. And now I've recorded about five episodes and I'm gonna start posting them in May, I think. And I feel like I'm still afraid. I'm still like so afraid to start it. But also knowing that nobody really gives a shit whether I do it or I don't do it.

So only person that I'm blocking and only person that I'm preventing to do what she wants to do is myself. Because nobody else gives a shit. So I'm kind of like, okay, I need to get over this fear, whatever it is, I need to understand it and I have needed to work on it. But I need to do this because what's the other opposite?

I'm never gonna do anything. I'm never gonna write a book. I'm never gonna do a podcast. I'm not gonna do things that I wanna do because, well, nobody gives a shit about that either. Only thing again, I'm just blocking myself. So might as well just do it.

Brian Funk (01:02:37.071)

Yeah. You know, I noticing a way of your thinking, I think that, because you said like, well, nobody gives a shit if I do it. And at the same time before it was also like, it might be important to people. So I think there's a clever, because I'm recognizing this in myself, that a lot of times the things I think, I'll think things because they'll serve the purpose.

LNA (01:02:52.269)

Hmm.

LNA (01:02:57.915)

really?

Brian Funk (01:03:05.849)

Right? Like in your case, like, no, nobody will give a shit. Be like, well, then I'll just do it. Like if that's going to serve you to go, then go. But there's also that could, if that was making you feel like, no one's going to give a shit. So what, why should I do it? That could be destructive, but in this case, it's helpful. So sometimes to adopt the mindset that will help you make the move.

LNA (01:03:10.638)

Yeah.

LNA (01:03:19.982)

Mm.

LNA (01:03:30.348)

Yeah, I think it's quite interesting because like for me, that's always been like how I guess it's how you see world if you're a little bit like, I feel like I'm always optimistic, I'm realistic. And I don't think those two even should be compared because they don't cancel each other out. But then I feel like there's pessimistic realistics as well. And I feel like I've always been one of those people who sees the world almost like

I think we're here only once. Life goes really fast. And I see it almost like a game board. So I want to go from one place to another. So I might as well try because what else am I going to do here? So it's like, I might as well throw the... What are those?

Brian Funk (01:04:25.659)

Dice. Yeah.

LNA (01:04:26.51)

dice, might throw the dice, see how many steps forward I can go and see how far I can get because again, I'm like, what else am I going to do here? I feel like it gives me purpose. It gives me a place to something to do while I'm here because what I feel like the other option for me would be not do anything and just, I guess.

hope that someone else comes and gives me opportunities or gives me a place, but the reality kind of is that nobody will come and pick you up and nobody will come and give you anything. The only thing that like, you're the one who's responsible of your life and your happiness and your success, whatever that means to you. might as well, well, I have a, when I was,

living in France, I got a tattoo that says, not? And I think that's the kind of like principle which I've lived by since I was very young of just, well, why not? Why not to do it? Because if there's no actual really good reason, then you should just do it because why not?

Brian Funk (01:05:42.8)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:05:46.897)

I think it's good advice because all of these things, I mean, from your work is...

It's all happened because you decided to do it and look at you're reaching people. You've got a community. You're YouTube. I see you're on the approach to a hundred thousand subscribers that that bar is going across, which is so cool. And I can remember when you were going for 50 and that would that had been a long time coming in to and.

LNA (01:06:08.376)

crazy.

LNA (01:06:15.114)

I know.

LNA (01:06:20.014)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:06:20.749)

All of these and getting the book deal didn't happen because somebody was just like, let's pick someone in the phone book and just landed on you. It's because of the work you were doing and every step you take brings you to all these new unexpected places. And it's important work that's reaching a lot of people. And it's only because you said, not? Like, let's just do this. Nobody.

LNA (01:06:43.502)

It's literally just because I said, not? like, nobody, I...

Brian Funk (01:06:47.471)

recruited you right like nobody said it's time for you to start your YouTube and time for you to produce some music and

LNA (01:06:54.422)

Honestly, the YouTube I started just because I don't even fully remember. worked for Gear for Music, Gear for Music customer service. I was there in the phones giving advice for people. And we watched a lot of tutorial videos in the job because of like, does this amplifier have a plug with it? Does it come in the box? So we watched a lot of unboxings and stuff. And I was thinking like...

