Mixing, Mastering, and Staying Creative with Mike Nikou - Music Production Podcast #424

podcast
Written By Brian Funk

Mike Nikou is the owner of Mic Nix Productions, a studio based in Adelaide, South Australia. He specialises in mixing, mastering, and full song production. Mike and I discussed how he began playing in rock bands and found his love of recording and production. We discussed how music making has changed and continues to evolve. Mike spoke in-depth about his mixing and mastering workflow and philosophy. 

This episode comes with a free download courtesy of Mike!
Click here to get Mikes Mixing and Mastering Checklists, as well as his own presets for the Slate Virtual Mixing Rack plug-in.

This episode is dedicated to (not sponsored by!) Darwin Audio and his awesome vintage soda/beer can microphones: https://darwinaudio.net

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:01.358)

Okay, Mike, we are on. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.

Mike Nikou (00:05.86)

Brian, thanks so much for having me. Really appreciate it.

Brian Funk (00:09.346)

Yeah, it's great to talk to you. I've been watching your videos, especially on Instagram is where they really seem to know that I like you.

Mike Nikou (00:16.919)

that's great man. Well, thanks for the support.

Brian Funk (00:19.436)

Yeah, well, it's supporting me as well. I think you give out great advice, practical advice, sometimes technical, sometimes philosophical. It's always great when I flip up and then you pop up on there and you've always got something worth listening to. It's great stuff.

Mike Nikou (00:21.774)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (00:37.22)

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Now, look, equally, I love what you're doing with your podcast as well. I like how you've got a lot of the little clips that tend to come up on Instagram and that it's really cool to just see some of those little key tidbits. And it definitely keeps me watching as well.

Brian Funk (00:55.106)

Yeah, cool. Yeah, we should probably say thanks to David Paul Newell for connecting us from the Midnight Mystery Club. He was on it.

Mike Nikou (01:02.038)

Absolutely. Thank you so much to David. Much appreciated. Such a great guy.

Brian Funk (01:08.044)

Yeah, yeah, he was really happy with your work and yeah, I mean, I heard the music too and it sounds great.

Mike Nikou (01:16.514)

Yeah, David's been fantastic to work with over the years and yeah, I love what he's him and Levar are doing with Midnight Mystery Club. Yeah, I think they've got some really cool things happening and it's always an absolute pleasure to work with the guys. Love their music.

Brian Funk (01:35.416)

Hmm. That's always nice, I guess, right? When things you're enjoying the project and the work. I wonder, I wonder if you could just give us the background story a little bit. I know you've got, you know, you're not just engineer, you're not wearing that hat and that perspective. You've also come from like being a musician and songwriter too, which I think is always really nice in any, even

Mike Nikou (01:43.275)

yeah, yeah definitely.

Mike Nikou (01:57.21)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (02:04.48)

say a drummer that understands songwriting a little bit or understands any other aspect that really deepens their ability in both areas. So yeah, I'd love to just hear a little bit about the story, how you got there and how you got here.

Mike Nikou (02:18.264)

Yeah, absolutely. Look, think sound and music, I think is something that I've been obsessed with as far back as I can remember. Even as a young kid, I remember playing like this little ukulele around the house and then I started walking around with one of those little rectangular tape machines, those little portable ones. And excuse me, I used to just walk around the house just recording sounds or I'd

Brian Funk (02:40.27)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Nikou (02:47.226)

record my younger brothers having an argument and play it back to them. I was, you know, even just simple things like, you know, messing around with the microphone on the tape deck and listening to the sounds it would make if you blew into it, or if you, you tapped it against something. So think I always had a bit of an obsession with sound and I have a theory that it was like, I'm compensating for my terrible vision. I think that's, so I've sort of...

Brian Funk (02:51.0)

You

Mike Nikou (03:14.488)

have this hyper awareness hearing or something. That's kind of my theory, but I was always obsessed with music. think, like I said, as far back as I can remember, my first inspiration, I think to play the guitar was, you know, hearing Dyer Straits and Mike Knopfler. You know, I grew up in the, eighties and nineties and first time I heard like Money For Nothing. I just, you know, it really made me take

Brian Funk (03:37.998)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Nikou (03:41.729)

notice of the guitar. And I think I became really obsessed with the idea of learning guitar. And then through early school, I remember I couldn't get into the guitar class because it was full. So they went into violin because I thought, cool, that's got strings. So I'll just run with that. And I remember playing that for a couple of years, but I always wanted to play guitar. And eventually I was, and end up being sort of self-taught over the years. I mean, I played a few instruments through my school years. And eventually

finally acquired a guitar and sort of spent years and years just teaching myself and got to end of high school and class of 95, me and two school friends decided we wanted to start a band and we were really into that whole 90s alternative rock grunge thing. It's funny because once it hit 95,

It was kind of the start of, guess, what people call like the post grunge era. So we were kind of in it. It was a funny time. I mean, the music scene here in Adelaide, it was very vibrant. There were so many great bands and, and, you know, it was really hard to sort of get a foot in the door. But we were just, we were naive young musicians. We couldn't play that well. We didn't have great equipment. But yeah, we were heavily influenced by bands like Green Day.

Brian Funk (04:42.945)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (05:08.186)

Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana. I was a big fan of The Cure as well. So there was that kind of darker sort of moody, excuse me, chorus guitar sounds. I think even at that time using a chorus pedal kind of wasn't too cool in 95, but we were kind of into that. So we were a bit of a blend of a lot of those bands. And yeah, we played a lot of gigs. I've played in many bands over the years, even played in a

Brian Funk (05:20.215)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (05:37.627)

tribute band for a while. We were sort of like a Britpop tribute band where we were playing kind of Oasis and The Stones and The Smiths and all sorts of bands and we played a lot of gigs. We got to support some bands, iconic Australian bands like Mental as anything. I'm not sure if you've heard of those guys. But yeah, we played a lot of shows and then I sort of went into the whole... Went into the blues thing sort of in the mid sort of 2000s around.

Brian Funk (05:48.685)

Cool.

Mike Nikou (06:07.578)

2006 or thereabouts. I really started getting heavily into blues Stevie Ray Vaughan, John Mayer was heavily into things like sort of Steely Dan, Boz Skaggs and a lot of that sort of late seventies what they call Yacht Rock, I guess you could say and sort of went heavily into that and that became a strong focus for me for a number of years. I started doing some advanced

Brian Funk (06:25.598)

Hehehe.

Mike Nikou (06:33.722)

Jazz guitar and things like that had a mentor for a while which really helped me And he actually is got me on to back then Cubase, which is what led me into the whole production Mixing side of things. I'd always had you know, just sort of like your basic four tracks or just you know, sort of analog style recording devices and and then yeah, he sort of showed me Cubase which was back then was mostly known for

synths and kind of just the whole production. It was a really strong production suite. I used it for mixing a lot and I, to this day, I'm still a heavy Cubase user. It's my primary DAW. I have used Pro Tools a lot over the years. I've often run two setups where I've got both Mac and PC and have, you know, Cubase and Pro Tools as an option. But yeah, that's where I sort of started getting right in heavily into the...

production side of things mixing not only my own recordings, but you know friends, know, they would send me their tracks or I'd take the laptop and we'd tinker around and I really found myself becoming heavily into the recording side of things and mixing. It was always something I was really, really interested in. I think the first time I was in a studio with my first band and we recorded like a four track EP.

I just remember the, the, just the idea of being in the studio and seeing the console and just hearing everything come together. And I guess back then, like in the mid nineties, I just remember the whole mix down thing was kind of a bit of an afterthought. I think it's become much more of a thing now, but it was kind of just something. I mean, what we did was like at the end of the day, you'd finished tracking. And I remember the engineer was like, okay, we're ready for mix down now. And I was like, well,

you know, what's, what's mixed down as such. And then once I realized that's the stage where you actually start, you know, piecing everything together and adding the reverb and the compression and all of the hearing it come together. And I remember being like just absolutely, you know, fascinated with, with that process. Um, and yeah, and to this day, I think, uh, you know, since officially starting my, business back in 2015 formally, um,

Mike Nikou (08:56.706)

and just being heavily involved in that sort of mixing and mastering side of things. It's been a great journey. And to this day, like I'm still, I just love, I love what I do. It's the fact that I get to listen to new music every day and be involved in it. For me, it's, yeah, it's not a job as such. It's just a lifestyle. Music is just something I've always done, like I said, as far back as I can remember. And it's just...

It's just what I do, I guess.

Brian Funk (09:29.547)

Hmm. That's cool. A lot of parallels to what I did myself playing in bands and same sort of influences and, yeah, not, really knowing what we were doing, but figuring it out. And even just those playing around with the old tape recorders, something me and my friends used to like to do a lot as kids. and I can remember.

Mike Nikou (09:37.05)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (09:57.085)

We, a friend of mine and I were recording these just really silly songs that we were making up. There's just guitar and he would sing and mostly scream into the little like rectangular cassette tape recorder you're talking about. But sometimes we would record it and it would be ferocious. It would, we'd be overdriving the, we'd be saturating tape, you know, and all that. And other times we record it it was so weak sounding and we, we had no idea why.

Mike Nikou (10:06.884)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (10:24.406)

didn't make any sense to us. But that started getting me interested in it. not too long after I got like a cassette four track recorder and started doing little things with that. And that's how I got going too. And yeah, it's what you said about mixing is I remember that as well. The first time we ever played, recorded ourselves in a studio was.

