Snakes of Russia, Sound Design, and Process with Joseph Holiday - Music Production Podcast #341

Joseph Holiday makes music as Snakes of Russia. His new album, True Surrender, releases on Friday, October 13, 2023. Joseph also creates soundscapes for films and sound design work for Ableton and Spitfire Audio.

For Joseph’s second appearance on the Music Production Podcast, we discussed his workflow and process for his new album. Joseph spoke about traveling to Salem, MA to God City studio where he ran his synths and drum machines through guitar amps and PA loudspeakers. We talked about his favorite gear and plug-ins, as well as how he brings his music to the stage for live performances.

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Show Notes:

Thank you for listening. 

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And don’t forget to visit my site https://BrianFunk.com for music production tutorials, videos, and sound packs.

Brian Funk

Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:00.567)

We'll be in. All right, cool. Hello and welcome to the Music Production Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Funk, and this is the show about all things making music. And today I'm very happy to welcome back Joseph Holliday. He makes music as Snakes of Russia. He was on the show on episode 175 in June, 2020 during a most peculiar time.

Joseph (00:01.931)

Sounds good.

Brian Funk (00:26.795)

And since then, he's been doing so much cool work, making music, doing sound design work, videos, and he's got a new record coming out very appropriately on Friday the 13th, October 13th. And it's really great. It's kind of this end of the world dystopian synthesis, destruction stuff. Um, it's called true surrender. I got to listen to it today and I loved it. It's, you know, it's really cool and welcome to the show, Joseph. Good to see you again.

Joseph (00:55.498)

Hey, it's great to be back. Great to be back.

Brian Funk (00:58.378)

Yeah, nice to reconnect.

Joseph (00:59.902)

Absolutely, and I like you said it was three years, which is I don't know where those years went but there they went

Brian Funk (01:03.962)

Mm.

Well, thinking about that, it was June 2020. It almost makes sense to hear a very dystopian album from you. And what I like about your kind of dystopia is, you know, it's very synth heavy, modular synth heavy, but it's not also like the sci-fi throwback of the 80s. It's very forward thinking. It's very modern, you know? And I love that kind of stuff too, but it sounds fresh and new and there's just tones and textures that, um.

Joseph (01:09.492)

Mm-hmm.

Joseph (01:12.728)

Yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:34.779)

I don't really know that I've heard in too many other places before, so it sounds incredible. Congratulations on a great job.

Joseph (01:38.274)

Thanks, man. That means a lot. There is a very conscious decision, though, to make stuff that I don't want it to feel retro, maybe a little bit nostalgic, but not coming from a certain place in time. So there's a little bit of an effort to do that, to not pinpoint it to a certain. You know?

influenced by certain decade type of music. It's kind of a conscious decision to make it feel like nostalgic enough that you feel like you've heard it before somewhere, but doesn't hark back to the 80s or 90s too specifically.

Brian Funk (02:23.411)

Yeah, it's not relying on some of the stereotypical sounds or techniques at the time, but it's, you know, you've got such great distortion on the record. It's like the thing that really struck me upon first listening was just these distortions and tones you're getting are just really cool and they almost sound like they're tearing out of the speakers when you listen.

Joseph (02:30.249)

Right.

Joseph (02:35.644)

Oh, oh.

Joseph (02:51.07)

Thanks, man. I mean, yeah, I lean really heavily on saturation, actually, like, you know, soft clipping and tape saturation and driving tape hard and driving compressors hard and stuff. But yeah, I realize it's kind of a really big part of what I'm doing is the distortion or, you know, the...

saturation and that whole element of it because we can get it from a few different places. I mean, this time around I experimented with doing a lot of reamping of my synths through guitar amps and speakers and stuff. And capturing the room, so that adds a lot there too. And then just different distortion techniques. I've gotten a lot of new gear since my last set of recordings. So

Yeah, I just got to kind of flex with all that on this recording, definitely. But I love saturation in just as a, to impart its character on the recording, as just like a piece of the recording really, you know.

Brian Funk (03:56.735)

Yeah, I'm the same way. I like things a little dirty and messy, even if it's a really, you know, if it's not an aggressive sound, just I find like character and kind of personality.

Joseph (04:05.79)

Right. Gives it, that's it, that's the magic word. It gives it such character that, you know, yeah, that's exactly what I love about it too, which is the character, you know? I mean, I never wanna make music that just sounds perfect, you know? I love all the, the slight flaws and imperfections in music and the wabi-sabi, I think that's the term, the Japanese term.

Brian Funk (04:30.444)

Mm.

Joseph (04:31.942)

I love that. That's the music I want to make and the productions I want to make. So yeah, I'm glad to hear that comes across. That's really great. Yeah.

Brian Funk (04:40.831)

Yeah, definitely. I love that concept too. The kind of just letting things be as they are not trying to polish away any imperfections and to keep it pure. Which I think is a challenge when you're doing electronic music, synthesized and um, sequenced stuff, you know, to, to keep like feel and that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Joseph (04:49.475)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly.

Joseph (05:00.498)

Yeah, I mean, a human element to it, yeah, for sure. I mean, there's a lot of things I do to retain that, and like moving stuff around a grid and sometimes not putting stuff on the grid or detuning synths and other things and string parts.

A lot of stuff and it's all intentional. It's all intentional to make it not sit perfectly. You know, there's so much great music in the world that is just absolutely flawless. And, you know, so I'm not trying to make that. I'm trying to make something that just has a bit of character to it.

But there's a lot of things and techniques that I do that kind of try to reinforce that human element. And a lot of it is just really playing stuff into Ableton Live. And again, this time I experimented a lot with synths in a room. What would this sound like if it were mic'd from across the room?

Brian Funk (06:03.019)

Hmm.

Joseph (06:16.156)

and overdriven and speakers pushing air and stuff. So a lot of that just is gonna create that imperfection. And that's really what I was going for.

Brian Funk (06:27.455)

Hmm. Nice. So do you mind just taking us through a little bit about how you go about making like a Snakes of Russia track? Is it, you know, because you're not you're not Dauless, but I know you rely heavily on like hardware and modular stuff.

Joseph (06:36.496)

Yeah, man, I...

Joseph (06:42.51)

Yeah, so there's a great deal of hardware in my process. But it's usually all the same thing where I'll spend the morning walking and kind of maybe listening to music or listening to an audio book and like really clear the palate. Then I'll come in here and I'll just open up Ableton and kind of just get some ideas going, just the same as the last time we talked.

Just the deli.

the daily exercise of just make of making stuff, of doing the thing, you know, just putting in the work and just, and just, but to me it's exciting. Like I love it. Like I'm never, I, I still, thankfully I'm never short of ideas. Like there's always like an idea or maybe I heard a song on the way in that, that really inspires me to go a certain route, but yeah, I'll just fire it up and just get an idea out, whether that be a riff, a baseline, a drum beat. And then I'll kind of like, um, build that out.

a little bit and then maybe I'll turn on a hardware synth and I'll do some quick sound design and just get it in and get it and record it as fast as possible. That's one thing that I really like to do. I get stuff committed. I don't like having stuff that exists as MIDI and as, you know, as.

I like to get stuff to bounce quickly to audio. A lot of that is because I use so much hardware that I have a piece of hardware called the Overstair Modular Channel, which is incredible. It's right in front of me. It's like my favorite thing in this room. And obviously I can only use it on one stereo source at the same time. So I have to bounce stuff constantly in the sound design process. But even like bringing stuff through tape or using the OB-6 or the Model D, it's just like, I need to commit those things.

Joseph (08:39.108)

even with software-based synths, I tend to commit stuff really fast and get it down and audio. There's a few reasons for that. One is just a lot of it's hardware and I need to some modular and that's only, it's very temporary. So I like to get it in as audio as quickly as possible. Another reason was, I just upgraded my system not that long ago,

Joseph (09:08.728)

an older computer and I had to commit stuff because I was I had so many instances of certain plugins running a lot of contact stuff and it was just like demolishing my CPU so I so it was kind of a practice in

Brian Funk (09:11.952)

Yeah.

Joseph (09:25.27)

In just kind of out of necessity like I needed to if I wanted to not you know be lagging So I remember when a buddy of mine he upgraded to the Mac studio Which is what I ended up using and you know he would just like flex and say I can have it 84 tracks of Melodyne open and you know and I'm like, I don't I don't know why I would want that many open you know, but it's just it's just it's kind of it kind of comes from like you know when you first

Brian Funk (09:49.4)

Yeah.

Joseph (09:53.918)

you know, when you first are coming up, you're kind of like, it's all about your limitations. So I think that it could still be all about our limitations. So I, even now having the processing power and the Mac Studio, I still, I still bounce stuff and commit stuff and freeze stuff. And I'm always like conscious of my processing power, conserve resources, you know, and that could be a metaphor for.

Brian Funk (09:59.84)

Hmm.

Joseph (10:20.526)

you know, our creative life too, you can serve your resources. Like you just get in here, do the thing and really focus. And but anyway, I'm going off on tangent here. But that's the process. I just come in here and work on getting the ideas out as soon as I can and printing them. And then what I did this time around for this record is.

