Consistency and Authenticity with Mikas of We Make Dance Music - Music Production Podcast #369

Mikas is the creator of We Make Dance Music, a site of music resources for producers. On his podcast, Live Electronic Music Tutorials with Mikas, he creates tracks in real-time, sharing tips and techniques along the way. The result of each episode becomes a template viewers can purchase on WeMakeDanceMusic.com. 

This is the second time Mikas and I spoke on the Music Production Podcast. Immediately I was reminded of his passion and impressive work ethic. As a new father, Mikas discussed the importance of staying consistent and scheduling time to work on his music career. He spoke about how we can take small actions regularly to complete major goals. Mikas also had some powerful thoughts on authenticity and honesty in art and how that can lead to deeper connections with your audience.

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Takeaways:

  • Consistency and dedication are key in pursuing creative endeavors.

  • Limited time can increase productivity and focus.

  • Focusing on strengths while working on weaknesses can lead to better results.

  • Learning and growing as an artist is important, regardless of experience.

  • Daily practice and challenges like Jamuary can lead to significant progress.

  • Platforms like We Make Dance Music provide opportunities for musicians to make a living.

  • Community and collaboration are important in the music industry. Success is the result of intentional action and consistent effort.

  • Putting in the work and showing up consistently is more important than waiting for inspiration or relying on luck.

  • Building relationships and connections requires effort and vulnerability, but it can lead to meaningful experiences and personal growth.

  • Real, tangible experiences are important in a world dominated by technology.

  • Taking breaks and engaging in physical activities can help maintain focus and perspective.

  • Honesty, authenticity, and providing value to others are key in building meaningful relationships.

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:01.294)

Mikas, it’s great to have you here. Welcome back to the show.

Mikas (00:05.038)

Hey man, thanks for having me again. It's been six years since we talked last time. It's been a while. How you been?

Brian Funk (00:11.375)

Yeah, I've been great. I'm kind of doing a lot of the same stuff, but keep working, developing. And I know you've had some additions to your life. You've said you've become a father of two now. So congratulations. I know that's changed the work life a bit as it tends to do.

Mikas (00:24.109)

Thank you!

Mikas (00:30.028)

I think a lot of us that listen that had children can relate to, you know, you have to make the best of the time with the two kids to take care of, you know, 18 months and six and a half years old. They take a lot of energy, you know, so when I have a chance to be in the studio, do something or to do a call with you, something like that, it's nice, you know, it's nice to have a little bit of time, you know, do things that you love. So, yeah, two boys.

Brian Funk (00:52.238)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (00:57.743)

That's great. Yeah. I relate to what you're saying. I don't have kids, but when I teach, I teach high school English, as you know, and it's a summer vacation comes around and I feel like I have all this time and I'm going to do so much, but I wind up wasting so much of it because there's so much to waste. But when I'm working, sometimes I feel like I'm more productive because those few hours I have in a day to do stuff are precious and you got to really capitalize on them. And you were saying kind of the same thing.

that having children does for you.

Mikas (01:30.381)

Absolutely. When I sit here and I get to record an episode of my podcast, like I have to introduce my podcast, I do live electronic music. So that means I just start recording, make a track in real time and shoot the past five and something years. I mean, it turned out 45 episodes. And at first I was okay, you know, and with time I get better, you know, because of consistency and work.

And you know, I dedicate this amount of time. This is what I have to put in, but at least I get to practice. I get to make a product for our site, We Make Dance Music. I get to do my craft, right? They're like pretty much the same as you. And as I was telling you a couple of minutes ago, because we did this call six years ago, I started doing my kind of version of not what you do, but of what I do, you know? So it really inspired me to get started and to be consistent, you know, which is the key, you know, as we both know for any artistic endeavor.

Brian Funk (02:06.734)

Hmm.

Mikas (02:26.655)

not only music production, you know, you can be a painter, you can be anything. If you consistently apply yourself to it, you put some time in it, you will become, you know, you can say great or you can say better, you know, a little bit every day. So...

Brian Funk (02:30.862)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (02:43.695)

It's so true. And I think sometimes we believe we need all of this time. We need all of this open space in our calendars to get stuff done. But sometimes it's almost the opposite when you are a little pressured and you know, you've got to be productive in a small amount of time. Something like what you're doing with this is like the how to make, and then it's some kind of genre of music or in the style of an artist, maybe. You know, you have to focus. You don't have that time to kill. So.

You're getting right to work and I think you nailed it. Like the consistency thing is the most important part, even if it's a small amount of time. If that stuff really adds up as you keep going throughout the long game, instead of worrying about like a short sprint of or marathon really, it's more about these little sprints.

Mikas (03:32.494)

So basically for me, I developed a ritual around recording sessions, you know, that when I applied this ritual, I get into a flow and I preconceived like the idea of what I want to do in my mind. You know, when I want to do trip -up, I really focus into the jar and I listen to music a little bit. I'm like, okay, there is those type of instrumentation. There's some chords in there. And then...

As I was telling you, I kind of dive into a mode of subconscious. It's not literally conscious what I make, it just flows so well, but it took many, many hundreds of episodes before I'm able to get there. And because of the ritual and the focus I get there, I'm like, okay, I'm going to compose a trance track. And it just comes out so naturally. Why? Because of consistency in practice. It's not any miracle. You cannot start...

Let's say hitting home run every time if you play baseball, if you don't practice like to hit the ball a thousand times a day, you will definitely hit a lot of home run, right? It's the same for us. The more you do, the more you're going to hit some home runs. That is to be able to have a creative idea within 30 minutes, which is, I think it's a feat. There is over the 345 episodes I released, I think five or seven, I technical problem were deleted right off because, you know, it was really not good at all. I mean, seven out of this.

I think it's pretty good because of the process, creating that bit and really sticking to it.

Brian Funk (05:06.127)

Hmm. That baseball analogy rings with me a bit because when I was a kid playing baseball, I loved it. And that was the first thing I ever wanted to be was a professional baseball player and wanted to be a New York Met. And I got to the age where I was getting big enough to hit a home run on the field we played on. And even like some of the other kids were starting to do it. So I was just so determined. I was trying to hit that ball so hard every time they hit the home run.

Mikas (05:18.734)

Nice.

Mikas (05:26.541)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (05:35.695)

But it finally came when I stopped trying to do that and I just wanted to hit the ball, just hit the ball and hit it clean, hit it well. And then sometimes you just connect and it's like, you don't even feel the bat hit the ball. It just, the energy is transferred perfectly and it just goes. And it's so much like making music in a lot of ways where if you're trying, I've got to make something great, I got to make something great. You stress yourself out.

Mikas (05:40.686)

That's it.

Mikas (05:52.077)

Mm -hmm.

Brian Funk (06:05.007)

You miss the ball, you swing too hard. And when you just say, I'm just going to make something, I'm just going to finish this follow through. And that's when the good stuff tends to come out of that once in a while.

Mikas (06:16.877)

Exactly, I would say maybe 7 out of 10 average, 2 great and 1 very good, exceptional let's say. Because you cannot always hit the home run, but if you have in music, if you use your own skills and build a set of skills that are composition, sound design,

mixing and engineering, you know, and then arrangement, you know, like very important. So if you put all of those and you slowly improve into each of these, if you're lacking A, you can play with B, C and D to really always deliver something, right? So it's not literally one. Of course, if you're an excellent composer, it's great, you know, however, probably mixing is not your thing. Sound design is not your thing. So there's always little tricks. So for me, sound design and mixing,

best strength, you know, this is what I can do very well. Composition, not so good. I got better, you know, practicing a lot. But what I've done is I took this composition, it's like, okay, I'm going to optimize on what I can do. Then I will take the other step. I can do arrangement quite well. I can do sound design quite well. I mix, I believe, really decently. So with those together, I'm able to create a good track every time, you know, playing with like the different parts that I have. So I think that counts. So if for the people out there,

If they're not so great at mixing or something, well then they can compose better and maybe get some help with mixing or maybe just work a little bit more on this every time to try to progress or at least have as a studio geek, have a decent setup with proper acoustic, would be the bass for somebody who's a geek like me. So they translate well or using some kind of decent equipment to be able to reference here yourself, so what you do.

So there's a lot at play when you make music with computers. Some people think it's just going there, some magic happens, the track come out and it's amazing. I mean, we both know and the people out there know that it's just not what's happening.

Brian Funk (08:24.175)

Right. Let me pause for a second. I'm hearing, it's almost like some kind of like rattling noise. Is there maybe something shaking on the desk or?

Mikas (08:32.204)

Okay, yep, yep.

Mikas (08:37.805)

Yeah, that's good. That's probably me.

That's fine. Yeah. It's because my mic is here and it's on the desk and it was probably shaking a little bit, so.

Brian Funk (08:42.319)

Yeah, it almost sounds as if like the microphone is...

Brian Funk (08:50.606)

Okay.

All right. I don't think I hear it anymore. Cool. Yeah. I just wanted to address that before, you know, things get too crazy. I think this is a really smart thing you're saying though, like focus on your strengths, build up your weaknesses. like you've seen you're taking some composition classes, right? You're taking some lessons and learning about some theory stuff over the last few years.

Mikas (09:13.231)

Yep. I tell you an interesting story. I bought a piano for my son when he was five. I bought him a keyboard, electric piano. And it took quite some time before we got a good teacher and we traveled and we got back from a pretty long trip this winter.

And then we look for a teacher and we finally found somebody great, you know, and I took my time to see if I like the guy enough, but then he get to teach him piano to my son, my six, six and a half years old now. And then my wife also take piano lesson. And then I'm like, okay, I like the guy. So I like the guy. So I started doing music theory with him, like literally more advanced chord progression. What are the keys? What could play in what keys, you know, like the minor suspended.

the root keys, how music is composed, what can you do with it to create more emotion into it. It's easy to play keys and to make something decent sounding and to create a melody and stuff. But I think the essence of very good music is a little bit more complex than that. So I wanted to explore this. After 24 years doing music, I started doing music theory lessons. It's a bit strange for me.

