Six Missing – Flow States, Ego Drops, and the Art of Letting Go - Music Production Podcast #402
Today I welcome back TJ Dumser, who makes ambient meditative soundscapes under the name Six Missing. TJ is in the process of releasing his new album Without Mind in 3 sections. We spoke shortly after the first section Identify was released.
TJ and I picked up where we left off, discussing his work and the vision he has for this album. Things pretty quickly got philosophical and introspective. We shared techniques for dealing with self-doubt and the inner critic. We also explored where we stand as artists in the face of Artificial Intelligence and constantly expanding technology.
Listen on Apple, Spotify, YouTube
Takeaways:
Trilogy Structure for Deeper Listening – TJ’s Without Mind album is being released in three parts to encourage intentional listening and build a larger sonic narrative.
Music Beyond the Background – Unlike passive ambient music, Without Mind is designed to hold your attention and reshape your experience in the moment.
Revisiting Old Work with Fresh Ears – After sitting unreleased for years, the project regained personal relevance when revisited in a new headspace and physical space.
Letting Go of Listener Expectations – TJ challenges the idea that ambient music has to be “nice and polite,” embracing sudden changes, rhythm, and experimentation.
Meditation as Creative Foundation – The concept of Without Mind stems from mindfulness: the ability to step back from thoughts and ego to access true presence.
Fighting the Algorithm with Art – Releasing in parts is not only practical for listeners, but also a way to subvert algorithm-driven consumption and reclaim artistic delivery.
Creative Identity Isn’t Fixed – Making something outside your norm is a valid and necessary part of your evolution as an artist.
Protect Your Flow State – Comparing distractions to carrying a hammer around all day, TJ emphasizes the need to carve out nonjudgmental, focused space to create.
From Critic to Collaborator – Brian and TJ reflect on treating the inner critic not as a judge, but as a collaborator—someone to notice, not obey.
Art as a Portal to Awareness – Both hosts agree: making music is not just about the product—it’s about attention, presence, joy, and being human.
Links:
Six Missing - https://www.sixmissing.com
Six Missing Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sixmissing
Without Mind by Six Missing - https://www.sixmissing.com/sounds/without-mind
TJ's First Appearance on this Podcast - https://brianfunk.com/blog/tj-dumser
Brian Funk Website - https://brianfunk.com
Music Production Club - https://brianfunk.com/mpc
5-Minute Music Producer - https://brianfunk.com/book
Intro Music Made with 16-Bit Ableton Live Pack - https://brianfunk.com/blog/16-bit
Music Production Podcast - https://brianfunk.com/podcast
Save 25% on Ableton Live Packs at my store with the code: PODCAST - https://brianfunk.com/store
This episode was edited by Animus Invidious of PerforModule - https://performodule.com/
Thank you for listening.
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Episode Transcript:
Brian Funk (00:01.157)
So TJ, welcome back. I've been listening to the first portion of your new record that's coming out. Well, the first portion is out. It's called Identify. It's from Without Mind. And there's going to be three other portions. It's an interesting release, the way you're doing it.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (00:16.13)
Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (00:21.11)
Yeah, well, I'm a sucker for trilogies. So like I grew up watching Back to the Future. I loved all three parts. Indiana Jones when I was, yeah. When Star Wars was a trilogy, when Indiana Jones was a trilogy. Yeah, you know, all the big ones, the Spielberg hits. But also, yeah, it's kind of, it's a longer, it's a different, it's a different listen.
Brian Funk (00:31.685)
when Star Wars was a trilogy.
Brian Funk (00:37.486)
Alright.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (00:49.836)
than I think some of the other stuff that I've put out. And I wanted to make sure that A, nobody went insane listening to two hours worth of experimental electronic ambient music all in one sitting, which I'm sure my dad will do when it comes out. So that'll be very sweet to get his email. But we wanted to give every little bit its own chance to breathe and to...
kind of be, you know, not background music. I didn't want somebody to put on the record and then just kind of like go about it and passively listen to it. I think in the past, I've kind of like taken that approach with some of my music. And I think it's been more or less out of like a defense mechanism for me to like not want to ask too much of people to like sit and pay attention to it. But then I realized
Like that's kind of silly. My true hope is that somebody actually does sit and listen to it and spend time with it and can get something out of it. But with ambient music or any music in general, like of course letting it enhance your day, letting it provide context to your experience and to just kind of accompany you is also a benefit from it as well. But I thought it would be kind of.
fun to break it up so that people could sit and listen to it in more manageable chunks and see how it builds the bigger picture altogether. But yeah, it's also everything's an experiment. So we're going to see how this one goes. if people find it too confusing that it's coming out in three bits that ultimately build to one, or if people find it more enjoyable that way, I don't know. We shall see.