Brian Funk (10:22.699)

Yeah, right.

Joseph (10:45.142)

Is that as I came in for I mean I was I was sketching for a long time and but when I when I Made a conscious effort to like okay. I got to start getting these songs together and start putting them into you know a record a cohesive batch of songs I gave myself like a month of Just

Every day I would just start with something brand new. And when I, you know, at the end of my day, I would save it and archive it. But then I'd come in the next day fresh, just something completely brand new. So I wouldn't be revisiting stuff. And then at the end of the month, you know, I had a really good batch of stuff and combined with...

Brian Funk (11:19.631)

Hmm.

Joseph (11:26.966)

combine those recordings with the recordings over a year of just these ideas and to stress, they're just ideas, they're just riffs or sound design bits or just a beat or a verse and a chorus. So then to take those and then kind of start refining them and getting.

starting off with, I don't know, 50, and then listening and going on walks and kind of deciding, okay, this is cool, this is cool, let me work on this. And then just refining them more, and then making, starting to get a structure together.

And then eventually just starting stacking layers and more sound design and getting really surgical with the edits is probably like the last little step and then ultimately mixing and then mastering. I mean, for the record, for this record, I did things a little bit differently. I don't know if you wanna talk about that, but I did things a little differently in terms of the production process. I, you know, we can certainly explore that.

if you want.

Brian Funk (12:34.835)

Yeah, let me pick apart a few of those things you said, because a lot of great points I think you made and a lot of interesting workflows. When you first start sketching things out, are you using like certain soft synths or something just to get melodies and ideas and riffs together before you're sending them to your hardware?

Joseph (12:37.911)

Yeah.

Mmm. Yeah.

Joseph (12:57.465)

Yeah, it depends. Sometimes those ideas will be hardware specific. You know, I...

I probably the newest synth in this room is probably the OB6. So there was like a good couple of weeks where I just that was always on and I had made a bunch of my own presets. And now that was just what I what I reached for that, you know, like that was that was the thing. But usually I have if it's like super fast, the first thing it's usually serum. You know, I just I just kind of pull it up really fast and go for it.

Brian Funk (13:24.427)

Yeah.

Joseph (13:37.345)

there was kind of an idea to make this record when I when I when it was developing that I wanted a certain type of sound you know that kind of cut like a guitar

So the OB6 was really helpful in that as a poly synth to help me kind of achieve that. So I made about four or five different patches. That would always be my starting point for the day when I was trying to write those kind of songs. That was pretty deep into like...

the concentrating writing process for the record. But yeah, I went and I designed a few of these really cool patches and that was my jumping off point. But if it's just an idea.

It's usually, you know, I'll just grab serum, you know, just go up a base and serum just to get something out. Or it could be very specific to, you know, maybe the night before I was, I got a new sample library or a plugin and I just kind of, you know, starred or I wish, I wish, I wish Kontakt had a better way of making favorites, you know, like of your favorite presets. So my way around that is actually like, I'll make it within an instrument rack.

Brian Funk (14:50.113)

Yeah.

Joseph (14:56.164)

So like if there's a if there's like a contact instrument that I really dig, but it's kind of deep within a library, I'll save that as an instrument rack and then name that. So it's kind of like my own way of making my favorite presets. So as an aside, like I did that for this record, I made like a palette, you know, of those instrument rack as my favorite presets. So yeah, so it's usually was from that, or we talked about in our last podcast about

Brian Funk (15:18.711)

Hmm.

Joseph (15:25.904)

to jump off from. So those techniques have not changed. That's still the way that I like to approach it. You know, there's always usually an idea or like a spark or something. It's never, I'm never sitting down to be like, you know, like pulling something out of thin air. It's usually kind of like a riff or a sound or something I heard or another track, or I'm like, that's such a cool idea. Let me explore something like that. There's always, you know, I'm only the sum of all my influences really. So it's kind of like just

Brian Funk (15:32.319)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (15:54.078)

Hmm.

Joseph (15:56.38)

listening to and consuming, you know, so much music and film too and books and stuff and you know just it's always the inspiration is always there so it's just kind of following out through a little bit. Yeah.

Brian Funk (16:10.387)

Right. I love that approach. The kind of just having some stuff. Cause it sounded like you were really separating a bit from the writing, from the sound design a little. So by having that palette, I guess you, you can do that. You can just jump to your sounds and start writing.

Joseph (16:25.386)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I did. It's always there. There's always such like it's always such a there's never like a clearly defined like this is the writing stage and this is the sound design stage. There is there is, I will say about my about how I work. There's definitely a mixing stage, like there's definitely a stage where even though I'm kind of mixing as I go along, I do like to kind of.

take when I'm finished and I feel like I can start mixing this thing, I do like to take a week off and not listen to a single note of it and then kind of go in back into everything muted and

Brian Funk (17:00.631)

Thanks for watching!

Joseph (17:06.826)

You know, I won't zero everything out. Like I'll just keep the work that I have, but I'll listen to everything. I'll mute everything and I'll bring everything up channel by channel. So the mixing process is its own thing, but the sound design and the writing are so intertwined. But with this record in particular, I definitely did a few like phases of sound design. Like there was those initial patches and then, you know, sometimes writing inspires a patch

There was the whole process of me going to another studio and recording some stuff there and then coming back and putting that together. So it was a very like a multi-level, you know, situation this time around. But yeah, those are never completely separate from one another. They're always intertwined.

Brian Funk (17:57.663)

Right. Yeah. And I think your, your idea of like taking the walk, listening to some music, just getting some fresh air, getting the blood flowing, you know, getting, um, I mean, it's sometimes it might sound funny, but a lot of times I'm doing like exercise it right, right over here in this little floor, just before I start, just cause I feel like I just work better when I'm moving and when I got some, some blood flow going, ideas come a little better.

Joseph (18:03.526)

Oh. Yeah.

Joseph (18:15.18)

Yeah.

Joseph (18:20.596)

Yeah.

Joseph (18:24.143)

100%, yeah, it's...

I've had a child since we talked last. So I had a, thank you. My son is now, he'll be two in a few weeks. So it's incredible how much that changed my day for the best. And I look back and I actually work less but get way more done. And it's, the time is hyper-focused. It's just, this is my, that's my time with him. This is my time to work. And this is, you know,

Brian Funk (18:31.735)

Congratulations.

Joseph (18:57.028)

my time to be back with him before he goes to sleep. And it's just, it's just, it's a testament to just making, you know, like the time spent away from making the music is.

just as important as the time spent making the music, I feel, in my opinion. And years and years I did not subscribe to that at all. I would just, you know, I mean even three years ago really, I mean when we talked last, you know, but there's really something about like now I know what the end of my day is. Like I'm just like, yep, that's cool. Like I did this, I did that, and then it's

Brian Funk (19:23.443)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (19:34.892)

Right.

Joseph (19:43.992)

on the walk and you know that and then decide yeah that's cool let me let me go and you know if i'm in the mixing stage it's like let me let me tweak these things and stuff and it's also just you know just getting out there and living a little bit you know it's uh we're all we're all of our studio tans are really dark but no it's um

Brian Funk (19:59.049)

Yeah.

Joseph (20:06.49)

Yeah, it changed my life for the best. And it's, I mean, I think I was focused before, but this is like a whole nother level of like, this is all the time I'm gonna get today. So I better use it really wisely. And it's helped tremendously.

Brian Funk (20:22.163)

I go through the same thing when I'm going back to work after summer vacation. Summer vacation, there's endless time. You feel like you can always put it off or you can either never stop. And it's when I go back to work that I get so much more disciplined because like you said, there's only so much time and it ends at a certain time is you have to go to bed, you have to be in a physical place from certain hours and it, it focuses me quite a lot.

Joseph (20:38.433)

Yeah.

Joseph (20:48.663)

Yeah.

Joseph (20:52.638)

Yeah, that's the word. That's the word discipline. It's just, it's the discipline. It's the same discipline as coming in here and doing it every day, just to work the muscle, you know? It's just like, just do the work, you know? But yeah, I love that. I mean, I try to teach, you know, everyone in my household. I try, I use that word a lot, discipline. It's just kind of.

It's just the way, you know, it kind of gets us to finish things and to, you know, to get stuff out into the world. Otherwise, you know, uh, you know, if, if you're making music just for yourself to listen to in, in that's not in your master plan, that's awesome too. But I still think there's a level of discipline in there to, you know,


So the 30 day thing that you do is very similar to the jamuary thing where we make a little bit of music every single day. And it's the same exact thing. Like you're so pressed for time because you're coming up with new things every day. You're trying to show up every day. You don't have time to go back and listen and evaluate and look at how far you've come. You just got to keep going. And by the end of that, you just have so many ideas to choose from.

Joseph (24:03.596)

Right.

Joseph (24:24.173)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (24:28.169)

You're you're so far ahead of where you were if you didn't do it

Joseph (24:31.51)

Right, exactly, yeah. It's like, yeah, just treat every day like January. Yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously there's gonna, you know, yeah, I know, I mean, you know.