I'm just graduated from my master's as a music producer. I could do that. And then I was like, well, why not? And then I gave myself the challenge of I'm going to post once a week for as long as I can. I posted for three and a half years once a week, every single Sunday. I didn't miss a Sunday. That was a bit crazy, I would say. That was like the perfectionist side of me being like, hey, I need to do. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:07:30.124)

Heh.

Brian Funk (01:07:46.033)

I kind of remember you talking about that too at the time. Yeah.

LNA (01:07:51.252)

And then I burned out and then I was like, that was not the best choice. But same time, my determination gave me my whole job and my whole career. But I guess, yeah, what I was gonna say. yeah, like I was kind of scared to start that whole thing as well, but I kept it secret quite long from everybody. And I just started recording videos and posting them. And then, so I didn't even need to like...

I was like, I tell people that I'm gonna start doing it, they're gonna put their fears on me.

And I can't have that right now. I can have people saying, that sounds scary. Because as soon as people say their fears, I couldn't do it, then you start doubting yourself. So it was one of those where I was like, I need to do it. I felt like I needed to. And the same way I feel now about that podcast, still now we're talking about it. get like fear about it. But you're doing podcasts. It looks fun. It should be fine.

Brian Funk (01:08:56.815)

Well, I had a similar feeling when I started this because I started it in my head years prior, you know, and just, I think I wanted to do so many different things and built it up in my head and became such an undertaking that I didn't know where to start. Right? Like where, I could do this, I could do that, I could do this. And then it became too much.

LNA (01:09:03.306)

Mmm, really?

LNA (01:09:11.854)

Mm.

LNA (01:09:19.608)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:09:23.097)

And then I was like, there was definitely fear in it too, because the thing that got me through it, I was just like, let me see if I can even talk on the microphone for an extended period of time. Let's just see. And that day, I think I recorded like two or three episodes. That became like the first couple episodes of the show. And it kind of showed me like, okay, you can do this. But I didn't even have guests at first.

LNA (01:09:39.704)

Wow.

LNA (01:09:48.622)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:09:48.945)

And then I didn't even have music. It was really kind of funny because it got so big that I just decided to tear it down to its most basic, some microphone, and then go. And doing that, though, got the first step and then the second step. And then now you're walking. So it's like a little bit easier to keep moving and just add things little by little and.

LNA (01:10:10.542)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:10:14.705)

You don't know where it's going to lead. I really had no idea how much I would get out of it, personally, just talking to people like you. Like these conversations are really stimulating and make me think and question things that I think. it's been like the best education I've ever had, just talking to interesting people, thoughtful people. So.

LNA (01:10:21.848)

Mm.

LNA (01:10:30.702)

Hmm.

LNA (01:10:39.246)

Based on that, that also like, are you thankful for that person who started it? Do you know me? Like that version of you.

Brian Funk (01:10:47.697)

Oh yeah, like that guy that one Saturday, I was like, all right, let's just see if we can do this. It was such a whim. It wasn't like this big part of me either. It was just like, all right, you know what? Let's just see if we can do one.

LNA (01:10:52.718)

Yeah.

LNA (01:10:56.77)

Yeah.

LNA (01:11:01.358)

But do you know like that's like what we were talking about earlier, like creativity is just coming through you and you're not blocking it. You're just like, okay. Okay, let's say, why not?

Brian Funk (01:11:10.895)

Yeah. And that part of you only has to show up for a couple seconds sometimes. Like, all let's just push this rock down hill and see what happens.

LNA (01:11:18.39)

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and if you really want to do it, you should just do it because it's like, I understand if you get an idea that you're like not vibing, that's fine. don't need to do everything. But it's like if you if it actually feels good, then 100 percent just because you just don't know. But I guess that's kind of like if you go into it thinking you're going to be the biggest podcaster ever or you're going to be the big YouTuber ever, then that's

that can be slightly dangerous because it's again, that whole thing is like, I'm gonna be a superstar where maybe I read it from somewhere and then someone said that becoming comfortable in your mediocrity. And this is again, not in a bad, it's not like a negative thing at all. It's actually meant in the most positive way ever that you are your own. Like we're coming back to that.

where we say like, you are your main character, but you don't need to, to be amazing and to be successful doesn't mean that you need to be better than others. You don't need to be more special than others. Being, be comfortable in your mediocrity can be actually extremely liberating.

because you just live, you show up, you live, you do whatever you wanna do and you do it for yourself and you do it for whatever reason you're doing it, for other people to find enjoyment, whatever it is. But the idea that you always need to be best of better, it's consuming and it's also limiting more than it's...