Brian Funk (02:47.041)
I think people will grasp the idea. think that a lot of artists are releasing their songs like one by one when the album is coming out. You're seeing that a lot. I know like on my Apple Music when a new album is coming out like three tracks will be available and then when the release date shows up then they all become available. So this is just maybe more like sections and stages of the record.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (03:02.776)
Mm-hmm.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (03:14.466)
Yeah, totally. And thinking about it from kind of like as we have to these days as artists to figure out, you know, not gaming the system or the algorithm, but trying to figure out how to best leverage that to our benefit, which is like the side of releasing music and creating music that I never really wanted to have to think about, but
It is a necessary thing that we kind of all have to think about is the strategy behind it. You don't want to just have this record that you've spent a year, two years, six months, three years, 10 years, whatever, working on it just to kind of like, you know, Kevin from the office, spill it out like chili on the floor and just have it all just be done in one fell swoop. So it's, it's a learning experience for me too, is figuring out like,
the more thoughtful way to releasing music in the day and age where algorithmic power is the way that it is. It's just kind of an interesting new chapter for me to be in.
Brian Funk (04:34.277)
That's a good point. mean, you spend all that time making something and a lot of us are like that, where I don't want to promote, it feels like kind of gross or, you know, it's like anti-art almost in a lot of ways. It becomes now product and commodity, but it deserves it. I can't say I've ever really given it that kind of effort or that thought, you know, like you have. How long ago did you finish the music and then...
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (04:42.691)
Yeah.
Brian Funk (05:04.069)
were you starting to think about this approach to releasing?
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (05:08.726)
Yeah, that's a great question. This one has been done for a while. It's actually been done before we spoke the last time. So it's been done since 2022. There was a period during the pandemic where every single day, I'm still kind of like this, but every single day I was really writing, recording and finishing a track. So I had this kind of library's worth of just sound design and
Brian Funk (05:16.431)
I will.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (05:37.774)
explorations and experiments. And similar to some of the other records that I put out, it just sat on the shelf, the digital shelf on the hard drive for quite a while until I just started thinking about it again. And the moment I started thinking about it, I decided maybe I should give it another listen, give it another look with fresh ears and a fresh head. And to my surprise, it was kind of
feeling relevant to where I was at now with the project almost again. So like I'd kind of like come around full circle to this electronic experimental a little deeper in the listening experience than some of my other stuff. So the songs are longer too. They're like nine minutes versus the more playlist friendly two and a half to four minute tracks. And
I had been a little self-conscious about putting out music like that because it's different. But then I just really had to get out of my own way and say, well, who cares? It's a part of the process and it's a part of the journey. And I know that when I listen to a band or a composer or a musician kind of step out of the space that you know them for.
I personally love that because I can really just see where they're at and where they're at at that time. It doesn't matter if it's critically received well, who cares about that? Like it's fun for me to catalog a person's journey. And so I wanted to do the same thing too. So long answer to your question is it's came around after two years of kind of opening all of the Ableton sessions and diving back in with fresh head.
post-move, I'm in a new space now too, and kind of new energy injected into all of these. yeah, just like leaning into the energy that I was feeling, which was an invigorated energy, but also like a more chilled out, kind of like low-key vibe. And that's hopefully imprinted on the music in that way.
Brian Funk (08:01.357)
Yeah, I think so. It's cool how that kind of comes back to you. Something that you made a couple years ago, then you hear it again. And it's probably the closest thing we ever get to hearing our music for the first time is to sort of forget about it for a little while. And then that's the curse of our job, right? You don't get to have that experience. You know where the surprises are. You know where the little fun things that are going to happen are going to come up.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (08:16.908)
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (08:29.292)
Yeah, exactly. It's like learning how a magic trick is done. You can never see it the same way again. Yeah. The interesting thing about this record was that I started writing stuff two years ago because I got, a friend of mine had worked at this company that was doing ketamine assisted therapy sessions essentially. And they were looking for music for the
Brian Funk (08:35.418)
Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (08:58.488)
patience to use and guide them through the journey a little bit. And so I was trying to do stuff that was kind of, you know, out of the way. But in doing so, all of these tracks kind of became the outtakes to those experiments where I kind of dove in a little bit more or they got a little more intense or they weren't as like nice and polite as you would expect maybe ambient music to be.
That I think was kind of like the fun thing is when I took all of these like outtakes together and put them in a consolidated playlist and a package and listen back to it. was like, there's actually a through line here, which is kind of cool. And I'm excited for people to sit and listen to the whole thing and use it like on a walk or while writing or anything and just see like how it kind of enhances or changes.
your mood, your experience, the context in which you're kind of going about your day. It'll be interesting to see.
Brian Funk (10:04.101)
Yeah, I could hear that it's got a lot more happening as far as... It's still got a lot of the characteristic things of ambient music, long evolving things, but there's also some sudden changes, some... I would think more like rhythm even in a lot of the parts, arpeggiated things that kind of move a bit. I put it on for instance last night in preparing for this.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (10:25.294)
Hmm.