Brian Funk (24:34.771)

I love that approach.

Brian Funk (24:38.735)

Yeah, that's tough though. Yeah. But that's a phase I see like you have, like you go through it for that 30 day situation.

Joseph (24:46.91)

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I mean, I mean, you know, there's, there's months and there's, and there's like, I've had a busy year with, you know, with music and.

that I make for my day job and sound design and stuff like that. So, you know, there's stretches of a few weeks where I don't get to make any, you know, snakes music and that's fine, you know, it's almost like, I welcome that. When I had mastered this record, I said that I wasn't gonna make, I was gonna not make any of music for this project

an undetermined amount of time. So obviously, but when I enter that mode and I go and I really wanna start writing and I'm absolutely, it's like the time is like soon because I'm absolutely getting an itch of, then I'll just go and transition to that, of like, all right, that's how my days start. Cause that to me then becomes the most important thing in my day is writing and getting ideas out. Over the last couple of months, that there was another gig that was the most important part of my day.

I think it's also great to have balance in that regard, you know, and I was, yeah, I had just finished this, you know, 12 song record and everything that came along with that. So I needed to kind of turn that part of my brain off for a little bit and not work on any music.

that was my own, you know, but there was tons of other things that falls under this umbrella that I was able to work on, fortunately, which was cool, you know, like sound design projects and stuff, you know.

Brian Funk (26:34.155)

Right. And then when you return to the snake stuff, you're going to be excited about it. You're going to be fresh and looking forward to it.

Joseph (26:38.41)

Yeah, exactly, man. That's a thing. Yeah, that's a thing. And it's like, and I think I also like to spend that time just kind of like harvesting ideas, you know, and, um.

Brian Funk (26:51.176)

Mm-hmm.

Joseph (26:52.826)

like again, I'll repeat that on the sum of my influences. So it's just like, it's just as important as it is to me to make music, it's important to me to like, just be out there consuming stuff and be inspired by things, you know? And yeah, exactly, exactly. And yeah, that's basically.

Brian Funk (27:10.803)

Yeah, the fertilizer, then the harvest. Yeah.

Joseph (27:19.082)

Basically the thing, I mean, I have a, like, it's also, I've been playing a lot of live shows recently, and that brings a whole nother level to, it informs my writing in a different way, because I want to make stuff that will translate and hit harder live, and so.

Brian Funk (27:34.657)

Hmm.

Joseph (27:40.914)

I welcome that. Like I welcome that as this new phase of, let's just say like, as I'm starting the next project or the next record or the next EP, I'm like, what that will be? And I will be, I'm sure it'll be influenced by the live show and the performance aspect of it, you know? So that's another thing too. It's like letting that kind of inform where the writing goes, you know? And...

I was doing some film music last year around this time, which informs this record. So it's kind of just letting myself be open to where it's going to go and also letting myself be open to where it might go. And you know, there's...

It's really funny. I talk a lot about deadlines and I think they're incredibly important. But it's just nuts sometimes. Like there was a few songs on this record where I had my deadline. You know, for every step of the way. There was a deadline.

to go to take these tracks somewhere else to work on and then a mastering deadline. And like, I remember before both of those deadlines, like within the week of that, I just, I wound up writing new tracks. And they were like, they're like, it's like they're two of my favorite tracks on the whole record. And it's so weird how that happens, where you're just like, I've been working on these songs for like so long. And then all of a sudden, and then in the 11th hour, I'll just, I'll write these two that just fit so well.

Brian Funk (28:55.96)

Wow.

Brian Funk (29:00.011)

Hmm.

Joseph (29:11.098)

So I never knew that was gonna happen. I couldn't call that the beginning of the process. So it's just weird. So I think letting yourself be open to swaying a certain way and just enjoying the process and kind of be disciplined and rigid to yourself and hit your deadlines, but be open to having things kind of ebb and flow.

Brian Funk (29:17.823)

Mm.

Brian Funk (29:41.088)

It's like a reasonable discipline you got going on. Not crazy strict, but.

Joseph (29:43.558)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, because it is, you know, we're talking about creativity here. It's like we're not talking about me doing 300 push ups, you know, so it's kind of like, you know, just by the nature of it, I think there needs to be some flexibility within, you know, within boundaries. Like I love to have boundaries, you know, with creative stuff because it does keep you in a.

Brian Funk (29:53.035)

Yeah.

Joseph (30:10.978)

It keeps things focused. It's just like, sure, I can add this track. Mastering is still Tuesday. So I just gotta hustle a little bit. But it's amazing how great some work could be if you only give yourself that amount of time. I think we've all heard that.

Brian Funk (30:20.151)

You're right.

Brian Funk (30:33.684)

Yeah.

Joseph (30:33.81)

Expression that if you if you're given four hours to do something that takes eight, it'll be better and There's some kind of truth to that, you know, you don't you don't flounder You don't you don't second-guess yourself You just finish and you do it and then at the end of the day if you if you something you don't want to put Out you don't have to so it's kind of you know, but maybe it's a good thing Maybe it's like, you know, we should all I guess it's like January, right? I mean you have you know, here's the day to make something and put it up and post it so

Brian Funk (30:59.167)

Mm-hmm.

Joseph (31:03.742)

Yeah, a lot of different ways we can approach it.

Brian Funk (31:05.951)

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, it's like you don't have the time to be judgmental and you're, you know, um, when you know you're going to master in two days, you don't have all the time to speak to what you're talking about with like keeping it organic and human and lifelike, not over-polishing it. You don't have time to do that. So you just focus on the things that you need to do to get it done.

Joseph (31:11.564)

Right.

Joseph (31:23.756)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (31:32.911)

I know I get lost a lot of times, sometimes when it's like time to make decisions on tracks, I start doing things like EQing little parts for an hour to avoid it. But when you're in those situations, there's just no time for that. We have to keep pushing this thing forward.

Joseph (31:38.528)

Yeah.

Joseph (31:45.237)

Yeah.

Joseph (31:51.906)

Yeah, yeah, it's the truth. I mean, finished is better than perfect, you know? It's just, it's about getting things done and in that 11th hour and making, I mean, don't get me wrong, like the last couple of days before a mastering deadline, like it's the most intense I'm working on a project. Like I...

make a lot of really small changes. And, you know, there's a lot of back and forth and listening in the car and listening in headphones and listening on the living room. And so, you know, the work is being, is definitely being, there's a lot of work being compacted into that small amount of time. But I think if I didn't have that end point, I would, I would do, we'd forever be opening the...

You know, be opening Ableton and just being like, I think, let me just cut a little bit of more 5k out, you know, like we would do that all the time, you know? Um, I was talking to a friend recently and I, and I, and I realized something that I do that, that it might be a good idea, I think, um, he was talking about when he listens to mixes and, um, he does it in the, in the DAW and in the studio.

Brian Funk (32:50.348)

here.

Joseph (33:16.018)

and then he's just tweaking kind of infinitely. Whereas for a while I've been, I just kind of bounce it and I do all my listening to that mix, like not sitting in front of the DAW. So, and it's critical listening, like I'll take notes and then I'll come back the next morning with fresh ears. And so it's a very like finite set of notes.

And because we all know that if we're sitting in and we're just constantly tweaking, it might be like we might hit the point of diminishing returns. So I like to minimize that part of the process to a very drawn out thing of I bounce it, I listen in the morning, come back with notes, fix those notes.

bounce it again, maybe don't listen to the next morning. Like it's just that perspective is everything to me. And again, it's not for everybody, but for me, that's the way I like to work. Instead of like, it's just having that space in between of my...

my revisions and stuff like that, it does wonders. And then of course that last day before mastering, it's like I'm compacted that into three hours as I listen back and forth and go in the car and back. So it just depends on part of the process, I guess.

Brian Funk (34:46.407)

I like to do that too. I love bouncing it and listening to it when I can't work on it. Because when you can work on it, you can always just kind of like do it without hearing the big picture. You kind of getting too far into the details sometimes and you need to step back and just hear it for what it is as a whole.

Joseph (34:53.802)

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Yep. Yeah.

Joseph (35:06.861)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (35:06.967)

And having the notes is great. And again, the perspective. Our ears, obviously, we get used to things. And you're cutting that 5K, but it's only because you've gotten so used to it that you have no perspective on what it should really sound like.

Joseph (35:15.315)

Yeah.

Joseph (35:20.625)

Mmm.

Joseph (35:24.386)

Right, right. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah, man.

Brian Funk (35:31.759)

So you said it was a bit of a different process. You were in another studio too. And I read a little bit about that in the press release. And that sounds like it was a big part of the sound of the record.

Joseph (35:44.922)

Yeah, I had started writing these songs and it was kind of taking this shape and I wanted to do something different. And it was taking a darker, slower, just...

like shape in the style of music it was it was it was becoming just very like very much like a band would be You know like it felt to me, you know, like like, you know these songs Were were, you know, like kind of like what would this sound like if it was interpreted by a band and then and then by By thinking about it that way. I thought about what would this How live can I make this and how? how

Brian Funk (36:17.012)

Mm-hmm.