Brian Funk (10:25.998)

Right.

Mikas (10:28.303)

But there's something, you know, there's something that I'm learning. The only problem I already have is when I go back to creating music, have like a complication level in my mind of creating music. While I didn't have that before now, I have this complex layer of kind of correctness, you know, and I knew this will happen, but I went into it like, okay, I will get to it. I'll have to practice, I will have to learn more, but I will get there, you know.

Brian Funk (10:57.711)

Yeah. Well, that's admirable that you're learning still. I'm like a lot of people might think 24 years and you know, you can kind of just start making it, but it seems like, so many of the people that really advance really keep growing and don't plateau are doing that's important. Learning new things. It just, adds to your style. Sometimes people are a little afraid it might affect their style, which sounds a little bit like what you're talking about, but I'm sure it only just.

makes it more interesting, gives you more colors to paint with, really.

Mikas (11:30.928)

Exactly, so colors is a very good example. So when you do an E minor and you know that you can add those extra layers...

in those chords and really augmented and really make it the moment in the track just with keys without having to put up big arrangement like I was talking about a couple of minutes ago. You can make it but just strictly with the music. An orchestra does this very well. They play the music. There's no special effect. They just do it through instrumentation. So I think it's definitely valid. It's a valid route to progress further. I made a lot of music.

I've released six albums so far and I listen back I'm like wow what I've done for the time was absolutely my best but I don't know I will come up next because of this this layer now that I will have in my hands it's very very interesting and I'm 48 so learning at 48 is also interesting

Brian Funk (12:36.014)

Yeah, yeah. I think it's great. You can always learn. Some of the more interesting people I get to work with are the students I have in my Berklee classes. Some of them are young, some of them straight out of college. I've even had a few high school students taking the class, but some of them have been doing music all their lives. Some of them are playing big stages. Some of them are successful in this area and they just want to learn this other part of production. And...

Mikas (13:03.407)

Mm -hmm.

Brian Funk (13:05.999)

You get to really see why they've had success when they're in the class and the way they decide to learn and they're not afraid to be a beginner again. They're not afraid to start at a stage one when sometimes after you put in all this time, you feel like, I don't know if I could go back to the beginning. But it seems that it elevates everything else about what you do.

Mikas (13:27.919)

This is a very important part of being creative is really going out. If you do...

There's a lot of people that do not like, let's say, my style of music because I'm really going in different avenues, right? I'm not stable saying I'm making, I made a lot of progressive trance, you know, it's one of the things that I've known for, signed some record deals. I went quite far into it, DJ some sets, you know, for decent audiences, but I always go back to wanting to create something new, you know, go into some ambient, go into, I made a full ambient album out of the blue. Before that I was making prog trance.

was getting even more heavier trancey stuff and then my life changed a little bit and then I'm like I'm gonna try to do something like that I like this type of music I'm like okay I'm gonna get out bum a bit and you know it was one of my most successful release so far because I went completely outside of what I was doing before and I had to reinvent myself from...

you know, from, from trans complete ambient, you know, soundscape music. And I think everybody out there that want to make, let's say, deep house, you know, they should really go and make some two steps, some dubstep, some other genre, and then come back to their root and realize, man, I can't do so much more right now because of this.

Brian Funk (14:45.259)

Hmm. Yeah, I did a ambient EP a couple of years back and it wasn't intentional either. It was because I was doing Jamuary, which is make a track every single day. And somewhere about in the middle of the month, I just kind of felt like I want to try something different, a little bit weird for me. And started making ambient songs for a few days in a row. And it wouldn't have happened if I...

Mikas (14:56.943)

Nice.

Brian Funk (15:15.279)

was just kind of waiting for inspiration to strike. I don't think I would have ever said like, yeah, I'm really psyched to make a very soundscape ambient track. But in that particular day, cause I was making music every day, I was like, let's just try something a little different today. And when you're that consistent, you get to sort of have these like throwaway days where you can experiment and you don't have to worry if it's going to come out so good. You just see what happens. And sometimes cool things come from that.

Mikas (15:43.438)

So what is this? January? One track a day? Track? Tell me about this. I'm interested. January? Wait, I'm taking notes right here. Just wait a second.

Brian Funk (15:48.207)

Jamuary. Okay. Jam. Yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah. This is something that's kind of brewed on the internet. I first heard about it from Cuckoo, if you know Cuckoo, who's a YouTube personality, making all kinds of cool tutorials and music making product reviews and things like that. That's where I first heard from it anyway. It was where you just make some piece of music every day.

Mikas (15:55.054)

Yeah.

Mikas (16:18.095)

That's it. That's it.

Brian Funk (16:18.415)

Just something, doesn't matter. No, there's no quality limitation or requirement, just that you're showing up, you're producing something and you share it. And there's a community of people doing it and you can kind of find them and join and build up. And I've brought that into my community to do Jamuary. And it can be very stressful to make it every single day to find the time. But what you start to learn is that you can.

Mikas (16:45.774)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (16:46.159)

You know, if you really want to, you can, and even if you only have a half hour today, you could figure something out. It might just be, I might just strum my guitar and come up with some chords or something. and sometimes you have a little more time or the inspiration hits and you wind up with a full track. But it's this idea that like, you got to show up and that's how stuff happens. I've really moved away from any belief that inspiration strikes you that you're.

sitting there and you go, aha, you know, I have it. It's more like I have to start working and doing things. And as I start reacting to what happens and what I hear back, then I find the inspiration. Then I go, I like that. Let's, let's do something like that. Or it might be I'm listening to music and I'm thinking about how I want to make something in that genre or that just has a guitar sound like that or a beat like that. But it's all about it. And it proves it when you do the.

Mikas (17:16.878)

Hahaha

Brian Funk (17:46.255)

30 day exercise that you have to start. You have to get the ball rolling yourself. You can't wait for it to be pushed down the mountain. You have to start pushing it. So that...

Mikas (17:57.04)

100 % with you on that, like really, it's... That's it, every day. This is the first time I heard this idea. I've done it because, you know, we're on YouTube, you know, Cassé Neistat, you know, that I've done, I think he's done a year and a half of daily vlog, you know, when he really started and I was like, I'm gonna give it a try, okay? So I'm not sure of the exact number, I think I've done 70 days in a row, I've done a template, a video.

Brian Funk (18:14.67)

Wow.

Mikas (18:23.024)

70 days in a row and then I lost the flow a little bit but those are episodes of the podcast that are really in a row, in a row, in a row, went into some variations using the same chords, making different piece of music or doing a week of techno, doing a week of things and I made immense progress musically you know because I was just at it and I have to go at it and well there was an underlying of this is I was building a house which I'm sitting in right now so thank you guys and I had like

Brian Funk (18:27.342)

That's amazing.

Mikas (18:52.93)

really I had pressure like really heavy pressure to do something to perform to get traction and to do things because you know well you know like anybody I needed I needed finances I need money to do it and I just work as much as I could.

Brian Funk (18:57.294)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (19:08.016)

for quite a long time and it worked out. Some of the video have very little view, but this was not my point. My point was just to every day do a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better. And that's it. Later on, I think about it now, I look back and I'm like, wow, that was amazing. I really wish I could do it now. This is very valuable work and putting the work in every single day. If you have to, you can wake up at six, do a half an hour,

I wake up at five because my two kids wake up a bit later and I put in some work in the morning and I'm lucky enough to be able to make music here like any time of the day and night without anybody hearing so blessing to this you know and yeah if I can put in half an hour on a mix or have an episode to finish or something I just do it while I can it's very important.

Brian Funk (20:03.663)

Yeah, those small chunks of time add up too. You know, even a couple minutes. You know, that's a couple minutes towards the goal, towards the mission. And there's days in January where I've got like 20 minutes. I've either procrastinated it too long or I just had a busy day and you say, okay, 20 minutes. I don't have time to worry about if this is good, if I like it, if these chords are cool, if this beat is proper. I'm just going to make, make, make and see what happens. And...

Mikas (20:05.328)

Yep.

So.

sometime it is.

Brian Funk (20:32.879)

Sometimes you just, your instincts kick in and you learn to trust yourself too and just, you know, my taste will come through somewhere along the way and make this nice.

Mikas (20:44.24)

I think we all, I mean, it's proven, you know, I like to know about the mind and it's proven that we have a lazy brain. So the first default is not, I don't want to do it, you know, because of ABC, some fear and stuff. And yeah, you have to go beyond that, but really the default is like, no, I have to do ABC and then you will put your attention somewhere else. And, you know, kind of.

you know, go away from it and you know, really deep inside, this is really what you want to do. But the focus is so hard to keep to really get in there and create, you know, which is what we do, right? We create, you create packs, you know, I create templates. It's basically what we do. So there's no...

They shouldn't be anything. They should be like number one priority at the front of your head. That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. But it's hard to keep it there.

Brian Funk (21:37.743)

Sure. But you're right. I think our brain wants to conserve energy. So it's being creative does take some mental energy and you got to get over fear, self doubt. You've got to think you got to, you're building something out of nothing. So something that didn't exist before. And that's a lot. And I think thinking about it is a lot like, okay, today I need to make some, boy. Like he's.

Mikas (21:40.944)

that's it. That's it.

Mikas (21:46.831)

Yep.

Mikas (22:02.99)

Exactly.

Brian Funk (22:06.191)

You build it up in your head. The daily practice is a great way to get around that because there's just no time for that stuff. There's just no time.

Mikas (22:14.031)

So imagine it's your job, you know? So this is my job, you know, I have to create and, you know.

