Finding Support in Community with Michaela Shiloh and Andre Mullen - Music Production Podcast #362

Michaela Shiloh and Andre Mullens run the community-based record label HRDRV, which helps artists develop their careers. Their combined decades of experience in the music industry include writing music for top artists like Janet Jackson and Jennifer Lopez and working for Bad Boy Records. 

Michaela and Andre discuss the importance of camaraderie and collaboration in running their company, HRDRV. The conversation also delves into the challenges of wearing multiple hats as a musician and the need for a toolbox in the music industry. Michaela and Andre share stories from their journeys in the music business and how they led to the development of HRDRV.

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Show Notes:

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:01.294)

Andre Michaela, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.

Michaela Shiloh (00:04.034)

Thanks for having us. We're excited.

Andre Mullen (00:04.696)

Thanks for having us.

Brian Funk (00:07.026)

Great to have you already. I feel like a really nice positive energy from you both. It seems like you also have, must have that together in a working relationship.

Andre Mullen (00:16.003)

Yes we do. Oh man did you freeze? I think she froze.

Brian Funk (00:21.502)

She froze, maybe she'll unfreeze. There she is. You're back. No problem.

Michaela Shiloh (00:21.798)

Oh no, what happened? I'm so sorry, I don't know what happened. Well, let's hope it doesn't do it again. We're here though, we're here. Sorry.

Andre Mullen (00:32.955)

Ha ha

Brian Funk (00:33.49)

Right. Yeah, but it's nice to have that kind of camaraderie and collaborative spirit to see that between you guys. I'm sure that's got to be a huge part in running your company, Hard Drive.

Andre Mullen (00:48.084)

Mm-hmm, definitely.

Michaela Shiloh (00:49.098)

It's everything. It's quite literally the glue that holds it all together, like behind the scenes and on the scene. When I started the company in 2019, I actually did not foresee that. It was very much a two-sided marketplace idea and the community grew quite rapidly really soon. Like within the first few weeks, artists were promoting each other and connecting and collaborating and it was just really, really special. And...

And that's, again, that's been the secret sauce the past four or five years now is how that camaraderie, like you mentioned, has grown from the marketplace. Yeah, it's really beautiful. Actually, I haven't seen that in my traditional career at all. You know, the music business is very cliquey and political, not always a nice place. So it's nice to have a safe, fun, warm, welcoming community like we have at Hard Drive. It's excellent.

Brian Funk (01:47.09)

Very nice. Yeah, you're right. It can be kind of like cutthroat and everyone's a competitor, but I, I do feel like it seems like when people get together and work together, it's that kind of saying about, um, the tide, high tide raises all ships or rising tide. You know, I'm talking about the one where all the boats get higher. Cause yeah.

Michaela Shiloh (01:53.517)

Yeah.

Andre Mullen (02:03.544)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.

Michaela Shiloh (02:05.162)

Yep, exactly. Exactly, because everyone's pushing. Yeah. No, that's exactly what it is. Exactly. Yeah.

Brian Funk (02:13.706)

Can I get you guys maybe to just describe Hard Drive for us so everyone listening can kind of get a sense of what this is all about?

Michaela Shiloh (02:21.266)

Andre take it away. It's so much.

Andre Mullen (02:26.723)

Hard drive is about community, it's about music, it's about tech. And the beautiful thing about hard drive is that it brings those three aspects together, not only in a product form, but in a people form. And

What continues to be, like as Michaela said, the glue is really the people. We esteem people over product. However, we want to help them with products to continue to further their career. And people that we're talking about are...

creatives in general, particularly recording artists. But we also do have and do work with service providers that as Michaela mentioned earlier, when she first created and founded Hard Drive, it was a two-way marketplace where you had artists being able to really to engage with service providers, get services from service providers.

still the case. However, with that there became this growth of a community where you have artists being each other's biggest fans and that's a serious driver for not only growth but innovation in a different way that challenges us to create

and work through different tech applications that help artists to grow and scale their artist business. And you know, it's not just artists at...

Andre Mullen (04:24.84)

It's not just beginning artists, it's not just mid-tier artists, it's not even just artists that have been in the market already. It really comprises all of them because artists are all at different stages of their career and

I know that is one of the things we take real pride in. Not only pride, but really satisfaction and joy in the simple fact that there is no artist that we can't help. You know, there isn't an artist that we can't help. There isn't an artist that is without our, that's not within reach. There's, you know, between Michaela and I, we have over 15 years of music industry experience.

Michaela Shiloh (04:58.635)

Right.