Joseph (36:37.182)

in the room can I make these sounds in the sound pile that I have. So there's a producer named Kurt Ballou who plays in a band called Converge. And he records, he's made so many incredible records and I love how they sound. They sound incredible. They sound, they're heavy and, but they're beautiful sounding records. And I just had this wild idea.

one day where I was like, I want to hit him up and see if I could go to a studio and just

like reamp my synth parts through cabinets and loudspeakers because he has this incredible sounding room. And so I literally cold emailed him and I said, I said, hey, you know, this is kind of the music I make. It's not really, you know, along the lines of what you usually work on. But I have this idea to, you know, to

Brian Funk (37:28.683)

Hmm.

Joseph (37:39.362)

make some recordings and bounce some stuff off the walls of your room. He was like, sounds like fun, let's do it. So we scheduled it and his studio is in Salem, Massachusetts. So I went out there for a couple of days and we did just that. We played all these OB-6 parts that I had written. We played them through guitar amps, mic'd them.

close mics from across the room. And then we, on my mono synth bass parts, we played through a bass cabinet, and again, like room mics and stuff. And I just, I wanted his sensibilities on the record. Like I said to him, I'm like, pretend these aren't synths. Like pretend these are guitars. Like mic this as you would, you know, a metal band in here that, you know, that you're making a record with. And that's what we did.

And it was very different than obviously micing guitars all day. But the results, what I was hearing in the room, it was great. It was exactly what I had imagined. And then my drum stems, we played those through...

these giant PA speakers in his room and got a close mic and a far mic. I made some impulse responses. And then ultimately we, and I got some live drum stuff as well, um, to make samples with and some loops and, um, and a little bit of performance stuff. And then we took all that and dumped it to tape. And then I went back with all that. So I had these, just all these additional layers of.

the structure of the song that I had, I have all these additional layers now of these, you know, synth chords through these guitar amps and it sounded massive. So then the next couple months were just all about me kind of like carving out the parts and like, you know, there's certain parts of the verse where it'll just cut to the room mic and this and that. So that was a lot of fun and that's where...

Brian Funk (39:51.927)

Hmm.

Joseph (39:52.422)

a lot of the really, really intense sound design kind of came in at that point where it was like, you know, and more in the terms of it was almost like, like mixing those parts together and committing them. And then

And then once that part was finished, then taking a little bit of time off and then having my mixing stage. But yeah, that was the main thing that I did this time around and it made such a huge difference. I can hear it. I can hear that it makes a huge difference to me when I go and I listen to what I brought to Salem and then what I came back with. It's just, it's incredible. But again, it was just an inspiring process.

Brian Funk (40:07.695)

Hmm.

Joseph (40:38.1)

It's just, you know, to have someone who's worked on some of your favorite records playing your synth stems in their studio through Marshall cabinets and it sounded like guitars and it's just wild, man. It was so much fun and it was cool and Salem's a trip.

Brian Funk (40:39.679)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (40:47.826)

Yeah.

Joseph (40:58.51)

And then, yeah, and I got back and I finished it and brought it up to my longtime mastering engineer, Justin Weiss, who's up in San Francisco and hit some more tape. And yeah, and I always tell him, I always say,

You know, there's a lot of times mastering is very transparent. And a lot of times that's what people want. And that's not what I want at all. Like I want I want him to impart his his.

Brian Funk (41:25.664)

Mm-hmm.

Joseph (41:30.286)

his vibe on it, you know, as you know, I've let go now and give it to him and he puts a little bit more, you know, juju on it and fuzz and whatever saturation and it's great. And then yeah, and then I come home and I don't want to hear it for like three months. But no, I'm very proud of it. And but yeah, and that was it, man. That was the process. It took it took a while between,

Brian Funk (41:33.011)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (41:49.611)

Thank you.

Joseph (42:00.08)

And then once, you know, I started really, really working on it. And then the time in Salem and then, you know, coming back.

It took a while, but I had some breaks in between but yeah, man It was it was quite the experience and I'll say that like I'm pretty sure that every record I make from this point forward I'll probably Want to like have some stage of it. That is a brand new process for me to experience or experiment with like maybe I mean who knows it could be it could be since through amps again, but

Brian Funk (42:33.076)

Right.

Joseph (42:40.504)

Maybe it's something completely different, you know, the next time around. But it just adds so much to the process to me. And I still believe in records. I still believe in, you know, putting a record on and listening to it as a whole, as a piece, as a piece of art. So, you know, call me old fashioned, but that's me. Yeah. A story.

Brian Funk (42:57.111)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (43:01.175)

Hmm. No, no, that's, that's fun. I mean, that's, it's, you're creating a whole thing, right? So it's like not just these little things, these collective. Yeah. And it's cool. I mean, just so people know you're in like LA, right? Maybe Pasadena, LA, right? Um, so you're probably, what time of year did you go to Salem?

Joseph (43:11.732)

Yeah.

Joseph (43:16.33)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joseph (43:23.626)

It was like almost a year ago. So it was Labor Day. So it was two weeks ago this week. It was a great time, man.

Brian Funk (43:24.863)

Like, what was... Okay. Okay, so nice time to go. Yeah. But Salem is so well known for, people go there all the time in the fall, like Halloween stuff, Salem witch trials. And I think that's a cool little element. You know, the album art you have, you got these like three kind of death looking creatures, skeletons with, in, you know.

Joseph (43:37.426)

Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah.

Joseph (43:47.579)

Yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (43:51.151)

like hoods like death would have. So the Salem factor is kind of fun there to throw that in.

Joseph (43:52.693)

Yeah.

Yeah, man, I mean, I mean, I won't like that 100% factored into it, you know, and inspired it because it's like it's um

Brian Funk (44:02.96)

And a trip. Taking that journey. Pilgrimage.

Joseph (44:03.934)

Yeah, I mean, you're surrounded by that there. It's such a great, yeah, it's such a great city. I had been there years ago, but I hadn't been in probably about 10 or 15 years. And it's just, it's just such a vibey city, man. There's so much culture, you know? And definitely that's seeped in, you know, as I, especially, you know, in terms of like...

just the overall vibe and with instrumental music, it's really hard to kind of like tell a story sometimes and convey an arc through a series of songs on a record. But I think, you know, having a little bit of a vibe and to kind of be your narrative helps. Yeah, it was cool. I brought my, Sarah, my partner and my boy with me too, and they had a great time too. So we all loved it. It was killer.

Brian Funk (44:41.204)

Right.

Brian Funk (44:46.236)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (44:58.439)

Yeah, super cool. So there's that added memory you have and experience. And I always feel like.

Joseph (45:03.21)

Yeah, 100%.

Brian Funk (45:06.487)

That stuff might not be on the record, but I think it makes a difference. I really do. And if to no one else, to you, and even to me now, like hearing that, when I listen to this again, I'm gonna have that in mind and it adds a life. That's hard to put your finger on. It's hard to like pick it out in the sound maybe, but I think it has an element.

Joseph (45:13.467)

Yeah.

Joseph (45:18.101)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Joseph (45:28.442)

Yeah, well, I like, yeah, I mean, I like to put stuff in there. There's a song on there where the sub is hitting the PA speaker so hard that actually the speakers vibrating and you can hear it like I had, you know, like I had to put that in there because it's it's, you know, it's just now it's part like the room is now an instrument, you know, and it's such an incredible he's got such an incredible sounding room.

Brian Funk (45:41.483)

Uh huh.

Brian Funk (45:46.057)

Yeah.

Joseph (45:54.546)

Yeah, and then getting the impulse responses too, and coming back, and yeah, so if I added stuff, I just ran those through those impulse responses, and you know, it was great, it was this awesome glue.

Brian Funk (45:57.747)

Yeah, I was gonna ask you, yeah.

Brian Funk (46:07.843)

What was your process? What reverb did you use? Maybe just if anyone's not sure what impulse responses are, you know, explain that.

Joseph (46:14.526)

So basically we did a 20 to 20 sweep in the room from the sine wave and then got, yeah, we so, right, which I had done always before. So I had, so we now had the sweep and I got back and Max or Ableton has a great device.

Brian Funk (46:19.739)

Oh, you do the sweep, cool. I always do like a hand clap or something. Nice.

Joseph (46:39.734)

to actually like make the sweep and create the impulse, but it didn't have a way for me to take this and deconvolve it. So I actually had to like...

It was like, there was a few pieces of software that did what I needed to do, what I needed to do, but I didn't have any of them. I think there's one fuzz something, fuzz measure, I think that's it. Long story short, I have a friend that is PC based that has a, it was a Voxango, I think that's how you pronounce it, program that had a deconvolver in it. So he deconvolved it for me, made the impulse response. And then I just use it in the Ableton.

Hybrid reverb so it's just in there up all the way on 100% so it's like you're in the room Killer yeah, really but yeah Yeah, it was it's Yeah, it's just such a subtle thing But it really glues this you know really ties the room together. No really um really helps

Brian Funk (47:23.968)

Mm.