It's a good, good segue to talk about what we do at We Make Dance Music. I work with a lot of people who really make music and I have a good dozen, you know, of people that really make this for a living, right? So every day they have to create, they have to do things and very little have consistency, you know, and you have to get started and create one outlet. You focus on that outlet, you do something and you start getting some money from your music and then you move on to maybe another one or you license the music or you people start contacting.

you because they listen to your material like wow this guy is amazing and then you chase opportunity and with time you know you can make a living it's it's I think it's it's it's really a blessing right now for me to be able to make a living and provide the opportunity to others true I'm gonna have to plug it to our site wemakedancemusic .com I think it's it's a

It's just, it's very rewarding for me. I think the most rewarding moment is when I get to pay people, you know, so people, they find that a bit strange, but like, I get really good satisfaction, you know, to get paid because when I get paid, I send record deals with label. And when I get the, you know, the, the, the little bit of money that is in there for me, I'm like, this is okay. But when I pay the people that I work with, like every month and, you know, I give them a substantial amount. So I'm like, okay, well, if, if you do this, plus if you order things, you can.

you can make end meets or maybe you work a little but you focus on music and eventually you get to do only this and I really applying everything we talked about and doing this consistently I think there is more opportunity now than ever on the internet to make a living you know it's really is it's the era of yes there's people at the top

Mikas (24:04.941)

You know artists that are very influential that are making some money off YouTube and royalties and stuff. But they also hundreds of thousands of creators who make stock music, make templates, who sell packs that are making a living off what they do, you know. And this is growing, you know, because the people on the other end that are looking for those pieces of music is growing. The market in every country, people looking for licenses, there's people looking to learn, there's people. It's really a growing market. And I think a lot of creators,

shouldn't be discouraged and they should go in and try to make a living. I think this is very, very rewarding for anybody.

Brian Funk (24:47.119)

I think it's really cool that you've also taken what you do, creating your templates and building your tracks live and the site. There's so much stuff on here and you're also providing a way for other musicians to make money doing music as well. And I think that's just such a cool thing. Like you're getting to do the thing you love and you're helping other people do the thing they love. So that's a really cool gift to the world.

Mikas (25:14.828)

I think there's a thing in the music industry that is like the chance factor, right? The chance factor is sometime up to 80 % of your success, right? But if you come across, let's say our side, this one example I have is a guy from Ukraine, which is a very famous country these days still, sadly. He still lived there in Odessa, on the seaside. And I worked with him for, it must be almost 10 years now.

And you know, this guy started, he got out of conservatory, you know, was a classically trained pianist and he uploaded a few templates and I was like, wow, man, your stuff is great. You know, he loved trance, made some big, big banger tracks. And I was like, wow, your stuff is great. It's like, really? You know, so we exchanged some emails and he was not confident in what he was doing. Really? Not at all. He was, he was like, okay, I make music. I think it's great. And I really encouraged him. And at some point I gave him some writing contracts and, you know, we build a relationship and he still

still on the site, he's still one of the best sellers on the site, of course today, but he's been able to build himself a brand and got contract and did license on TV. And he really made this stuff a career and he live off it completely now. And I'm so proud to have contributed. So if I would not have been in his path, maybe he would have taken a completely different direction and you would be selling sandwiches on the corner of the street, right? Because you don't know. So the chance factor is important. So if you have a chance to do something and do it,

Brian Funk (26:38.158)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (26:41.631)

you know even the reward is not immense you're like maybe I can do this give it a try you know because

You never know where the road leads, you know, you just have to step forward into it. So it's a good example of what I've done. And this is like a story that's dear to my heart because I communicate with this guy a lot. And the fact that he's in Ukraine, I'm like, my God, okay. You know, it's an interesting part and I know he's making good living. And I'm like, great. And it's not only because of us, you know, we also started sending another side, did other things, you know, but the starting point was like, I like this guy, I trust him.

Let's move forward with that.

Brian Funk (27:19.854)

Mm -hmm.

That's great. And it's like the ripple effect, right? Maybe by showing some interest in what he does gives him a little more confidence and probably gives you more confidence working with him. It probably just back and forth relationship. It's, you know, as you give, you get, and it's a cool thing to see that, you know, people are doing that and sharing that. Cause it can be, the other route, I guess, is to be very competitive and

Mikas (27:23.66)

Exactly.

Brian Funk (27:52.334)

just wanna see everyone else as like the enemy, but a lot of the best things happen working together.

Mikas (27:56.461)

I think competition is not, it's a reality that people...

Believe in you know because you're competing with someone but do you think this person is competing with you? Not necessarily I don't I don't see you know, of course if you're on the internet like like I do like you are it is a big jungle, right? There's a lot of people in there But but it's about you know, the intention of what you are doing like for me. I have good intention You know, it's it's I do this from my heart because when I discover electronic music in 1993 Which is such a long time ago. I don't want to think about it. It really touched my heart. I was like man's music is just

just wow it really reached me right so I was like okay I like it I continue became a DJ continue my path eventually got to run a nightclub and I get the chance to put a notebook with a rebirth which is doesn't exist I think it's it's possible to get it still and I

re -birthed, re -birthed, it was an app on a PC and I plug in the sound system in the club that I was running which had 21 ,000 watts, you know, and I played with it, the club was empty, I had such a blast, I was like, my God, what is this thing? I'm making music right here. So since then, you know, I like, this is what I wanted to do. Done. There was no, I just didn't think about it, you know, discovered the music, no, I can't do it. Even in 1999, it was extremely costly, it was very complicated. I was like, okay, I found my thing, I found my path.

Brian Funk (28:50.766)

There's an app for that a while back. Yeah.

Brian Funk (29:09.678)

Yeah.

Mikas (29:19.741)

that's it and I think today there's a lot of people that discover music could be electronic could be any genre of music and they really fall in love you know like there's something in it that that feeds their soul and they want to go forward with it and I really I'm here to say to all those people just just do it just just they have to do it it's important it's fulfilling it's gonna be more fulfilling than any other work you're gonna do it will give you back like like nothing nothing else.

Brian Funk (29:51.662)

Totally agree. I owe so much to the music in general, just the decision to try to play it and follow it and learn from it. Yeah.

Mikas (29:57.995)

You're in a band, right? You do rock and roll, punky, like, you know...

Brian Funk (30:05.263)

Yeah, we're like a garage rock band and it's the three piece guitar, bass, drums, and yeah, two of my good friends. So it's a good hang, you know, you hang out and you're working on something. You're trying to solve problems together and sharing those experiences is a lot of fun. There's nothing like it. I love doing my solo work as well. You know, that's...

Mikas (30:05.482)

Garage Rock, I like that.

Mikas (30:24.011)

Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Funk (30:32.911)

great experience, but it's really nice too that you can also share it. You can do it with other people, different projects, and they're all enriching in their own way and they all help the other. So stuff I learned from my band helps my music and stuff I'm learning doing my own music helps the band. It's like everything strengthens every other muscle.

Mikas (30:51.677)

Absolutely and then you get to hang out and have relationships with people which is also one of the things that is much more difficult. Relationships are very important and it's one thing that is getting diluted into the world we live in and it's what is sad. This is what I want to work on next with the business that I'm doing is get people together as much as I can. I'm not going to...

Brian Funk (30:59.951)

Yeah, it's hard to maintain. People are busy. Yeah.

Mikas (31:20.106)

say that I have project for next year to really start going into big cities and doing meetups. Cause I think it's missing. I think, I think, I think people are really like the connection or dissolving and people are not getting together so much. And we really need to get together and meet people, you know, so it's make as strong as human is like being together, exchanging, maybe going to meet the right person, you know, maybe you won't, but at least you would have been within people. And when you go back home, it's like, wow, I met some people, they all do what I do. You know, I'm a part of something.

you have your own community, you know, and I think in music this is super important, a little bit of support, to have some people, you know, and like I said, it's sadly the people that wanted to bring that in society, the social network kind of actually did the opposite, you know, through what they've done, you know, for us. So it's good, but there's really kind of another side to it. So...

Brian Funk (31:53.742)

Mm -hmm.

Brian Funk (32:20.175)

Yeah, a lot of the things that have supposedly brought us closer together have kept us apart so we don't meet up as much, we don't get together as much. But that kind of stuff is really important to know, like you're not alone, there's other people doing it with you, to share in the struggle. All of that, especially because most of the time when you finish music and release it, it just kind of, it goes out there and, you know, nothing happens.

I always laugh at how we can, friends of mine and I, you know, we'll put out a song and it'll get like a couple clicks or likes, but put your dog chasing your tail on the internet and everyone loves it and everyone comes out to comment. It's hard to get that. And if it's such a rewarding thing, even if you don't get it. So to share that with other people.

to just know that they're going through it too and they've been through the struggle and they understand the challenges. It's really important to have community.

Mikas (33:22.315)

Yeah, absolutely. So this is what is, I want to do, like I said, I want to do people together in person. I think this would be saying that the internet is great because we can do what we're doing right now. And what we share is very valuable for the people that are outside that are looking, they get something out of this conversation perspective into what they do and what they can do is very important. And it's not like you can get...

Brian Funk (33:37.07)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (33:47.851)

this perspective through having a tutorial, right? What we're talking about is a little, is a lot deeper than just like the music production aspect and the techniques. The techniques are there, they're very important. However, there's a lot that goes around it that has to be considered, you know, if you go and venture into those space, you know, our work is not very glamorous, you know, it's, you're sitting at home in front of a computer and personally, I have to tell you my experience of collaborating.

with other musicians and through the 23 years and a half that I've been producing music, I collaborated in person with only one guy. So because we met and we kind of hit it off and we're like, hey man, yeah, you want to do music? Yeah, sure. And I was more advanced than him. So I teach them what I knew. And for me, when I go in the studio, I'm not like, I know the secret, I'm gonna hold it. Now I'm like, okay, let's do it. I know this, so we build tracks together. And I have to tell you, it actually led...

me to create Women's Dance Music because of this collaboration. It was unknown territory, right? So I'm like, we're gonna do a session every Thursday, we do those sessions, we really stick to it. Every Thursday we went, we actually drink quite a bit, we party, we're in the studio making music, making trance -y stuff, mainly progressive in 2011, 2010.