Brian Funk (10:34.245)
before bed, but while I was still awake. So just laying there and it was nice to just kind of pull me out of, you know, the world. Like they say you should before you go to sleep, you know, put the screens away and, you know, get rid of the light and all that. So it was nice in that it wasn't just something that was way more background. Like you were saying, like that just is meant to fade away. And sometimes it's nice when you want to just
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (10:38.783)
yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (10:46.007)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (11:03.747)
maybe fall asleep or something. But this still had enough to keep me paying attention.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (11:10.786)
Hmm. That's great to know. That's really great to hear too. And, yeah, it's kind of like an answer to, I don't know. was this, this past like year, I, there was that article that came out in Harper's Bazaar, think. And then the book that came out called mood machine by Liz Pelly. And there's just been so much and there's like articles coming out through billboard about noise art.
and ambient music and all of that with this writer, Kristen, who's a writer at Billboard. And it's, it got me thinking like about how ambient music is perceived and how I want to, what my relationship to that perception is and how I might want to kind of adjust with that.
I never want to be the artist that is just making sleepy time music for you to fall asleep. Like I have that stuff and I do that stuff, but I want to be able to like make music like a band used to, how I used to make in a band for people to like actually want to go and seek it out versus just have it come on a playlist by chance because they're in shuffle on a big thing, which is a really great way for just.
discovery to happen, but I definitely wanted to break out of that a little bit and start establishing myself more as, you know, a musician that you might go to a record store and look for their record, which is why I'm printing this on vinyl too. I wanted this to be like an actual experience for people. They could go to the store, see the art and be like, what the hell is this?
read the kind of cryptic messaging on it. The titles are kind of odd and out there and we're going to sell some of it will be custom packages with incense. So like, want the whole experience of listening to this to be engaged versus passive and background and shuffle playlist type of thing. So trying to really like, yeah, make a stance this time, I think.
Brian Funk (13:34.543)
So that makes me wonder even more about the title, Without Mind, which is interesting because, so you want a little more attention given to this, right? And the mind is a weird thing because, I mean, everything gets filtered through our mind, right? And a lot of times that's the reason we get distracted from things and that's...
Also the reason why we don't pay attention and why, and it's what we use to pay attention at the same time. So there's a lot of contradictions in it. And I guess we can never truly be without mind. I don't think, but I'm wondering how that comes into play in this whole theme you have.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (14:24.92)
Sure. That's a great question. I feel as though the mind is a tool, just like a hammer. But you don't walk around with a hammer all day long. You use the hammer when you need to fix something or to knock that nail in or to pull that nail out or straighten something. And then you put it away. And then it's there, ready for you the next time.
You need to use it, but you don't carry it around with you all the time. And I think that that's kind of the message and the point that I've gotten to through meditation, through stepping outside of the thinking mind and pulling back and zooming out and becoming kind of the, the awareness of being aware of my mind, which are like,
crazy inception kind of like two layers back of being like the context in which we are existing as humans rather than the content of it, which would be, you know, all of us have that kind of egoic main character point of view that we feel we're looking out of these windows and we're seated up here as like the tiny alien in Men in Black or something like that.
That's kind of what I'm trying to do through meditation is to step out of that tiny little green man in your head and be aware of your thoughts and realize that thoughts are just that, they're tools. They're there to help you get to places on time. They're there to help you communicate language, but they're not your identity and they're not you. And they just...
run like a stream of water. And I think what meditation has helped me do is realize that and kind of chill out a little bit about my human experience in a lot of ways. And so the record being named Without Mind is kind of just a reminder to even myself to like, step out, step back. Like, it's so funny how quickly we can forget.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (16:52.876)
that whole thing. You can glimpse this little hem of the dress and then completely forget about the knowledge and the knowing that you kind of have just experienced. And so I like to place reminders kind of all around me. So in the art and in the music, they're reminders for myself and to maybe people that...
participate in mindfulness practices, we'll get like the little winks of it. But yeah, obliterating your egoic mind and stepping out of that and learning how to live without mind just in this formless, timeless space is like all I'm ever trying to do. And ambient music has been a vehicle for me to get there. But it's a good point you bring up of
saying I want people to pay attention but with what I guess is really an interesting thought.
Brian Funk (17:56.163)
Yeah, because attention is so weird. You start paying attention to it. You start thinking about it like you're saying, we feel like we're in this little vehicle with the windows looking out to the world in our head, which is a thought. And that's just another thing we think. And it doesn't have to be the truth of it. And stepping, like you said, back and trying to just observe the thoughts that come up really out of nowhere, seemingly.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (17:59.383)
Mm.
Brian Funk (18:26.217)
I, I've found the same that realizing that has helped me understand that I don't have to identify with it. I don't have to just because I think it doesn't mean it's real. I can think of a lot of things that are not real. And how many times have you had situations with people where maybe you thought they were angry with you or they were rude or cold or something and they just weren't something else.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (18:37.774)
Mm-hmm.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (18:52.148)
as a socially anxious person existing in a world? Yes, all the time, actually. I pretty much feel that all the time, yeah.
Brian Funk (19:01.685)
It's just a story and it's just the thought we have that we've latched onto for whatever reason. It's helped me decide to choose the stories that benefit me and let go of the ones that don't because it's almost like there's no real story anyway is the way I kind of look at it.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (19:03.842)
Mm-hmm.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (19:19.586)
Right. That's really great. Yeah, that's really simple and powerful.