Brian Funk (47:27.911)

Yeah, that's cool.

Joseph (47:44.294)

all the elements kind of like exist in that space and that's kind of what I was going for, you know? But then having stuff that's just so direct, you know? Like having this bass part that's through an amp that literally sounds like a bass guitar, but then having a monosynth that's just direct through a preamp and having that juxtaposition between those two sounds is super cool. And, you know, it was such a great experience to have all those layers and to experiment.

with bringing them in and out and stacking them and not stacking them and stuff. I made some killer loops there too, some killer drum loops and stuff because just brought stuff home and just squashed the room mics and it sounds massive. And then I layered all those under the recordings too. Yeah, it was great. Awesome experience.

Brian Funk (48:31.703)

Yeah, nice. You know, there were a lot of times I thought I was hearing guitar, you know, in the record. Like there was some synth that sounded kind of like big guitar chords. And I guess that's how you did it. Yeah. Six strings, six voices.

Joseph (48:41.202)

Right? Yeah.

Joseph (48:45.234)

Yeah, that's it. I mean, it's that OB6. Yeah, that's OB6. But it was more, I realized, no, actually it was usually only just a triad, but I realized, I realized it wasn't about, it was about where, it was about how, totally about how I voiced the chords. Because if you, you know, I made the chords really wide. So,

So if I made them tight, it didn't sound as much like a guitar as if I did an octave and a fifth. And sometimes put the fifth below the root. Yeah, almost exactly like a power chord would be. I was trying to emulate that and really spread them out, move the lowest note down an octave. And then that's when it really started to really kind of sound like...

Brian Funk (49:27.499)

like a fifth power chord type of thing.

Joseph (49:44.65)

you know, like a guitar would and, and really messing with the sustain because, um,

you know, having the sustain and the release, like that took a little bit of trial and error. And I actually had a few different versions, like one I had a really high sustained version, a really low sustained version, and I actually ran them both through the amps. So that was another interesting detail. But for the most part, yeah, man, it was just the OB-6, I used SH-101 for like some harmony stuff, like single note stuff. That was cool.

I used a lot of the Model D for that too. And then there was a lot of like my ARP stuff, you know, if I played, if I played like an ARP or a sequence, I ran out through the room mics. So a lot of, and then a lot of the points in the record is just the room mics, you know? So it's, I mean, I tell everybody, I'm just like, you don't need this, you know, awesome.

Brian Funk (50:43.019)

Yeah.

Joseph (50:49.554)

like huge studio to do this, like just do it in your room. It's incredible. Like almost all the kick sounds for this record, there's one layer that's just me holding up my iPhone to my speakers and getting the kick and then.

throwing that into Ableton and EQing it, because it's super low. But it adds just this gnarly low frequency. But yeah, that little trick is like in almost every single one of the tracks. It just adds this bit of low end, just, you know, as long as you do some surgical EQ and clean it up a little bit, it's great. But yeah, and that's something anyone can do in their room. You know, just experiment with just, you know,

Brian Funk (51:06.847)

Nice.

Brian Funk (51:29.335)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (51:33.043)

Right.

Joseph (51:36.446)

push some air and stuff and they'll have just a little bit more character I think. Yeah.

Brian Funk (51:41.787)

Yeah, the air, right? I think that's such a huge part of it. Like just coming out of the air, you know, cause that's what sound is. It's in the air, you know, and when you synthesize it, it doesn't ever, if you don't put it through, it doesn't ever hit that. And just when it comes out of the speaker and moves the microphone and, you know, the diaphragm gets a little blow of low end there. Yeah, that's such a cool trick to do the.

Joseph (51:43.575)

Yeah.

Joseph (51:48.618)

Yeah, man. Yeah.

Joseph (51:56.154)

Right. Yeah.

Joseph (52:06.407)

Yeah, that's it, man. Yeah, exactly.

Brian Funk (52:10.443)

the speaker, I've done it with a micro cassette recorder. And it's like a, it's a hideous sound, but it sometimes it's just like, you layer it or you time stretch it, you sample it. You get just, it adds this like life to your songs. It's hard to get any other way.

Joseph (52:14.554)

Oh, that's cool. That's super cool.

Joseph (52:18.87)

But you layer it in there sometimes. Yeah.

Joseph (52:29.126)

Yeah. Yeah, it's just exactly, you know, it's just like a lot of production and sound design to me are just the layers and just having one that's just this interesting thing that maybe you only hear it on the sides or maybe you only hear it, you only hear the highs, just having some little thing. I don't know, just try it. If it doesn't work, you can always delete it, you know? Yeah.

Brian Funk (52:54.719)

Well, the record has a lot of space as in like there's four ground elements. Like some of the synths are so in your face, like I said, they sound like they're tearing your speakers apart. And then there's other stuff that's sort of like floating out there in the distance and it's not buried though. It's very easy to hear and it's in the mix clearly, but

Joseph (53:13.461)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (53:15.623)

It creates this three-dimensional feeling. And I can really, you know, upon thinking about it now, and I'm gonna have to listen again after talking to you, that reamping on some things and like you said, combining it with stuff that's a little more direct as well really sets these different kind of stages in your depth, foreground, mid-ground, background type stuff.

Joseph (53:32.862)

Yeah.

Joseph (53:38.379)

Yep. Yeah.

Exactly.

Joseph (54:43.76)

even within the three different parts of our mix, right? So we have drum stuff, then we have low end stuff, or four parts. We have the mid-range, really atmospheric stuff. And then we have all our leads that take the place of a vocal.

I think within that, within even those parts, we can have dimension within those parts. We could have one of the leads be super direct and in your face and then the same thing, the same patch, which is played through a PA speaker, mic'd from across the room. It just adds such an extra layer. Maybe you don't even feel that extra layer of the room, but, or I'm sorry, maybe you don't even hear it, but you feel it, it's there. It's just kind of a, just a little bit on top.

Thanks for watching!

Brian Funk (55:40.115)

Yeah, and you said before, um, a lot of these things are subtle, but when you start adding a lot of subtle things together, the effect is pretty dramatic. You know, those, those things add up. And sometimes if you make it too extreme, you do it a couple of times and you almost can't even tell anything happened because they, they all kind of command too much attention from you. You kind of miss it's like five people screaming at you compared to like.

Joseph (55:44.139)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (56:08.831)

different volume levels, I guess. You know what I'm saying? I love that you told your mastering engineer to not make it transparent. My band, we brought our record for mastering and we wanted on tape and we're like, we want it to have that. We're not trying to put it to tape so it doesn't sound like it was put to tape. Right? You want to get the effect.

Joseph (56:11.966)

Yeah.

Joseph (56:20.401)

No, no, he...

Joseph (56:27.637)

Yeah, sure.

Joseph (56:32.286)

Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he actually loves that. Like we had a whole conversation about it because, you know, I mean at this point, I mean, he's been my mastering engineer for like over 10 years at this point, but he's done every single, almost every Snake song. And...

Brian Funk (56:36.715)

That.

Joseph (56:53.082)

He's just, that's part of the reason we love working together because he knows I want that, you know? And I'm just like, I'm like, whatever you think is safe, just go one click above that and then that's probably what I'll love. You know, and I usually just send the stuff to him to actually to be there actually this time. I was actually in the room and listening in his system and it was super cool, it was super cool to be there. So.

Brian Funk (56:57.818)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (57:03.903)

Hehehe

Right?

Brian Funk (57:12.08)

Oh, cool.

Joseph (57:18.758)

Yeah, it's great. I don't like subtle, man. I don't, you know, there's a lot of gear that's too subtle, you know.

And that's great. Like we all need that for like surgical EQs, right? You know, Pro 3, great surgical EQ, but really what we want, you know, I want something that's just gonna impart its character on whatever I want to such a degree, you know? And that's a lot about the hardware that I use and the sense that I use and stuff. I mean, like my Space Echo alone is just like,

Brian Funk (57:37.066)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (57:51.467)

Hmm.

Joseph (58:01.36)

just awful, but it's like, it just adds this just, it's just this unpredictability that never is the same twice and you know, I also got this other piece of gear, it's behind me, it's called a VRS, the VRS-23, and it's this bucket brigade.

Brian Funk (58:09.088)

Yeah.

Joseph (58:23.21)

It's a stereo bucket brigade and delay, but it gets the long, really long delay time. So I use it a lot as a reverb on the record because there's just something about bucket brigade delays that I love because they're just filthy. And so, yeah, that's the gear I like. Definitely not subtle. Like I don't, you know, I have, I have some preamps, you know, like, like API's and stuff. And, and sure. I mean, I mean, every once in a while we need something to be transparent as possible, you know, but not.

Brian Funk (58:32.03)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (58:36.594)

Yeah.

Joseph (58:53.424)

Not for me, for this project. I want it to be as much character as one could get.

Brian Funk (58:56.436)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (59:02.943)

That must be part of the reason your music resonates with me too, because I love it. I love that kind of stuff. I want the thing to have a sound, you know? Like, digital plugins are great for the clarity and all that stuff. And if I'm going to use a piece of gear, like, come on, give me something, you know?