LNA (01:13:17.454)

beneficiary. So the idea that, you know, as a musician, I'm unemployed, but I don't need to be a superstar. I don't need to be in massive festivals. I'm 100 % happier actually just having my group of people who like what I do, because with that, there's no extra pressure. There's nothing that I need to, I don't have label deals or I don't have managers because as soon as you build a company,

You build a brand, you're responsible for other people, you're responsible for their as well. There's so much that layers in that you didn't sign up in the beginning. And so me feeling like I can be in the music industry as the person who plays at 1 p.m. because I hate staying up anyway. So I'm so happy with that. I can do the sunsets, sets, know, do my melodic house.

and then I'll have a cocktail and I go to sleep. That's where I want to be. So it's almost like defining what success means to you and where you're actually realistic for it. The idea of be comfortable your mediocrity is it's been almost changing for me, like really game changer.

Brian Funk (01:14:38.001)

I like that because the pressure to always be better, always grow, keep increasing, increasing is exhausting. I'd like a more...

LNA (01:14:48.224)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:14:51.983)

Just be consistent. Just keep putting something in. It doesn't have to always be more than yesterday, but it just has to be something. Just something. And some days I'll have big days, and some days I'll just show up for a few minutes even. But consistency, yeah, like I might roll a one, but next time I might get a four, next time I might get a six. And I might get lot of ones in a row, but.

LNA (01:14:59.724)

Yeah. Yeah.

LNA (01:15:09.184)

is the game board.

LNA (01:15:16.916)

Exactly. But you show up every day. Yeah, you roll, you see where it's going to take you and it's curiosity. I think curiosity is more important than anything else because that keeps you that makes life interesting. I think for me, at least that makes it fulfilling to be like, let's see what could happen today. You know, we all have limited time here anyway, so it's like, let's

Brian Funk (01:15:21.019)

but your role, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:15:37.691)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:15:41.617)

And

LNA (01:15:47.01)

figure this out. Let's see what we can do this year, tomorrow. It could be something fun.

Brian Funk (01:15:53.349)

Yeah. Right. Doesn't have to be a ton either, but it does add up. I had like an epiphany, like I played baseball as a kid and I never wanted to do anything more in my life than hit a home run. You know, like so that was the big goal for a long time. But one day it just occurred to me like, wow, you know, if

LNA (01:16:03.308)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:16:18.363)

If every player just got to first base, you'd win every game. Like if everybody just made it one more space forward, but instead we're trying to like hit the ball as hard as we can and we miss it. Just, yeah just a little. And that of single, it's like mediocre outcome of hitting the ball I suppose. Successfully anyway.

LNA (01:16:23.114)

Yes!

LNA (01:16:28.696)

Fizz.

LNA (01:16:32.268)

This. This exactly. And also, yeah.

LNA (01:16:43.086)

But it's not mediocre because you showed up and you were part of something. And I think again, it comes down to the feeling that it can be fulfilling and it is fulfilling not to be special. To accept that we all are special. And it sounds really cheesy in a sense, but like I think about my patrons and I think the amount of like

hobbyist there is or some professional musicians and they all are so good in their own way, in their own thing. And I look at them and I'm like, these people don't have following or shitload of streams of views, but they are amazing. And once we started looking at other people as that they are special, they are so good and not just think that we didn't.

then I feel like we start to also accept the fact that I'm special in my own way and they are special in their own way and we don't need to just be like hierarchy that someone is above everybody. like if I would be that person, it doesn't make me more valuable or more happy or more content than everybody else. It's actually me being again comfortable in my media inquiry or in my own specialty or who am I? I'm among

see of other amazing people and we're all just doing our own thing and that's all kind of cool. That's kind of just the great thing is that you show up to baseball and everybody else is probably equally as cool and awesome, but it's just being there, joining in and making that it brings you something then that's worth that was worth for the role.

Brian Funk (01:18:19.035)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (01:18:40.642)

that was worth of one step ahead and a game board because like it brought you something because I don't know, are we just too greedy sometimes that we think that every single day is supposed to bring something magical, something but then we don't then see the normal things are magical, the normal things, everyday stuff is like awesome.