Mike Nikou (10:36.152)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (10:48.746)

we, our guitar teacher knew a guy that had a basement studio, which was unusual back then and around probably like 1997.

Mike Nikou (10:58.234)

Yeah, so we grew up in the same era, so I think we're a similar age, so we went through that same lineage as such.

Brian Funk (11:01.738)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (11:06.476)

Yeah, yeah, we were like seniors in high school and we were recording our CD, know, four song CD and it was so fun. Like we, we felt like we made it, you know, we were just paying this guy to use his basement, but we were like, this is incredible. And it sounded so much better than our four track tapes. Yeah, really just.

Mike Nikou (11:12.014)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (11:17.976)

It's exciting.

Mike Nikou (11:27.822)

Yeah, definitely. It's a, remember that, that sense of, thinking, you know, wow, we can only, we can only accept this kind of sound. Now, like, think once you've been in a studio and you've actually gone through that formal process and the high quality equipment, and then you sort of come back to your own recordings, like four tracks or whatever, and you're like, we can't accept anything less than like a studio sound. And like I said, for me, it was

It really just started that obsession with recording quality. think even as a kid, I think I had an obsession with like the sound of a record as well. I I listened to a lot of, you know, even things like Michael Jackson. I just think that the sounds of the records were like, man, there's just this sound, the clarity, the... And then when like the CDs became, you know, the main...

way for people to consume music. And then it was like, wow, well, you know, records and tape sounded good, but CDs are a whole nother level. then it sort of, yeah, just that obsession with the sound quality. I think that's something that's always been consistent. I mean, I remember tinkering around with the EQ on the home Hi-Fi system and learning that the smiley face EQ curve even back then, oh, that's a cool sound, you know? So I think I even, had that,

Brian Funk (12:28.372)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (12:45.599)

Okay.

Mike Nikou (12:50.97)

I don't know, just had an obsession with that.

Brian Funk (12:55.572)

Yeah, yeah, I would use that to try to hear instruments like this is like this particular frequency. I didn't even know it was a frequency. It was just, you know, one of those little sliders that you'd make the smiley face on. I was like, this is where the guitar is. And I can like figure out the guitar part a little better if I turn this one up and turn that one down and sort of isolated, I guess.

Mike Nikou (13:07.023)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (13:18.7)

Yeah. Well, I mean, I remember we had like, like a four band EQ on our home, you know, stereo system growing up. And I remember thinking, man, if I only had just a few more of those little sliders, I could, I could do more with that.

Brian Funk (13:29.836)

Yeah, right, and here we are.

Mike Nikou (13:34.114)

Yeah, and here we are. Yeah, we got infinite sliders now.

Brian Funk (13:38.356)

It gives you an appreciation though, right? Like going through that and then when you get into Cubase and you understand how much power you have because you've experienced those four tracks and, you know, kind of really simple setups that we had to deal with.

Mike Nikou (13:56.161)

for sure. And I think the challenge nowadays is to, you know, it's kind of like that kid in a candy store thing. You've really, over the years, I've learned that simplicity has so much value when, whether you're recording, mixing, or whatever it may be. think, you know, when I first started out, I think everyone goes through that phase of collating plugins and just getting everything you can get and trying everything. And, you know, it's an obsession in that respect as well. Like just,

it's infinite choices and over the years it's I've seen myself gradually just move away from so many of them and just having simple high quality EQ or something that has a very specific sound I think is more of my approach now like I'm very conscious of that whole plug-in overload thing

And if that's something I can tell anyone that's recording or mixing their own music is really learn what you're doing and why you're doing it. because there's, there's no need to just dump a bunch of plugins on something because you've heard that someone has a chain with 16 plugins and they got that sound through that method. so that's, yeah, I think it definitely gives you that appreciation having that background in where we didn't.

have the choices and when you do have a lot of choices you go through that phase of yeah I think it's just a process isn't it.

Brian Funk (15:30.976)

Hmm. Because back in those days you dreamed of, if I only had this, if I only had that, I, mean, I had a rack mount reverb and a rack mount compressor, which is actually behind me. still get the, the Alesis Microverb 3 and, and then the, 3630 compressor. And I could only either.

Mike Nikou (15:37.818)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (15:44.984)

Yeah, nice.

Wow, that's a classic.

Brian Funk (15:59.604)

run it directly through and record the effect printed. Or if I had it on an aux channel, that was it. You could only really work with it in that level. And I'm realized, you know, now years later after going through all that, trying to download every plugin I could find and, you know, navigate the dark alleys of the internet to get them all. that

Mike Nikou (16:25.443)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (16:29.671)

is kind of a better approach a lot of times because when you have too many things go on, you just can't suss it out in your brain. You just hear a wall of noise and mush most of the time.

Mike Nikou (16:44.41)

Yeah, and I think limitations are actually a benefit to creativity because it actually forces you to be creative. Whereas when you have too many options, you're focused more about, how can I utilize this piece of equipment or how can I utilize that plugin? And I've bought this thing and I really want to use that in this song. Whereas if you don't have any of that, you're thinking about your song, you're focused on the song and you're like, well, I've only got this to use and I have to make it work.

And I really think that, especially at the creative stage, I think when you're writing and composing and arranging something.

the less you have, I really think that helps the creative process. I think, mean, even if, you know, like if you're in the electronic music space where you've got infinite synths and things like that, I think even just limiting yourself to maybe a couple of hardware synths to, it forces you to focus on, well, this is what I can get out of this instrument. And you just...

It just limits you in that respect and prevents you from going off on tangents, which ultimately just kills the vibe a lot of the time because you're no longer focusing on the inspiration that led you to want to make the song. You're focusing on, or how can I use this compressor or how can I use this instrument or whatever it may be. I think limitations have some value.

Brian Funk (18:16.777)

Yeah, it's, I think I bought some of these synths around me for the sound and you know, have something tactile to play with. But I'm starting to feel that maybe one of the best features of them is that I don't have multiple copies of them. So I can't do seven tracks of this synth unless I commit first and then record another track. Whereas if I open up any plugin or...

Mike Nikou (18:34.074)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (18:39.46)

Yes.

Brian Funk (18:44.123)

you know, can have 32 different versions of the same synth on different tracks and be stacking them and thinking I'm making complex sounds by layering things together. And, like you said, kind of never moving forward. I've got maybe like a cool riff or something or a cool loop. And now I'm just dressing it up and dressing it up and dressing it up instead of moving to the next part, the next section maybe, or, and

Mike Nikou (19:11.705)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (19:12.873)

When I do that, I find it almost impossible to build another section because I've got this super deluxe thing going on for four, eight, 16 bars. And then the next thing is nothing. It's like a kick and a snare. Like it sounds so weak and doesn't feel connected.

Mike Nikou (19:24.346)

Mmm.

Mike Nikou (19:34.451)

for sure. And I think with modern recordings, and a lot of people have adopted that mindset of, we'll fix it in the mix. And so the concept of committing is now, it's scary to a lot of people because they want the options. They want to know that, you know, we can mangle the sound in any way that we want, and we can manipulate it. We can do whatever we want with it.

you know, with plugins or whatever it may be. And I think what often happens is, you know, they'll maybe try 20 or 30 different approaches for a particular sound and get to the mix. And they're like, Hey, we didn't quite get what we wanted through, you know, this part of the production. We're hoping you can do X, Y, and Z in the mix. And I think then you're putting yourself in a position where it's hard to be happy with the mix because you're not happy with the recording.

So my philosophy is if you are able to commit to a sound, take the time to maybe try out, if you're recording guitars for example, get the amp sounding how you want it to sound, get the right strings on your instrument, get the right pedals or whatever it may be, and just experiment there. And once you get that to a point where you're like, okay, I'm happy to hit record now.

I think there's so much value in that because if you're happy with the recorded sound, the mix is going to be even better. Like it's going to be next level again, because you're already happy with maybe what you've already got. You might even have a, like a rough mix that you're really happy with. And then it becomes, Hey, we really need to only improve this maybe by 10%. And then, but that 10 % is, is just a phenomenal level. So I think, yeah.

the concept of committing. I tell this to a lot of people that I work with that get into the habit of experimenting when you're recording and committing to a sound and get it to a point where you're like, you know what? I really, I really liked that. And I'm really happy with where that sits.

Brian Funk (21:53.161)

Hmm. Well, every sound kind of informs the next sound, right? And you're building stuff to work together. So when you do make those commitments, if I say sequence some drums and I print them to audio, I now have to make everything work with that. Whereas when I don't commit, can maybe, okay, I got a cool beat and then I, this bass is really neat, but I'm going to have to do something to the drums now to make it fit.

Mike Nikou (21:59.236)

It does.

Mike Nikou (22:07.77)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (22:11.962)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (22:21.266)

and then you fix the drums and your keyboard's all out of whack now. So you gotta change that and everything gets affected. But reacting to what you have, I find is, yeah, much better way as well. And you can actually.

Mike Nikou (22:29.135)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (22:35.15)

And it's very easy to fall into that wall of sound nowadays because of the infinite choices. It's very easy for things to quickly become just mush. And I think once you've done a few recordings and maybe you've had a bit of experience, I think you start understanding what true dynamics is and what creating space means.