And then I finished a session with him and he sent me the files, you know, and while I was walking home, I get a text, you know, send space or something.

And like I get the files, I'm like, man, how do people could get those files? They would have a blast, you know, right? That was April 23rd, 2012. And I just, I just look, I remember looking at my phone and I think this idea and like, what am I going to call it? We make dance music. I'm like, boom. It's like, it's like because of A, B happened, you know, it's something that you cannot, you don't know, you know, so imagine.

Brian Funk (35:44.11)

Yeah.

Mikas (35:45.195)

I want to do meetup, why? Because people connect and you don't know what's gonna come out of it, right? So you never know, but if you don't take at least one step forward toward it, you're never gonna know. So you might be scared of showing up, you might be scared of emailing a label, you might be scared of getting in touch with you, let's say Brian, or getting in touch with me. And I think, no man, you should really move forward, take action immediately. I think this is what drive...

that make the difference between the people who maybe linger a little bit and are like...

feeling a bit miserable and the people that are like, okay, I think I'm making progress. You know, I didn't do very much, but at least I emailed Bob Sinclair with my new track, right? Or I did something, you know, and I, I was really, I did that. I was really intentional, you know, because this guy music really influenced me when I was younger. And it was like, this music's amazing. I get to find his email address. He's got a studio in Paris. I don't know. Did a lot of homework on this one. Finally get to send him an email, say, Hey man, thank you very much for your music. You really influenced me. I'm really grateful for this.

Brian Funk (36:44.366)

Alright.

Mikas (36:46.684)

send me my latest track. He sent me some feedback two days after I was like, you know, it's, it's, but I put in the work, right? I did the steps. It didn't happen just by magic. You know, that let's say my CD ended up in the CEO of whatever Universal Music, right? No, this is not going to happen, right? It has to be intentional. You have to do something about it, but then you feel, wow, I've done something. So I can tell you the story because I've took the steps. Without those steps, I would have really nothing to say right now.

Brian Funk (36:56.078)

Wow. Right.

Brian Funk (37:07.502)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (37:16.54)

The track was great. He said that I should do this, this and that. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take that in consideration. For me, the track was great, but you know, it's...

Brian Funk (37:21.23)

Right.

Mikas (37:25.866)

It's a bit of the story of intentionality, if this is a word, I think it is a word, and really wanting to do something and take it micro steps a little bit at the time, you know, to really move forward and feel like, okay, I'm doing something toward my goal, toward my career goal, toward my music goal, you know. So this conversation is about that. I think it's about little bits of progress, you know, that really, really cumulates year over years to, you know, having a reputation, having something, having

Brian Funk (37:34.511)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (37:55.772)

an audience having fun, having ultimately sales shows, something like that. So some people know it like your students in your class, they knew it already. They were 14, they were already at it. So people understand when they're young, some people understand when they're older. If they listen to this podcast, they might understand it now.

Brian Funk (38:14.018)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (38:20.43)

Hmm. It's a good, I like the way you put it. You don't get to B if you don't get A first. You got to do that, do something, take some action and the results and that collaboration story is a great one. You know, that you guys did that and that makes you suddenly see what's possible. That's the great fun of when you start interacting with other people, working with other people is you react to them and it's something you wouldn't have done because you didn't have that stimulus.

Mikas (38:30.986)

Absolutely.

Brian Funk (38:50.03)

coming in and then they react to you and then there's a whole other layer of reactions that happen over that.

Mikas (38:52.81)

It's basically the cumulative effect of us working together made...

What we've made was beyond like 5X what I could do on my own and what I can do on his own. Like literally, like it was not. And I use my strength. So basically we're good to create, you know, we're good to compose and put the ideas down and better to mix. I had a better set up for acoustic. So I send the track to myself, you know, right? We send the track at the end of the session is what got me to create We Make Nice Music because we use our strength. I use my strength. And then we really, I had no clue this will happen.

Brian Funk (39:08.526)

Mm -hmm. Right.

Mikas (39:28.22)

ever in my life, right? But this led to that. And again, it's playing on strength and, you know, just putting the ideas down and really sticking to it. Like, that's it.

Brian Funk (39:45.358)

So cool. It's so true too. And every time I go there, I realize it. Yeah, yeah, sure. Anytime you play with other people, anytime you interact, talk, have a conversation like this even, a lot happens.

Mikas (39:48.553)

You go there? Yeah.

Mikas (39:55.754)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Trying to find your match might be... I'm not gonna say it's a tough call. It's gonna be... It's not like... I don't think you should chase this so much as you should open to other people to see if the vibe is there. You don't know. So I have another story for you. I was looking for a co -founder and...

technical co -founder and you know couldn't find anybody went on the net hire some programmers here and there nothing nothing works I show up at an event I'm at my match across the table he loved electronics music listening to biceps and stuff and then we started chatting hit it off amazing he didn't become a co -founder because of some lawyer stories but that's another story but we I built most of the functions and understood what I could do with technology thanks to him you know because he was way ahead and he

Brian Funk (40:36.718)

Really?

Mikas (40:49.724)

He was a programmer, you know, like a full stack developer that made me realize that yes, it's possible to execute my vision and there's no really boundary in technology. You know, technology is open. You can do anything. You can imagine the technology can be done unless the law doesn't permit it. Let's say this is kind of the layer that you shouldn't. If it's illegal, don't do it. But otherwise, technology is really helping us move forward to what we do.

Brian Funk (41:15.566)

Right.

Mikas (41:19.827)

you

Brian Funk (41:24.406)

Yeah, I wanted to ask you a little bit about when you were talking about ritual and vision, when you start a track. And I think a lot of us can relate to this idea. We want to start a track. We don't know what we're going to do yet. We're kind of just going to see where the vibe takes us. But you seem to have a method, and you said a ritual, of visualizing really what it is you want to create before you sit down. What is that process?

Mikas (41:26.185)

Yep.

Mikas (41:51.147)

So basically, my wife is a coach. So I started scheduling what I want to do.

Brian Funk (41:54.254)

look like.

Mikas (41:59.659)

on my agenda and even putting down the genre, putting the ideas on that day I'm going to create a minimal techno track, you know, and then the day they let it master it in my mind, you know, it's there, it exists, it has to exist on paper, right? It has to be concrete, you have to put it down. I prefer paper personally because paper here, here though, this is very important. So I put it down and then it tend to form in my subconscious, like it just, it exists after you put it down.

down it exists as something concrete and before I do it a lot of the time I will sit here I will listen to some example you know I made this let's talk about that minimal techno track that I've done that is a tribute to Richie Otten you know which I absolutely love which was one of my biggest influence we're talking 1995 1996 you know and I heard this track live countless amount of time and I have it in my mind you know it exists because this this music I really it was a highly influential to me and then

before the session itself I had a ritual I take a shower put some clothes on and really focus like I'm gonna make this okay what am I gonna need okay this this element this element this man so I think and concretely concretize what I'm gonna need and then when I sit down to create

I don't really have an agenda, I really kind of let it flow and with practice it does come out exactly what I wanted. But I think the most important for me is to put it down, to write it down and then to prepare and then to really have it clear that this is what I am doing on that day. It might sound a little bit esoterical but...

If it's down, it exists, right? An idea exists, it's formed, it starts to germ, it's like a seed. And then that's it, it comes and using the skills that I have and maybe preparing a little bit the session as in, okay, I'm gonna need some drum, I'm gonna need some synth, maybe I'm gonna prepare a pad, maybe I'm gonna prepare some percussions, something that I know if I start playing the keys, the ideas will flow, it will work. That's about it.

Brian Funk (44:11.951)

We definitely have this sort of myth of the creative person that kind of comes out of nowhere and is inspired and just spur the moment it happens and it's like magic, right? Like they're struck by lightning or something, but it does really seem like there's so much more deliberate intention and action in reality that...

Mikas (44:32.169)

You see...

Brian Funk (44:36.911)

These are people that put it, like you said, on the calendar, this is what we're gonna work on, this is the problem we're gonna solve, this is when we get to work. It's not let's sit on the mountain top and wait for it to strike us. But there's some writer has a quote that says, I write what I'm inspired. Fortunately, I get inspired every morning at 9 a So meaning like, I show up and that's how it works.

Mikas (44:57.576)

Yeah.

Mikas (45:02.377)

That's about it, there's no...

You said it, you said it very well. There's one thing that I forget to mention in, in, in what I was talking about is intention is really have to have the deep intention to, to create, to do something. It has to be tangible. You know, you're not just like, I'm going to show up. I'm going to do it and it's going to work out. No, no, I have the intention to create. I scheduled it. I'm prepared. This is something that I really love to do. You know, I'm not really doing any of the tutorial that I've done just because I, this is a hot jar. My melodic house is out of stock.

something and I want to do a tutorial to get some views. I never intended to get views, you know, even some of the video I have like I got 100 views. I'm like, this is not very important. For me, I sit and I did my best. This is a quote that I've seen a very rare interview with John Travolta. And he's like, I don't mind, you know, there's a lot of movie that I've done that I've were not very welcomed by the public, right? Because the public, they was like, he's like, look, I show up, I've done my very best. And that's it. I cannot blame my

myself from for like not showing up and not doing my best. So if you show up, you do your best, you get your own satisfaction. I've done the work. Okay, what's next? The critics is very unimportant, you know, another like the comments and all this, this is all this is irrelevant. You know, if you really done your best, you had intention, you were there, you show up, you know, just the people that are there, maybe commenting or being negative, they're not showing up. They're not doing the work. They don't have the intention. You know, it's

like I'm sorry but you put this against like this sorry it doesn't doesn't equal up it's not it's not valid so

Mikas (46:46.984)

I...

Brian Funk (46:47.279)

Every time I make a comment on a YouTube video, I'm not making music. I'm not doing it. So it does help sometimes to think that if you get the negativity, but you have to show up. That's the only thing you can control, I guess, is doing the work, putting in your best. You don't know. It's a...