LNA (01:19:08.686)

because we think that we need to have a home run every single day.

Brian Funk (01:19:08.997)

Yeah, like.

Brian Funk (01:19:13.135)

No, there really are no ordinary moments. It's all kind of special. Yeah.

LNA (01:19:17.228)

Yeah, I love this became very, I feel like sometimes this becomes very like live, laugh.

Brian Funk (01:19:25.817)

Yeah, well, it does, I guess. But a little bit of that's not so bad. I didn't get much of that today so far, so... Yeah, right. No, it's good because sometimes, I mean today for me, coming out of the classroom wasn't...

LNA (01:19:27.847)

you

Well, nothing wrong with that either.

LNA (01:19:37.224)

Exactly. Well, here's some of that for you.

Brian Funk (01:19:49.263)

It wasn't one of those days where I felt like I made a big difference and the world is better for it. You know? Nothing bad. Nothing... No major catastrophes or anything like that, but just kind of like... Alright, here we go. Another day.

LNA (01:20:03.564)

You just don't know how you again affect other people though. You don't know like you showed up, you did something that was important to other people and they showed up to be there because you were there. So that has meaning. No, but they don't kind of they could just there's a lot of as a lecture like you see the people some of them just don't show up or they they don't want to be there. But in a way, like I felt like that

Brian Funk (01:20:06.671)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:20:16.037)

Well, they have to be there, but...

Brian Funk (01:20:26.81)

Yeah.

LNA (01:20:31.598)

What ages is that you teach?

Brian Funk (01:20:34.225)

It's like teenagers, 14, 15. Now I understand what you're saying though. And that's always the hope. Like even when it feels like it's not hitting, it's not making a difference, no one wants to be there, they'd all rather be on their phones or whatever it is. You still have to hope that. Or you have to at least play like something is gonna happen because like you said, you don't know.

LNA (01:20:36.211)

yeah. Yeah.

Mm.

LNA (01:20:54.094)

Mm.

LNA (01:21:01.378)

You don't know, because also that age they take... No, and also that age, they are the most vulnerable. They think they don't need anything. They don't think they need anyone. They think they're invincible. But at the same time, they are the age where they need the most love, the most care, the most support. And they need adults who show up for them because they take it, love for granted. They take it for granted that people will show up for them.

Brian Funk (01:21:01.869)

So you can't get careless with that because it's...

LNA (01:21:31.276)

Well, not for everybody, obviously. think it's a... Some people then have the opposite, that they feel like nobody will ever show up for them. So why to care? But that's even more important than to show up, to show that someone does care. And then even though they don't want to show it on their face. So it's, I think that kind of... It does...

Brian Funk (01:21:48.027)

Yeah.

LNA (01:21:53.696)

matter, even though it seems again mediocre. It again seems like it's just been a basic day, but sometimes that's again enough.

Brian Funk (01:22:04.827)

Hmm. Yeah, it's true. You can't assume that it's for nothing, because then it's going to have a negative impact. Yeah.

LNA (01:22:14.188)

Yeah, and you don't know. So why to assume the negative thing when you just don't know, you don't know what the answer is. So then you can assume. Who am I? Who are you? Who are you to assume that you don't have an impact on other people? How dare you?

Brian Funk (01:22:21.105)

Who am I? Who am I to make that decision? It's true, it circles back to so many things.

LNA (01:22:34.734)

Yeah, absolutely. I like this. I feel like I'm just telling you off. How dare you? To assume. Good.

Brian Funk (01:22:36.613)

Hmm. Yeah.

So... I don't mind. It's nice to hear sometimes.

So I know I'm keeping you up late, because we have a six hour or five hour difference. Yeah, I know. It's starting to approach mine. we should tell people where they can get the book. I know it's almost everywhere, I think. But any place you prefer to.

LNA (01:22:52.408)

This is so past my bedtime.

LNA (01:22:59.95)

You

LNA (01:23:06.738)

It's everywhere. So Amazon, Routledge, Wilder Stones, any kind of online bookshop. I think it was even on eBay. And yeah, it's...

Brian Funk (01:23:42.437)

Mm-hmm.

LNA (01:24:05.474)

Get it wherever you feel most comfortable getting it from. And please leave a review, that would be extremely much appreciated.