Once you start learning that the kick drum occupies this particular space in the frequency domain, the guitars are going to take up this sort of area. The vocals need to sit in this other area. So think once you start learning about where things fit in the grand scheme of things, I think that's when you really start progressing to a level where

not only maybe you're writing and arranging, but you're thinking about, I know that these synths are going to take up a lot of space. So I need to make sure that those tonally allow the vocals to come through or whatever it may be. it's, yeah, I think once you start getting to that level, then you really start understanding how dynamics works and just how.

not just with arrangements, with the sound and how all of the frequencies fit together.

Brian Funk (24:09.352)

when I was doing my first years and years of recording. You know, I wanted everything to be huge or whatever. I wanted my guitar to be thick and heavy. So I'd be turning bass up on everything and probably soloing and listening like, yeah, listen to that guitar. You know, huge and then hit the bass. And then you put it all together and it's like, it sounds weak. Like what happened here?

Mike Nikou (24:16.451)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (24:35.146)

that revelation of understanding that they have to all work together. And I started thinking of the entire frequency spectrum, like a canvas that a painter might have. And I can't paint my house and my tree and my river all in this one corner. You know, I have to spread things out and give them their space. And that made a huge difference when my guitar sounded bigger when I actually...

Mike Nikou (24:44.783)

Yes.

Mike Nikou (24:55.8)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (25:02.386)

let them have less space and let other things support it.

Mike Nikou (25:07.234)

Yeah, it's really, it's phenomenal what you can actually do with less sometimes. Like I'm using an example of, you know, music I grew up listening to, like when I think about bands that were an inspiration to me, like, you know, whether it's Smashing Pumpkins or Green Day or whatever it is. I mean, Green Day were a three-piece band and they sound huge. Okay. Yes, there were double and triple tracks of the guitar, but it sounded absolutely massive. You know, and I remember reading an article,

long time ago where Billy Corgan from, you know, the pumpkins was talking about, when they recorded some tracks in melancholy and he was like, well, that track has got 60 rhythm guitar tracks on it. And I remember thinking, well, that's, you know, that's the answer. That's the answer to a big sound. We've got to just, we've got to have like 50 guitar tracks to make it sound like that. But without understanding that those tracks may be, there might be a minuscule of it.

Brian Funk (25:53.715)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (26:06.948)

blended in in a certain higher octave or whatever it is. And then you sort of compare that to like say a Green Day where they were tracking with a much simpler setup, but it still sounds equally as big. So there are different ways I think to get a similar result as well. And really comes down to your identity and your philosophy on recording and how you naturally perform as well. think that's

I think that's something people should always look at if you're a band and you're playing live. mean, what do you actually sound like when you're on stage and you're performing? What do you actually sound like? And I think it's easy for, you know, when you're in the studio, it's easy to say, well, let's add another 10 guitars. Are you going to be able to reproduce that? That was something I was always worried about in the bands I played. I was like, we can't reproduce that live. There's no point adding all of these extra

Brian Funk (26:51.604)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (27:02.146)

sounds because I just remember always having, you know, that thought process of, we have to be able to somehow reproduce it live. And it's a different thing altogether, of course. But I think philosophically, I think that's where, you know, a lot of modern bands struggle because they do often record these elaborate tracks, which has made them heavily reliant on backing tracks now. Excuse me. A lot of the big

artists that are performing now are completely reliant on backing tracks. and I, I, not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's just, it's different, I guess.

Brian Funk (27:41.802)

Yeah, I don't think I'm a big fan of it, actually. Generally speaking, of course. And I'm like an Ableton Live guy. I love that stuff. And, you know, I use Ableton Live to perform. But in the rock band situation, I don't have a lot of interest in it. I don't like that it forces you to a click.

Mike Nikou (27:47.961)

Mm.

Brian Funk (28:11.771)

I don't, I get an uneasy feeling when I see a band and I don't know what I'm hearing. You know, like I see, okay, there's these four people playing, but where's that sound coming from? And where's that? I don't know if that's really what they're playing. And it just makes you start wondering if you're really hearing anything after a while. Are they singing? Is because there's another track, there's all these harmonies and

Mike Nikou (28:28.911)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (28:37.486)

Yeah. And it's, it's almost become the, the, the standard way that bands operate now. you know, everything is done via in-ear monitoring. Everything is done to a click. Often you're, you don't know if you're hearing a recorded, vocal or a live vocal. I dunno, I think part of it maybe comes from perhaps in some cases, they're not as rehearsed as maybe they need to be. Maybe they need.

those tracks to actually make it sound, you know, palatable, I guess, for the audience. Because I think once you strip everything down and say you're a three piece or a four piece, you know, people are expecting you to sound a certain way. You know, if you've put records out and you're promoting that record and you're touring, people have an expectation of what they're coming to see. And I think that's where maybe the pressure has come in because people have geared more towards that more elaborate

Brian Funk (29:29.768)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (29:37.048)

recording, layered, multiple vocals. You know, they're in a situation where they have to use them just to portray something similar to what they've put out there in the world, I guess.

Brian Funk (29:50.186)

It could also be our heritage being, we've lived through this. Well, I mean, I think of like Milli Vanilli when they were exposed or even more recently, still a while ago now, but Ashley Simpson. She was on Saturday Night Live and they queued the wrong track or something.

Mike Nikou (29:55.662)

Yeah, maybe it's that. Maybe we're just too old.

Mike Nikou (30:03.321)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (30:11.482)

Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Brian Funk (30:18.085)

You know, she'd like kind of danced around, but and that like killed her career. Same thing with Millie Vanilla. And now I just don't think anyone would care. I'd be like, they just started the wrong track. Who cares? like back then there was some, I guess we didn't, we weren't, we hadn't accepted it as much, you know, like now we kind of know if I'm going to watch someone perform at the Superbowl. I'm not really hearing them perform. This is a very, and like you said too, so much of the production and this

Mike Nikou (30:43.151)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (30:47.345)

makes sense to me. It's gotten so elaborate that people want to hear it like they know it. So if it's too stripped down.

Mike Nikou (30:53.028)

They do. Yeah, I think more and more people, definitely more and more people seem to have, audiences seem to have an expectation. They want to hear the record when they pay tickets to a show. you know, I don't know. It feels that people want to hear the record more. And I think they feel like they're not getting their money's worth unless they hear, whereas I don't know.

Growing up in a time where you didn't know what bands were going to do. I think that was the excitement. I think you would, you would go see a band. mean, you love their album and you think, I hope they play this song. you know, like I was a big fan of counting crows for many years and I really love their, I mean, as a live band, they are a completely different animal. Like they are not, they, they are completely freeform to a degree, even to the point where, you know,

the singer Adam Duritz is he almost just goes on these poetic tangents and it's each night is different. And I don't know. I find that interesting and exciting to go to a show where, okay, yeah, you've got some songs you'd love to hear. But I think part of a show is, you know, you're not a hundred percent sure maybe what, what they're going to do. And I find that that was always exciting. I mean, there was some

acts where you thought, you know, if they play this song, it has to sound a certain way. And you might be disappointed if they didn't hit the mark, so to speak. But overall, I think even now, if I go to a show, I'm hoping that I'm going to see the group or whoever it is do something interesting, maybe something that's not necessarily how it is on the album. And I find that far more exciting than just...

paying tickets to go see a show where it's just going to sound exactly like the recording. I'm not sure what the appeal of that is, but it seems, guess a lot of people do have that attachment to it now.

Brian Funk (32:57.539)

To bring up Billy Corgan again, I think I read an interview with him in Guitar World in the 90s where he said, I don't want to hear a band sound exactly like the album. I have the album. I want to hear something different. I want to have a new experience with that. kind of echoing what you're saying. And I think in the example of the Counting Crows too, I get the sense just by the way he sings that his vocal performances are probably pretty

Mike Nikou (33:07.01)

Yeah

Mike Nikou (33:13.882)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (33:27.657)

like malleable, you know, that he's kind of riffing. And I think a lot of the records are probably just what he was doing that day.

Mike Nikou (33:38.479)

that day. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's exactly what it would have been. And I don't think they would have ever played a song the same way twice. He probably had slightly different lyrics, like you said, depending on what he was feeling on that day. And just that ability to interchange and just work on the fly. I think that's, it's pretty cool.

Brian Funk (33:53.577)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (34:01.969)

Yeah. And that would be what I'd want to see him do. I much the way if I was going to see, I don't know, like Eric Clapton play, I don't need him to be note for note on the grid, you know, click track to what he, I want to see him just play guitar in real life, you know, in real time and reacting. but yeah, I guess.

Mike Nikou (34:15.139)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (34:23.054)

Yeah, definitely.

Brian Funk (34:31.077)

That might, I wonder if that is a product of production that we've just kind of got now that we want this live performance to be on par sonically, you know, of similar quality and also just, I want it to sound like what I know.

Mike Nikou (34:43.194)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (34:46.65)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (34:52.12)

Yeah. And I think, because we've created this ecosystem of, everything being reliant on what's in the computer as well. I think now that the computer is now what used to be the, you know, the big recording console and all of the equipment, like the computer is really the hub of everything, whether you're, you know, tracking, you know, analog instruments, guitars, or synths, that the computer is the hub.

and we've created an ecosystem where everything exists within that virtual world. And so we've become reliant on how that all works. there aren't too many performers now where the whole show is not really run by some sort of laptop or multiple laptops, whether it's the, you know, the backing tracks, the lighting, whatever it is. you know, everything, it comes back to that central hub of the computer.