Brian Funk (19:27.373)
It's helped me a lot in my teaching with high school kids. Cause there are some, just some times where, and I'm kind of there right now. I don't know what to do with my students. AI has become such a huge part of how they do their work. And it's funny when you say AI to them, it's like this like naughty thing. Like it's almost like we were when we were kids about like smoking cigarettes or something, right? But.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (19:45.326)
Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (19:49.006)
Hmm.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (19:54.861)
Right.
Brian Funk (19:55.747)
They see it as that, it's this like cheating tool and I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate all that and within these like questions that come up, you start thinking like, how did I ever get trusted to do this? Who am I? Like what, I just went to class enough really. I kept going to college, right? And then eventually I got the piece of paper, but like, when are they gonna realize I'm just a phony, I'm fraud? And.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (20:10.286)
Ha!
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (20:14.904)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (20:24.419)
I've had those thoughts swirling in my brain and they just feed onto each other. And it was really like doing just like some meditation and hearing those thoughts of like, don't have to identify with it just because you think it. So to me, it's like, it's almost like watching a movie. I just take that movie out and like, we're not going to watch Brian's A Terrible Fake and everyone's about to realize it anymore.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (20:39.884)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Funk (20:51.833)
And we're going to put in this other one that's like, you figured this out before. You're going to try your best. And that's all you can do.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (20:56.931)
Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (21:00.748)
Wow. the fact that you're able, I have so many thoughts and simultaneously questions for you because you bring up some really interesting points. but just the fact that you're able to get yourself there, you're totally right. It's like, why are we as people and humans so ready, ready to accept the negative outcomes of things that are unreal?
in the future, why are we so, why do we accept those as fact and truth so easily and so quickly? Like even if everything that has happened to you in your life has been challenging, has been shit, has been hard, doesn't mean that it's going to continue to be that way. why, yeah, it's just, it is that fascinating question of the brain and the thinking mind of like, well, why can't we just
Accept that the positive outcome is going to come from this and see what happens then because your approach to what you're doing might completely change the outcome and it kind of is a self-fulfilling in that
Brian Funk (22:16.025)
Yeah, think it's safer, maybe. It's like our software was written back when the hardware was always in danger, right? where if that stuff's true, I could die. I'm not going to survive, right? Now, if that stuff's true, I might just be embarrassed or something like that. You know, I might have to deal with some shame or humiliation. But back.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (22:19.512)
Mmm.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (22:27.021)
Right.
Brian Funk (22:45.297)
Way back when, if that was what happened and you were ostracized from the group, the end for you. So it might just be our coding, you know, for lack of a better word, for whatever the way our brains are, which are identical to the cave men and women I'm thinking of right now. So I think anyway, that's my theory that it's probably helped us survive and
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (22:52.749)
That's just it.
Brian Funk (23:14.327)
Sometimes the things that go through our heads, and this is like for music too, like I don't want to be embarrassed because my song was terrible or I'm mixing my song and someone's gonna say, you totally messed up the sub bass and you're obviously an idiot. Like it doesn't matter too much in reality, but it still pushes those buttons of, you know, not being accepted. And that could be catastrophic to us.
going back to when we were programmed.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (23:43.582)
absolutely. Yeah. mean, belonging. We just want to belong. We want to be part of the group. Yeah. I mean, you said it so eloquently that I don't need to reiterate what you just said, but I mean, I'm so I'm fascinated to hear. I can't even imagine what it's like to be a kid these days. Going to school. Like what is that?
Like, because to me, everything seems like it's different. The world in which they live in is crazier and different and scarier in a lot of ways. But then also injecting AI and chat GPT that can write your paper for you and leave no trace. Like, yeah, what is, what is that like? And what is kind of like the landscape these days for someone?
like yourself that's interacting with them and needing to kind of teach and get their attention.
Brian Funk (24:50.789)
It's weird. It is weird. Just to give you an example of something that's weird to me, I teach ninth graders, 14, 15 year olds. I've had them, I've taught all the grades, I guess, but it used to be if, suppose for whatever reason the students get to the class before I do.
If they're sitting in there, it'd be nuts. Loud, crazy, talking, people trying to throw each other out the window. Like everything you can imagine, right? Now it's quiet. Everyone's on a phone. Everyone's isolated in their own little world. It's... I have to imagine like asking them to do assignments that they know they could just take a picture of and get the answers for or write a paper that...
you know, can just be written for them, has to seem meaningless. Or at least, like, why do we have to do this? Kind of like, maybe we felt with calculators as kids, like, what do need to know this for? I can just type it in, and then teachers would say, well, you won't have a calculator with you in your pocket every day. Well, now we do. Yeah. Although I can still see the value in being able to do, like, mental math.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (26:06.19)
And now we do.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (26:15.106)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (26:15.205)
And yeah, it's just, it's a much harder sell to get them to come along. Nothing is as exciting as the phone. it's, I think we've allowed kids to, too much of that and they're addicted really. A lot of us are, but they're young and impressionable and they don't know how to look away from the light.
how it's affecting them and they don't know anything different because it's all they've ever seen. So it can be a little weird and I'm worried for them, especially the current group because the whole AI thing is so fresh and new that most people aren't aware of what's going on. I'm continually surprised by how it's getting used and how it's, but I'm also like paying attention a little bit.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (26:45.304)
Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (26:50.776)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (27:14.369)
Not everyone is and to no fault of their own, but I just think this maybe chunk of years are going to be able to get through high school without ever having to learn some basic things that they're going to use every day, like writing, communicating and simple math and basic science that you just sort of need to know. I think they're going to get through without really having to learn that and then really be in trouble or have to really figure something out. So.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (27:30.371)
Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (27:40.482)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Funk (27:43.641)
But it's only going to get more and more powerful too, which means we're going to be further and further behind as teachers. And I don't know.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (27:52.034)
It'll be harder to fight it too, so to speak, I guess.
