Finish Every Song You Start with Johan Ransby - Music Production Podcast #363

Johan Ransby is an artist, coach, and producer. He shares tips and techniques that help artists finish more music and reach their career goals. His website is loaded with helpful creative tools and his social media accounts contain priceless advice.

Johan and I had a great conversation about how he approaches making music and teaching his students. He emphasized the importance of seeking challenges and chasing excitement. We talked about creativity, live performance, and being enthusiastic about our work. The episode ends with Johan's impromptu critique of my song "I'm Looking for You" from my album Rectangles.

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Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk (00:01.334)

Johann, welcome to the show. Great to have you here.

Johan (00:04.238)

Thank you so much and thank you for inviting me.

Brian Funk (00:07.282)

Oh, my pleasure, man. I was really happy when you reached out on Instagram, of all places, and I started diving into some of your videos and some of your words of wisdom around songwriting and making music and creativity. And right away I was like, all right, this is someone I wanna talk to. I like the way you're looking at things.

Johan (00:26.406)

I love it and I just remember writing the most lame message to you and just you reacting and I was like he must be very cool and then I saw your like five minutes book which is by the way missing in your image. Yeah exactly and I have a bass like the last.

Brian Funk (00:44.93)

Oh, what am I doing? There we go. Just happens to be there.

Johan (00:52.858)

Yeah, exactly. Last seven years preaching five minutes things to do and I was just like more and more I read about you I was just like perfect so match made in heaven I think.

Brian Funk (01:07.147)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:10.338)

Well, you've got something I saw here that's kind of along those lines that people can download too from you. Creative prompts, it says 75 or more creative prompts. To be honest with you, I'm just finding it in the few minutes before we started talking. I didn't see it before that. But you have an image and I'm looking at it right now and it's just a lot of great ideas. You've got like...

Johan (01:20.239)

Ah, yeah.

Brian Funk (01:35.906)

prompts for lyrics, some for production, chords, only major chords, only minor chords. I just think like having little things like that can make such a huge difference.

Johan (01:49.186)

This is one of the biggest findings that I have made the last three years, I think. Because I don't think these are small things. I think these are the most major things. They actually made me understand what creativity actually is. I'm Danish. And...

from my understanding of creativity, that is creating solutions for problems. So when you don't feel creative, it's because you don't have a problem. So for me, the most well-known feeling that I had before three years back was

I need inspiration, I need creativity. I, what is happening? How can I do, I need to like dream more. I need to do the one or the other thing. Um, but then I started giving myself prompts and I have never had a problem. I can sit down with a prompt and have a finished song within an hour or two. And it's inspired and it's like.

I think when we don't give ourselves a prompt, the prompt is write a good song. And then it's like, hmm, what is a good song? And I think that is the second biggest and most exciting question. And this answer is actually very simple, I think. A good song is a song that you made feeling extremely excited.

So when you write a song feeling excited then I will promise you that song is exciting.

Johan (03:45.67)

Basically, I believe that your audience gets excited by your excitement. Just like when you see someone performing. You have seen musicians playing and they're just like, yeah, we're good and blah, blah. And we don't get paid enough and this is so blah, but we're so good. And it's just like you go from the concert and like, hmm.

That was impressive, but you don't feel inspired. And then another evening you can go and see like an amateur band which has rehearsed for like all the time they have and they have been looking forward to playing and they maybe play like shit somehow, but you get a sensation, you get something.

Brian Funk (04:31.457)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (04:32.758)

And I think this is what music is all about, art is all about, life is all about, love is all about. And it's the excitement that we share with each other. So go up on stage and actually...

dare to like be this is what I love the most in the whole universe because I have done all of these things to make it so exciting. Now I share it with you. And it's a hard thing because when we do something that we care about and share it there's the chance for being neglected. That is tough. That's why it's...

requires bravery to actually make exciting music and why we are always on the look out for something safe and easy so we can get to that stage without risking getting burned which I think is why so many people never get anywhere. But the thing about PROMS is that

when you have, when you know what your challenge is, then instead of asking yourself all the time is this good? Which is judging what you do and you can judge and be creative at the same time. So if you instead ask yourself do I think this is an exciting answer for my problem?

then it's all about you. So it's easy to feel. It's easy to be like, yeah, hell yeah. Or you can also be like, hmm, this is how I usually do. So it's actually not that exciting. Or just having made a solution can actually be truly exciting. And because it's exciting, it gets exciting for the listener too.

Johan (06:31.43)

So I believe prompts is the like savior for everything. And a lot of people says like prompts are boring and like, I want to be able to just do what I want. And I'm like.

You do know that your whole life is one big prompt. You get born at some place, that's one prompt. And then you have these parents, that's one prompt. You have this guitar, that's one prompt. And it's all about trying to get the best out of it. And that's what is exciting. We believe that the exciting thing is to get up here. But the exciting part is trying to like...

get the best out of what we have and the less we have the easier it is to actually focus on doing that. So I believe one of the big struggles is that songwriters don't know what they're actually doing I think and that's dangerous to say but I believe it's so true that I'm not the least afraid of saying it.

Brian Funk (07:41.362)

I love that way of looking at it because I go in a lot of times, I want to make a cool song, I want to make a good song. It's kind of like, well, of course you do. Do you ever want to make a bad one? What's that even mean? But the prompt thing, yeah, I encourage it. It's impossible, you said?

Johan (07:41.457)

and

Johan (07:47.595)

Mmm.

Johan (07:51.04)

Exactly.

It's really fun to try by the way, to make a bad song. It's impossible. Yeah. I have done it many, I have, I've always failed. All my bad songs have become my favorites.

Brian Funk (08:11.274)

Hmm.