Andre Mullen (05:12.786)

And then when you wrap all of that in technological pieces and systems and processes, it becomes something totally different. And so hard drive is special in that regard.

Michaela Shiloh (05:28.382)

You said over 50 years of experience, right? Because it's my 15 and you're 35. Yeah, it's kind of crazy how much experience we have. We always joke that Andre looks 35, but he's been in the game for 30 plus years. It's crazy. He's he's about to hit that 50. Sorry, Andre.

Andre Mullen (05:30.744)

Yeah. Indeed.

Brian Funk (05:33.447)

Hehehe

Brian Funk (05:41.394)

Yeah.

Andre Mullen (05:43.604)

Mmm!

Brian Funk (05:45.134)

Oh yeah? Good. I never would have guessed.

Michaela Shiloh (05:49.376)

Right?

Andre Mullen (05:50.877)

Oh man.

Michaela Shiloh (05:52.306)

Yeah, he really nailed it. He really nailed it. But go ahead, Brian. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

Brian Funk (05:58.202)

No, not at all. I'm here to hear you guys talk. It's a funny thing as a musician, you get involved in this and you think you're gonna play your instrument and you're gonna sing, you're gonna write songs, whatever it is, and then you start to realize, no, I'm going to get into promotion, marketing, web design, video content. It's overwhelming, really, and I feel it a lot myself. All these hats we have to put on.

Andre Mullen (06:01.356)

I'm out.

Brian Funk (06:25.906)

do it and I'm guessing that's a big part of where you guys come in to kind of help artists navigate that because like I said like it's hard enough being an artist it's hard enough doing the music and focusing on the craft and then when you start factoring these other things and it's like well how do you get anything done

Michaela Shiloh (06:30.327)

Yes.

Michaela Shiloh (06:43.63)

Exactly. Well, that's absolutely the entire purpose. You know, I always say hard drive is a Swiss army knife of sorts. You know, we're very focused on education, business education. And that's one of the biggest parts of what we do is, is we, you know, we're doing these members only calls.

We've done that once a week for the past two and a half years, like Rain or Shine every Sunday. And that's just even a place where it's free call, you know, our members can we talk about everything from music marketing to life, mental health. We have jam sessions, just listening to each other's music and giving, you know, real feedback and not just being yes, man. It's like, no, it's real constructive criticism as well. And.

As I said, Swiss Army Knife of all those things, it's connecting graphic designers, videographers, photographers, radio promotional tools. We do have a distribution arm, but we're in no way a distributor. That's my, oh, I hate being compared to distributors because that's just not what it is. It's one very small part of what we do. Yeah, it's a moving enigma. And you just...

It's all a cart, you know, you come and get what you need. If you're an artist that's just starting out and you really need someone to hold your hand, there's definitely people on the team that will do that. And I've never seen that in any other music tech company. And I've been a part of a lot of different communities. And I just, I don't feel the love the way that we provide it, but that's why it's special.

Andre Mullen (08:22.68)

Yeah, definitely. Hard drive is definitely something that I was actually was talking to a friend of mine who actually runs a label and has artists under his part of his roster. And we were talking about how there's so many tools for artists.

but there isn't really a toolbox. So I liken it to, if you and I wanna build a house, Brian, right? Michaela gives us a hammer. Great, we do need a hammer. But at some point, we're gonna need nails. So now we gotta go find nails. All right, now we got nails.

Brian Funk (08:55.218)

Hmm.

Andre Mullen (09:19.2)

but we also find that we need a saw. Okay, so we gotta go look for a saw. All right, we got the saw, we got nails, got a hammer. Okay, now we gotta go find a ruler.

We got to go find, you know, we have to find all of these pieces. We're going, we're looking in all of these different places for all of these pieces that are necessary to build this house. We actually are spending more time looking for all the pieces to build this house. And that's when the frustration really comes in versus if

Brian Funk (09:38.282)

Hehehe

Andre Mullen (10:06.604)

where Michaela comes and she comes with a toolbox and she comes with all the necessary, she has all the tools to at least get started, right? She's gonna be further ahead than we are. She's gonna be less frustrated than we are, right? And so.

Michaela Shiloh (10:22.928)

Mm-hmm.

Andre Mullen (10:24.8)

That's kind of how I was explaining to my friend as I was explaining how the music industry is with all of the tools that are available to artists. There are tools and they're not bad tools, they're really good tools. It's just that you still have to go here, here and then over there.

So that you can get all these tools together and then only then you have to try to figure out, okay, now how do I make all of these tools work? Because they got to work together. So how do I do that? And at the end of the day, what are artists focused on?