And I think that's just where everything exists now. And so it's to recreate a lot of those complex layered recordings now, it's almost impossible because you'd be in a situation where you'd probably need a 15 piece band to, if someone was individually playing all of those parts, then I just don't know how it would practically work. And kudos to those.

artists out there that are actually, you know, in a position where they're able to bring out, you know, a string section or multiple keyboard players, whatever it may be. think, you know, good on you for giving it a shot from that side of things and trying to recreate your elaborate recording in a live sense. You know, there aren't too many that are doing it now. I mean, it's the economies of scale with how music works makes it very difficult to justify.

that sort of cost as well. think that's a big part of where things are at now. think so many things are cost prohibitive in the modern music world. Whilst the entry level is, you know, it's very easy to get into it now. You can buy a cheap laptop. You can get a free door. You can get some free plugins and you can get up and running quick. think that's one of the best things that has

Mike Nikou (37:18.262)

evolved over the years is that creative people and musicians and artists now have a much lower barrier to entry. So there's, you don't have to save up thousands and thousands of dollars just to get some basic equipment. You can get up and running for a very low entry fee now. So, and I, so I think for anyone that's creative to be able to actually be creative without having to spend thousands of dollars. think that's one thing where

that's evolved over the years. think the whole gatekeeping side of things has changed the way the industry works. think it's, anyone can work now. You can create music at home. You can create it with your friends in a basement, whatever it may be. You know, it's an open platform for people to access now fairly easily.

Brian Funk (38:08.358)

It is a really cool thing. even just for beginners opening up GarageBand or anything like that, even on the phone, I you're already as well, like at such a standard of quality above where you, we could ever get with our four tracks right out of the gate. So it's encouraging. it's, I really hope that that

makes people make more stuff, make more art. Because I do worry, and I think we talked a little bit about this right before we hit record, just how times have changed and we're so distracted by those very same devices that give us all this power. Because I've, I've wondered if I would have learned guitar if I was coming up now, you know, to struggle through it, you know, the not be able to do it. doesn't sound good. My fingers hurt and

Mike Nikou (38:39.674)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (39:00.026)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (39:07.368)

I could have got a nice dopamine release on Instagram instead. So I hope.

Mike Nikou (39:11.706)

Hmm. Well, that's the challenge for young people nowadays. I think that's, you know, deciding on where they're going to focus their energies. mean, for someone that is inclined to learn guitar, mean, the resources that are available for free now are absolutely phenomenal. Phenomenal. Could you imagine if we had YouTube when we were kids and you wanted to learn the solo from Sultans of Swing, which I spent years, you know, sitting on the end of my bed, stopping the tape.

Brian Funk (39:36.018)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (39:40.667)

press play, I think that note sounds like that, play it 50 billion times. I think that's right, but it was maybe completely wrong. But whereas now you can get to a certain level. I mean, I speak to people that say, yeah, you know, I started playing guitar three months ago and they're kind of already at a level where, so I guess they've been able to bypass a lot of those years of struggle to a degree and get to a certain, for the, just for the information.

Brian Funk (40:06.226)

for the information especially. Yeah.

Mike Nikou (40:09.39)

so I think if that can shorten the, the time that it takes for you to get to a certain level, and if you're motivated to do that, I think the tools that are available now are far ahead of what we had, you know, growing up, it was just wasn't, it wasn't available. The information wasn't there. You had to really dig. You had to find books. You had to find maybe a video that was available to rent at the store or something, to learn about something. So it's...

I think if you are a motivated person to do that, the resources are readily available at no cost now. So, but like you were saying, the trick is, can a lot of young people even be bothered? Like they can get that quick dopamine hit on the socials. They can do all of that stuff and it's, be a real minefield for people to navigate, I think, particularly young kids that are in school and whatnot.

to sort of decide where they want to divide their time and what they want to dedicate their time to because the distractions would just be endless nowadays.

Brian Funk (41:21.731)

Yeah. And as much as it's given us a platform where we can share our stuff, get our stuff out there, it seems to have made us consumers so much more. I can definitely speak for myself. I mean, there's just so much information I take in every day and so many people's YouTubes or channels or Instagrams and that I just, really enjoy it.

Mike Nikou (41:40.282)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (41:49.926)

But I spend as much time probably watching and learning and listening about music as I do making it.

Mike Nikou (42:00.783)

Yeah, for sure. think everyone's in that same situation now. think, I mean, yeah, whether it's YouTube or whatever it may be, I think there are so many rabbit holes to go down now that it's just so easy to, fly off on all sorts of tangents. I think it's great from an information side of things. I mean, I love learning new things. I think it's, it's always enjoyable to learn about something new and the fact that we can easily do that now with very little

Brian Funk (42:13.927)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (42:22.235)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (42:30.596)

cost investment as such. I think that's one thing that's really changed, I think, because it wasn't too long ago where you had to really decide on, you know, what you want to invest in, whether it's your time or your money. You had to be pretty selective because once you were committed and you paid for it, you better make sure you got the value out of it. Whereas now I think you can sort of dabble in all sorts of different things, whether you're into music or cooking or...

Brian Funk (42:53.607)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (42:57.454)

Cars or whatever it may be I think you can easily dabble and learn about things and be like, yeah You know, I've I've watched a bunch of videos on that. I'm not sure that's for me So you can kind of get to a certain level and I think maybe fine-tune your Your interests and and maybe find things that you didn't know that you liked and I think that's but then it gets back to that distraction side of things does it create a situation where everyone is kind of

I don't know, like not so much a jack of all trades, but you know, just sort of mediocre at everything because there are so many different things we're doing now that it takes an extraordinary amount of discipline to stay focused on one thing. So that maybe that's an opportunity for people now. I think those people that do choose to, to specialize as such, that's where the opportunity is perhaps.

Brian Funk (43:51.612)

I think you're probably right. That is a hard thing to come by somebody that is, and it's hard for me even just, and even within music, it's hard. It's hard for me to pick the one plugin I'm going to learn really well or the one technique or even the one genre of music I'm going to play today. Those are hard decisions and sometimes crippling and it's not because I don't want to do it.

Mike Nikou (44:05.454)

Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Funk (44:18.599)

because I want to do it all. And now I have access. It used to just be, I got a guitar and I got a friend that plays drums. So let's make music. Not anymore.

Mike Nikou (44:28.1)

Yeah. I mean, the whole information overload thing is a real thing now. Like even if we do localize it back to music, it's very easy to just be completely distracted and overwhelmed by the choices that we have just through the, you know, the setups that we've created for ourselves now. And it is something that I actively try to remind myself of. Even when we're

talking about things like, you know, sort of mixing and mixing templates. and I think that's where I think people make the mistake of thinking that a template is something where we can bunch all of our plugins onto it and we can apply those amazing plugins to everything. Whereas I really try to, and I've done a few videos on it where it's like a toolkit, like a plumber's toolkit. You know, you're a plumber term turns up to a job and they're not going to use every

you know, they're not going to use like the same wrench for every job or whatever it is. Like they have a certain set of things, tools that they trust that they know can, can do a certain job. And that's something that I really try to employ when it comes to mixing is, the templates that I use are just having my tools available without me having to search through the menu and add, like everything is always loaded in bypass cause

You want to hear the raw tracks. You don't want to hear any of the plugins. And once I've kind of built the session, then I'll remove a bunch of things. You know, like I might be like, okay, I don't need any of those plugins for this track. We can get rid of that. Even with things like routing, Cubase has got a really cool new feature where you drop the audio tracks in a folder and that folder is automatically routed to whatever bus you've set it to.

Like say, so if you've got, like I was mixing a track last week that had 80 backing vocal tracks just for backing vocals. So I was able to, I was able to drop those vocal tracks into a folder labeled, you know, backing vocals. And that's automatically routed to my backing vocal bus. So, whereas previously you would have to go into the, like you'd have to bring up the mixing view and you'd have to highlight all of the tracks, you know, right click.

Brian Funk (46:27.355)

you

Brian Funk (46:33.703)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (46:48.61)

route them to, you know, whatever bus you want to, but it's done automatically. Now you literally just dump the audio files in the folder and providing that folder is routed correctly in your template, it's ready to go. So that's a huge game changer, literally just came out, I think last month in the latest version of Cubase. So even things like that, from an efficiency side of things, it forces me to focus on what I need to focus on because

Like I said, with the whole template side of things, I will remove a bunch of plugins that I don't need because I know I'm not going to use them. So that's really something that I try to actively remind myself of. Excuse me. When I'm going through the whole mixing stage, I'm trying to remind myself of, you know, what do I actually need here? What tools do I need? What tools can I trust? And what tools are going to get me the result that I'm looking for?

Brian Funk (47:49.159)

Right, I love that plumber analogy. I think I heard you talk about that in one of your videos, but it is true. you got the stuff you need for most situations, right? And yes, the goal is not to use every wrench I've got in my toolbox. You take the one that's gonna fit.

Mike Nikou (47:55.962)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (48:06.148)

Hmm. It's funny because I scroll through, yeah, I scroll through my plugins sometimes and I come across one and I'm like, wow, I forgot I had that plugin. That's a great plugin. I might use that one day. It's, but yeah, like I've really tried to consciously gravitate towards my go-to tools and I feel that it's helped me create even better mixes or masters, whatever it may be.