Brian Funk (27:56.599)
Yeah, and I don't know if we want to fight it either. I think it's incredibly powerful. I find it really useful. I've used it for some cool things. But not to like do the work for me, I guess, you know, that that's kind of the simplest form, but to maybe help me figure out new ways to think about doing the work.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (28:23.074)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (28:24.877)
or just sort through thoughts that I've had.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (28:28.734)
yeah, that's actually like a big one for me that I've seen a benefit for is kind of like an objective outlook or an objective opinion on a situation that is not emotional at all, feeding in kind of the context and the total, which I guess is colored through your own experience, but like trying to be as impartial as possible.
of just injecting into it kind of like, this is a situation, even just validating certain thoughts that you might have. Like, am I crazy? Like, does this seem wrong? Or does this person seem upset about this? You know, here's the interaction. Give me some thoughts on it, which even as I'm saying it just sounds, yeah, I don't know, a little crazy, but like it is.
Brian Funk (29:06.232)
you
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (29:24.782)
powerful in that way to empower you as the individual. But I don't know, as I'm saying it now, it's like I'm thrust back in my memory of like playing with my childhood best friend when I was a kid, like when we were six, eight years old, just out all day and just talking about things like that, you know, feel a little worried that kids
won't have that, that are growing up now, or they'll have to really kind of work to get that experience. I don't know. I don't know how I even feel about it. I'm kind of like working through it with you right now.
Brian Funk (30:11.299)
Yeah, I guess we all don't know. We don't know where it's going. We can see benefits. We can obviously see worries.
I guess like everything else, we've got to figure out how to be responsible with it and probably set good examples for younger generations too. I don't think we've done a good job with phones, for instance. We're on them all the time, distracted by them, we're looking into them and then we give them to kids to just, here you go, knock yourself out.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (30:37.474)
Right.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (30:46.484)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I get the sense that we're around the same age. And so I was talking to my wife. I like, remember when I got my first phone. I was much older and it was like, it was the Nokia brick type of thing, which like all you could really do was play snake on it. And
hall home to say, I'm going over to Ryan's house this afternoon. And like, that was it. So I know it's like, even for us, we now have, and I go back and forth on it all the time, multiple times a day. It's like, it is a gift and a curse to have the ability to have access to every piece of recorded music in the history of music.
in the poc, in my pocket, in the palm of my hand, have the answer to any question that I can think of to ask. I can FaceTime a family member anywhere in the world. You and I can have a conversation together in real time in two different parts of the country. So like it can't all just be black or white. Like it's just bad or it's just good. I think like you said, there has to be a responsibility.
to just, yeah, I don't know, like kinda regulate it a little bit maybe.
Brian Funk (32:21.593)
Yeah, and like, as I enjoy, like you, we like to say to make music, right? And we see the value in that. we probably both understand that even if there's an AI that can make music for us, which there are, it can't replace the joy of it, the excitement, the thrill, the pain, know, the dark sides of it that make the bright sides so nice.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (32:43.086)
Mmm.
Brian Funk (32:51.313)
but what happens when you've never seen that, you know, when you've never really had a chance to do that. And I think for me, like learning music was a really big part of my development because it was something I wasn't good at at all. I didn't know anything about music when I started playing it. Like literally, I didn't even understand I could play songs I heard on the radio on a guitar until I saw somebody do it.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (32:58.082)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (33:21.527)
And that was mind blowing. I think a lot of other things came a little bit easier to me. Like I kind of just did all right in school without trying too hard. And I was like athletic enough to play on sports teams without having to work too hard. But that was something I had to really struggle with and still do to this day all the time. And it's been really important.
in how I see things and how I see the world and how I understand that hard work matters. was probably the first time I really got to understand that to be true.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (33:58.166)
And also all of your experience, like you now, you bank all of these years of experience, all of these hundreds of sessions that you've made choices in to mute, to unmute, to move, to shift, to eighth note, quarter note, hi-hat like needs to be dipped here. Like all of these things that you have the life experience of help make you.
more you and also allow you to like express your own voice through your music more effectively and communicate it in that way. And I am in complete and total agreement with you. I don't know that why you would ever want to automate that joy in that way, why you'd ever want to take out that whole learning process. The whole journey is part of the fun.
But on the other side of the equation, how about a kid who doesn't know how to make music, who wants to desperately do it, doesn't have access to maybe the programs at school, have the ability to get themselves an instrument. Like now there are ways for people to do that on a phone screen or an iPad or a school given laptop.