Johan (08:11.29)

because when you let go of making good then you get to be playful and when you get playful it gets fun and then oh wait i just lost my making a bad song of course you can intellectualize it and then do what you always do and actually make a bad song but then you have understood what it's actually about but sorry yes

Brian Funk (08:36.498)

Well, that's a great point too. I've always encouraged people when they say they can't finish a song or they have in trouble writing a song. It's like, you could write a bad song, right? Like you could just make a miserable, terrible song. And I think what you're saying too is interesting because it takes the pressure off of it. And then...

you start having those playful fun moments that turn it into something nice. A lot of times your taste then kind of comes in and your preferences come in and save the day a little bit and bring you to something interesting.

Johan (09:13.79)

Another thing about prompts which is even more exciting in this situation topic is that the most exciting prompts are the prompts that when you get them you have no idea of how to solve them because there is this preference thing there is this normal habits and i think habits is like the worst thing in the whole universe because

There is always a lot of layers in everything I say, which all the time connects. What is the most exciting thing in life? I believe it's learning. But learning is a lot of things. Learning is learning a new human being. Learning to love, learning to see a new place.

But it's also learning how it sounds if you make a song with only major chords. Even though it sounds really silly and stupid. But if you actually continue only doing that, you will probably end up in something that's a bit Nirvanish or something else. But when we do something that we can't imagine the solution for before we begin, we learn.

And when we learn, it doesn't get more exciting and uncomfortable. And that is really exciting. And there's this preference thing. I, one thing I love to do is that I'm never allowed to do what I want to do. Because I know that I'm a human of habit, an animal of habit, I think it's called. Uh, so I would always prefer what I know.

I would always do what I would feel safe, which is something I've experienced before or something I've done before. So if I do what I haven't done before, then I will learn something. It will be more exciting, more uncomfortable because I haven't done it before. So I'm not sure if I will succeed. But

Johan (11:29.558)

I think I've written like 200 songs, or maybe 100 songs the last two years. I think there are maybe two or three of those songs that I don't like. Like a hand on my heart. And it feels very, very strange to say, because I'm used to like writing maybe 20 songs and liking one, because I was trying to write a good song. So what I kind of did was always to...

do what I thought would be good. And what I thought would be good would be to follow my habits and be very boring because I already knew all the answers. It's like following what's it called, filling out a Sudoku where you already know all the numbers. It's not exciting.

Brian Funk (12:18.562)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (12:20.406)

But doing a fresh one, that's exciting. And the look on your face is just like, that's the look that you, or the face you want to give to your audience. Be like, hey, how did I do this? Here, listen to it. And that's my own favorite songs. It's like, how did I come up with this?

Brian Funk (12:36.63)

Yeah.

Johan (12:46.31)

So often my best ideas are the worst ideas and my best idea, worst ideas, the best ideas. Like when I have the thought this can never become a song, I'm like no, now I need to turn it into a song. And when I'm sitting being like whoa this sounds cool, then I'm like oh no, because then I know I need to delete it. Because when I have that feeling

I know that it's not something that's something I like because if there is something I like then how is it when there's something I think is exciting then it's because it's new and then I don't like it but I'm intrigued by it and I don't like how cool I want my friends to hear I'm all like

this is exciting, but I think my friends hate it when I have that feeling then I know this is exciting and I need to finish this and it's just like It's annoying why it needs to be so hard But I really believe that the harder journey the more exciting it is

Brian Funk (13:57.294)

Thank you.

Johan (14:05.398)

and but by knowing that it kind of becomes easier because it's harder to be in this feeling when you think it should feel good but it's also very strange to tell songwriters it should feel bad or uncomfortable but i truly believe it should

Brian Funk (14:22.179)

Hmm.

Johan (14:33.802)

And what do you think?

Brian Funk (14:37.738)

Well, there's some interesting points there. It sounds like the danger of it is exciting for you. Like, is it gonna work? Is it not gonna work?

Johan (14:46.338)

No, no, I believe, I believe it's more about being in the unknown. Like being in the unknown is just terrifying. And that's why we love habits. I don't like being in the in the unknown.

Johan (15:08.658)

And maybe I didn't hear you, but was it an answer to your response?

Brian Funk (15:17.202)

I think we're on the same page with that in that when you're in the unknown, that's where you have to find solutions, you have to figure things out. Whereas if you're in that position where everything's going smoothly, you're kind of just doing the thing you're used to.

Johan (15:34.142)

You're not creating.

Brian Funk (15:37.75)

You're not inventing new ways. You're not figuring out those exciting ideas as much.

Johan (15:41.749)

Yeah.

okay yeah yes i think so and

Brian Funk (15:51.022)

And it's an interesting place to want to be because there's some element of suffering in there, but a lot of things in life, like you said, you grow from those, even if you took exercise as a metaphor, not much is going to happen if you're not in a difficult position. If it's, if your heart rate isn't going up, if you're not.

testing your muscles in any kind of way, you're not doing it. You're not exercising. You're not going to get those benefits. And I guess with the songwriting too, when you're in those difficult positions, that's where you get your breakthroughs. That's where you get your new ideas and fresh things that feel exciting when you do them.

Johan (16:40.022)

And what does it mean that it's hard? Because it's not hard, it's just a feeling. And I think it's, yeah, it's mind boggling. And a lot of people are just like, I avoid hard. And I'm just like, yeah, but then you wouldn't have your boyfriend or a girlfriend because...

It is hard to be in a relationship and it's hard to actually, yeah, to dare to say hello. But we just like accept it. And it's also like when we have finished a really exciting song. No, that wasn't hard. That was easy. It was fun because the result was so exciting. But while doing it, we don't know it. And I guess that's the hard thing that maybe we will fail. But the funny part is that...

Brian Funk (17:05.442)

That was hard. Yeah. To say hello.

Brian Funk (17:11.115)

Yeah.

Johan (17:34.074)

I never fail because I know if I continue, I will never fail. And I also have the thing that I finish all songs I start. I don't start a new song until I've finished a song. And what I've learned from that is that all songs I end, I'm happy with. Or like, I've never regretted finishing a song.