Brian Funk (48:19.334)

You

Mike Nikou (48:36.874)

I think it's just helped refine the process because you know what you're getting as well and you know how to get what you want out of it. I think that's part of the battle. think you might say, I've got a vision for the sound of this track, but knowing how to get what's in your head, that's the challenge. And I think that's what's taken years, I think, to get to that point where, you know, I hear a track and I'm like, yeah, I know what we need to do there.

this is what I need to employ to get that sound. And that takes a long time. Like I said, I started, you know, formally doing this back in 2015, but it's taken this number of years to get to that point where I think, you know, I have that confidence that I can say, you know, I can, I can achieve the sound that I hear in my head.

Brian Funk (49:24.294)

That kind of reminds me again, something from our shared experience where you and I would buy a piece of gear back in the day and you were kind of stuck with it, right? You couldn't send it back to Amazon and they, you could order, I needed a distortion pedal recently. I ordered three and sent two back, you like, you learned your equipment. You learned it. You understood it. And

Mike Nikou (49:38.542)

Hmm. Yeah.

Mike Nikou (49:53.732)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (49:54.831)

That's something that has been a huge help for me inside the DAW is to get used to certain plugins and get used to how they work and how they respond. And then learning like, this is good for this. This does a nice job here. I think probably a lot of the old gear that we kind of put on a pedestal these days and there's all these recreations you can download of. I mean, a lot of it is really amazing, but I think

Part of it is because the people spent time with it and learned how to pull those sounds out and where they excelled. And that is, I think, part of the legendary status is learning the gear because, I mean, as I've said, I've scoured the dark alleys of the internet when I first got my computer to find every plugin and I would get all these really interesting things of old gear and not understand why this was such a great plugin.

Mike Nikou (50:27.256)

Mmm.

Mike Nikou (50:52.026)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (50:53.124)

Like, okay, what's the big deal about this? Cause I didn't know how to use it. didn't know what I was doing with any of this stuff. But when you spend a little time with something and understand its function and how to use it, I find that to be the most important thing to have is that understanding of how to use it rather than which one, which DAW, which plugin, it's more the one you know. That's the one.

Mike Nikou (51:18.446)

Yeah, absolutely. And I've learned over the years why certain pieces of equipment or plugins are as famous as they are. I've, you know, I'm confident now in most cases I can get whatever I need with just an 1176 and LA2A, a Manly Massive Passive, you know, maybe a BaxEQ. And so these, once you learn how these tools work properly,

They are that good because they can do so much and you can get what you need very quickly. you know, it took a long time to really learn, you know, just the intricacies of even something as simple as an 1176 compressor and how that works. Once you really understand what it's doing. I think that the turning point for me was when I realized I could hear compression.

In the early days, like, yeah, think it's that compressor sounds cool. And then once you can actually hear what compression is, you understand attack, release and ratio and how that all works. And you can hear it. Like, you know, if you can hear an eight to one ratio versus a two to one, and you know what it's doing, that's when I felt the game really changed for me because I could impart that sound whenever I needed to.

and I knew how to get that sound. that was, and it gets back to what you were saying about learning your equipment, whether it's a distortion plugin or, you know, whatever it may be. Once you have that in-depth understanding of it, you know how to get what you need out of it. And then it becomes a genuine tool.

Brian Funk (53:04.614)

Well then you can also stay in that flow a bit better, you're not trying to figure out how this thing works.

Mike Nikou (53:08.995)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (53:13.036)

the worst thing for creativity is to, you know, be tinkering around with something to get it working. There's nothing worse. There's nothing that will kill a vibe more than like, you know, trying to figure out a pedal. Like, I even when you're rehearsing with the band, there's nothing worse than you're getting in a flow and someone's got a problem with their new pedal that they bought and everyone just stops playing and like, okay. And it's...

Brian Funk (53:19.162)

there.

Brian Funk (53:36.309)

Yeah, it's like,

Mike Nikou (53:41.605)

It makes a big difference. You know, I remember one time we were rehearsing and our bass player had just bought this really expensive new bass rig. And he wheeled it into the rehearsal room and he set it up in the corner and turned it on. And it was like at a really low setting, but the entire rehearsal room, all we heard was bass guitar. And we were like, man, we can't even hear the drums properly. All we can hear is that thumping of that bass.

Brian Funk (53:43.546)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (54:03.865)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (54:10.54)

And the whole rehearsal session was just basically him calibrating the bass guitar. But yeah, look, it's amazing how that sort of stuff can really, it really affects creativity as well. I really like to try to separate, like if I'm learning a new piece of gear or whatever it is, I try to dedicate like, okay, so what I'm doing today is I'm figuring this thing out.

Brian Funk (54:16.323)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (54:39.578)

It's not a creative session, it's a tinkering session or it's a learning session. think being able to segment that and separate things. I think that's really important even when you're recording and producing, being able to separate when you start the mix and when you've decided that the mix is complete before you go to mastering, think separating those phases, you know,

the recording stage, if you're still arranging and you still haven't decided on whether or not that second verse works or whatever it is, maybe you're not a hundred percent ready to formally record. Maybe you're still demoing. But I think having that, you know, that conscious approach of, okay, we understand we're not ready to record yet. We're still demoing or, you know, we're not ready to master yet because the mix is not quite where we want it. And I think just,

Yeah. Separating things, I think is a huge benefit in that when it, whether it's from when you're learning something as opposed to, you know, when you're mastering a final record.

Brian Funk (55:44.358)

Right. You kind of know. It's nice to decide to, and I mean, I go, I do both ways, right? Like, cause a lot of times when I'm writing, I'm producing, I'm mixing, I'm doing it all at once. I don't, I might not even have the idea yet. I'm just, and I guess you would say that's kind of demoing. but most of the time that becomes the final thing anyway. But when it's something maybe like with the band I play in.

where we have the song, we know what we're doing, it's already kind of put together, that stuff has been figured out. It is very helpful to say, okay, we're done recording stuff now, next. know, we got the guitars, they're done and move on from there. Cause otherwise, yeah, I've done it where like I'm mixing the drums, we recorded the drums and I'm like, getting the drums sound great and they sound awesome now.

I have no headroom for anything else. The bass player comes over and we try to do bass and I gotta undo everything I did anyway. I gotta circle back. I've made the song sound great if it was a drum song only, but it's not.

Mike Nikou (56:51.267)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (56:56.846)

And I think once you're at a certain level of proficiency, like you are, you can blur the lines more easily because you sort of know what the end goal is and you can blend those lines of production. yeah, let's kind of, let's kind of get this sound, you know, whether it's with drums or whatever it may be, you kind of know where you're going with it. And I think that's where it becomes part of that whole fluid process of creativity. And I think

you you definitely have to be at a certain level of proficiency to be able to do that. And it's certainly, you know, it's something that, people can do. Absolutely. It's, I think the separating of the task is definitely helpful if you're even at an intermediate stage, maybe where you're still finding your identity as well and still finding what your sound is. That's where I think it can be hugely helpful to separate each task.

But yeah, definitely once you're at that, you know, there are many producers that are, you know, at that level where you can be like, you know, I'm kind of writing, I'm kind of arranging, I'm kind of mixing. I've got one ear on the master as well. I'm like, you know, we're sort of lingering around this sort of level of loudness at the moment. I'm pretty sure we can get there by doing X, Y and Z. That's, yeah, that's definitely more, you know, it's a way that you can do it. Absolutely. Once you have that level of proficiency and even that in itself can be,

that can be inspiring to work that way as well. It's different for everyone, guess, isn't it? And whatever level you're at.

Brian Funk (58:30.469)

Yeah, and I think maybe even just styles of music too. Certain styles are more production heavy and more sound dependent and others are more song, that kind of stuff arrangement.

Mike Nikou (58:35.247)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (58:41.754)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (58:48.782)

Yeah, definitely.

Brian Funk (58:50.933)

I guess, I wanted to ask you a little bit about what it's like, for you when you get a song to mix, something comes in, you've kind of mentioned you've got your templates. So you've got like your tools are there kind of almost like the chef to the Misen blasts. Like, you got everything there. what are some of the first things that you do as you're starting to, I'm assuming people will be sending you probably.

Mike Nikou (59:03.224)

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, same concept.

Brian Funk (59:18.885)

The individual tracks maybe stems, but I would imagine you're probably getting everything separate for the most part. Yeah

Mike Nikou (59:24.942)

Yeah, full multi-track is usually what I'd be getting. I love to listen to the rough mix. encourage people to... I mean, if they don't have a rough mix, that's totally fine. I think rough mix for me helps give me a picture of how the artist views themself as well. How they perceive the song, what they prioritize. When I'm listening to the rough mix, you know, I'm listening for...

Okay, well, what's the prominence of this guitar here? Okay, well, that solo there is really important or, and I'm also, I'm really trying to just listen to the song. I mean, that's one thing I find really enjoyable, just sitting back, pressing play and listening to the music for the sake of listening to the music. And what I'm trying to do is connect emotionally with that track to get a feel for...

you know, what is the song making me feel as a, like say if I was listening as a music fan and I was listening to it, what am I feeling? What am I thinking about when I hear it? Does it remind me of, of another song? Does it inspire me in a way where it's like, wow, I think this song would really be great with X, Y, and Z or this type of sound. So that's initially what I'm listening for. And that's a big part of it.