I just want to make music, man. I didn't sign up for all of it. Like you said, I didn't, no, I didn't sign up for marketing. I didn't sign up for promoting myself. I didn't sign up for making content. I didn't sign up for, I just want to make the music. So that's where hard drive really comes in and says, hey, here's a toolbox. We know you want to build a house. Here's a toolbox.

We want to provide you with a faster, in every sense of the word, a faster and more efficient way to get to point B than to point C than to point D. Right? And if you're an artist that, let's say you're an artist that already has some traction, has a catalog, right? You've got to, you're already at...

H. And you're realizing, man, I need some other stuff, man, to get me to point I, you know, and move me forward. Hey, you may just need, you just may need another set of tools. Right? You may need another toolbox, because in the toolbox you have, oh, you don't have a power

Andre Mullen (12:36.732)

You know, so that's what we that's really what we've been what we provide. And there aren't there really isn't too many places that especially I've seen I've come across that really allows for that. You know, so that's what's kind of that's the that's the

Michaela Shiloh (13:02.102)

high-level house metaphor. Yeah, yeah, it is.

Andre Mullen (13:04.029)

Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. That's what it is.

Brian Funk (13:04.45)

Yeah. I'm an English teacher by day. And what you just said would be a perfect literary example of a extended metaphor. But it is, it is a really good one because I mean, you mentioned right, right before we started recording, Oh, you're doing this on Riverside. I never used the Riverside to do a podcast. And I can't tell you how long I bounced around just trying to figure out which was the best.

Andre Mullen (13:12.626)

Heh.

Michaela Shiloh (13:18.261)

I love that.

Brian Funk (13:33.866)

platform. There's a lot of platforms that do different things and you sort of have to almost just take these leap of leaps of faith As you're trying to figure this out, and it's not just for podcasts But for anything like what DAW am I gonna use? you know, what am I gonna do all these things like if the questions just keep going and if you go on the internet, you'll find every opinion possible and

You really don't know who's giving you the information, where they are. They might just be somebody who are to friend and speak about it and don't have the experience. They might be at the top levels of the game. Um, it's really hard to know like where you're at. So I could see how having something that just kind of keeps you together, keeps you in one spot where you can find the things you need is useful, definitely useful when you're trying to fix something around the house.

Michaela Shiloh (14:07.909)

Mm-hmm.

Michaela Shiloh (14:19.598)

Mm-hmm.

Michaela Shiloh (14:27.386)

Exactly that part.

Andre Mullen (14:29.518)

Oh man. It's funny.

Brian Funk (14:32.522)

So you guys didn't just decide one day to do this out of nowhere because you thought maybe these musician people have a problem with their, you know, getting their careers together. You have a lot of experience. I was kind of interested just to hear what led you both to this point, some of your backstory a little bit.

Michaela Shiloh (14:50.742)

Yeah, I'll go. I've been in the music business since I was 15. That's when I signed my first publishing deal as to a producer named Chad Dexter. He was signed to G Unit at the time. So I was really young. That's when I found out that artists had songwriters. I didn't know that was a thing until I was 15. I was like, oh wow, this is actually a career. I remember Chad sending me a beat one day for Ashley Simpson. And I was like, oh my gosh, wait.

I'm gonna write for her, I don't understand this concept. She doesn't write her own songs. So it was a really a big moment for me. And then my business brain, even at 15, was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be a songwriter. And then my artistry itself kind of took a little bit of a backseat, because I came into the game as an artist. And...

I was always told by my producers, you know, when I was younger that, nah, just be, you know, start as a songwriter so you really learn the business and then you, you know, network with other artists and then you can do your artist thing later, right? So that's kind of the journey that I took. When I was 17, I signed to another producer. Kind of shifted gears a little bit. I met Dark Child, Rodney Jerkins, and I signed a deal with him. And that's when I met Janet Jackson and Britney Spears and wrote for JLo and all those artists.

in high school.

and rocked out with him for a couple of years. And then, it's just the regular ups and downs of the business. I ended up parting ways with him when I was 19 and I've been independent ever since, although I was still in a publishing deal for a few years after that. I couldn't get out my publishing deal. That's just, again, kind of the messed up part of this business is getting, yeah, surprise, getting stuck in these contracts, people not responding to you, like welcome to the music business. So I actually,

Brian Funk (16:28.259)

Surprise!

Andre Mullen (16:29.484)

Heh heh.