Brian Funk (17:46.602)

Hmm.

Johan (18:00.962)

And it came from like my dad had cancer and I didn't know what to do. And I just like, okay, uh, I will go into the studio three days in a row and I'm only allowed to get out when I have finished the song and the first day I finished the song and I was just like, wow, the song is really good. And the second day is like almost as good. And the third day I was just like,

wow this sucks but i finished it and that's all that matters and of course i listened to it a month after and guess which songs i liked the most

Brian Funk (18:33.129)

Hmm.

Johan (18:46.566)

Of course I loved the third song. The second song was good. I hated the first song. And that taught me that I have no clue about what I do while I do. So it's like I love that thing. Yeah this isn't good enough for finishing. It's like how do you know?

Brian Funk (18:53.677)

Really?

Brian Funk (19:10.922)

Hmm.

Johan (19:11.274)

Can you time travel? It's like I have finished all my songs, all my favorite songs. When I was at your stage I thought they were shit because they were actually challenging and that's why they were the best songs to finish because they challenged me to actually find some creative solutions which made it an exciting process and an exciting song.

It's just like...

Johan (19:44.386)

thing about fighting our intuition and understanding that yeah we came this far because we're really good at protecting ourselves from danger and the problem is just that we think that writing a song is dangerous and being creative is dangerous but it isn't but our brain and heart is just hardwired that way so we can even

Brian Funk (20:05.4)

Alright.

Johan (20:10.246)

get high pulse and like everything as like if we're chased but it's just like but it isn't and for me reminding myself about that and understanding that makes everything a hundred times more fun and also everyone I teach about it and it's just like this thing about whoa now I just write cool songs yeah exactly

Brian Funk (20:28.855)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (20:38.301)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (20:39.802)

And it's just like this. I just want to write a cool song. It's actually easy when you know what a cool song is. But when you don't know what a cool song is, it's like this chase from being like, what is a cool song? Hmm. I will just start and then I will probably figure it out. And then the problem is for every thing you do, you need to like, is this cool or isn't it cool? And that's stressful when you don't know what cool is.

But it's easy to say, does this excite me or doesn't it excite me? And then I also came up with the third tool, which is amazing. If I should say myself, I was, I was at the music conservatorium and all my friends didn't want to teach kids because they thought they were boring and they didn't do what they told them to do. And I was like,

Yeah, that sounds like kids. So I was like, what did I want to do as a kid that I never got to do? Because all the teachers said, you're going to only do that when you get older. So one of the things was of course to improvise and the other thing was to write songs. And so I started writing songs with these kids and they always just choose one chord and then was like.

I made the rule for every time you need a new chord you need to find three options and then when you have three options you can decide which chord you like the most because music is about figuring out what you think what excites you the most or what you like the most which hopefully is the same thing and so music is basically just about choosing and what professionals are good at.

is hearing a lot of options at once while making music and beginners don't. So for beginners it's so extremely important to have like three options so they can actually choose what they like the most.

Johan (22:52.722)

What I just realized is that technique worked for all my students, beginner students, which has never written a song or chord progression before, and they wrote chord progressions which I thought were 10 times more exciting than my own chord progressions. So I was like, hmm, maybe I should start to do that myself.

And I started doing this myself and all my friends too. And we just started figuring out that all the things we hear in our mind is our habits.

So when we sit down and play like a C major then it's like a oh the next thing I hear is an A minor Okay, so what could be another thing? C major to G major. Hmm. Yeah, that's more out there C to like but then

I took it one step further. So for every chord change you need to listen to all 24 options and choose the three you like the most and then choose the one from those three you like the most. And you need to try to do that. You will just realize how

extremely exciting chords are because when you get to hear so many chords and get to actually hear all of these combinations that you would never dream of you suddenly start to realize that there are so much more music to explore than what i thought at least. I was like when i was a kid i was always so envious of nirvana and beetles because

Johan (24:39.606)

they could just do whatever and nobody had done it before. And I was just like, that's easy. But the funny thing is still that way. But we just need to do like they did and don't do like everybody else does. And then it gets exciting. But the fun thing which I wanted to tell about is that one thing I preach and everything I do is the overdue, which is...

find three solutions before you choose one, because then you can actually choose what you like the most, which again will like give your love to your listeners and make it easier to make decisions. I have spent so much time sitting there, is this good enough? And like looking back I'm like, I just have made like...

a hundred alternatives in the same amount of time I spent speculating if this is good or bad enough and it's just like I think it's crazy and extremely exciting

Brian Funk (25:50.158)

Hmm.

a cool way to go about it because in those moments when you start thinking is this good enough is this clever enough is this cool enough rather than sitting through that just pick from three options that's easy it's a lot easier the world of infinite options is terrifying when I can go anywhere in the world I want to go it every time I make a choice it's really like that I'm gonna play the bass I'm gonna play this

Johan (26:06.182)

Yeah, it's extremely easy.

Brian Funk (26:22.77)

go anywhere in the world, but if I limit it to just the three, then I can say, okay, cool, I went that way. And then the next thing...

Johan (26:32.138)

And you can even do it with a good conscience that you have actually been present and selected what you liked the most. So you have actually also done your best. Which I think is just incredible because most often I believe that to do our best we need to spend so much time thinking about it. Which doesn't help.

Brian Funk (26:42.983)

I tested it.

Mm-hmm.

Johan (26:57.014)

But now instead we can just choose to spend two minutes and have done our best.

Brian Funk (26:57.326)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (27:04.182)

Well, that's more like doing your best than thinking about doing your best. Right? Like thinking about it's not doing it. It's just, hmm, maybe, maybe I could do that. I don't know. But when you actually do three things and then of the three, this was my best. It's a good way to make those decisions.

Johan (27:11.582)

Exactly. No one thinking is just like judging.