Mikas (47:01.864)

Yep.

Brian Funk (47:14.319)

And I think the success rate is probably a lot like to go back to baseball. If you're hitting the ball three out of ten times and getting on base, you're gonna be in the Hall of Fame. And if you show up three out of ten times and come out with a song you like, that's pretty darn good. That's not bad at all, you know? And if you'd sort of just trust in that, and like maybe...

Mikas (47:21.223)

Yep.

Mikas (47:35.975)

So let's say you play lock, okay? This is a good analogy to do with music production, you play lock. So if you lock key...

One time out of a hundred, okay? If you try only time, if you try only a hundred time, you get only one chance to win. If you try a thousand time, you know, you get a hundred chance to win. That's what you have to do. You cannot, you cannot win if you don't just try and try and try and try. Like I said, it's, it's, and because our industry is a very big chance factor, chance to get discovered on YouTube, chance to get the right people to hear your music, chance to be at the right place at the right time.

you know as we just spoke to like talk about so put just get get your handful of chances you know by taking the right amount of action then you most likely gonna get lucky at some point if you don't give up

Cassini -Stadt did a video about that, literally, that it does take a lot of try to succeed. It's never really chance, I think it's tenacity. It's like just sticking to it. This video is literally about this. I don't know how you're gonna title it, but this is what we know. We're both consistent.

Brian Funk (48:32.75)

Mm -hmm. Yep.

Brian Funk (48:46.798)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (48:54.054)

players in this game of music, of life, that we show up. We do the work. This is why we're still here and probably why we're still going to be here in 10 years.

Brian Funk (49:07.119)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (49:13.071)

I've come to convince myself that all big things are made up of lots of little things. So it's like building a house out of bricks. You have to put each brick in there. Like you don't, you don't just like one day put the whole wall up at once. You have to keep showing up, keep showing up. And if you do that, it does eventually build, you know, it's, you have to sort of,

Mikas (49:13.99)

Absolutely.

Mikas (49:21.222)

Yep.

Brian Funk (49:42.063)

think of it in the long term, you know, that eventually, even when I started playing guitar, my real main method was to just play guitar every day, even if it was a couple minutes, because I knew people that had been playing for like three years and they sounded so good. I'm like, well, one day I will have been playing for three years if I just keep playing, keep going. And that has been a big, that was a big lesson for me in life actually, because...

Mikas (49:47.974)

Yep.

Mikas (50:06.25)

So...

Brian Funk (50:12.495)

I think it was one of the first things I ever really took on myself and saw that starting from nothing too. I didn't understand anything about music whatsoever and realizing like you can actually get better at things. You can build things from nothing.

Mikas (50:26.662)

So how's your guitar now? Is the question.

It's great.

Brian Funk (50:35.471)

It's great. Yeah. And I mean, I feel like, look, I'm not like a master guitar player or anything, but I feel comfortable on the instrument. I can find music and I can play along with people. I can create on it. It's my most familiar way to interact with music. Yeah. It's like a second nature kind of feeling.

Mikas (50:54.918)

That's that's where you get this practice right so you can play literally. Yeah Absolutely

Brian Funk (51:03.599)

Yeah, that's the only way to get there is to just be doing it a lot. And even still at this, after all these years, there's waves, you know, there's been times where I was, maybe I was doing more of my production and then the guitar didn't get picked up that often. And, and, you know, you lose it a little bit. You still have some understanding, but yeah, it does slip away. I think it comes back a little faster once you've already had it, but,

Yeah, the more I work at it, the more consistent I am with working at it, more than anything I think. The more often I pick it up, the better. I think I'm way better off picking it up for 10 minutes a day every day than for an hour once a week.

Mikas (51:36.23)

Oops.

Mikas (51:45.158)

That's it. This is my son playing piano for I think it's been three months and a half now and he likes it. You know, it's not, we're not forcing him and every week he gets one hour lesson every week, every Thursday get his lesson. But through the week, because he really liked, he likes Star Wars. So he does play the Imperial March now, which is a bit creepy. Okay. You know, and he's playing it.

And he practices like every chance you get to wake up in the morning at six, he's playing piano. It's like, and a chance is playing it and he's playing it faster. He's playing it slower. He's doing the chords and then he's doing the second verse. And, you know, I said to the teacher, you have to teach him some verse, you know, and he's like, well, but it's only six and something. I'm like, no, just teach him the track. He's going to take it. You know, he loves, he loves the song. So you play Imperial March, you play Minecraft, the team, which is also an interesting track, but we don't force him to do anything. We just say, just what, what do you.

Brian Funk (52:09.678)

Cool. Yeah.

Brian Funk (52:34.478)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (52:39.432)

want to play you know and he's playing and he loves it and he practices he practices consistently like really every day sometime half an hour sometime an hour.

like a little, and you know, I think it's gonna be very good over time, you know? It's not, that's it. This is the process of a six years old. It applies at every age. You could be 50 and you could decide to become a writer if you want, in my humble opinion. Or you can decide to become a programmer. You can decide to become a marketer. I personally want to become a salesman, you know, now, like I'm on.

salesy kind of person because I think I need to reinvent myself a little bit and get out of my comfort zone. My comfort zone is sitting here on my computer and doing my thing and if I do only this, well I will just come, it will end right? But I don't want to end. I want to move a little bit forward to do sales, to meet more people and the sales, you know, sales are about relationship, you know, it's about building relationship with people who will get the product.

who hopefully they need, not they won't, they need, it's kind of my sales pitch. And then that's it, I build a relationship with somebody, he's satisfied, done. So it's there, it exists, it's something tangible and it's very difficult. We just talked about it, it's becoming strangely more and more difficult to build relationship with people. You might have something very static, the first yes, but then to really...

To have something tangible, to have trust, to connect with somebody is... Maybe I'm getting old, maybe that plays as a factor, right? But it's tough. You have to do some effort, you know? So the same as a relationship with partners and stuff. It's complicated.

Brian Funk (54:38.639)

Yeah, I think in our world, everything has become like so mass produced, right? Like you can email everyone on your list, you know, this generic thing and, you know, maybe what you say reaches people and it makes a difference, but it's generic. It's not just for them. But I think I get the best relationships building with my work.

Mikas (55:05.19)

Yep.

Brian Funk (55:07.407)

on like very one -on -one ways. So if it's an email somebody sends me and if I write them like a real heartfelt response, like that, the effort, it's, you think of like things being scalable, like I guess you can't do that to everybody, but the people that you take the time for with that stuff stick with you. And I feel the same way as well when someone gives me that attention.

that like, wow, you know, like this person's really cool. Like that was really nice of them. And it makes you want to support them more. It makes you want to work with them. It makes you want to help them out if you can. Because they took the time to be personal and have a real interaction instead of any kind of mass interaction that I don't enjoy. But the personal stuff I can get something out of. Like that's nice.

Mikas (55:41.318)

Absolutely.

Brian Funk (56:04.719)

And honestly, like with the podcast, for instance, I get emails from people to be on the show or whatever. And I'm almost looking to see if this is a personal email or if this is something I can delete. That's kind of my mindset when I'm going through all these messages. And if it's something that I feel is like, dear podcaster, you know, and then it's just like, we love your show and

Mikas (56:22.694)

no, Brian.

Mikas (56:30.342)

That's...

Brian Funk (56:33.327)

It's like, I don't need to read that because it's not even for me. But when it's like, hi, Brian, like I listened to this episode and it's specific or whatever. And it's like, this person really wrote to me. So I feel like I'm going to give them the time back.

Mikas (56:42.662)

Well, thank you very much for that. This is like I get in touch because...

Cause I was like, Brian. And then we, we upload your products to the site, right? And then I was looking at your products, like, man. And I was actually watching the videos and I was like, Jesus, you create man. I was, I was impressed. And I was like, and then I remembered that I started what I was doing because of you, as I told you earlier, and it was like, I have to get in touch with you. I like, I, it was there. There was something palpable. I was like, like, I need some more promo podcasts. I need some, no, no. I was like, yeah, really, really. And I, I.

I cannot recall the first podcast, I will have to watch it after this one because a lot has happened to me since then, I moved 3 countries. It's a bit crazy. I'm in Poland now. I'm in Gdansk in the north of Poland because my wife is Polish. My second son was born here so he's also Polish. Before that I was in Barcelona. Before that I was in the south of France. Actually Barcelona, south of France and then here.

Brian Funk (57:34.158)

Where are you now?

no way.

Mikas (57:46.054)

It's... Yep, yep, I was in Spain. Yeah, yeah, so it's... We'll probably be back there within a year or two knowing our crazy, you know, kind of we... We're a little bit not nomads, but...

Brian Funk (57:51.439)

I think you were in Spain when we spoke years ago. Yeah, that's cool.

Mikas (58:01.318)

kind of like to experience different cultures. So Spain is interesting here. It's also very interesting. It's surprising me, you know, by the people are very nice. It's, it's dynamic. The only thing is the weather is not so nice like England, you know, it's like very rainy, but otherwise what, what a country, man, what a place like the people, the, the, the, it's extraordinary to experience this. You know, I think I'm very lucky. I'm enriching my, my culture, you know, to, to, to,

Brian Funk (58:03.726)

Hehehe

Brian Funk (58:25.998)

Yeah.

Mikas (58:31.272)

living through places. Some people they do travels, right? So for us we live in places, you know, for a certain amount of time and then we're like, wow, this is great here, you know, and then we have plans to go live in London for a year and, you know, go to Canada for a couple years, you know, it's, it's to live. Culture is interesting, you know, it's, it's, it's different.

Mikas (58:57.542)

Absolutely.

Brian Funk (58:59.823)

That's another thing that will fuel your music and your art and just everything you're learning, you're getting new perspectives, your kids are gonna be way more cultured from this.

Mikas (59:06.086)

Lian is trialing all already, so if we go back to Spain he's gonna have four, so...