Joseph (59:08.457)

Yeah, I mean, yeah man, yeah.

Joseph (59:16.749)

Yeah.

Joseph (59:21.922)

Right, right, but even some digital stuff like Vahala, it's just, once you start turning the drive knobs, there's so much character, and especially the delay, the Vahala delay is my number one favorite plugin. And it's just, because there's so much, much character in that delay, and it's just, and what's not subtle about that is each mode.

Brian Funk (59:29.611)

Hmm.

Joseph (59:49.614)

is just completely a different flavor, which I really appreciate. And I feel that way about there's some, yeah, it's incredible and it's like 50 bucks. Like, it's just, I mean, they could easily charge $500 for that plugin and I'd still buy it. Like, it's incredible. They also, well, on the plugin talk, like...

Brian Funk (59:55.644)

It's like a couple plugins in one.

Joseph (01:00:11.554)

The Waves Abbey Road stuff is incredible. Like, it's just like, there's tons of waves, chambers on this record, especially on the drums. And the TG Mastering, which I use a lot as a compressor, that's on here as well too. And the Kramer Tape is on a lot of stuff, yeah. So.

Yeah, I mean I break plugins into those two categories too. Like there's some I have that are just super like clean and surgical and like, you know, when we need to clean up a vocal, that's what we, that's what we pick. But then, you know, if we want to get, you know, our kick drum sounded gnarly, you know, those are the plugins that are exciting to me. So, but they're both equally as important in the process. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:00:34.14)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:00:54.096)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:00:57.515)

Hmm. Well, that makes a lot of sense then that you're getting some of the sound design work too, and film stuff. Um, I wanted to kind of pick your brain and just hear a little bit about that too. And I love how you look at it as this sort of like other thing you can do. So when you're working on your snakes and Russia stuff, you're, you're really going hard with that, but then you need a break, but

Joseph (01:01:17.675)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:01:24.615)

It's such a great way to take a break in another style of work, but that's still within music so that I'm sure when you come back to doing your music, you got some new tricks, you have new sounds that you've created, new loops and samples and stuff. So yeah, I know you've done some stuff with Spitfire and Ableton. Right?

Joseph (01:01:37.25)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Joseph (01:01:44.298)

Yeah, yeah, that and, um, yeah, I worked on, I worked on, there's a library, um, uh, for spitfire called Colossus. And I did, I, there's a, there's a section of these altered drum kits.

And I did those and then there's a section of synths. So I did those. So it's just kind of like, it's this really cool library that goes from small to big or clean to dirty. So like chamber to orchestra, the chamber size to symphony size. So I approached the sound design from that point of view, like here's the sound super small and then here's the sound super wide. And it's right after I got that bucket brigade reverb

So there's a lot of that on it, just to give it this huge width. Yeah, so projects like that, and then doing some stuff for Ableton, and there's an incredible company called Infinite Samples that I've done stuff for that make incredible stuff. And then for trailer music and trailer libraries and stuff. And it's all fun, because it's just like using a different part of my brain. It's still creative.

Brian Funk (01:02:29.876)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:02:57.502)

and I love it so much. It's, and then my own sample packs too, like, you know, kind of working on those. What's that? What were you saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have the Gummer Road story, yeah, yeah. And I love making those and people write me all the time and tell me how much they dig them and that they're super inspiring and that's so cool to hear, you know. I just.

Brian Funk (01:03:05.332)

Yeah, Gumroad, right?

Brian Funk (01:03:09.275)

on Gumroad, right? You've got, you have the Gumroad store, yeah.

Joseph (01:03:27.522)

Um, because I really love, I love making that stuff. It's, it's, you know, making, making samples and loops is like one of my favorite things to do and, you know, I'm being able to do it for like a few different, um, people right now and, and kind of just imparting what I do, you know, as this project and as snakes kind of on their project as a whole is super cool, you know, so it does, it does, but it also does help break up, you know, um,

You know, sound design days are very different than, you know, writing days. Cause it's just, you know, um, it's, it's a lot of crossover, but, but it's, it's still like, um, it's just feels like a different day to me. It's great. You know? Um, so yeah, it's, it's been really, it's been a lot of fun projects like that. And, and, and then the scoring work and stuff. And then that's also been incredible. So I love, I love doing that work too. It's fun, you know, working with.

I've been helping out a lot of other composers to do sound design for certain things. And that's fun too, because it's again more of the sound design bug. And it's great. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:04:40.319)

That's really, and your music is so perfect for trailers. I mean, it's, it's got that like epic, you know, especially I'm sure like action science fiction kind of film. Like it, it just captures the excitement and drama that I'm sure they're trying to bring forth in a short trailer to get people to the movie.

Joseph (01:04:58.802)

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, I've done a lot. Since we last talked, I've done quite a bit of that, you know, and I love it. I love it, and one of the reasons I love it, one of the very, is because there's these kind of like boundaries, you know, like there's, you know, here's.

Brian Funk (01:05:04.255)

Thank you.

Brian Funk (01:05:21.875)

Mm-hmm.

Joseph (01:05:23.05)

this amount of time, it's always got to feel intense, it's got to, you know, there's some, these are some elements that, you know, again, I think sometimes boundaries and limitations help us and especially within the world of trailer music for me.

That is just fuel for fire for me. It's just like, you know, just take those guidelines and go. You know, so I love it. I love making trailer music. It's so fun. And then, you know, getting to kind of impart, you know, some ideas from, you know, my record tracks onto a, you know, minute and a half trailer cue and have that do well is super cool. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:06:05.148)

Yeah, you have to sort of solve the puzzle in that case, right? You got the certain amount of time, certain hits, certain emotions, certain moments that have to occur and then you get to fill it in and figure it out.

Joseph (01:06:14.654)

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And probably one of the coolest things I think about trailer music, from me and my experience anyway, is the weirder the better. Like it's just, it just.

You can almost, almost never be too weird. And as a creative person, that's incredible, right? To hear, you know, you can always be bigger or weirder, you know, so I love that as a guideline, you know? I mean, it's kind of like, in everything I do in that world, I try to have, you know, like one or two sounds in there that someone listens to and like...

Brian Funk (01:06:28.327)

Heh.

Brian Funk (01:06:32.65)

Alright.

Joseph (01:06:56.838)

it really stands out, you know? And I find that that's the thing that I usually kind of send it over the edge, you know? Just this one or two sound design elements that really stand out, you know? That's, to me, in that world, is kind of a super important thing.

Brian Funk (01:07:17.595)

Hmm. Yeah. And I guess you have to sort of keep it to a smaller number, right? Cause if you have eight or nine things that are interesting, it's too much to keep track of, you don't get the appreciated and notice the details in it. Where's one.

Joseph (01:07:33.254)

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty funny because it's this pretty funny kind of interesting formula of space for things to breathe, but also constantly moving and evolving and changing every seven seconds and finding the middle ground between those two things. And then, of course, it all depends on what the cue is for. If it's obviously a superhero trailer, it's obviously going to sound much more different than like...

a thriller or a horror trailer. You know, it's going to have, those are different interpretations. Those are different things. Like one is...

huge soaring brass and you know string ostinatos and the other one might be just like Super minimalism and you might be able to get really weird with it and that's the beauty within that within that within that Way of expressing yourself, you know as someone who writes trailer music It's like there's so many different ways you can go and I think that's why I enjoy it and it's such a great Kind of break from making snakes records, you know where it's like I'm still using all the same

things, you know, all the same ideas and tools and it just kind of keeps me to just stay fresh and just kind of, you know, keep coming up with ideas every day.

Brian Funk (01:08:59.639)

I guess I do similar things with my work. I mean, I've got a bunch of different ways to scratch the musical itch. I mean, we're doing a podcast right now. It might be making packs and sound designing instruments or writing songs or playing with the band. Yeah. I mean, I love it. I, yeah, I totally get your.

Joseph (01:09:12.33)

Yeah, you make a lot of, you have a lot of, you have like a ton of packs. Yeah, you have a ton of packs. You have like hundreds, right? Yeah. How many are you up to? Are you up to now? Yeah. How many are you up to?

Brian Funk (01:09:24.103)

On the free packs, I've got over 200. Um, and then the premium stuff is like, it's catching up. You know, it's, I must have like 70 or so. Um, it's a discipline thing though. Like it's a month, monthly thing. You know, I try to get that out every month.

Joseph (01:09:28.318)

I mean that's incredible man.

Joseph (01:09:38.558)

That's so crazy, man. And what do you do? Yeah. Do you set aside time to do those? Like, do you say like, I wanna have one out a month and you make that your goal?

Brian Funk (01:09:54.555)

Yeah. Um, yeah, I've got people that subscribe to my music production club and like, that's kind of the thing is like, there's a new thing that comes out every month. Um, usually some kind of pack and it, it gets you disciplined. You know, it's the same thing. It's like, you have to do that. You can't not. Yeah. The accountability. Yeah. It's big.

Joseph (01:09:55.478)

That's cool.