So that is kind of cool. That's why this whole conversation is so tricky and interesting for me to actually even put a stake in one side of the fence for it, because I don't think it's possible to do at all. Because you could flip anything that I've said on the other side of the fence and it would make total sense. So yeah, I mean, I know personally, I have not delved into the world of AI-generated
AI generated music creation in any way. I feel like there was a part of me and at a point where I was like, I should probably learn this stuff. I should look at it. Otherwise I'm going to like fall behind whatever that means. But then I just realized like, nah, it's never going to be the thing that I want to do. Spend time learning that whole process too. Um, and I don't know from, so that's just my personal choice, but who am I to say like,
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (36:23.468)
The next great hit isn't going to be written by some AI software and like if people enjoy it, then why does it matter? Like, I guess, I don't know. Hmm. Interesting. To chunk any part of this out and put it on this Instagram, you can either put me on blast or I look very smart either way.
Brian Funk (36:41.189)
Yeah, well that's because it's such a weird and conflicted issue because I think it's great that access has never been easier, right? Like any kid that has an iPhone has GarageBand, which is more than the Beatles had in their pocket. But also the problem is there's
everything else in there too. And I don't know if when I was 14, I might have had access to like more tutorials, I could have learned how to play more songs, I could have looked up the tab to every song ever, but I don't know if I would have gotten past Instagram. I don't know if I would have gotten past anything else.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (37:25.752)
Right. There's too many bright, yeah, there's too many kind of like distractions along the way that derail you from, mean, even I'll be completely and totally honest. Like for me in the mornings, I'll wake up and I'll be on my phone and then I'll be like, wait, shit, I was doing something. Like why did it, why was I even on my phone? It's like this thing we have to constantly fight, but yeah, I agree. I guess the tutorial thing would have been cool. I mean, YouTube was starting.
around the time I started playing music, it was there, but like everything I learned was like by ear or by getting guitar world magazine and looking at the tab and then listening to it to the CD or the tape and like going back and forth and like hearing it in context. And I think like you said, like the, the pain of like messing up so many times that solo you wanted to learn and then finally getting it that that feeling I wouldn't replace.
at all for like a shortcut, I don't think. Like that just is too much of a win as a human. Like you've climbed that mountain and you've gotten to that point and now it feels really awesome. Now you know this thing and you kind of apply it to the next thing that you go on to learn and into your own music and all that. yeah. I remember they had made this
CD player that could slow down the CD. I don't know if you remember something like that, but you could play it at like half speed, but it also affected the pitch. So like it was completely useless as a tool, but I had it and I use that so many times to like learn an Angus solo or like a slash solo or something like that. But now like
Brian Funk (39:19.013)
Hmm
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (39:21.25)
Yeah, to be able to toss it into Pro Tools and use pitch and time and just like bring it down and slow it down without affecting the pitch. Like that's pretty cool technological advance there, I guess. Yeah. Double-edged sword technology, isn't it?
Brian Funk (39:31.653)
Hmm.
Brian Funk (39:36.951)
It is, I mean it still gets me. have like, you should see my Safari window, I've got at least a dozen tabs of various tutorials I want to watch at some point, or just videos of people talking about things. It's the same exact thing when I come to make music, they all pop out at me. So...
It distracts me in that way. It really is pulling me away. It's feeding me. It's giving me a lot to think about and a lot to learn, but it's almost impossible to fight the urge to want to learn something else or at least see something else. mean, I guess I know if I do that, I'll succeed. I'll finish the video. I'll watch it, but I don't know if I'm going to make anything good today. If I start writing music or start playing that's
That's the unknown. And sometimes it's just nice to do something and feel accomplished that you know you're going to be able to do. Because like learning those solos, like you kind of don't know if you can, you can't actually do it at the time, but you're like, you think maybe if I keep trying one day, but it's, it's still an unknown.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (40:44.716)
Right.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (40:51.278)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brian Funk (40:53.113)
But some of the instant gratification, the smaller dopamine hits we get from all this readily available information, it's hard to pass that up in the short term for the much longer term thing that might not even arrive.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (41:06.882)
Yeah. That's yeah, that's true. And I don't know if we talked about it. I can't remember if we talked about it the last time, but I can't tell you how many times I've done something like started working on something, figured something out that I was pleased with and felt kind of cool about. And we all have those moments in the studio. We're like, that's awesome. Okay, great.
And then you go to like kill a minute of time and you go on Instagram and you see somebody else do something and they have their video up and it looks so great. And the sound is awesome. And wow, they did this thing and my God, they have 50,000 followers. And then you come back to your thing. Yeah. Yeah. And they're, yeah, exactly. And they're a quarter of your age. And, and then you come back to your thing in the studio and you're like, I don't know. This wasn't as cool as I thought. Like.
Brian Funk (41:50.797)
and they're nine years old.