Brian Funk (59:15.631)

Really? Wow. I mean, what an asset that is, right? For whatever he wants to do with his life.

Mikas (59:19.622)

My wife speaks five languages, so quite fluently, except the French is not so fluent because we didn't go deep on this one. But it's like speaking the music language, the programming language. There's a lot of language in life that are more than just spoken. Speaking is a language, of course, it's like our primary means of expression. But there's dancing, there's expressing yourself to music, there is expressing yourself even through code, through writing websites, through design.

Brian Funk (59:34.03)

Mm -hmm.

Brian Funk (59:39.343)

Right.

Mikas (59:49.696)

I do a little bit of coding, I do design and I understand websites, how they work. I'm not so deep into it, but I'm deep enough to, I think I have that as an asset of an understanding of this world that exists, which gives me perspective to another world. So if you can read code and understand what's happening with it, it's like, okay, I can read this. Can I read English? Great. Can read Polish, can read French. Can read French. Can read French.

other languages it's definitely a plus you know for your brain to have more dimensions.

Brian Funk (01:00:31.439)

Yeah, and I've always, and I don't know, because I only speak English and understand some Spanish sometimes. But sometimes, yeah. Now, well, I took Spanish all through high school in, I think, two years or at least a full year in college. And I did great in Spanish. I got high 90s. I learned how to do well in Spanish class.

Mikas (01:00:34.538)

Sometimes, just sometimes. Is that after tequila or?

Okay.

Mikas (01:00:50.025)

Yeah. Nice. okay. Okay.

Brian Funk (01:01:00.911)

I didn't learn how to speak Spanish or really understand it. I learned how to pass the tests and, you know, do what the worksheets and all of that. but I've had a lot more experience with it in the last few years with my teaching, teaching at the high school. And, more and more you start to pick it up just by being around it. But I can see how, when my students start learning English, how their thinking changes.

They have like a whole other language to think in, to consider thoughts and ideas. And I mean, there's so many words in so many different languages that we don't have words for in English. And when you learn them, they open up your eyes to concepts that maybe you didn't really think about before, or at least you haven't consolidated into a single word.

Mikas (01:01:48.649)

Exactly. It's dimensions, you know, that you have to understand things. And of course, in different languages, the vocabulary is completely different. I learned a little bit of Polish, actually, a fair amount of vocabulary. Not so much to speak, but to understand and how...

the language is and the language implies a culture and the culture is really surrounding me and I have no choice to be in it, to absorb it and to be influenced by it and this is a wonderful thing. It's not a minus, it's definitely a plus to be, but if you live in New York City, you're surrounded by every culture on earth, literally. So it's also a plus, but it's not the same. So if you go live in Tunisia as an example,

you'd be surrounded by something completely different. It's a different culture, it's a bad and then you will take some from it, you will absorb something that would be of a positive impact. You cannot just kind of shrug it off your shoulder, it's deep, it's important.

Brian Funk (01:02:40.654)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (01:02:57.321)

Yep.

Brian Funk (01:02:58.318)

Yeah.

Right. Yeah. It becomes part of your philosophy. I think you mentioned music as a language too, and it really is. And as you learn it and speak it, and especially with other people, other players, and you understand that sometimes you should keep your mouth shut, not play as much, or let someone else speak and then respond musically. And that feeling when you're...

Mikas (01:03:11.785)

Hahaha!

Brian Funk (01:03:26.606)

locked in on an idea or a feeling or a vibe or groove that you're interacting, you're communicating. It's like having a great conversation with somebody.

Mikas (01:03:30.315)

Absolutely music should be a conversation like it is like between I'm a big prog rock kind of Kind of fan, you know, probably like the classic plug rock prog rock and there's a lot of conversation in this music, you know, there's a lot of Answering there's a lot of movement and it speaks, you know It's not only there's a lot of instrumental pieces that doesn't have any words and you just listen to this and you're like there is something in there that is that is there that's being passed on and you shouldn't

Brian Funk (01:03:49.998)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (01:04:00.221)

disregard this. Yes, there's music with a lot of lyrics and you know, there's a lot of empty music with lyrics that are maybe not so great. However, there's something behind it. You know, I think, you know, this is I give you an example is like some American hip hop, you know, that's like somehow the lyrics, the substance is might not be might be shallow on the surface, but there's still something musically there. There's something there's a message. They had an intention. They put on some music maybe.

Like I said, it might not be what it is on the surface of it, what you can hear and what you can interpret. I think there's always something deeper in music. There's an expression of the soul that somebody wanted to give something and that's it. Whatever the music is, the genres, it's all, it's very relative at this point. I love, I actually got the chance to go see a concert here in Gdansk a couple months ago and the guy was an accordionist, like an emirate accordionist.

is extraordinary and I rarely felt what I felt during this show and it's accordion I mean I didn't expect that I didn't know what was gonna play on that name my wife invited me is like we're going to see a show in a nice auditorium like cool and then this guy started playing I was completely blown away he played with a band they all had their parts live I was sitting literally on the stage it was quite quite exceptional

But the language he spoke, what he pushed to people was extraordinary. This joy, those moments were really soul touching. Wow, what a show, really. And it was unexpected, it's not even music that I normally would care for, but it spoke to me, really literally, so that's it.

Brian Funk (01:05:55.054)

Yeah. And it's nice to be in those situations where you're with large groups of people all getting those messages together and it's the audience becomes kind of one with every, with the performers and the players.

Mikas (01:05:55.881)

Yep.

Mikas (01:06:02.157)

This is what I think a lot of people look for. You know, what is missing in today's world is the connections, like we talked about earlier, where people want to connect.

But connecting is being vulnerable, is letting go of fear. You can't do that in a group with electronic music. This happens a lot in this way. I think electronic music is so popular. Everybody gets together in a gathering and everybody lets go together at the same time with this music that is pumping, that is hypnotizing them. And they all become a part of this moment, this consciousness. And everybody feels like they're a part of something. And this is very enriching. I think

Brian Funk (01:06:15.15)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:06:35.342)

Right.

Mikas (01:06:41.869)

You could do that with any music, but electronic music in particular has this hypnotism, has this vibe, you know, and the people, they found themselves in it, you know, there's really something there. It's what happened to me in 1993, you know, when I discovered it, and it still has this effect on me. And I know what people feel. And I think a lot of people, they're not conscious of this kind of phenomenon of the people together. They go to the show and like, the show was great, you know, but no, no, you have to think. People really get

together and the music that was played really reached everyone and they were literally fanatic about it and that's an experience, the newer, almost kind of religious experience that the people have and this is it, this is nice, this is what people get out of it and on our end is to create, to give to those people, to create something, you know, to...

give back and in the end it will get received as a language, as something to be felt.

Brian Funk (01:07:52.751)

Yeah, electronic music has a way of lending itself to those feelings of like this communal thing that's happening. I wonder if it's a lot of other kinds of music when you're watching performers play instruments, everyone looks there. But in a lot of electronic music, it's more about dancing, it's more about being in the crowd, and there's not as much.

A lot of times anyway, a focal person you're watching the whole time create it. They can set in the background a little bit more. Let the light show be the show a bit.

Mikas (01:08:28.621)

But so I think you kind of lose yourself to find yourself. You know, you were in, I experienced that a lot personally, many more because I don't really go out anymore, very much sadly. I go see concerts, you know, classical more. I love film music and stuff, but.

Brian Funk (01:08:40.879)

huh.

Mikas (01:08:44.685)

I know that this experience is very valuable for younger people to have this experience, to be a part of something because then you go back home and you text people and you're really, it's static. If you're within 5 ,000 people and everybody's uplifted, this is a moment to share and it's exciting and you remember it and it's tangible. It's a tangible moment. It's not a text. It's not like WhatsApp, Instagram, whatever that is. It's really a moment lived. It's important to have that.

Brian Funk (01:09:09.839)

Yeah.

Mikas (01:09:14.638)

moments.

Brian Funk (01:09:22.575)

Yeah, we've definitely had a lot of advances in communication, but it's made it simpler, faster, and in a lot of ways, like cheaper. It's not the face -to -face conversation. It's not sitting down with each other and talking. It's one of the things I love about what we're doing, you know, even though we are doing it through a screen where we're not distracted by other things. I've got my headphones on. I only hear you. I'm only looking at you.

Mikas (01:09:30.124)

Exactly.

Mikas (01:09:48.46)

Yeah, that's it.

Brian Funk (01:09:52.143)

and everything else is kind of waiting. It's a rare thing to get in our everyday lives.

Mikas (01:09:53.997)

I wish I would have more of that, but I just wish for the people around to want to get more of this, you know, that's it. This is really what came out because, you know, we didn't set up so much an agenda of what we're going to talk about, you know, but somehow this came true now as something that is there, that is important, you know, and like I said, like for me, I'm not so much part of a...

or many things to see many people but I feel that it's like sadly people are drifting apart and this hurt my heart to know that

It's it's there's no more there's not so much tangible things that are happening between people and it's eventually will lead to You know people being very depressed and feel lonely and then it's a difficult thing You know, I will not feel that because I have two son, you know So I know the other side of the love experiencing the love of children, right? but the other side of this is People will not get to have children if they do not open and do things because they are You know that there's some really bad statistics on that in Italy

They have the lowest birthrate since the 1800s, you know, because the society is really falling apart like literally it's really a weird thing It's gonna collapse. So it's it's kind of the root is we have to We have to to get together and do things and maybe find a loved one Maybe you know, it's gonna be a person of your life. Maybe you have children. Maybe you make music Maybe you do something but fundamentally You have to get together

Brian Funk (01:11:12.27)

Really?