Michaela Shiloh (16:38.668)

found a website in my mid 20s that completely changed my life. It was called sound better. Shout out to Shahar Gillad, the CEO, and that site is a two sided marketplace. And I started making really great money on this website. So finally, I was using my skill sets for something.

useful, you know, because being in the music business, especially a songwriter, we already know that the royalties associated with that are just not great. Even even with the people that I was writing songs for, you know, we could get into that a little bit later. Had platinum plaques on my wall. My mom was still paying my rent until I was 23. So I found this website called Sound Better, and I started making like 10, 13 grand a month on this website with, you know, doing vocal features and demos. All that being said, I really kicked into,

to my music as an actual business mindset, right? Like my mindset really shifted back into I'm an entrepreneur and yada, yada.

long story short, because there's many roads on this journey. I actually ended up feeling and this is no shade to sound better because I'm so grateful for it. Being in my story, I started feeling like it was just a job, right? And I was still working day and night. And I wanted to make money in my sleep, right? And I also wanted to help people. So I was like, how the hell do I do that? Right? How do I do that? That's like the number one goal.

And I heard Tony Robbins say, you don't have a business until you have a system that could be sold.

Michaela Shiloh (18:10.87)

And I was like, damn, if I stop my songwriting business, I don't have a business. Doesn't matter how much money I'm making, my rent won't get paid. So I was driving one day on the five, and I always tell this part of the story. I was at the part on the five from LA to the Bay Area where it just smells really bad. The cows smell so bad. And it was this moment that out of nowhere, so this actually did happen out of nowhere, hard drives birth story. I thought, wait, I have,

all of these artists DMing me, asking me where I'm getting, you know, my cover artwork, my mixing and mastering, my beats, and then on the other side, I know all of these amazing, you know, creative service providers that are my friends that I've just known in the industry for, you know, 10 years at that point. And...

I was just like, oh my gosh, this doesn't exist. There's no place I've ever seen where you're getting that myriad of services in one place. And so I got to my destination that night, opened my laptop, got on wix.com, thought of Hard Drive the name instantly because artists just keep songs on their hard drive collecting dust and Hard Drive was born. I...

bought the site plan for like $150, set up the subscription integration because you know, I was starting from zero, like it needed to, it had to make sense, right? And I had to give access to these relationships I had been building for 10 years. It doesn't make sense to give that away literally for free, right? There was no way I could do that. They're very valuable relationships to me. So long story short, 10 artists signed up the first week and I was like, wow, I already have a proof of concept. People really need this.

Brian Funk (19:26.066)

Mm-hmm.

Michaela Shiloh (19:45.354)

It's useful for them. I was doing all the customer service for the first year and a half. We were on emails and third party forms before we got our web team involved because I'm non-technical, but I used the tools that I had to put all the tools in one place. It was pretty crazy. We were using Google Drive and all sorts of things. But again, that's when I started seeing the community forming itself. And I was like, this is a lot bigger than I thought it would be.

I thought I was just gonna make a simple tool and, you know.

make my money in my sleep and be able to help people at the same time. But then it became about much more than that. It just became about people over products because artists are so productized, obviously, in this business. And I just really care about people and their mental health and them feeling like they're making an impact even in their small audience or midsize audience, however big it is. But yeah, that's the origin story. It was actually a random moment on a drive. And it just was like, bam, out of nowhere.

Just made sense. Yeah.

Brian Funk (20:46.002)

Well, it's cool because people were sort of asking you for it already. You know?

Michaela Shiloh (20:49.598)

Yeah, they were, they were. And I had to solve the problem. I was like, I can't keep answering these DMs one-offs. You know, it was like so much information all the time. Bring it all together, yeah.

Brian Funk (20:56.543)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (21:01.226)

I think it's a great attitude to have that kind of people first thing too. Because what I've found myself, and I've had people say to me, like, sometimes people send me a song to listen to or ask for some advice about something and it's like, well, why don't you charge them for that? Why don't you make this a thing you do? And what I've kind of found, like number one, I don't really want to commit to all that time that would take. But when I do offer that...

Michaela Shiloh (21:05.066)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (21:29.182)

kind of one-off things, people, they stick around. It really means something to them. And I've had those relationships become two-way relationships very quickly, where I'm getting something out of it, whether it's even just some satisfaction and encouragement, and there's people that appreciate what you're doing. But it's funny how it's kind of like the more you give, the more it comes back. And...

Michaela Shiloh (21:33.602)

They do. They really do.

Michaela Shiloh (21:48.155)

Mm-hmm. Yup.

Brian Funk (21:57.402)

I always see those types of opportunities as just, they're building relationships, they're building connections and it's a reputation thing and it sort of becomes like a philosophy you embody a bit. Never regretted it. Never been like, I shouldn't have done that. But that's really cool that you just had this thing kind of come to you in that.