Joseph (01:10:12.418)

Well, the accountability, the accountability, that's, yeah. That's another, yeah, that's another big thing for me is the accountability factor, yeah. But there's people, yeah. That's awesome, man. That's super cool. Yeah, 100%.

Brian Funk (01:10:22.632)

and

Brian Funk (01:10:26.979)

It does, the pressure is good, yeah. But what I kind of wanted to ask you a little bit was, sometimes doing all those things, I mean, I love each one, so this is why maybe it's a problem, is sometimes you spread yourself a little thin. Do you find that? Do you have ways of avoiding that? So you're not, you know.

short-changing anything or just running out of steam. You know, because you're doing a lot of different things too and they're big projects and there's only so much Joseph to go around, right?

Joseph (01:10:59.53)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:11:03.25)

I mean, I'm traditionally awful at saying no. It was actually my New Year's resolution this year to say no more. I'm probably failing, but yes and no. I kind of...

Joseph (01:11:29.5)

There's a lot of things, you know, I've been making music professionally for this, it will be 10 years next year. And there's a lot of things that I did in the beginning that like I'm not so keen on doing now. And only for the reason that it takes me away from the stuff I really want to do, which is everything that we've been talking about. It's stuff I always want to do and continue doing.

Brian Funk (01:11:51.41)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:11:55.554)

you know, until I can. So if there's something that comes along, I think I just take a pause and think about like, okay, like, you know, how long is this going to take? How much energy is this going to take, both physical and mental? And I like to say, like, am I going to have fun? Is it going to be like, is it going to be...

Am I going to enjoy the process? Am I going to learn something by doing this? You know, I'm in the middle of doing a project. It's it's it might it might even I don't know if it'll be out by the time this is released. But but it's there was I needed to work in a.

a DAW that I don't usually work in, but, and which is like tying my hands behind my back to use it, but I looked at it like, if I'm gonna learn something new from the experience, then that is a plus, like that's a reason for me to do it. Because just like being, something being lucrative these days is like, that's not the be all end all to me, like it's like, is it gonna be fun? Am I gonna have, do I enjoy working with these people? Is it, you know,

Brian Funk (01:12:59.2)

Mm.

Joseph (01:13:13.412)

I feel really great about when it's done. So I think even before that, there's a lot of questions that I ask myself. And then, you know, from there, the other thing is that I'm really good with time management and I budget my time really well and I compartmentalize my days and...

I work fast. So, and that's just by doing it for so long, right? That I've been able to just kind of like, if I need to get from A to B, that's my skill. Other people are like incredible guitar players or sick drummers. I can just get from point A to point B. If you want something that sounds like this, I can get us here, all the other way around. If you just know what you want, if you give me a reference and, so having that skill set and having that be probably

Brian Funk (01:13:37.195)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:14:01.889)

skill, that really helps get things done really fast. So I think that, you know, both the combination of being really selective these days about what I do and then really taking the time to...

budget my time, taking the time to budget my time or plan my week out and really kind of like say, this is the most important thing and it's gonna take the most energy, the most creative energy, so I'm gonna do this first thing and then I get that done. And then the afternoon is about stuff that's a little lighter. If I need to organize stuff or rename stuff or like chop samples or anything like that, like that is stuff that's like a little less creative and more administrative.

Brian Funk (01:14:21.073)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:14:46.08)

to do that. So it's all about just being a little bit smarter about where the energy goes. And somehow, like I mentioned before, my day is shorter than it's ever been, with a family, and yet I get more done.

Brian Funk (01:14:47.163)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:14:53.599)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:15:03.722)

Like, the time is so focused, and it's just like, I come in here, I work, and I get out of here. So, and, you know, yeah, so I hope that answers your question. I know this is a very long-form way of answering that, but yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:15:16.615)

Oh yeah. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. Of course, like, you know, the limited time thing forces you to really value it, right? Things that are in limited supply we value more so you don't waste it as much. The idea of kind of, I do a lot of the same things you do actually with the trying to decide like if I'm going to learn something, if it's going to have something else to it that brings value and I like to ask myself the question, do I

Joseph (01:15:24.608)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:15:42.168)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:15:46.607)

I might say like, yeah, that sounds cool, but would I do it tomorrow? Like when it's actually, you know, the next thing on the schedule. If it's no, then it's like, then it's not going to be yes in three months or a week or something. It helps a lot. It's made me make some smart decisions that way.

Joseph (01:15:50.774)

That's great. That's it. No, that's perfect. Finish note.

Joseph (01:16:00.654)

I love that. I love that. That's perfect, man. Yeah.

Joseph (01:16:08.735)

It does. I usually say, would I do that on Friday? You take it one level, you're like, well, I do it tomorrow. That's really, no, but I love that. I've done that before. And if the answer is no, then it's just like, huh, well, I guess then, you know. So, yeah, it's great.

Brian Funk (01:16:21.846)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:16:25.507)

I'm still extremely flattered anyone that wants anything to do with me, right? So my tendency is to want to say yes, you know? So, but there are certain things that, um, just aren't part of the vision. I think that helped a lot is having a clearer vision of what I want to do. And, um, there's just certain things that I'm just not, I just don't want to do as much.

Joseph (01:16:29.838)

Dude, I get it. Yeah, same way. I'm the same. Yeah, I'm the same. I'm just, yeah.

Joseph (01:16:44.666)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:16:52.01)

Yeah, exactly. And that changes. Like that changes all the time. That's like the things that I am excited about doing. Well, the things that like, you know, I'm not so excited about doing have evolved and changed, you know? And also like, you know.

Brian Funk (01:16:52.115)

and having that limited time helps you focus it. Yeah, true.

Joseph (01:17:12.574)

You know, I'm, it's also like, you know, there's, there's probably other people that would be way more excited about doing that thing because that's kind of their thing. You know, like, you know, like vocal production. Like I, like, like I have some friends that are just like, they're just the best vocal producers in the world. Like that's what they do. So, you know, I'm happy like, like go to him. He'll do such a better job, you know? Yeah. So I think being able to be honest about that and, and say like, you know, this is my skillset.

Brian Funk (01:17:34.196)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:17:40.469)

Hmm.

Joseph (01:17:42.508)

do really well. This is what I love to do. It's so important.

Brian Funk (01:17:48.699)

Yeah, and I've found it helps too to have somebody to turn people to if it's something I don't really want to do anymore. But this person, she's great, he's great. That's what they like to do. Then I feel a little less, maybe it's like a people pleaser thing, you know, that at least it can send you in the right direction. Yeah, true. Yeah.

Joseph (01:17:54.379)

Oh yeah.

Joseph (01:17:58.613)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:18:02.27)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:18:08.414)

You're off, yeah, no, I don't think so. But then also, you're helping your friend out. It's throwing them, throwing them, some work is awesome, yeah.

Joseph (01:18:20.606)

Amen.

Brian Funk (01:18:21.567)

Let me ask you quickly, I know we're probably getting kind of near the end, but I apologize. I like talking to you. I'm curious about what's the live show look like? How does that come about? Because you've got, I mean, you can't be like re-amping stuff in the venues so much, I'm sure. How do you perform? What does that look like?

Joseph (01:18:28.598)

Bill, please, man, it's been a great time.

Joseph (01:18:39.614)

Right. So yeah, I'm trying to think the timeline of when we last talked and I played my first gig. I think it was about nine months after we had talked for the first time. I think, I think, and it was just, it was just my modular synth case.

And at that time it was an Octatrack. Just so my Octatrack in a modular synth case, and this was in like the down tempo room.

at this rave here in LA. And it was great because it was so loud. It was the loudest shows I've ever played. So I come from bands, I come from being a front man, I come from the energy of a band behind me, but that in that 30 minutes was completely replaced by just how the sheer volume of that performance and just how loud it was. So that became the thing of just the subs and just how loud.

it was. So since then the performance has like, it's evolved. It's, you know, I went from using the Octatrack to...

switching over to Ableton. Because I'm an Ableton user through and through for production in the studio, but now using it as a live tool too. So I have the push and I have Ableton on the laptop and then I still have the modular case. But then I started to integrate like a light show, a little bit of a light show, and then most recently a projector visual. So with that, I need to have the Ableton session. So it basically, that's the gig.

Joseph (01:20:28.528)

and that could fly kind of anywhere. It all fits in like three cases. So that was the show. It has been the show for like the last, at least year. And, but about, so in April.

of this year I released a video called for a single called Doe's Thrones and in that video there's two drummers playing along with me and that's kind of like my I mean if I could scale this the way I want to in you know my

you know, my crazy dreams, it would be a band. It would be a full band, you know, just me and, you know, two drummers and maybe just a bass player and a synth, you know, maybe that plays a synth too. So that was always the idea of how this would scale to, right, but obviously for right now, it's very sustainable for me just to play by myself, you know, because I could fly that. It's very, you know, I have a tour coming up in October where I'm literally just jumping in the vehicle

Brian Funk (01:21:08.599)

Cool.