Brian Funk (01:11:33.583)

Yeah. I tell you, sometimes I get a little worried about things like that at my job. I'm teaching mostly ninth grade students, which make them about like 14 or 15. So if you remember that age, it's a crazy age, you know? And your friends are like everything, you know, really important in your life. It used to be, if I wasn't in my classroom,

Mikas (01:11:44.267)

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Brian Funk (01:12:04.271)

And all the students were in the classroom for whatever reason. Maybe they got there before me or something. It'd be chaos. They'd be, it'd be loud. There'd be kids hanging from the ceiling. You know, you'd have to worry. They're going to try to jump out the window. Like it would be madness, but now it's silence. It's mostly silence and it's just people looking at their phones, playing a game or scrolling on whatever they're on. It that's.

Mikas (01:12:07.755)

I'm going to go to bed.

Mikas (01:12:16.139)

No.

Brian Funk (01:12:33.679)

of the norm and they're not turning towards the person next to them as much. They're not interacting like they used to and it's a change I've seen in the you know 18 years I guess it's been since I started that it's kind of weird sometimes when you're in a quiet room with 30, 14, and 15 year olds. It's quiet. Yeah.

Mikas (01:12:47.019)

well 30, so there has to be some, I'm not gonna say someone, but some people or a movement that has started for people to go against this madness that is happening, you know, because it's...

I think so. I think that technology will get to a point of saturation where people will go back to the roots. I think it's a cycle. I really hope so. Of course, a lot of people will be left completely entangled in it and there's no way they will find a way out of it. But some will, I think.

Brian Funk (01:13:11.854)

I hope so. And I can imagine that happening where they kind of...

Mikas (01:13:30.667)

Hopefully, I personally limit, I don't have my phone, I have zero on my phone. I don't use email, don't use anything. Banking, music, and that's about it. Messaging a little bit for business, but that's it. And phone, no, this is the most dangerous object in the collections of the... However, it's the most useful, it's the most wonderful. I have to tell you this story. When I was...

When I was 15, I was with my friend and we're young and we're a bit crazy and we're drinking and stuff.

We're like men that would love to have this device of a Walkman, because then we had Walkman with cassettes, a Walkman with a cell phone and maybe a little computer on it and stuff, but this was far from even being taught about, because I had the cell phone here and it was actually quite a brick still back then. And then I have my Walkman here and then I couldn't really do anything with those two and they were fairly sizable and they were completely clunky and really...

Brian Funk (01:14:21.134)

Right. Yeah.

Mikas (01:14:36.269)

useless unless you want to do phone calls with it, you know. And the music player were like a cassette, you know, that it's just run out of batteries all the time. The cassette just breaks. It's like you have to record your own, you know, it's woof. It was in a very effective way, you know, and we...

Brian Funk (01:14:46.99)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:14:50.83)

Mm -hmm.

Brian Funk (01:14:54.655)

Hey me

Mikas (01:14:57.675)

Aye, ha.

Brian Funk (01:15:01.39)

And if you want different music, you needed lots of cassettes with you. So usually you had your Walkman, but you listened to the tape and then you were kind of done with it.

Mikas (01:15:02.571)

I had like a vinyl collection and then I had my cassette, I was recording to cassette to listen to it outside the home, you know, so that was my kind of thing. So it's a long time ago, but we dreamed about this device, this magical device, you know, that would be so awesome, but it happened, you know, it happened not so long, I mean, you know, 15, 20 years later it happened. But is it really that good that we will...

Brian Funk (01:15:17.966)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (01:15:35.243)

Well, what they didn't imagine is you would have all the knowledge of the world at your fingertip any time of the day and night. That's a problem. That's a problem. So, and then...

Brian Funk (01:15:37.167)

It's way more powerful than our imaginations or even like Star Trek imagined.

Brian Funk (01:15:51.119)

Yep. So tempting to look at for, yeah. Yeah. I mean, at any time you could be having a conversation, let me just look up, you know, how old is that actor? You know, what, what movie was that person in? Or you can just constantly turn to it. And when you make a music, it's the same way you can constantly, let me just go on the internet and look this up. Let me check this. Let me see what this is about and distract you from what you're doing.

Mikas (01:16:01.643)

And then then...

Mikas (01:16:10.283)

And that, that...

That's only the beginning. Then there's going to be AI that's going to come in as a companion, as I use already quite a lot, like a ChudGTP. And then that's another layer of complete on personalization where you're literally talking to a machine. So that would remove even more one layer of communications. It's just gone. Another one, that it was already thin, it was already diluted.

but now it's going to become an unexistent because you're just going to have this thing that you can talk to, you can do things for you anytime you want. So imagine the next step is coming, it's just around the corner, what's here, but it's not so powerful already.

Brian Funk (01:16:44.718)

Hmm.

Mikas (01:16:58.827)

And then there's going to be another stage that is going to come. So people will go even more off. And then it's going to be VR, AR, and they're going to go more off. And where is the humanity in the person that is going with that? Where? What do we have left of being human? We're like literally androids, like machine kind of integrated into those interfaces and those things. So what do we do to create music? What's left?

You don't know? Here you go.

Brian Funk (01:17:36.335)

I don't know. I don't know. Well, sometimes it's just so nice to pick up an acoustic instrument. If you sit at a piano and you just, or you just hit a drum or an acoustic guitar, it almost feels like magic because you didn't have to turn it on. It's wireless. It doesn't need a speaker. It's sometimes that's just such a nice way to play music with other people too. Just the thing you're holding is all it is. And that's.

Mikas (01:17:46.987)

It is.

Brian Funk (01:18:08.047)

I could understand the movement and I get that myself too sometimes I got to get away from all this and just do it the old way.

Mikas (01:18:08.331)

I personally like to go gardening so I'm like...

done. I'm lucky enough to be able to do this. So I'm like, okay, this comes from my youth from a long time ago. I've always seen my father build big gardens and cultivate a bunch of things. And I'm like, I'll do that too. Not that I'm doing great at it. It's not extremely important, but at least, it's having those moments of complete focus onto one thing. That's it. It's what people have to think about. It could be reading. It could be gardening like me. It could be cycling. Cycling is a demanding thing because you have to be aware of it.

your surrounding like could be skateboarding could be any activities that take you off completely that you can focus completely on it for like half an hour an hour at the time you know and then then after that you have a little bit more perspective and you can go back into your you know productivity or work or something like that and I think people don't don't do this enough you know for me gardening what do you do to escape this world that we're in right now?

Brian Funk (01:18:51.086)

Mm -hmm.

Brian Funk (01:19:19.599)

I think those are such important activities, exercise, anything that kind of forces you to stop thinking about your problems all the time. You know, you could just keep stuff going on in your head over and over and over and just, it's like being in a whirlpool and you start telling yourself imaginary things, have conversations in your head with other people, imagining worst case scenarios. But when you're involved in something that...

Mikas (01:19:47.243)

Yep, absolutely.

Brian Funk (01:19:49.199)

You can focus on when you come back to those problems, you're looking at it from another perspective. You've had a break. Instead of standing on this side of it, you're on the other side and you're looking at it and you see different solutions or you realize it's not as bad. You're not ruminating constantly.

Mikas (01:20:02.923)

Yeah, you tell me. It's still show up in the office and work, but you know with some maybe some space in between and better focus.

Brian Funk (01:20:21.727)

Yeah. Well, it happens with music even too. I need breaks. And I know there's probably a period of like an hour and a half maybe where things start really declining and the progress starts slowing and just got to get out of there. It's probably not even an hour and a half. It's probably less time really, but getting that break is just really helpful.

Mikas (01:20:26.027)

Yep, yeah, yeah.

Mikas (01:20:39.403)

I think an hour and a half is a good amount of time for sure. You know, depending on the task you do, if, if, if you stick to it too long, you will, you might at least mess up the work you've done before, you know, because your brain it's a, I think producing music or working on music or practicing music is a very, like we talked about earlier, it's a very intensive thing for the brain. You know, it has to focus. It has to, you don't just, the music don't come in and you just interpret it. You know, not, this is just not, and mostly if you're,

in the process of making it, it does take quite a bit of brain power and I would guess a lot of sugar you know to feed the brain and you have to have this...

enough of it to be able to keep going, you know, unless you drink 15 coffees or, you know, drink some yerba mate or something. Maybe, maybe you'll do a little bit longer, but at some point you'll have to, you'll have to stop, you know, that's it. So I have a, I do, when I do work a lot, I have a gym next door, so I've waited. So this is, it's a weird thing. Okay. But I could be here working and I go do a set and then I come back here and work and go do another set. It's a bit mad.

Brian Funk (01:21:42.575)

Yeah.

Mikas (01:21:53.995)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:21:56.303)

That's funny. I have like a couple weights and kettlebells over there and sometimes I do the same thing. Just maybe I'll take a walk, I'll go outside or I'll just do something like that. Yeah, I agree. It's funny that you do that too.

Mikas (01:22:00.763)

But the juice has to flow. So whichever way you get it flowing, you just cannot focus for so long on to music. As far as I know, it could be accounting, it could be video creation. That's it. You need this.

Brian Funk (01:22:15.15)

Yeah.

Mikas (01:22:29.643)

so you're...

Brian Funk (01:22:30.319)

Yeah, anything where you're stationary for too long. This desk I'm sitting at does, it's a standing desk, so you can make it go up and down. And I, lately, almost every time I'm making music, it's standing and...

Mikas (01:22:36.043)

so you're advanced then in your thing because I wanted that but I'm like, I don't know, I'm just so used to sit.

Brian Funk (01:22:52.303)

Yeah, I sit a lot for, you know, if I want to be in the right listening space for the speakers, it's, I got to be sitting, but in the creation process, usually, it's cause I also think it's a good test of if what I'm doing works, if it feels good. Cause my body moves and you know, like you start kind of dancing a little bit. whereas I'm sitting here, it's not really.

Mikas (01:23:02.699)

right, right.

Brian Funk (01:23:21.775)

You know, I could do this a little bit, but it's not the same as like when you're on your feet. And sometimes I almost need to feel that to know if my track has a groove or if it's too stiff. And I can notice sometimes like subtle changes make me go, yeah, now I can move a little. That tambourine really just pulls me in or that tambourine was taking me out. So as soon as I delete it, like little things like that, that are.