Johan (27:26.002)

and then if you add like one more layer then for every time for example if you need to find make three chord progressions then if you make the three chord progressions as contrasting as possible

then you will also get to like go beyond what you normally do and because you make three you are allowed to make bad ones which will set you free to actually make exciting ones and

Suddenly, for example, if you make a chord progression with only minor chords by accident, then the next one can be with only major chords, and then the third one can be like, hmm, I need to use both, but the two first chord progressions, the chords have equal length. So the third will be different length, all of the chords.

And suddenly it's just like solving a solution with obstacles that just came to you for free. And it's so easy. And it's just like, I've spent so much time making chord progressions. Like what is a good chord progression and what is chord progression is about? I have so many times playing so beautiful things and been like, wow.

Let's make a song and then somebody is like, make a beautiful chord progression. I'm like, I can do that. I do that all the time. And then I sit and like, everything is beautiful and boring. But when it's suddenly this challenge is like. I made it. I fulfill my challenge and.

Johan (29:10.334)

it makes it easier to focus on.

Johan (29:16.226)

I actually don't know. But I think maybe being creative.

Johan (29:27.35)

that means but at least i think it makes 10 million times easier to write songs and even good songs and that's

extremely exciting, I think.

Brian Funk (29:46.701)

Hmm.

Johan (29:51.574)

Okay, I will talk through. And doing all of these overdoing things, I think, makes the songwriting process so much shorter because you don't overthink everything.

I think songwriting, the songwriting process doesn't take long. I think it's thinking about all the things that takes a very long time and then procrastinating, mixing because you don't know what to do and then, oh now I know what to do and the mixing, yeah, we scrap that. And also when doing the...

Brian Funk (30:15.374)

Hmm.

Johan (30:27.162)

the three options, you will also get inspired. Like should I add a bass or should I add a keyboard or should I? And then if I do all three things, then I will experience different things about my song and get new exciting ideas. And there's just this thing about doing too much and we are... I've always been afraid of doing too much because it's just uncomfortable doing something that...

It's maybe just a waste of time, even though it's completely stupid.

but from overdoing I just get the most crazy beautiful ideas. I was always like when I was working with others then they came with an idea and I have been playing guitar by ear since I was three years old and my ears are extremely good so I can imagine everything I thought. So they came with an idea like blah and I was just like bad idea. Let's do this. And when I realized how wrong I was

idea. And

Johan (31:35.39)

I also don't think that there has been bad ideas besides when I have worked with people who wanted to save things. So it's like, shouldn't we do like they did? Like do you say it because you think it's exciting or because you think it will be good? And that's a difficult question to answer, of course. But most often it's like...

Brian Funk (31:55.918)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Johan (32:01.97)

I think it will be good because theirs is good. And then it's like, then I don't think it's exciting, but if you're up for like making it on our own way, then I'm up for like trying to implement this thing in an exciting way in something where we can't imagine it. And then it can, yeah, everything can become exciting if we dare to.

actually continue until we think it's exciting. Yeah, I always feel like...

Brian Funk (32:35.862)

It's a good distinction that good versus exciting because we might be copying something we heard, or we might be trying to mimic something because it's like safe. It's a safety and like this will be good compared to the risk of excitement.

Johan (32:56.925)

I think good means even though we don't believe it ourselves, good means other people will like it. And I have never heard the word being said in a way where it didn't mean that when an artist said that themselves. Because if I make a song and I love it, then I will say, I love this song.

I will never say it's good. It's like I have just made this song, it's so good. Can you hear it? It feels more like I think this is gonna sell. It doesn't tell anything about what I think. So when I think really I hate the word good because it...

Brian Funk (33:36.714)

Right.

Johan (33:45.318)

Yeah, because I believe that when we say good, no matter if that's what we think we say, it does mean I... Good, sorry, good means what other people's like. So if I've made a good song, that is because I have made a song I believe other people like. And try to like imagine or think about it the next time you use good.

It doesn't mean that when you say something about others music, then it can be I think it's good which just means I like it. But when you do it about your own or try to make good music, try to think about it and let me know. I've talked a lot about it with other people and most people just say like it doesn't mean that and I'm like

Brian Funk (34:41.23)

Thank you.

Johan (34:43.762)

Okay, but what does it mean? It just means that I like it.

Johan (34:50.114)

So you're trying to make music that you like. Why is that hard? Yeah, because... so you don't know what you like. No, but it's like... Okay, let's pretend that good means that other people like it. Let's pretend you have just made a base and you need to figure out if it's good. Why is that hard? It's because you don't know what other people like. Yeah.

Brian Funk (34:54.518)

Mm.

Johan (35:18.822)

And if you say that it's because that good means if you like it, that's not hard to feel. It's easy to feel if I like it myself or not. And the most beautiful part is that I don't believe that there's anything bad about making music that everyone should like or not everyone, but that I don't think there's anything bad about making good music.

Brian Funk (35:42.626)

That's good.

Johan (35:46.87)

But we just need to know that making good music is about making music that you think is exciting. And that is the really big turning point for me. Because I've always been like, you should make music for your own sake and you can never like, you should never commercialize and you should never unlike. But the most beautiful thing is that the biggest music out there, it's really powerful.

And it's not powerful because it was designed to be powerful. It was powerful because there's a lot of people putting their hearts into this music. It's like listen to Britney Spears or anyone. When you listen to the lyrics, you don't think, is she meaning what she's singing? No, you're thinking about that's stupid or wow, or because it's just like, it's powerful.

So commercial music is commercial and good because people have put a lot of excitement into their music and that was also a big turning point for me, turning point, aha moment for me.

I usually use a Danish singer which everybody hates but it's like then I make them listen to the her lyrics and how she sing it and it's just like Wow, yeah, she is good So the word good it's really bad But if we understand good, I think Everything is easier

But about the thing with good, this is something I've thought about when I...