Joseph (01:21:33.768)

and off we go. So it's very, I understand that it's easy to do because it is just me. No, no, it's just me. So it's very easy to do right now. Just, no, these guys are meeting the other band. Like there's room in the vehicle with the other band. So they're like, yeah, just hop in with us, you know? So I understand that because, what's that? What's that?

Brian Funk (01:21:37.491)

But the drummers?

Brian Funk (01:21:41.195)

Oh, okay. Okay. These guys meeting the cases. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha.

Brian Funk (01:21:53.744)

Nice. That's a good thing to have. That's just a good thing to be able to do is to get the ride, hop in the van, whatever, right? Yeah.

Joseph (01:22:01.246)

Right, exactly. Yeah, right. So that's why it's sustainable and I'm hesitant to add more members for now, right? But the second I, you know, I'm doing a release show here in LA, which I'm actually playing with two other people. So, you know, I'm kind of treating it as like a case by case thing, you know? If there's a big enough show and I can afford to bring out a band, I will.

Brian Funk (01:22:13.445)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:22:30.794)

But for now, man, it's just me, the modular case, Ableton, some lights and a projector playing the visuals in the back of me. I'm having a ball, I love it. Like I didn't, you know, I'll be completely honest with you. Again, coming from bands, I didn't think I'd have half as much fun doing the shows, but I am. I'm having a blast, I love it. It connects with people, I think. And yeah, it's been super fun. I'm excited for these shows and this tour so much. Especially getting the new stuff out there and playing the new stuff.

And it was, you know, a lot of that writing was informed by the live show. And like I want to make stuff that just sounds massive in a room. And then also when I add drummers, it'll just sound even bigger, you know.

Brian Funk (01:23:14.803)

Yeah, I come from bands too and I've got really excited about the fact that you can take electronic music productions or whatever you want to call it, I guess. You can do it live now and it's so fun that it translates, it's exciting, there's energy and I've always blows my mind. Even like I kind of work at a session view and I've

Joseph (01:23:23.276)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Joseph (01:23:30.374)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:23:34.751)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:23:40.514)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:23:42.035)

effects on my vocals and things like that. But the recorded parts are always exactly the same, but every show is different. I can arrange things different, do different effects, but it's just wild that it's like having band members that are playing the same thing, but it comes out different every time. There's a lot of life to these performances now that you can do. It's so cool.

Joseph (01:23:52.126)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:24:02.856)

Yeah.

Yeah, agreed. And it's always, for me, it's always evolving, it's always changing. My live set session is always changing. And it's like, I'm at this constant crossroads of making it dangerous enough.

Brian Funk (01:24:16.851)

Yeah, me too.

Joseph (01:24:25.406)

that something could go wrong to keep it interesting. So I leave a little bit of it up to, be it arrangement or triggering loops on top, but not have those be quantized or just playing stuff in or my modular patch. So it's like this crossroad of like, because ultimately the show must go on, right? And I need to have it steady and constant, which is one of the reasons why

Brian Funk (01:24:26.764)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:24:30.187)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:24:54.96)

move back over to Ableton for the live show anyway, because I felt like it was a little bit more sturdier. So yeah, it's this battle between that. And it's like, how much do I wanna put in the hands of fate or, you know, and then especially adding some other members and stuff, like, you know, it's just gonna move a little bit more, especially with a live drummer, even though they're triggering

Brian Funk (01:25:21.716)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:25:25.321)

the samples from within the session, it's still gonna, you know, kind of move a little bit, which is gonna be super fun. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:25:30.187)

Hmm. Yeah.

that it's a little variety, a little sway. That's really cool. Yeah, that's part of, you know, I wanna see a show that has like some danger. When I go to a show and it's just like going to be exactly the same thing, it's guaranteed, there's a little bit of a fun that's lost, but when it's, you know, stuff can happen. Just like when you see a band, you know, weird things happen.

Joseph (01:25:35.626)

Yeah. A little danger too. Yeah.

Joseph (01:26:02.196)

Yeah. Right.

Brian Funk (01:26:04.758)

That's cool. Thrilling.

Joseph (01:26:09.236)

Yeah, and I think even before that, I think the live arrangements for me are, I make them all different on purpose, so I want there to be some variation. So I think a lot with playing the live show, it's all about front loading and just doing most of the work beforehand to have this set that we can mess with live.

And you're right, it's never the same twice because there's always just different, you know, but having a lot of stuff to play with and to bring in and out and stuff and, but having, putting in the work and setting that up, I think is an important part of it. And it keeps it interesting for sure.

Brian Funk (01:26:30.763)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:26:48.743)

Yeah, you're basically building your instrument and then learning how to play it. And it's a lot of that. Yeah. A lot of that has to happen beforehand. You got to really know it inside and out. And, um, I think maybe before. Yeah, go ahead. You said you're having a lot of fun.

Joseph (01:26:52.81)

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Joseph (01:27:00.678)

Yeah, I have a lot of fun making

Joseph (01:27:05.506)

What's that? I said, I have a lot of fun making. Yeah, I have a lot of fun making the, like the live arrangements or interpretations, of certain songs, like kind of live mixes and live edits that are different than the records, so that people, you know.

have a different, like exactly what you're saying. It's like, it's not the same thing. It's not just the track, you know what I mean? Maybe songs bleed into each other that are in the same key and stuff. Yeah, I just like to, and plus it's more fun for me, you know, like how can I expect anyone else to have a good time if I'm not having a good time, you know? So yeah, it's fun.

Brian Funk (01:27:42.803)

Yeah. In those situations, you're, you're like in charge of the energy for the whole place. So you have to be enthusiastic. Like it, because whatever you're feeling is contagious. If it's, if you're excited, that's great. If you're like bored and good luck having anyone enjoy that.

Joseph (01:27:49.898)

Yeah. Right. It's a lot of pressure.

Joseph (01:27:55.584)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:28:01.79)

Yeah, it really translates, it does, it translates. Yeah, for sure.

Brian Funk (01:28:09.203)

So this has been great, man. Uh, so good to catch up with you. Um, Friday, October the 13th, Friday the 13th. So appropriate. I love that you got that date. True surrender. I guess it'll be on all the streaming services and all of that. Right.

Joseph (01:28:11.346)

Yeah, absolutely, man.

Joseph (01:28:17.967)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm working with a label this time. Yeah, I'm working with a label called Modular Field from Cologne, Germany. Incredible people, incredible label. Yeah, it was their suggestion to do it on Friday the 13th. And I'm like, well, I guess we, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so it'll be on all the streaming services. There's gonna be, there's a vinyl edition that's available for pre-order. And yeah, all the things, man, for sure.

Brian Funk (01:28:35.828)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:28:50.483)

Yeah, exciting times for you. I'm really happy for you. Congratulations on the release. It really is awesome. I mean, I don't know anything that sounds like that. And it's very...

Joseph (01:28:56.738)

Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

Brian Funk (01:29:01.499)

entertaining on a lot of different levels. You can go out at sound design, just song structure, just as a whole, as an album that just sets a vibe. There's a lot of ways in for this album. I think you did a great job. And I'm excited to listen to it again after hearing some of the backstory from you.

Joseph (01:29:16.034)

Thanks, man.

Right. Yeah. Well, thanks. I'm really proud of it. And I just hope that people connect with it, you know. And yeah, it's awesome.

Brian Funk (01:29:26.614)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:29:29.855)

Very cool. So where can we send people to find out more about snakes of Russia and all the work you do? What do you like to?

Joseph (01:29:31.138)

woman.

Joseph (01:29:36.802)

I mean, snakesandrusher.com just goes to my website, which usually has links to everything. My Instagram as well, I'm pretty active over there. My YouTube channel, I post more and more too these days. But I would say snakesandrusher.com is just kind of the hub and then that branches off if you're...

Brian Funk (01:29:59.105)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:29:59.89)

If you want to get some other records, t-shirts, or something like that, that'll go to my band camp. And then that goes also to my Gumroad, if you want to get some of the sample packs. So yeah, I would say snakesandrussia.com is the place.

Brian Funk (01:30:18.091)

Very cool. Well, I gotta thank you very much for being here. Appreciate you taking the time to catch up. It's always great to talk to you. You're a cool dude, man. You have a lot of darkness in your music, but your personality is like all sunshine. So, it's...

Joseph (01:30:19.405)

Yeah.

Joseph (01:30:23.606)

Dude, thank you. Thank you, I appreciate you having me. It was great, yeah, it was great to come back on.

Joseph (01:30:37.94)

I would I mean nobody would want to hang if I if I was yeah no one would want to hang out with me or talk to me if I was that you know morose all the time but thank you

Brian Funk (01:30:47.259)

Yeah, I guess that's like the escape, right? That's the outlet. Yeah. So.

Joseph (01:30:52.268)

It is 100% yeah absolutely man.

Brian Funk (01:30:55.107)

Healthy, yeah. So yeah, everybody, check out Joseph Swarick, snakesofrussia.com, and I'll put all the stuff in the show notes where you had a lot of things we touched upon that I'll also put links to. And thank you for listening.

podcastBrian Funkmusic production podcast, snakes of russia