Michaela Shiloh (22:10.718)

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, no. Heard.

Brian Funk (22:25.342)

people wanted to know what you were doing. And that's something I think people in many different phases of their careers in the arts and music, they have something to offer. There's always somebody that's either not there yet or coming at it from a different angle that can learn from you. And yeah, it's all about sharing that. So that's cool. It's cool to see that that's sort of like.

Michaela Shiloh (22:44.396)

Mm-hmm.

Michaela Shiloh (22:48.81)

Yes, sharing and not scamming people. Man, the scams out there are insane. We love blasting scammers because it's just the, man, sorry. I just, it makes me so, it makes it harder for us to do what we do because we're doing a genuine service here. And you know, there's all those A&R email, fake A&R emails going out and there's these producer scams now. And it's just like, where can you go where there's trusted?

veterans in this business that are, you know, that are trying to protect you. And that's definitely, that's definitely us.

Brian Funk (23:27.762)

Yeah. Well, what is it like for you being still in high school and being asked to write for Ashley Simpson, Janet Jackson?

Michaela Shiloh (23:38.454)

Yeah, it was, you know, it was surprisingly normal. I know that's crazy, but I was, you know, I've been recording myself since I was 12 years old, you know, Pro Tools, and I had this DAW called Magix Audio, like.

2004 or something that I was using on a PC. So really my life wasn't disrupted in any way. I would go to LA in the summers, but I was always just home recording and sending those songs to Dark Child and his team or Chad when I was signed to Chad. And it was very much a virtual collaboration for a long time. You know, when the songs would come out, like Janet Jackson came out, I was a junior and I went to watch the video in the library at school and I like called a couple friends over

There's no way you wrote that. And I'm like, dude, yes I did. Like they didn't, people didn't really even believe it was my life, so that was a little frustrating too. So, but it was normal. It just felt normal. I didn't do any extra extracurricular activities. I would just go to school, then go home and write. And that was my life. I went to like two high school parties, my whole four years. I was very much just working the whole time.

Brian Funk (24:43.894)

Hmm

Brian Funk (24:47.726)

What is that track so I can put it in the show notes?

Michaela Shiloh (24:50.074)

Oh yeah, it was Make Me by Janet Jackson. Yeah, that was fun. That was my first major placement seeing a video, my first major placement where there was a video. So that was a good memory. Yeah.

Brian Funk (24:53.034)

Cool.

Brian Funk (25:01.962)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I bet, you know, just going with this theme of we all kind of have something to offer at our level, as a high school student, you got this perspective and probably this world view in the lyrics and the songs that, you know, that they can't have, that they might want to bring to the music to keep it fresh and young and popular. So this...

Michaela Shiloh (25:21.042)

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Michaela Shiloh (25:27.787)

Yeah.

Absolutely. Well, that goes both ways too. I remember when I met JLo, the song that we wrote for her was called, This Cannot Be Love. And I remember when she came into the room and we were talking about the song and playing her the song, she was like, what you know about this topic? Like she was kind of clowning me, cause I'm like 17 and know nothing about, you know, having a 10 year marriage. So it definitely goes both ways. Like you can definitely bring the fresh perspective, but then there is some lack of experience, whereas a teenager, you have to really use your imagination.

Brian Funk (25:47.42)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (25:57.546)

Sure.

Michaela Shiloh (25:59.741)

for some things, but I have an overactive imagination, so it worked out.

Brian Funk (26:04.39)

Well, I can tell you I've seen plenty of romantic drama going down in the high school hallways.

Andre Mullen (26:09.452)

Hehehehehehe

Michaela Shiloh (26:10.294)

That part, that's true too. That is true, that is true. And it's gotten worse now, oh my gosh. There's a lot going on with these teenagers.

Brian Funk (26:18.797)

Oh yeah, it's a tough time to be a kid. I didn't have to grow up with cell phones, the internet, social media. The internet was like new. AOL was fresh back then. So.

Michaela Shiloh (26:27.538)

Oh my gosh, I remember. Wow. That's what I was using. I was using AOL Messenger for some of these collaborations and like iChat. Who remembers iChat? Oh my gosh. Wow.

Andre Mullen (26:32.835)

AOL... Wow.

Brian Funk (26:37.966)

Yeah, right. That's cool. Hey, you know, but again, probably being young, you understood these platforms, you know, better than a lot of the adults here, but it gives you some sort of leg up. Yeah.

Andre Mullen (26:40.845)

Cool? Mm, mm, mm.