Johan (40:38.454)

That's nice.

Johan (40:53.055)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (40:56.27)

play music for people that aren't really like music creators or big music fans. Right. So I think a lot of my music would be bad to them because it's not always following just the kind of

I like to make it sound weird. You know, I can't resist. I like to make it sound lo-fi. I like to make it sound a little vintage, or I like to make something harsh somewhere, or something heavy somewhere. Whereas I sometimes think if it was more...

I don't know, straight forward or something, then people like that would think it's good. You know what I'm saying? Um, without the, too many risks.

Johan (41:45.962)

I know what you're saying, you're saying very many and... Yeah, but I'm not sure about that. Oh, there are so many exciting subjects. I think what you're talking about is very much about how you introduce them to your music.

Johan (42:12.574)

And I also think that I've heard that question a lot of times. I think the hardest people to get truly like original feedback from with feelings, instead of like, I can see that you have done an effort. Good boy. I think a lot of musicians, they're like,

Brian Funk (42:36.775)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (42:39.798)

That's really nice because you did everything and blah and blah and then if you ask them would you put this music on yourself it's like yeah and it's like a big no.

Brian Funk (42:51.394)

Haha. If it was all I ever had again.

Johan (42:57.958)

No, but it's like... I think this is also... I'm very, very afraid of saying something hurtful. Yeah, and just people in general with these things. Because I've been there myself and a lot of times when I have felt like that...

Brian Funk (43:07.906)

To me?

Brian Funk (43:14.538)

No, I won't be offended, I promise.

Johan (43:28.318)

it has been like this protection layer for myself. It's really complicated, but it's not. So you do electronic music. Where do you sing?

Brian Funk (43:48.286)

Yeah. I used my voice.

Johan (43:51.449)

I heard something okay I just need to listen to a bit I really wanted to be really good and check up on you but I haven't

Brian Funk (44:00.81)

Well, I think, you know, whatever you're gonna pick could be anywhere. I've definitely not picked a genre or settled on any kind of style, which might be the good thing to do.

Johan (44:13.524)

No, okay.

Johan (44:18.402)

Yeah, but... Okay. I think it's... I think it's a lot about presentation. If you play people something, and tell them why you like it, and why it's really exciting to you, then I think for the... one of two things will happen.

Either you will realize that hmm do you actually think this is extremely exciting or they will understand what you have done. I've heard a lot of people be like yeah I did this and this and this and then I did this cool thing and then and it's like hmm doesn't sound that exciting or it's like it is I haven't I haven't felt like this.

Wow experience. I haven't, I haven't experienced that you have had like a really genuine exciting moment in doing this. And if you haven't had that, then it's really hard to translate that experience to me.

Or maybe there hasn't been this struggle where you actually had to, which is maybe that experience, this struggle where you had to find your way out. And maybe it has, but it was just like this tiny moment. And what you will then realize is that most people will love that moment.

or maybe not love it but react to it because it had like this certain energy. I don't believe in God or anything but I do believe in energy somehow. It's hard to like... I think it's very hard to like describe that.

Johan (46:17.918)

I think we can feel when other people are excited, even with closed eyes, if someone exciting steps in the room and we are loud music and we can see, I think we can feel it because there's just some feeling about it and I think it translates through recordings, I think it translates through everything. And I think we forget about exploring that feeling when we make music.

Brian Funk (46:31.952)

Hmm.

Johan (46:47.034)

I know I have done it myself for 25 years. So it's not like, yeah, I'm trying to give everything out. I've learned to prevent others from doing the same mistake I did because I have made so much music and just been like, why doesn't people love it? I'm so good. I have done all the right things. I'm like, now I'm just like...

Idiot. But of course, because I did all the right things and I was good and I played like one of the best, but it just wasn't... it didn't excite me and it's really strange to... it excited me that I was good. It excited me that I was capable of it.

It made me excited that I could stuff that they couldn't. It excited me that I had ears that could play. I could I could like hear a song and then I could guess the rest of the song. But that was extremely exciting because it's exciting to be good or be not talented. But yeah, when you have skills.

But making art and expressing yourself has nothing to do with skills. Unless being brave is a skill. Maybe it is. I think it is. And I have never heard anybody say that you need to be brave to make music that... Okay, this is hard. Matters.

But be brave to make music that will move other people. Because it's like, making music is like telling a story. And if you don't dare to tell something interesting, then your story will not be very exciting. It's like, I just went shopping. Yeah, and then I bought ice cream.

Johan (49:03.562)

but by just like including a small secret, then my story will be exciting. I just went shopping and then I went to the, what's it called, where you buy hot dogs and...

I wanted to buy five, but I was embarrassed. So I bought two and then I bought three more. Then suddenly, because this was a bit embarrassing for me, then it had some value. Because now suddenly you'd be like, hmm, that reminds me of when I did something where I also had this feeling. And

I haven't gone through with where this all ends but there is something about having a struggling and getting past it which we just love seeing. It's just like in television programs and everything. And I think it's something about that it gives us a belief something yeah something very big. Yeah and it's like the hope of meaning.

Brian Funk (50:11.05)

It's a connection thing. Uh, even, even what you said with this idea of I wanted five, but I bought three and then bought two because I was embarrassed. It makes you think of times when you've purposely done something in a weird way and gone out of your way because you were embarrassed, you changed your root or you all these like silly things we do that are really private moments. It's a connection point where, um,

we can kind of latch onto and be like, oh yeah, I'm weird like that too.

Johan (50:46.894)

Yeah and I also it gives each other space to be us because I think if I have a secret then I feel left alone. So when I know that oh Johan has a secret too. Oh I'm not alone. And I don't know.

Brian Funk (51:09.799)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (51:13.908)

I have learned that I have ADHD and therefore I want to understand everything.

Johan (51:22.638)

So in music I just believe that the more we share the more struggles the more we give and the more there is to get. And I think a lot of music is without... Sorry. A lot of music doesn't have that much. Yeah. And solutions. And...