Mikas (01:23:24.875)

Yep, absolutely.

Mikas (01:23:38.251)

No.

Nice.

Mikas (01:23:45.615)

Great.

Amazing! This was like an absolutely epic conversation once again.

Brian Funk (01:23:52.174)

Less with the brain and more with the body.

Brian Funk (01:23:59.022)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:24:04.079)

Yeah, I'll say. So you're doing awesome work. I love the consistency. I love the way you also, the way you tie in the creation of the music to then also like the packs as well is really clever so that you're kind of doing more than one thing at once. And you're building the muscle of making music and probably learning like what needs to be in the templates as you're creating them. So it's a nice, honest,

Mikas (01:24:29.357)

So basically it's doing everything that I love at once. And also it's like completing the full triangle of being creative, building something for the site and, you know, be being consistent, you know, very consistent to always deliver. And the video is there with the templates, which I think it's a very valuable thing for anyone. So you see me create it.

Brian Funk (01:24:34.19)

process, you know, like you're using it, you're making it happen.

Mikas (01:24:52.844)

If you like it, the last Synths episode, I'm not sure, 265, we started doing the 3 DAWs, Ableton, Logic and FL Studio. So if you like the template, you want the sound, you want to do something with it, you can just get it and watch the tutorial over and over and over again on YouTube or just watch the tutorial. For me, it's not so much the monetization as it is the flow of outputting, outputting, outputting. And I'm becoming a lot better as a producer, of course, you know, because when you practice, you practice, you practice, you will, you're

bound to find new things and after after 345 episodes of the podcast which I'm gonna pitch I think I'm not even searchable I think I tried to search for it and I couldn't even find it if you do live electronic music tutorials

So that's it and there's 345 episodes right now. And now I'm taking a little break because I'm doing piano lessons and I'm doing more theories and I'm about to go back into it but I need a breather to... I'm gonna make it a little bit more YouTube algorithm friendly sadly. Not so much but at least a little bit.

Mikas (01:26:07.692)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:26:10.894)

You know, I used to really think that was a bad thing, you know, until I read a book called the YouTube formula and it's all about like, you know, how to succeed at YouTube. And it really made the point of like, so the goal of the algorithm is to get people to stay on YouTube. Really? That's the point. Like, cause that's how they make money. Right? So, I mean, that should be.

Mikas (01:26:12.924)

yeah?

Mikas (01:26:26.156)

Of course. Yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:26:39.886)

kind of obvious, I guess, when you think about it. So what it's really kind of a way of thinking it is you're making the best thing for the person watching so that they'll want to keep watching it. And anything you can do in that, with that goal in mind, it does happen to also serve the algorithm, but it serves your audience too. You're thinking about your audience and how to help them and how to present it to them in an interesting way that keeps them.

Mikas (01:26:40.621)

Mm -hmm.

Mikas (01:26:53.965)

Well, of course...

Brian Funk (01:27:09.102)

engaged. I mean you can definitely try to abuse it and then you get like clickbaity stuff and all of that but I think when you're you kind of get that honest way of looking at it then it's it's not such a bad thing. I think you can do it very there's a lot of youtubers that do it in a very tasteful way and

Mikas (01:27:19.214)

I think I will watch.

Mikas (01:27:24.11)

I did watch a guy that's doing apple stuff, pretty much only apple stuff and a big apple guy. I think it's FPC or something like that. But the video and the cinematography, I just cannot stop watching it. Literally. It's so good and so intentional. It's a nice story. It is unfolding. And this is art. We talk about art earlier. This is a form of art to be able to put a story together and to get people to watch it till the end, not...

Not because it's a trick, because it really is great. It's not about tricking people, I think it's never been about tricking people, you know. I've seen, there's a lot of people that do things on the internet and they trick people to go on the site and to buy.

Brian Funk (01:28:06.606)

Right.

Mikas (01:28:08.685)

and then they kind of trick your psychology into buying something that you don't really want. So me, I'm about selling something they need, not that they want, because wanting things is fine. I want to buy a lot of shoes. I'm a shoe collector, you know, right? Good. But do I need those shoes?

Brian Funk (01:28:12.494)

No.

Mikas (01:28:26.7)

So I have to put a barrier in between my wanting to have all those cool shoes, because I like shoes a lot, and needing some different shoes for different occasions. For running, I run a lot. I have plenty of running shoes.

eight pairs. I don't need those, but I had moments where I was like, I want these or this or that, click, click, click, bye. So they got me. They really got me. So I could have stick with those three pairs and I'd be fine. But it's good to be honest into your craft. If you want to give stuff to people, if you want to people to just to drop your emails, if you want somebody to drop you his email, you have to be intentional. You have to give something to the

Brian Funk (01:29:00.334)

Right. Yeah.

Mikas (01:29:13.535)

person that is real, you know, you don't want to lie to people, you know, you want to really give value to the people. So that's it.

Brian Funk (01:29:14.254)

Right.

Mikas (01:29:28.62)

That's...

Brian Funk (01:29:33.902)

Yeah, you don't want people having the buyer's remorse. Like, okay, great, you sold them one thing and now they feel bad about it. They'll never come back. It's much more about, like you said, being honest and real and engaging and thoughtful. And that's really what gets rewarded, but it's more of a long game. You know, you might be able to come up with some scheme to get people to buy your stuff suddenly real fast, but...

Mikas (01:29:34.348)

This is this.

Mikas (01:29:57.1)

So this is for me because I run a website for 12 years and I run a record label too for another...

Brian Funk (01:30:02.638)

They're going to see through that, and then they're not going to come back.

Mikas (01:30:04.748)

I think 18 now. And you know, this is for me advertising. You know, when you put a lot of money in advertising, you get a whole lot of customers. So every time I've done ads, I got unsatisfied customers, like a lot of those, like really problems over problems. So the time consumed, one, the money spent to get the people in, two, the time consumed to satisfy those customers or literally to refund them because they were very unsatisfied. Does it really worth it? Is it really a game that,

that you want to play, I would be cautious for people that are doing...

No, selling digital assets and stuff and even I've seen this trend of promoting Spotify links. I'm like, you're going to pay 10 cents. Everybody, every time or it was up to a dollar every time somebody clicked to listen to your music and you're going to make a hundredth of a cent on a Spotify stream. Does that make sense? What is it that you're doing there? So I was a bit shocked when, when the record label were recommending artists to buy ads, to drive links to the Spotify profile. And I was like,

like how is it tangible? And I get into a conversation on Facebook in a group and I did the calculation and I put it down and people were like, really? Okay, so you spend a hundred bucks, you get average 77 cents per link click and what do you get back? Not even a dollar over your hundred dollar investment. Like, but you might get fans. Not really, because it's a nod. You get a fan when somebody discovers you through a radio, through a friend, you get fans.

when people have like kind of a surprise moment you know discovery discovery is the music is all about discovery and when people discover something new discover my side discover your side discover what you do they're like wow this is great I discovered it myself so the world is really for them you know if they click on an ad it does not have like the same tangible kind of like feeling you know for people so I surely believe so at least

Brian Funk (01:32:17.71)

Hmm.

Yeah, I think we respond to honesty and authenticity and probably more and more and more as time goes on and there's more dishonesty going on. And I think that's the best thing to shoot for, you know, just to be real, keep it real.

Mikas (01:32:23.722)

Well, yes.

Mikas (01:32:34.09)

Keep it real, like Aligii. It's a while ago, but keep it real. It was a deep message, but nobody really understood it. People, they don't get those satire kind of thing, but really there's depth to it. But people are like, no, that's just a joke. No, it's not a joke. You should really, you should hold on to it. I find out humorists sometimes present a better...

Brian Funk (01:32:46.414)

Yeah.

Yep.

Brian Funk (01:32:55.15)

yep.

Mikas (01:33:03.466)

reality in a good format like for people to think about things, then the news themselves or some people that relay information.

Brian Funk (01:33:07.982)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:33:13.294)

Sure. Yeah.

Mikas (01:33:16.138)

Yeah, exactly.

Brian Funk (01:33:23.982)

Yeah, sometimes a little exaggeration shows you what you're really doing.

It's cool, man. I'm very happy for you and your success and the company's doing great and you're working so hard with the YouTube and the podcast. Being a father, congratulations for that. It's been awesome to catch up with you again.

Mikas (01:33:36.778)

Thank you very much, man. I'm really grateful to have a moment with you and I am looking forward to listen to this clip because it was quite, to me at least, it felt quite epic. You know, the topics we touched are important. You know, it's really from the heart to me, you know, to try to help people understand.

the perspective of what we do and give a little bit of our experience to them. And if they listen to the whole conversation, invite anyone to get in touch with you or to get in touch with me if they have any questions, because it's important. If you have something to say or if you have a question or something, get in touch with me, go on my site, send an email, I will get it. So it's good to communicate. And like we said, if you open the door, if you do take action, something will happen. So invite everybody to take action.

Brian Funk (01:33:58.19)

Yeah.

Mikas (01:34:27.498)

That's it.

There you go.

Brian Funk (01:34:36.682)

I agree. And they can go to wemakedancemusic .com to find you, right? And I'll put that in the show notes, the YouTube as well, I think it's the same, right? At We Make Dance Music Studios, actually, that's the studios at the end.

Mikas (01:34:37.737)

Yep.

The YouTube channel? I really don't know. That's a good question.

Mikas (01:34:50.825)

awesome.

Mikas (01:34:56.137)

Awesome.

Brian Funk (01:34:56.686)

It looks like it does, but I'll make sure that link is proper for everybody. Instagram as well. So there'll be some stuff people can click on in the show notes. And I want to say thank you very much for coming back.

Mikas (01:34:59.434)

Thank you very much man, I will see you in another 10 years here. If we all still able.

Mikas (01:35:12.073)

Cheers, bye.

podcastBrian Funkmusic production podcast, mikas, we make dance music