Michaela Shiloh (26:49.35)

very much dead. Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Funk (26:54.35)

Andre, how about you? You've got some pretty cool things going on. And also something, well, I'll let you fill it in. Ha ha.

Andre Mullen (27:06.642)

I got my start in the music industry really... I started in a boys group when I was younger. And my mom was... My mom is a retired school teacher. So...

You know, she was like, I was excited about being in this group. We were making some R&B music. And I got to tell you, I was like, oh, man, this is going to be cool. The whole bit, I'm going to be a superstar. You couldn't tell me nothing. I was in a group with there was five of us. You know, we was doing our dance routines in the backyard. You know, one of my friends was.

Brian Funk (27:50.727)

Nice.

Andre Mullen (27:55.356)

at the time he was the one who was producing. When we had MIDI keyboards and the whole bit. And, you know, and it was something. We were just really good. You can tell us anything. It was, we were at, I was, I came into the music industry at a time at the height of New Jack Swing, the beginning of New Jack Swing.

Um, in case anybody is like, huh, that's, that's Bobby Brown. That's Bobby Brown. That's, that's new edition. That's

Michaela Shiloh (28:29.994)

Like me, I'm like what? Yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk (28:31.891)

Yeah.

Andre Mullen (28:37.844)

Oh my gosh, that's so many wrecks in effect. It was just, it just was, it was, it was that time, especially, especially in black music, particularly where there was a shift. There was the, there was the marriage, the real marriage of hip hop and R&B. And...

Andre Mullen (29:02.348)

Fast forward with that.

We were offered, the group broke up, but me and my friend were still working together. And we got to a point where we were offered a record deal from Columbia. And at the time, that was when deals were like, they was, oh my gosh, it's even now, it's how it is now. They were just throwing money. And we got a deal. I was excited. My mom was like, no.

So that was that. End of story. But I was... Wow, I was in high school. So I was 15. I was 15. And...

Brian Funk (29:37.47)

All right. How old are you at that time?

Brian Funk (29:45.354)

Yeah.

Wow. Interesting commonality between you two, you know?

Michaela Shiloh (29:49.258)

Insane. Yeah.

Andre Mullen (29:52.58)

Yeah, I was 15. And, but I never stopped working in music. I continued, you know, I just kind of kept my ear to the street, was just still doing some working and writing and doing some vocals. When I got into college was when a lot of my friends...

at that point, they were a few years older than me, they were interning at labels. And at that point, I was getting these little kind of like side gigs. So I was a session singer for a lot of artists that were doing demo work, that had been signed, that were doing demo work.

Further in the college, I became very captivated by the business side after a friend of mine showed me recording agreements, management agreements, from Uptown Records where Andre Harrell was the president and my friend worked closely with Sean Combs.

in the A&R department. And I was able to really see how the business worked. I pretty much got involved in music publishing directly because of Sean Combs. He...

Brian Funk (31:24.339)

business.

Andre Mullen (31:27.093)

Yeah, he worked with artists. He worked with artists and at the time, he was working with a young lady that we all know and love now, Mary J. Blige. And...

there was, this was the beginning of Bad Boy. So like there was, so he worked with Faith Evans because Faith Evans did a lot of background vocals between her and Mary J. Blige. They just do a lot of background vocals for a lot of different artists. Jodeci, like all of the artists that were part of the first kind of wave of Uptown, where Sean was, where...

you know, we, I commonly call him puff, but I try to, I try to use his name. So, cause people be like puff poos puff, you know, but he was puff. You know what I'm saying? Um, and it was a lot of artists. And there was a lot of artists that he was working with at the time. Um, and he, he worked with artists in a way where, um, I had never seen before. I was, I was,

Brian Funk (32:16.234)

Alright.

Yeah, before the change, right?

Andre Mullen (32:36.188)

really impressed with it.

along with the events he used to throw and the people that used to be there. So, you know, Russell Simmons, Leora Cohen when he was a tour manager, he wasn't even, you know, and he was just starting to work with Russ and they had created Rush Entertainment, Rush Entertainment Management, it was a whole management company. So they had LL, they had Run DMC,

It was wild. It was just a wild time, a very different time. The music industry was like the wild, even then it was the wild, wild west, but there were so many people that were interconnected, right, and that were working together in such kinda let's get it ways. Like nobody was like, oh, I don't know if we could do this. It was like, look, when people were saying no, they were like, oh yeah, no, well, we're gonna do it.

Ultimately, my thing was, as I began to see the business, and I began to see, be at events, and see these particular people who are now icons and moguls in their own right, I realized that the business was where I wanted to be. And...