Brian Funk (51:36.452)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (51:45.59)

the struggle.

Johan (51:52.658)

I have like I figured out my way of deciding if my songs are done or not. And it's pretty simple. And it is, have I learned something new? Yeah. Then I can go to each instrument. Uh, has this instrument, uh, taught me something new? Have I done it in a new way? Nope. Okay. It's not done. And then I can go and redo everything until.

I've actually learned something new with everything I've done. I can't do this more excitingly. Or I can, because I can add something I've never added before. But that's not important. But it's more important that I don't do anything that's left hand work. Because why would I like... It's like...

course you can it's also of course a question of how much you want to give and how much time you have to do everything but

Johan (52:58.37)

This is maybe not very healthy and that's maybe how I think, which is very bad. But why give something to others that you have only spent half of your energy on? And I'm learning to do that because you can't always do a hundred percent and maybe you do without noticing. But I think the beautiful thing is like, remember to do an effort on something that you are giving away for other people.

and the effort is work and the more effort is more struggles and for me it has just made everything a hundred times more easy to understand and whenever i have made a song which is like

This doesn't do anything to me. Then I'm just like, ah, I've done everything the way I usually do. Of course. And it's just like mind blowing. Um, that it's, it works. I have, um, I have like these greater sessions where, uh, it's five hours zoom sessions where that can be up to 12th anticipants.

Brian Funk (54:01.307)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (54:20.502)

and then they all get one prompt for writing chords, melodies, form and lyrics. Yeah and they're only allowed to use one instrument I give them and

They have to overdo, so every time they need to write one melody, they need to write three. Every time they need to write one chord progression, they write three. So they normally write six chord progressions.

Johan (54:57.098)

All the songs are always like, wow. And you just, it's so exciting because the session always ends with them sharing their songs they've written. The first reaction is they actually wrote a song in two and a half hours, which most of them has never done before. And the next reaction is that it feels very weird because it's like this.

Is this me? This is not me. Have I written this? And this is, this is bad. And those who feel like that, they then replied two days later, sorry, I love the song because it's hard to love something that is new to yourself. New never sounds good. And, and the most beautiful thing is that they get to actually realize that

Brian Funk (55:46.931)

Hmm.

Johan (55:54.11)

It doesn't sound good when you have made something good at first. But the most beautiful thing is just that it works that when they do something new, it just becomes beautiful. And it's people I've never met before. And when they play their song, you can, it's like, you get to know them because.

When everything is good, then we can all do the same. But it's when everything is messed up, we start to react in the way that we are. I played jazz for a long time and my favorite moments were when people messed up because then when they saved the situation, they would really show how they play or do because it's like, oh, I'm cool. And this was exciting. Oh, wait.

I just played this note, if I keep playing it then I can do it. And other people were like oh fuck and then run away. And it just shows so much about who you are when you don't know or when you're in a situation where you need to create the solutions. And when you already know the solutions then we all often do the same and that's also why it's...

Brian Funk (56:57.169)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (57:15.806)

it maybe as an artist also feels a bit boring because I've heard this before. It's good. I've heard it before. I'm not sure why I don't like it but because it feels good. And it's this struggle about it needs to feel good but it's only when it feels bad it's exciting. And when you don't learn that I have never been taught that and it's just

how can you actually get to this place if you are never learning this magic like luckily you learn it by working with others because when you work with others and you actually work together then it happens that i want this i want this oh it didn't get how we want it to be oh wait it became cool

Brian Funk (58:11.498)

Hmm.

Johan (58:11.622)

and that was also where i got the idea for because i wanted to work by myself so it's like what is it that you do with collapse you uh challenge each other's and get new start impulses so you end somewhere new ah uh but i just yeah i think this is so extremely important and i don't understand why it's not like one of the most taught subjects in music

Brian Funk (58:27.086)

Hmm.

Johan (58:41.906)

but I'm trying

Brian Funk (58:45.454)

It's a great point, and especially with collaborating too, because it can be tempting to want to get to a certain spot. And in that way, it's kind of like, well, then why do you need to work together on this? Why not just copy what already happened? Or why not just repeat what was done? But when the collaborations get interesting is when...

Johan (58:55.199)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (59:11.79)

something unexpected happens that causes you to think of something unexpected, which in turn is another unexpected thing from the next person. The next thing you know, you're in totally uncharted territories.

Johan (59:19.998)

Exactly.

Johan (59:24.454)

And the beautiful thing is that when you have done something new, then it feels uncomfortable for you. But let's say that you're collabing with another guy, then the other guy can see it as a beautiful thing. In the winter, I had this moment where I was making a bass.

And I just like deleted it before I even like anything. And the guy was just like, this is the coolest thing in the whole universe. And if I hadn't gone to the point where I am now, I would have been like, I'm done collabing because that is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. But knowing that I'm so stupid myself, I was just like, wow, I must be stupid because what I just played is the worst thing I've ever heard.

Yeah, you are. And I just edited a little bit and then we listened and I was like, two more repeats and maybe I'm there. And it was one of the coolest things. And it made me so sad because I was just like, there are so many great ideas that I throw away when I'm on my own. But.

Brian Funk (01:00:35.819)

Yeah.

Johan (01:00:39.058)

then there are so many other things that happen, so it's really good.

Brian Funk (01:00:45.326)

Well, we kind of started talking in the middle of jamuary, right? Or doing a jam every day. And that's a situation where you don't really have time usually to decide if something's good or not. This is how it is for me. Like I don't have time. Like I waited till like eight 39 o'clock to start today. So I don't have time. I got to get this thing done and finished. And.

Johan (01:00:49.936)

Yeah.

Johan (01:01:01.407)

Exactly.