I always like to have a chat to the artist as well and say, Hey, know, what are you, what are you hoping to achieve with this mix? Like, what are your goals? Is it part of a, is it part of an album? Is it part of an EP? What's the overall vibe that you're going for? A bit of a Q and A to try to sort of get a idea of what they're hoping to achieve. That's part of the process. And once I've been through that and I generally tend to

get to a point pretty quickly where I'm like, okay, I definitely know where I want to take this mix. And then it's a process of diving into the individual tracks. you know, I'm looking for, making sure there is no clipped files there where there's distortion or just some abnormalities. If there are any problems with the audio files, I'll sort of go back to the client and say, Hey, I noticed your, your kick drum is clipped on this one. Any chance you could bounce me a fresh

Mike Nikou (01:01:46.181)

version maybe with a little less level or whatever it may be. So I'm looking for, guess at that stage, the technical issues that may be preventative through the mix. A lot of mixing initially is problem solving. It's finding issues. I may hear those issues in the rough mix. I might be like, you know, wow, that the low mids are completely out of control here.

and I can hear that it's coming from the bass guitar or I can hear that it's coming from those two synths that are panned out left and right. So a lot of those things I'm generally hearing pretty early on in the rough mix. And then it's a process of elimination. First thing I like to get my grouping and routing done, with the, you know, like the mixing checklist that I've got there, it actually tells people to sort of number their files and also

almost categorize them. like if it's drums, know, put drum slash snare, drum slash hi-hat, drum slash kick, whatever it may be. So that those are all grouped into, okay, that's all drums, that's percussion, that's acoustic guitars, that's electric guitars. I think that's a huge benefit, I think, you know, from a routing perspective as well, when you're setting up a mix, it would be exactly the same. I think if you were mixing on a massive analog console, you want to set

things up in sort of groups so that you're able to apply maybe your high pass filters to the group as a whole and things like that and shape things in that way. But yeah, that process of elimination is the first part, know, the setting up of the mix, making sure the levels, the whole gain staging thing is really important. Gain staging effects, you know, if you are using plugins, they react differently, dependent on, you know, how much level you're sending to it.

So I have my certain plugins are calibrated to a way where as long as I send them certain amount of gain, I know that they're going to be in the sweet spot as soon as I hit that level. So that's also part of, you know, setting up my template is setting it up. So it's more conducive to correct gain staging as well. I like to route things to group buses and then even to the point where there's an all music bus, there's an all vocals bus.

Mike Nikou (01:04:06.17)

before it hits the master so I can control the instrumental as well as all of the vocals before it hits the master and things like that so but that's definitely the I guess the core components of you know when I'm setting up a mix that that's really critical for me

Brian Funk (01:04:24.42)

Right, so you got to kind of make sure there's nothing too wrong, no problems, maybe clean things if necessary or get them done again. Organization, yeah, that sounds like a huge one. And you mentioned the checklist that you sent over. And I just want to re-mention which I'm sure I said in the intro.

Mike Nikou (01:04:29.562)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:04:47.936)

that you are providing a nice download for people of your mixing and mastering checklist for people. That would be before they send it off, but it's also just great stuff to think about for yourself before you move on to these new phases.

Mike Nikou (01:05:01.57)

It is, yeah. Definitely. It's very easy to, I think, forget about some of those important little tasks. You know, whether you're preparing all of your recorded tracks for mixing, or if you're preparing your final mixes for mastering. Because the other thing we're always looking to do is we're looking at making sure the final masters are presented in a format that is going to last for many years. So, you know, if people are consuming your music and

50 years, 100 years time, whatever it may be, hopefully they are. We want to have audio that is archived to a level where it's going to stand the test of time. So that's something that is really important. So those checklists can be really helpful and just reminding you, you know, to do certain things when you're finalizing your tracks. It can be very helpful, you know, even if you are doing it yourself, it's just a little reminders that can help you get organized.

Brian Funk (01:06:02.808)

Yeah, that's great to have just as almost something to look at every once in a while. So yeah, people can download that and keep that. And maybe if they decide to send you something or send something anywhere really, or just to yourself. there, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of just good advice really for where you are in the process.

Mike Nikou (01:06:21.284)

Yeah, they're very much universal.

Mike Nikou (01:06:30.561)

absolutely. Yeah, it should hopefully be a good help for people.

Brian Funk (01:06:36.292)

You mentioned we have a little checklist I'm kind of reading off here too that we were going to talk about. Some common issues you hear when you get productions. Things people run into. I have some of my own that I'm very aware of. I some reason like to let things build up in that 1 to 2k region. I don't know maybe my hearing is like weak there or something. I tend to emphasize that a lot when I'm mixing.

Mike Nikou (01:06:46.116)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:06:55.748)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:07:04.142)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:07:05.368)

What are some things like you tend to see that maybe we can learn to avoid if possible?

Mike Nikou (01:07:08.574)

yeah, look, I think, I think definitely overall, levels of each individual, you know, audio track, you know, I'm saying like the level of the vocal, making sure that it's, it's not distorting or clipping things like that. That's something that I, I wouldn't say I see it frequently, but when I do see that it's, you know, that's a huge problem. You know, if you're mixing a track and your vocal is clipped,

It's kind of past the point of no return. know, yes, you can use RX and try to de-clip things like that, but it's never going to be the same. So I'm always recommending people to get things as clean as you can to the point where it's not distorting. Crossfades, I think, is something that people can occasionally just miss that when they're bouncing their files out for mixing.

If they've comped a vocal and they've pieced together different parts of different performances, making sure you've got those clean crossfades so you're not hearing the microphone or the cut point where you've edited the audio. That's really important just to get a clean track. also something I do see semi-frequently is when people have recorded a vocal maybe on different days.

Like maybe they've recorded verse one and then come in the following day and recorded verse two or the chorus Have an understanding that your voice has a different timber a different a different sound each day you might wake up one morning and you're just slightly more congested than you were the day before and So then you've got a performance where you've got verse one has a particular sound Maybe you even moved the microphone in a slightly different position

and you've got a different tonality, you know, throughout the song. And that can kind of just subliminally create for the listener a bit of a strange experience. I mean, look, if we were in a situation where I have to fix that during the mix, I'll usually cut up the vocal and put it on different tracks, molt it out, apply different EQ to each verse, just so that we get a nice cohesive sound.

Mike Nikou (01:09:33.627)

That is one of the solutions for that sort of problem, but that can generally be avoided by setting your levels correctly when you're recording and recording everything on the same day. Like say if you're recording a lead vocal, try to get that track done the same day. It's fine if you're recording backing vocals and things like that later. You can stack them. It really doesn't matter. But I think when it's something like a lead vocal, take the time to

get a really cohesive, consistent recording and the results in the mix will be significantly better. That's something that I do see occasionally.

Brian Funk (01:10:14.639)

That is one of the hardest things to do to get the same sound on the next day or sometimes even just later in the day. You take a break and you come back. You might be able to get away with it maybe if you do the chorus and the verse separate, but yeah, if you're trying to... It's something about vocals that there's so many factors, the distance from the mic, the... Like you said...

Mike Nikou (01:10:24.58)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:10:41.722)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:10:43.693)

How are you feeling, your energy level? I agree with you on that. I really do try to make sure that that stuff happens in one shot as best I can.

Mike Nikou (01:10:46.842)

for sure.

Mike Nikou (01:10:54.03)

Hmm. Yeah. I mean, look, the best vocalists I've worked with, you know, when we've done recordings and we've done tracking sessions, they have a defined process. When they come into the studio to record, they have a certain drink that they bring with them. They might have like some warm tea or some lemon water or something. They will only have a certain number of sips before they start. Then they'll wait five minutes and then they'll do a test run to see how they're feeling. But it's a process. won't,

you they were not going to have a lunch break until, because if they eat a certain food, then they're going to have a different, their voice might have a different sound if they, drink a coffee or something. So, you know, the best vocalists, they are completely rigid in their process when it comes to tracking. It's like a, it's a defined process they do every time. It's, they have their own checklist, I guess you could say of how they prepare for a session and

you'd be surprised at how much you can get done once you are organized and you know how you feel and how you work and how to get the best out of yourself. You can come in and do a two or three hour session. You might even be able to track a few songs in that time if you have a process. So it's definitely like if you are a singer and you record your vocals a lot.

I definitely recommend taking the time to work out your process, what works best for you and gets you the results that you want, because that will really give you consistent results that you can repeat each time as well.

Brian Funk (01:12:31.073)

Yeah, yeah, I think that applies to in a lot of ways, just knowing when you're best, what time of day you're fresh and, you know, inspired and stuff. You've got one of the bullet points here is kind of brings us back to something we've been talking about a little bit with the way things have gotten produced and polished over the years. And we got into the live performance aspect.

Mike Nikou (01:12:36.664)

Mm. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:13:00.149)

One of the dangers of that is you can polish away all of the nice stuff. In speaking of vocals, for instance, sometimes you go in there and you're cutting breaths and little things to clean it up. And sometimes there's a lot going on in those breaths. There's a lot of emotion in there.

Mike Nikou (01:13:19.354)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:13:22.445)

how do you approach that? This kind of keeping it, you want it to sound slick, clean or whatever the particular aesthetic is. there's some weird invisible line and it's like a blurry line, kind of like what you were saying too about with Green Day and like Smashing Pumpkins and the difference in recordings where, you know, as you start, as I'm adding like a couple extra guitar overdubs, it sounds really cool. It sounds really, and then like,

Mike Nikou (01:13:37.85)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:13:51.253)

all of sudden something is gone and it didn't happen after that last overdub but along the way. These things get lost, they kind of slip away or fade away or something. How do you approach all that?