I first was working in music publishing. That's how I came into the business. I was working in music publishing, and then one day, one of the artists whose catalog I was, I was working with, he asked me that question that everybody falls for. Can you manage me? And I was like, ah, sure. What? That's easy, easy. Not knowing.

Brian Funk (34:28.135)

Hmm.

Andre Mullen (34:31.664)

Um, that became a very, that was a turning point in my music, music career, music journey. I've worked with independent art, independent artists predominantly, by choice. I just had, I've had a bad, a bad experience with a signed artist.

And that literally said, you know what? Yeah, I'm not working with a signed artist. And I worked with independent artists. And I have successfully worked with independent artists for 22 years. And just within the last two years, hit burnout and said, hey, I don't wanna do this anymore. And with, at a high, I was at a high. I wasn't like, oh man.

lost money, destitute, nothing like that. I don't have no sob story like that. I was literally about to scale my business, working with various partners, and I felt it and I just couldn't shake it. And I said, this doesn't feel good anymore.

And I said, I don't want to do it. And, you know, the first person I had this conversation with was my wife. She didn't believe me. She was like, oh, you know, it'll pass. It's like, yo, you got heartburn. It'll pass. I was like, it's so feel good right now. But I was like, no, like this doesn't, just doesn't, it's not jiving anymore. Something's not happening.

Brian Funk (36:10.826)

Hmm.

Andre Mullen (36:12.668)

And I said, I'm gonna get a job. She was like, okay, let's see how that works. You're gonna get a job. And for 2022, I spent whole 2022 looking for work and didn't find anything. And at the end of 2022 is when some good friends of mine were like, hey, look, this is what we think. You know this stuff.

And then I came to understanding of, yeah, I do know this stuff. And as a matter of fact, you know, I wanna help artist managers. I do. So I had spent, then I went and spent 2023 embracing what I called and what I made public, the paradigm shift. And that paradigm shift was that I really believe that artist managers are integral to

helping artists and building artists. And I wanna see, I ultimately wanna see artists win, I do. And so in 2023, I've had the opportunity to just dealing with various tech platforms and various individuals. And one of those individuals was Michaela. And hard drive, the real reason why I...

am such a proponent of hard drive, why I work with Michaela, why I believe in hard drive, is because ultimately the end goal and the end game is still the same. And that is to help artists create sustainable careers for themselves. You know, whether that be with a team.

or without. And the beauty of this is something I've always said is that the only way that we can do this, the only way they could do this now in this particular era of music, you've got to use tech. If you do not use tech, you're not gonna win at all. And there's no reason for any artist to be a struggling artist in 2024. If you're a struggling artist, it's because you're in your own way.

Andre Mullen (38:35.228)

not for any other reason, not because, oh, you know, there's so much competition out. No, there's no competition. I've said that too. There's no competition in the music industry. Competition you have is in your head. So, you know, so here we are, you know, and it's a beautiful thing. I'm excited about a lot of things that we're working on. Michaela, you know, I've gone on, I haven't gone on record with saying this.

But I will hear because I think it's true. I think Michaela is a genius. You know, she's, you know, she has, she has put something, she has put something together with what she, what she has in her hand and said, hey, I want to see this though. And you know, those are things that are impressive to me.

Michaela Shiloh (39:07.81)

Thank you.

Andre Mullen (39:27.264)

because for so long I've worked with artists that's always, I don't have this, I don't have this, how can I do this, I don't have this. And I'm like, and I've always been a strong supporter of those that, hey, look, man, let's, if I take this thing and I take this thing, because these are the only two things I have, and I put them together and we can make them work, and it can get me to point B, then cool, let's do it.

And now there's just too many things that artists, like I'm even looking, like you have a full studio there. You know how many artists that I know are probably like, oh, I don't know, I don't feel like recording. What? You have a full studio and you sit, well, you know, I haven't recorded in a week. What? I know artists that literally have a MacBook.

Brian Funk (40:07.625)

Mm.

Brian Funk (40:18.773)

Thank you.

Andre Mullen (40:25.332)

There was a story about an artist who went to the, his computer crashed. I don't know if you ever heard this story, Michaela, but his computer crashed.

This guy went to the Mac store. He went to the Apple store and literally finished his album using one of the Macs in the store.

Brian Funk (40:50.869)

It's awesome.

Andre Mullen (40:51.664)

He would go there. He had his external hard drive, literally plug that in, boop, and finished his album in the Mac store. So if, so when I hear, I don't have, and you know what? The reps will come to him and they would literally time him. So he'd be like, all right, cool. I guess I got two hours. I got to make it count.