Brian Funk (41:57.23)
Right.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (42:05.934)
trash it or like walk away from it. And like, I guess, you know, that's kind of been, that's happened to me a lot where I'll log on and I'll open the app and then come back and be like, man, this is piddly compared to that. And I think that's why sometimes some of my projects, like they sit for awhile and then they age. And then I come back to them and go,
actually that was cool. Like, and I've been able to step away from that feeling that I had kind of that was judging it and you know, not to like loop it back to the title of this record without mine, but that that's like, that's sort of like the little note that I give to myself is like, just try not to like judge it. Don't, don't think about what you're doing. Don't think about what it's sounding like at first. Like,
come back with a different brain. Like just get all the paint on the canvas and then step back and look at it and be like, is there a picture here? Is there something that I can work with? Or was this just kind of like noodle soup where you just kind of got stuff out and maybe that's all you needed to do that day too. But yeah, I mean, my only piece of advice to even myself is like, just don't rob yourself of that joy.
by kind of like carve out that space for yourself, that safe space where you like lock up your phone or even get the app off your phone for a while while you're in that creative space because you need to protect it and, be yeah, nonjudgmental at first.
Brian Funk (43:52.879)
Yeah, you can't be critical in the early stages because it's not done developing. It's just getting started. mean, just like you wouldn't be critical of like a kid that's just picking up a guitar or just started Little League and, you're not as good as Mickey Mantle, so what are you doing? Like, you would never do that. That's how our ideas are. I like some of the artists, you know, the more ornery artists you see.
thinking of like maybe like Lou Reed or you know people that just like really don't care about what people that yeah like it's not my job to decide if it's good I make the stuff the people that don't make stuff can decide if it's good you know I'm too busy making stuff I wish I had a little bit more that harder edge that could be like I don't give a shit what anyone says like it's not even the point to me but of course it is
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (44:29.464)
Tom Waits. Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (44:36.119)
Mm-hmm.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (44:40.162)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (44:53.189)
But this is one of those things I guess I was talking about earlier where I'll try to adopt that thought process because it'll serve the goal of creating. That it's not up to me if it's good. It doesn't matter even. It's just, we're just making it.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (45:04.244)
Mm. Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (45:15.778)
Yeah. You're the conduit in which it's coming out in that way through your experience and your voice and your knowledge and your technical abilities, which I think is just so cool that there is so much of it out there in that way. And that's why I love, I love doing remixes and reworks with people because I get to hear how other people's brains work, which is just so fun for me because like we work mostly.
solo, right? And unless you're in a band or a group setting in that way. So getting kind of like to a little insight into somebody's creative process is just so fun for me. And that's why I like doing those so much is because I also like, um, you know, selfishly.
Brian Funk (46:07.269)
We might have to use that airplane sound as a sample.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (46:10.36)
Did you hear that? Wow, that was like a, that was a jet. wow. anyways, it's just my own selfishness that I like to tear apart something and tease apart something and hear the layers and like, it's like a chef that can like taste a soup and know where all the ingredients are in it. made three soup analogies now. That's really great. but yeah.
I don't know, I think looping it back around to just the human element of art and like you said, you can't be critical of it and it's not up to you to decide what this is. I think that's why I finally decided to just put this out, to put this record out. It's just like, let people take it in the way they're gonna take it in and some people will like it, some people will...
be indifferent about it and some people will hate it or never listen to it. And that's all good. And it's all valid because that's the great thing about art in general and music in general is like, there's just so much out there for people to consume at all times. So, yeah, I don't know. I just hope people dig into it and enjoy it though.
Brian Funk (47:31.695)
Well, you know, without mind is a nice way to create, actually. It's when the mind gets involved that I tend to run into issues. start wondering if my chord progression is complex enough, I'm impressive enough with my display of music theory or sound design or mixing or whatever I'm insecure about.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (47:52.568)
How do you deal with that though? How do you combat that when it comes up for you? Those thoughts and that stuff, is there anything that is tried and true for you?
Brian Funk (48:06.249)
probably combat is the wrong approach. cause if I start trying to combat it, then I start feeling down on myself on a whole like other dimension. Like, why, what's wrong with me? Like, why do I feel this? Why can't I just, so I, and I'm, look, it's, it's, this is not meant to sound like I have it figured out, but
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (48:21.43)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Funk (48:34.122)
I try to understand and recognize it has happened. And again, that whole like not identify with it. Just it's a thought just like I could think about a lizard wearing purple basketball shoes if I want to. yeah, there it is. It just happens. And sometimes it's useful, actually. Sometimes it is useful though here. that that's a little
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (48:49.614)
Wow, what an AI prompt that would be.
Brian Funk (49:03.653)
piercing that frequency, you know, or, I don't like the way that chord went to that one. Can be useful information, but it's not necessarily the truth. And I don't have to follow it, you know, maybe like that inner critic is more like a collaborator than a dictator.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (49:25.068)
Whoa, that is really good. That's really good. Your entire approach. Yeah.
Brian Funk (49:27.525)
But you have to catch it. That's the problem is you don't catch it most of the time. It just washes over you. It's the realizing it. That's when you have the power. If you can realize it's happening now. And it happens every time I try to create anything. It happens every time I have a conversation with somebody. It happens every time I don't merge over to the lane fest enough and wonder if the guy behind me thinks I'm like some idiot on the road.