Brian Funk (01:01:14.698)

There were so many days to your point where I kind of felt like, all right, I just kind of threw something together, but I got it done and I put it out. And then listening back, I'm like, wow, that was, that was something. There was something going on there that I just thought was not really anything interesting or anything worth really pursuing, but it's exciting now because I haven't taken the safe.

choices or I haven't done the normal things, I just did what came out.

Johan (01:01:48.978)

Also when you have to do it for 31 days, you have to figure out something new every day and at some point you run out of habits. Even if you try.

Brian Funk (01:01:58.498)

Well, the thing that saved me is I made prompts for my music production club. I made them for all 31 days, sent them out. Some of them had just suggestions. Some of them were titles. Some of them were, here's a sound pack to work with, whatever it is, you know? And I didn't expect to rely on them so much myself. But, you know, by the time they were coming out and I'd open up the day's prompt, I'd be like, oh, okay, all right, all right, we're going with that.

Johan (01:02:05.002)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:02:28.31)

And it just gave me that direction to take because otherwise I was staring at the screen thinking I wanna make something cool instead of I wanna make, I'm gonna make this, I'm gonna solve this problem.

Johan (01:02:42.174)

Exactly. And I also did the January Session last year and while doing it I hated everything I did. I think there were maybe two songs I was like it's okay but I hated it and I hated it so much that my friend who also did it he was just like have you listened to your song shit? I was like nope.

Not gonna do it and this was like four years after my realization that I know nothing But I had such bad feelings about everything I did so I was just like Nope, not gonna listen to it and It took me Nine months to open And I love most of it

Johan (01:03:36.194)

But yeah, problems and not think. And that's again a new subject because what does it mean to think? There's this thought about you're not allowed to think. And that's rubbish, I think. I think thinking is the most beautiful thing there is in life, but we can't judge. And that's being aware of that we judge is just...

For me, magical, because judging is this good, is this bad, should I have done something else? And when we do this, we stop the process to do something that we can't do, because we are making a song and we don't know the song before it's done. And how can we judge something that we don't know? We can make guesses.

But you know, your guesses is shit, my guesses are shit too. So what I have learned is that I try to overdo and then when I have made a decision, I never go back. I really love not doing that because

If I don't go back, it's like making a tower that if I change this brick, then everything on top will fall. And then suddenly we will have like this crazy construction. And often when we want to go back, it's just because we have had an idea for something to build on top of, which doesn't fit. But it's like, yeah, but then it doesn't fit. So it's, we need to make something else. So believing in it.

Brian Funk (01:05:08.152)

Hmm.

Johan (01:05:24.774)

And if we believe, then we don't need that much time. We don't need to think so much. We just need to do. And when we do, we get ideas, we get new solutions, we get so much given that we can never get by thinking. Because thinking, we can't really think of new things. I thought I could, I truly thought I could think of new, exciting ideas. I can't.

But I can think of concepts that I can find solutions for. I can think of like, how would it sound if Brian Funk wrote a Ransby song? I have no clue. Would love to hear. And it would be what's called a struggle, a problem to find a creative solution. And...

Brian Funk (01:05:59.726)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:06:18.69)

Hmm.

Johan (01:06:23.662)

For me it's just so important to remember that we can think of things that makes us so inspired like this. If we dare to think of a problem.

Brian Funk (01:06:39.966)

You know, pretty much any time you hear about somebody that did something really innovative with music, right? They didn't conceptualize it first and then get to work. And it's sort of like they came across it during the process, so they figured it out, they stumbled into it. And I was just seeing, I just saw a video with Eddie Van Halen talking about finger tapping.

Johan (01:06:40.126)

Yeah.

Johan (01:06:47.924)

Yeah.

Johan (01:06:57.078)

Did they?

Brian Funk (01:07:09.29)

And he's like, I didn't invent that. You know, he's like, I was watching Led Zeppelin. I was watching Jimmy Page do some kind of like hammer-on thing. And I just thought, I'm going to just put my finger here and play with it. What if I did that? You know, it wasn't like, he's like, I'm going to invent this new style of playing. It was just, he wanted to see what would happen while he was playing. If he did something different that he hadn't tried before. And.

Johan (01:07:12.526)

Okay, yeah

Brian Funk (01:07:38.718)

It just seems like that's always the case. People don't sit there and like decide they're going to do these weird things. They're in there working. There's a problem. And this is what they figured out to do. Turns out it changes the world sometimes. Sometimes it's a better way to do it. Sometimes it's just weird and interesting, but you don't hear people saying like, I was on the bus thinking. And I decided.

Johan (01:08:03.846)

And I wanted to like invent pincin- pinci- ba How do you say it? Pincin-alin? What's it go- Penicillin, thank you. It's like nobody sat down. I wanna invent penicillin. It was an accident. And- or an experiment.

Brian Funk (01:08:11.33)

Penicillin. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:08:19.491)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:08:24.567)

Right.

Johan (01:08:25.59)

But yeah, and that's another topic I love. How artists talk about how they make music. I hate it. How artists like, because for beginners,

they believe what they say. I think most people believe what they say because the artists themselves believe what they say. It's like Mariah Carey say that yeah I did this and then I knew that this would work because I did like this and this and this and this and everything that matters is that the true story for all great music and sorry for a changing subject.

is oh i came and then i did this exciting thing and then there was a problem and then i figured out that i could do this exciting thing and then i did this exciting thing and it's just like

Johan (01:09:31.838)

everything is just about that we do something that's exciting and then oh this happened i will release this like the penicillin or like the like everything

Brian Funk (01:09:42.17)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:09:49.538)

Yeah, thinking about like the Beatles, for instance, they seem so magical, you know, but when you hear them talk about themselves, they're kind of like, oh, we're just a bunch of guys making songs. And I think of like one of their kind of big moments they had was like the end of the Abbey Road album, where all those songs are kind of stitched together, right? And they flow into each other. And it sounds like this really...