Mike Nikou (01:14:04.216)

They do. There's definitely, I think a point you get to where it's almost like you're past the point of no return. Like you've edited something to the point where it's no longer what it was. And I think that's where it's worrying. I think where you look back on a track that you've been working on and you're like, well, this really doesn't sound like what I was doing. And particularly with vocals, if you do start going down that path of editing out breaths and all every little

intricacy of the human voice. It's very hard for the listener to relate to it because we don't sound like that. You know, when we're talking or when we're singing, we don't sound like that. The breaths in particular, that's something that I've really, um, I'm really focused on because that can be the, uh, the dictator of how something actually feels. It's very, I mean, if you listen to some of the most famous recordings,

There are breaths everywhere, huge ones, quiet ones, unnaturally sounding ones, but that's the, I guess that that's the nature of the sound. That's what makes it appealing to people because it's real. And they're like, well, that's a person. And I sound like that too. Or, or, you know, I have that tendency and I think people relate to things that are real. So I think when it comes to polishing your recordings, there's, there's a certain, I mean, it's

Genre dependent as well because sometimes it calls for a unusually polished sound. Sometimes it might be a certain pop track where we do edit out every single breath because we're going for a very specific, almost robotic sound. So that then becomes a creative choice. It's really, I think it really is something that's genre dependent. If you're recording a jazz track or a jazz vocalist, you're not going to touch those breaths.

or any of those little segues into the next vocal passage, whatever it is, you're not going to touch them. You're probably not even going to compress it too much because it's intended to be a highly dynamic recording where there are some super quiet parts and some, some louder parts. You know, maybe you just want to catch the peaks or whatnot, but even when I'm tracking vocals, I prefer to track with little to no compression because I want to capture the character. want

Mike Nikou (01:16:30.092)

as much dynamics as I can get if I'm tracking or recording vocals. It's easy to squash it down the track. We can do that later. That's not a problem. What we can't do is reintroduce dynamics if it's too squashed to begin with. So that's something that I would say to people, particularly at the recording stage, don't feel that you have to use compression to record. I'd rather you use zero compression and just make sure it's not

Brian Funk (01:16:46.592)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:16:59.556)

clipping. Maybe if you've got a compressor that's just grabbing the peaks, but even then it comes down to microphone technique because the best singers know when to pull back from the microphone. If they're belting something out, they know they've got to be further away, but that's a technique thing. That's something completely different. But as for the recording itself, I do think it's largely genre dependent.

And there are certain things, there are certain genres where, like I was saying, using jazz as the example, you just, can't mess with that in that, in that sense. It has to be as human as possible.

Brian Funk (01:17:32.778)

Hmm. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:17:37.792)

Hmm. Right. There's definitely a lot of music you wouldn't want to edit, auto tune, quantize. And sometimes it's exactly what the song calls for too.

Mike Nikou (01:17:44.344)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:17:51.173)

Yeah, I mean, I hear a lot of modern tracks that are, you know, where the singer is absolutely phenomenal, but I can hear Melodyne. I can hear that it's been tuned and I'm like, you don't need it. You don't need it. It's you're already a great singer. Okay. There might be some passages where it's very slightly flat or sharp or whatever it may be. And if it bothers you clean it up, but you you listen to some of the greatest songs of all time and

Brian Funk (01:18:03.403)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:18:19.47)

done by great singers and there's flat notes everywhere. There are sharp notes here and there. And part of that, it's the, I think that's the character of the music. I think even when it is a pop recording, you can sometimes hear where, you know, the singer has, has maybe dropped a little flat in verse two as opposed to verse one. But I think that's what we relate to. You know, as humans, we're listening to music, we're looking for things that we can relate to. And I think those

the more we keep the human element in there. you know, that's really, I think that's what we all want to hear. And that's where I think, you know, AI and that side of things is never really going to be able to, to replicate that. It can't decide whether or not, whether or not something sounds good or bad. can't discern, you know, it can give you a certain sound, but it can't, you know,

make a decision as to whether or not something should be loud or quiet or whatever it may be. think that's where, you know, a lot of people are really concerned about AI and where it's going, but I don't think it's any different to any other tool that's come out in music over the years. You know, people were worried that Pro Tools was going to completely kill off hardware and analog equipment. It's completely not the case.

people still use all of that hardware frequently. So it's not something that's ever going to disappear. think it's just, it's a new technology that's there for people to utilize. And you know, think if it gets people creative, great, but it's never going to be able to do what a human can do as such. It's kind of like, I don't know, I like to use the analogy of

frozen pizza versus a restaurant pizza. I mean, yeah, I mean, frozen pizza, it's still pizza. You can put it in the oven and heat it up and it's still pizza, but it will never be what a restaurant pizza is. that it just, you always like to use the food analogy sometimes I think with, with music and production, like the chef thing. I think there are some very, some strong parallels there. but yeah, a lot of people are worried about the whole AI.

Brian Funk (01:20:25.899)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:20:30.025)

Yeah, a lot of...

Brian Funk (01:20:35.883)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:20:38.776)

side of things. And I really just think it's a new tool where learning what, where, where its place is going to be. You know, I'm hearing that they're going to be changing the way monetization works for AI stuff that's being released on streaming platforms. They're going to be demonetizing a lot of that stuff. think where it's maybe going to be lucrative in the future is artists licensing their likeness. where, you know,

like big company like Warner Brothers or whatever might be able to hire Taylor Swift's likeness to be on a song that she never even has to actually perform in. She never has to go into the studio to learn the song or sing it. They'll just, you know, pay for her likeness and she'll get the royalties. I think that's where I can see that becoming a big avenue for artists down the track, particularly for artists that have gained a certain level.

you know, of popularity, where they're able to monetize their likeness, that I really, genuinely believe that will become a significant income source for those artists that, you know, are able to do that.

Brian Funk (01:21:52.702)

Yeah, that's an interesting angle. That's for sure. I think you have a point though, with a lot of that human stuff that it can analyze and probably through data and probability figure out where those flat notes should be and all, but it doesn't make the decision because it sounds good or it feels good.

Mike Nikou (01:22:04.218)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:22:16.538)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:22:22.241)

And that's a lot, I think, where those decisions happen. even guitar is, I think, a nice example where you've got the frets, right? So you can play the notes, but there's a lot of stuff happening when you bend that string, even just a little, or just the vibrato you add to it. You can come out of tune and create tension. And even if, I still think even if this

gets so good, it's like making amazing music that people want to hear. It's maybe like the restaurant analogy, right? Like I could go to the Michelin star chef restaurant and get my spaghetti and meatballs or whatever, but there's still something special about mom's spaghetti and meatballs. You know, the ones that your mom makes or your wife or your best friend is a great chef.

Mike Nikou (01:23:06.02)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:23:20.245)

or just the way the guy you know down the street makes barbecue food in his way. I think we'll still long for that. And I'm hoping anyway. There's something just really nice about real people putting their effort into it.

things have gotten so overblown and produced and it's amazing what we can do. Like you said, live shows, the lights are in sync and everything, but it's cool to just watch, you know, a couple of teenagers banging around and do something real, regardless of how good it is. Just the, there's something special about that or, or somebody picking up an actual camera when you could.

Mike Nikou (01:23:47.258)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:24:11.759)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:24:12.737)

You have a phone that probably has better quality than some of these old cameras even, but that deliberate act of taking the picture with the camera and there's nothing, no other focus. And you're working to find what's beautiful in that moment with the limited amount of film you have. You're making those choices and decisions. I'm hoping all of this makes us appreciate that.

Mike Nikou (01:24:33.946)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:24:37.708)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:24:41.447)

aspect of it. It's happening to me I'm noticing. I'm really seeing that in the stuff I'm enjoying lately that I'm noticing the effort or the thought behind it or something, the human. I like humans, I guess.

Mike Nikou (01:24:59.076)

Yeah. And I think it's all tied to our emotional experience. You know, you talk about, you know, you might prefer, know, your mom's spaghetti over the fancy restaurant because it's tied to our human emotional experience. made us feel a certain way. And yes, you know, I mean, the restaurant might be technically absolutely superior in every way, but it's not tied. We don't have any ties to it. We don't have any,

connection, we don't have any emotion attached to it. And that's where I think there, you know, it's similar with music. Yeah, you can have the most perfect sounding track, whatever it may be. But what is our, what is our emotional connection to it? What does it mean to us as a human? And I think that's where, you know, like you were saying, I just don't see how AI or anything like that is ever going to be able to replicate the experience.

and recreate how we feel when we experience the real deal or whatever it may be.

Brian Funk (01:26:05.184)

Yeah, all of this stuff, like, you can still appreciate those five-star Michelin chef spaghetti meatballs, right? It's not exclusive one or the other. And even, you know, just getting back to how we connected that Midnight Mystery Club worked with you and recommended you and that was, cool. Like, you know, I'm already like into what they're doing. And now let me...

get deeper and learn more about like who they worked with. the fact that you can get something mastered online, AI or whatever. There's a lot of ways you can do that. But I kind of like knowing that someone took the time with it and thought about it. And maybe somebody that I care about or that I appreciate their work with. And it went through their lens and here it is now through that journey. This

Mike Nikou (01:26:57.764)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:27:05.178)

song has now gone on its own life, know, kind of like, almost like a child that you release into the world and then, you know, went through you, you mixed, you mastered it, now it's back and it's all grown up. know, there's something cool about that.