It doesn't mean it's real or not and it doesn't have to be something that takes me over. But again, like you have to see it.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (50:08.994)
Yeah. And you're in, yeah, your entire approach is so mindful. Like really, like it's so, which is, which is funny to say it that way, but it, you are like bringing such like a meditative approach to creating. I think like you're talking about those little windows that get opened when you are able to identify it and to catch the thought and.
Brian Funk (50:09.807)
That's the hard part.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (50:37.176)
to see it as just what it is, which is just a thought that will evaporate and leave. The goal, I think, is to take those little gaps and turn them into windows and then windows into doors and doors into fields and just keep expanding that whole spaciousness, I think, is really where it comes down to because there is magic hiding in those moments of
awareness and breaking the identification with those thoughts or worrying about them or Yeah plate like just putting an anchor into them you you don't need to do that and Opening it up Just to be more spacious and to be freer. I think it's like really where the magic lies I mean so many things I'm sure for you too you go back and you listen to and
Like when you were tired or when you were up late or something like that, where you were really just not giving a shit about any of it. You're just trying stuff. And you catch these little moments in there where you're like, that doesn't even sound like me. That's like something completely and totally different and something else. And those are like the magical moments that why I feel the drive to just keep making music because
It's just such a fun journey to be able to do that.
Brian Funk (52:10.457)
Yeah, there surprises around every corner. And you're making something out of nothing. It's kind of a form of magic. Any form of creativity where something didn't exist and now it does is really cool. And it's a really delicate process. And yeah, like you want to know when to close those little windows or when to go through and you never know, really, I guess. So there's a lot of trust.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (52:19.342)
Hmm.
Brian Funk (52:40.239)
that goes into it. I can be, and this goes back to even what I saying with teaching, when I can just trust that it's gonna work out, I'm gonna do what I can to make this as good as I can, that's usually the best place for me to be mentally.
But it's it's mindful, but it's trying to be without mind, as you've said. You don't want to pay too much attention to it and connect too much with it. It's like those moments when we are all in the zone and we feel like time flew by and we don't know what happened. The flow state.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (53:18.424)
Exactly. That's like the number one piece of evidence that I have that time really doesn't exist. It's just because when you're doing something you don't want to do, an hour can feel like an entire day. And when you're doing something that you're really enjoying and you're not paying attention to the clock at all, you can look and be like, whoa, I only have five more minutes left to do this.
Yeah, how is that possible? Right? Like time didn't get faster or slower. Time just was what it was, but it's just how we have a relationship to it. And getting into those flow state mindsets and just finding the things that bring you joy are what I think we should all be doing more of these days because everything is just on fire all the time.
Like finding those moments of joy are what I'm trying to do these days.
Brian Funk (54:23.577)
Well, in a weird coincidence of time passing, we've kind of reached our limit for today. In the last 15 minutes, an hour went by, and we've gone to kind of like infinite places. But this is good example of when things fly like that, when things are just flowing. It's cool stuff happens, and I feel like that kind of happened conversationally too.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (54:30.05)
yes.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (54:51.894)
Yeah, and even since our last chat, mean, like you said at the beginning, it feels like a while ago, but simultaneously could have been last week. yeah, I really appreciate you having me back on and thanks so much for being open for the chat and also going into the deeper places about like even just where we come from as musicians to get us to the session.
Brian Funk (55:01.913)
Yeah.
Brian Funk (55:19.119)
Well, that's a reason why I'm really happy to talk to you because that comes across, you know, obviously in speaking with you, but in your content, Instagram and what you post out there, you're sharing your work and your process and some of the things you do, but you also get into some of this stuff too, this other dimension that goes with just the simple act of trying to make music. And I love that because I think it's a weird sort of portal into how everything works.
when you're making music and talking about it. Sometimes it feels like we're just using it as a metaphor for everything else. But yeah, really great to have you back.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (55:56.194)
Yes. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
Brian Funk (56:00.589)
So people can hear as of now at least the first part of the album. And when does the next section come out? I have it in June, okay.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (56:06.946)
Yes.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (56:10.83)
Comes out in June and then the final Bit will be the entire record which will be August 8th So if you're one of those people where you just want to cash the whole thing and binge watch it Like severance you could wait until August and do that. That's totally fine Or you can yeah participate in the journey in the chapters as we go and back to the future it
Brian Funk (56:24.879)
hehe
Brian Funk (56:35.875)
Yeah, that's cool. I think I recommend going along with the journey you're suggesting, this piece by piece. And plus it gives it a little more longevity and depth. Then you get to hear it again as a whole. I think that's a cool way. And that's as the artist, if you want to think of the release process as part of the creative act, why not go along with what you're offering us?
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (56:47.363)
Yeah.
TJ Dumser / Six Missing (57:03.276)
Yeah, thanks Brian, I appreciate it.
Brian Funk (57:06.495)
Cool. So thanks for coming out again. Sixmissing.com is kind of the hub and then there's links to Instagram. I'll put all the stuff inside the show notes. I'll put links to the parts of the album that are ready. I hope you guys listening check it out.