Brian Funk (01:24:12.113)

Hmm.

Yes, very good. And of course we got your YouTube channel, LNA does audio stuff, which is quickly approaching 100k if you're not subscribed. Get on it.

LNA (01:24:16.279)

I

LNA (01:24:21.655)

Yes.

LNA (01:24:25.71)

Yes, people need to go. I think I got like over 100,000 views every month, but no people don't subscribe. It's like when it's a tutorial channel, a lot of people watch, but they don't subscribe. subscribe. Because there's, well, I'm actually doing a series soon where people can.

Brian Funk (01:24:44.517)

Right.

LNA (01:24:52.366)

let me know their creative plucks and then I will do tutorials on Ableton Live and like very practical production way of a bit like what we talked it's like what can you actually do in the moment when creative plucks happen what can you do and I'm going through like series of stuff around like the book topics so subscribe so you will see when that happens and I can I can help you with the

Brian Funk (01:25:08.923)

like that.

LNA (01:25:20.622)

With a creative flux. Anyone who's listening.

Brian Funk (01:25:24.497)

Yeah, that sounds fun. Yeah, and it kind of seems like you've been doing a little more where you're creating music with people, know, live streams, but also just kind of, I'm going to make this. I think you had one in like two hours. I made two songs or something like that. I like that direction is cool.

LNA (01:25:33.934)

Mmm.

LNA (01:25:43.63)

Yeah, so it's. Yeah, I'm doing a lot more challenges around it because I feel like my channel is more going to the direction of me sharing what I do as an artist, and then I love talking about this stuff. So I guess I'm kind of moving from like direct able to live tutorials more into the sharing my artistry. I just finished a interactive sound design project where I coded like Arduino like a club thing.

and I did like interactive sound dance floor for dancers with disabilities. And I haven't actually documented, I've documented video, but I'm gonna do share a video of that as well. So I feel like my channel is having like a new era coming up, which is a lot more related to all that kind of stuff. Like creative confidence, interactive sound design, me as an artist just literally doing audio stuff.

Just everything me as an artist doing, whatever I do in my project.

Brian Funk (01:26:44.699)

Well, I like that because that's more personal and that's something only you can do, right? Like we could have lots of people teach us how to use the new updated auto filter, for instance. And I'm sure everyone brings their own personality to it, right? But I like that you're leaning on that. That's cool because I think you got a lot of good stuff to offer.

LNA (01:26:58.926)

yes.

Mm.

LNA (01:27:10.354)

thank you. And I feel like for me, I need it. I need, I've realized that I've helped, like, I've been teaching so much with others and I feel like I haven't given myself the time, like, to practice what I preach. And I feel like now is the time for me to do that for myself. And I'm happy to share my knowledge and share what I've learned, but I need to...

I need to invest time to myself. And example, especially as a woman in a music production, I noticed that I talked about women in music so much. And I know then I realized that actually the most powerful thing I can do in this industry is to invest that time into myself and my dreams and do the things and like do more than talk because...

the more that we see women up there doing stuff and showing up and, you know, doing cool audio stuff, whatever it is, that's already having more powerful message and more visibility than anything else. So I've kind of realized that it's for myself, but also just me existing in this industry and doing what I do, it's already impacting in other ways as well.

Brian Funk (01:28:37.755)

be the example.

LNA (01:28:39.31)

Yeah, I didn't have anyone else to look up to as a like women really so Now there's a lot more definitely happening and a lot more peers who are women as well but I feel like it's it's nice feeling to be able to Be that for somebody

Brian Funk (01:29:00.561)

Like you said, you never know who it's gonna reach. I love it. Well thanks, this has been a lot of fun catching up and I love what you're doing as always and it's taking on this new direction which is really exciting. So, best of luck with all that.

LNA (01:29:01.974)

Yeah, you never know. You never know.

LNA (01:29:12.054)

Yeah, same. Well, same back at you.

LNA (01:29:18.936)

Well, thank you very much. And thank you for starting a podcast. I'm glad that you had your idea and glad that you're here doing this. And thanks for having me.

Brian Funk (01:29:23.697)

Okay. Thanks.

great to have you and thank you everyone for listening. Go check out LNA does audio stuff, LNAmusic.com, get the book, Creative Confidence and Music Production, Overcome Your Insecurities.

Brian Funk
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