Michaela Shiloh (40:55.854)

That's the energy right there. Yeah.

Michaela Shiloh (41:02.349)

Mm-hmm.

Andre Mullen (41:21.54)

I gotta make it count. And so that's what I'm saying. There's no reason, like now, there's no reason, man. There's just, you know, like, and you just keep seeing instances of it, of people using what they have to achieve greatness. Greatness is in us already. So now it's just tapping into, all right, I gotta get this out. So how do I get this out?

Michaela Shiloh (41:22.828)

I love that.

Andre Mullen (41:46.804)

I gotta, okay, let me pick this up and this, and let me use this to get what's in me out. And that's really what it is. But I can talk about that for days. That's, but that's ultimately how I feel about where a lot of artists are. So, you know, I'm definitely a no excuses type of guy. Cause I'm around people and I've been around people who, as we say, have got it out the mud. So.

Brian Funk (41:47.071)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (41:54.878)

Mm.

Brian Funk (42:13.514)

Hmm. That's a great story. Cause I mean, look, I'm not going to lie to you guys. I've, I know that feeling where you've got everything ready to go and you're like, Oh, I don't know. You know, I don't feel it today. It's like, come on. And a lot of times those are the days if I show up and work anyway, cool stuff happens. Cause it's like the jump from like negative inspiration to

Michaela Shiloh (42:28.276)

Yeah.

Andre Mullen (42:40.15)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (42:41.026)

any kind of inspiration is huge. So when it hits, you're like, yes, all right, I wasn't even gonna do it today and look at this. And you're psyched. And something like that story about the Apple Store going in there, like that's a form of creativity. Like creativity to me, I think is solving problems. Sometimes we have too much and like, you can have everything set up and you go, eh, I don't know. But when you have those problems to solve, you're like, you know what?

Michaela Shiloh (43:03.996)

Exactly.

Andre Mullen (43:04.588)

Hahaha

Brian Funk (43:09.094)

I'm gonna go to the Apple store and see if they kick me out. And just see what I can get done, cause I gotta do this. I think that kind of spirit, I mean, there's no stopping people like that. That's like a freight train coming, going to the store. Just to see if I can get away with it, that's great.

Michaela Shiloh (43:22.203)

Exactly.

Yep.

part.

Andre Mullen (43:30.964)

Yep, I totally believe that. I just, for real, I think that people, you know, I think that this is the time for artists to really, to really embrace how to make it. I think too many people, too many artists are just, they're wanting things to kinda, they're wanting things to kinda just fall in their lap. You know, I mean, Mikaela and I, we deal with that a lot with artists that,

Hey, um, like, I'm just reminded, like, so on our platform, we were offering free artwork, right? And, you know, we're, you know, we're, we're altering some things and changing some things. So no more free artwork. People were just in a, in a rage, like, where's the

Michaela Shiloh (44:24.814)

Three years of free artwork, it was a lot of free artwork. Thousands of covers created, yeah. The anger.

Andre Mullen (44:30.52)

The messages, the messages, the messages. You guys are not offering free, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do? Like, you've been getting free artwork that you've never had to pay for.

Brian Funk (44:30.894)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Michaela Shiloh (44:40.63)

Yeah. We also have graphic designers on the platform that are really low cost. I'm talking like in the 30 or $40 range that are doing graphics that are incredible. Like we're not, we're definitely not out here, you know, with super high cost services. It's like, it's really low cost when it comes to things like that. So that was a big business change for us, but it's gotta happen. Gotta alter things as we go.

Andre Mullen (44:52.485)

Mm-hmm

Brian Funk (44:56.229)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (45:09.15)

Well, it's understandable. I mean, stuff doesn't come out of thin air. I mean, if you want free, go AI, do that, you know? But you're not going to get art. You want art? Like, I think that some expectations need to be maybe shifted a little and brought into reality.

Michaela Shiloh (45:13.178)

Right. It costs those too. Yeah.

Andre Mullen (45:22.401)

Ha ha

Michaela Shiloh (45:28.171)

right that part.

Thank you.

Michaela Shiloh (50:56.486)

Just keep going. It's really about persistence and dedication. Persistence being number one. That's the only way. Only way it's gonna work out. Yeah.

Brian Funk (51:09.15)

Right, I agree, well said. Well, thank you both, Andre and Michaela, and thank you to the listener. We appreciate you sticking around and listening to us chat. Check out Hard Drive. Take care.

Michaela Shiloh (51:20.11)

Thanks guys. Thank you.

podcastBrian Funkmusic production podcast, hrdrv, andre mullens, michaela shiloh