Mike Nikou (01:27:13.924)

Yeah, exactly.

Mike Nikou (01:27:20.164)

Definitely. mean, you you mentioned like the online mastering side of things. It's really interesting because online mastering cannot determine if the track you're uploading has already been mastered. So it may already be maxed out. It may be limited. There may even be distortion artifacts from the fact that it's been squashed already. It's generally not able to discern whether or not it can apply its mastering effects. Like it just...

analyzes the track and applies the effect and provides it back to you, but it can't discern whether or not it actually needs mastering. And I think that's one of the key things about mastering. Sometimes it's what you don't do as opposed to what you do. I think a lot of people make the mistake that thinking that mastering is like the magic bullet. Like that's where

you know, it's going to fix all of the problems in my mix and it's going to sound loud and it's going to sound amazing when I upload it to Spotify. And that's really, it's not the case. Mastering is really, it's the final check, I guess you could say. It's we're making sure it's going to be compliant and it's at a level where it's going to be fine for long-term, even archival audio storage and whatever it may be. But really it's

It's not a magic bullet, it's just the final check. And I think that's where the automated mastering and the online mastering, I'm not sure that it's really able to discern in that way, because it's not going to give you a track that is untouched. The online mastering would not say, hey, your mix is 100 % fine, you don't need to do anything. It wouldn't do that. And I think that's where...

Brian Funk (01:29:04.266)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (01:29:08.826)

once again, we get back to the human aspect and having go through someone's lens and their process and their systems. I think that's really where, you know, when you partner yourself with a mixing or mastering engineer, those are the generally the reasons, you know, you should be looking for what, what is their process? Um, what, what do they do? Um, that's, you know, I think that's a big part of it.

Brian Funk (01:29:36.949)

Yeah. I like someone that is okay with saying, I didn't really need to do much to this. know, that's a great perspective to get. I still think it's worth the money, the cost for their services to, you know, listen to it and say, you know what? It doesn't really need too much. I'm going to do this and that. And that's going to be it. I don't think...

Mike Nikou (01:29:45.486)

Yeah, it's fantastic.

Brian Funk (01:30:03.818)

you're paying somebody because of how much they did necessarily.

Mike Nikou (01:30:07.684)

Hmm. Yeah, not at all. It's, it really is. It's about the process. And I think, yeah, but I think to even get, you know, like say if you've mixed your own track and you've sent it off to a mastering engineer and they've said, Hey, you know, your mix is phenomenal. I really didn't need to do much at all. Here's your masters. they're already at an extremely high level. You know, I've just fixed this or that, and I've made sure they're compliant with, with this.

Brian Funk (01:30:13.938)

It's not per knob tweak.

Mike Nikou (01:30:36.332)

upload format, whatever it may be. I think that would be extremely gratifying for someone that has mixed their own music and, you know, to have a mastering engineer look at it and say, you know what, you, you did a fantastic job. you get the green tick. You're ready to, you're ready to upload. So I think even just, like you said, going through that process is, yeah, that could be extremely gratifying for, for an artist to, get that.

Brian Funk (01:31:00.96)

My band went to the mastering of our album and sat with him and he did an awesome job. He's like turning knobs. I can't even really tell if it's even moving, but he's hearing it. And it was really nice to just ask him, what did you see with the mix that I gave you? where...

Mike Nikou (01:31:15.578)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:31:24.985)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:31:29.664)

Did you need to do anything? And just that feedback alone was so valuable just to hear like, yeah, this part here, you know, I wanted this little sibilant in the vocal. So I'm trying to work with that. It was really helpful just for the future too, just to get some, set of ears, trained ears.

Mike Nikou (01:31:47.618)

Yeah, absolutely.

There are a lot of mastering engineers that just won't even allow the artist to see anything of what they do. They won't provide any feedback. They'll just give you the masters and say, here's your masters. Um, I'm a big fan of, you know, providing feedback and saying, Hey, look, next, next time you do a mix, I'd love to hear you try X, Y, and Z. I think, you know, you can achieve, you know, a significantly better result by doing this or that next time you record.

And, you know, I've helped a number of artists from, know, they've gone from almost like a, a semi beginner stage to a level where they're mixing and sometimes even mastering their own music because they've gone through that learning phase. And I'm always happy to give people feedback and help them learn about, you know, why we do certain things. cause that incrementally helps them over the years refine their craft.

And it also helps them articulate what they're trying to do as an artist. think sometimes that can be a big block, a blocking thing for people. Like if you don't know how to do something, but you know what you want to do, that's really frustrating for an artist. So I think the more you can learn and those, like I said, those incremental learns throughout the process. And then you look back after a certain number of years and you're like, wow, I've come so far with my music. So

That's something that I'm always conscious of and I'm always happy to answer people's questions about the process and why I do a certain thing. I think it's great for artists to want to learn that. Not everyone does. Some people just don't want to know about it. They're just like, hey, here's the track, work your magic and just send me the files. I don't really want to know anything about the process, but everyone's different.

Brian Funk (01:33:45.908)

Yeah, I haven't found that either that to be anything that takes away too. It makes me want to work with those people more. It makes me trust them more. It makes me just enjoy what they're doing. So I don't know the need to hide it.

Mike Nikou (01:34:02.555)

I think mastering has always had that rep... Yeah, and I think mastering has always had that reputation of being like a bit of a mysterious dark art. It's totally not that at all. It's, you know, like I said, I love sharing feedback with people to educate them on the process and what's involved and how they can better their own recordings and productions down the track. I'm a big fan of that. Whereas like I said, there are some...

Brian Funk (01:34:10.228)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (01:34:32.43)

mastering engineers that it's a closed door, it's a closed book, they like to maintain the mystery. And I think that's changed a lot over the years, I think with the transparency of way the music industry works now with mastering engineers sharing their process, sometimes even, you know, they'll do like a live feed on YouTube and they'll show people, you know, roughly what they do when they're mastering. So I think the...

the secrecy has been removed. The tools are readily available for people. And I do feel that a lot of people are more going down the lines of partnering themselves with someone they can trust and they enjoy working with, and they enjoy that interaction and the process of working with that particular engineer.

Brian Funk (01:35:20.863)

Yeah, it is. It's one of the nice things about the development of our world is this access to information and seeing what people are doing. And hopefully, like you said, it allows more people to get in and be part of it.

Mike Nikou (01:35:31.706)

Hmm.

Mike Nikou (01:35:37.687)

Absolutely.

Brian Funk (01:35:40.784)

So we've been going a while, huh? It went fast for me. I appreciate your time. We'll wrap this up. But I want to just thank you very much for taking the time here and encourage everybody to check out what you're Mike, Nico, so we got mnproductions.com.au is the website, which all this will be in the show notes.

Mike Nikou (01:35:44.344)

Yeah, time flies, hey? Yeah, it did go fast.

Mike Nikou (01:36:08.27)

That's right, Brian.

Brian Funk (01:36:10.175)

Um, on Instagram, I think is a great way to find you because you'll pop up with some nice, very poignant and practical pieces of wisdom and advice. Um, that I think can help lots of people. It's definitely helped me. Um, I really love what you're doing.

Mike Nikou (01:36:27.716)

Yeah. Instagram. Thanks, Brian. I really appreciate it. yeah, people can check it out on Instagram. I'm also on TikTok at the same address at mcnixpro, M-I-C-N-I-X-P-R-O. yeah, whichever way people like to consume their media, it's on all of the, it's usually the same sort of posts will be sent out through various platforms. think it's on like the...

Brian Funk (01:36:47.337)

Yeah.

Mike Nikou (01:36:57.112)

YouTube shorts as well. but yeah, thank you so much. It's been really great to chat today and I really appreciate you having me.

Brian Funk (01:37:00.361)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:37:07.699)

Yeah, and thanks for supplying the download. You've got the mastering checklist, the mixing checklist, and some slate VMR presets. That's virtual mix room, right? I don't have that, virtual.

Mike Nikou (01:37:19.118)

Yeah, Slate Virtual... No, that's cool. It's a Slate Virtual Mix Rack. So it's basically like an interchangeable mix rack where you can plug in different modules within the mix rack. So you can put like a, you know, console, emulator, EQ, compressor, and you can interchange all of the modules. I've got a few starting points there that people can use. It's not so much to apply a particular sound to something.

Brian Funk (01:37:26.132)

Mixerack.

Mike Nikou (01:37:48.3)

It's not so much, I guess, like a magic bullet as such. It's more of a bit of a starting point where, you know, people can work with, you know, if they are mixing their own tracks or experimenting with sounds, you know, some specific presets for like drums and things like that. So, you know, I hope people will find some sort of use for that as well.

Brian Funk (01:37:51.965)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:38:07.997)

Yeah, that's very nice and generous of you. And we'll put that link in the show notes as well as all of the other ones there for people to find.

Mike Nikou (01:38:16.302)

I appreciate that, Brian.

Brian Funk (01:38:18.559)

Well, thanks for being here and thank you everyone for listening. You guys have a great day.

Mike Nikou (01:38:22.446)

Thank you. Appreciate it. Take care and have a great day.

Brian Funk
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