It's just a great way to end the record. It's so much momentum builds. But it was a problem that we had all these unfinished songs. It wasn't this idea of like, let's write all these songs that weave into each other. It was a problem. And they said, let's stick them together. And, and then you hear it, you see the final project, the product, and you're like, wow, it's, it's amazing how it all works together and it came out so cool. But it wouldn't have happened if they were just.

Johan (01:10:24.837)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:10:46.826)

They just didn't think of it that way. They didn't think of the big thing first. They thought of the little parts of the problem, the bricks they had to put together one by one, and it turned into that.

Johan (01:10:49.203)

No.

Johan (01:10:58.25)

And that's just the cool thing about solving problems that you don't know the solution for, because that's the most exciting solutions there are. Because you do something that's never been done before. And I have done a lot of things that have never been done before.

And it's magical. It's like this. I remember the first time it was just like, wow. I love radio heads. So I was just like, wow, I just did like radio head. Because I've always thought of like, how did radio help make Kid A? How did Beatles make the revolver? How did how did Beck make? Yeah, everything. And it's just like. Ah.

Brian Funk (01:11:34.85)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:11:40.013)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (01:11:50.722)

They experimented and did new things every time. And while I had gone through trying to make the perfect formula for writing a song, where they had gone through like, how many different ways can we figure out to write and produce songs? I was just like, ah, of course. And it's...

this yeah it's this problem and doing new things will give new problems and new solutions and everyone all of my students starts with asking what is the right way what is the best way and i'm like yeah the best way there is actually one best way and that's to do it differently every time and then they look at me that's not what you say no but then he's wrong yeah but that's beyonce

Brian Funk (01:12:33.953)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (01:12:48.123)

She doesn't do it the same way every time, I promise you. How do you know? Because if she did, then her songs would sound the same. They don't. And it's just like...

Brian Funk (01:12:52.855)

Yeah.

Johan (01:13:04.562)

I just wanna shout that...

It's all about learning. And when you learn, you will do something truly magnificent. And if you're brave, do something new. Learning takes bravery. And admitting that also makes it easier to just be like, I don't want to do this. Hey, wait, I want to do it. It's just really scary because I don't know how to do it. I've avoided learning for like...

Brian Funk (01:13:22.81)

Hmm.

Johan (01:13:37.374)

when I came to the music conservatory I was so good that I was so bad I was so scared of looking bad so I was I only did what I was good at and then all of my co-students which were just like yeah I just do what I exciting they learned all of the most exciting things and made all the most exciting music and I was 10 times better at them playing guitar but made boring

Johan (01:14:07.326)

And then I got the really good habit of getting drunk. But that made my music more better because when I was drunk, then I didn't care for anything. So I just did what was exciting. I unfortunately didn't. Yeah, reckless really, but extremely exciting for both me and my audience. I've had so many extreme experiences of like.

Brian Funk (01:14:21.854)

Reckless.

Johan (01:14:35.206)

Once I was like, the concert started with the band leader. He said, Johan, don't take too much space today. And I was just like, no.

I need to take too much space today. And we were playing at this legendary place in Copenhagen, which is also like a weed club. And people just go there because it's nice, always good music, and you can smoke weed and everything is good. And you need to play loud to play there. And...

I just started playing and then the lead guy, he was just like saying to the band, if Johan took too much time, so he's gonna play alone. And I was just there being so like, I will do this alone then. And this was so fun for me. So the whole club just quiet down, just got totally silent. Never happened before, I think.

I was just because I thought it was so funny. So everything that I did was like, oh, this is fun. So I played so loud and the whole club was quiet. Everybody was just like, what is going on? But it was so simple. I thought it was so exciting. And I had no fear at all because I was too drunk to think of fear. And for me, it's just like...

story about how powerful doing what excites you is. But also of course of how difficult it is not to feel the fear also. And also the story don't play drunk. But yeah, I'm sober now.

Brian Funk (01:16:34.218)

It can be helpful to take advantage of the lack of inhibitions that you might get, but it's not a good long-term strategy. The tipping point is really easy to cross, but the sentiment makes a lot of sense. When you're playing, especially in front of people, you're kind of in charge of the energy in the room.

Johan (01:16:42.159)

Yeah.

Johan (01:16:46.857)

No.

Johan (01:17:02.059)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:17:02.546)

to sort of bring it back to what you said in the beginning when you get like people that play and they look like they're too cool for it or they're bored by it. It's never a good show but if you bring the enthusiasm it's hard to deny a group of people playing music that are just having so much fun even if you don't like the music and you just look at them you're like look at how much fun they're having like it's hard not to smile back and feel something from it.

Johan (01:17:32.926)

And I think that applies to your question about sharing your strange music for your non-musician friends. That if you truly apply this excitement to your music, then I don't believe that people won't like it somehow. And I fear myself. So I think it's harsh, but it's also... it gives something to work with.

Brian Funk (01:17:58.122)

Yeah. Well-

I think we have like a, an understanding of like what good is, right? Um, that it's got us. Well, if you were to ask just anybody off the street, like is this, does this sound good? You know, they'd be listening for certain markers, I guess, like.

Johan (01:18:10.194)

I love it when we share it.

Johan (01:18:28.577)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:18:29.95)

Are they a good singer? Are they a good musician? Are they... Is it a good recording? Does it sound up to the standard? But I guess what I'm saying is like a lot of what I like plays with that. Where, I mean a lot of my favorite singers, they're not going to win the talent show, the American idols and you know, whoever's got talent.

Johan (01:18:48.746)

No.

Johan (01:18:52.438)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:18:54.218)

but it's something else that's interesting. And you could go online and find musicians that are 10 times better than any of the world-class stars out there. But they're not really interesting, other than, wow, that's really good. But kind of like, who cares? After a while, you watch a few of those, and it's like, you're not moved.

Johan (01:19:06.644)

Yeah.

Johan (01:19:10.486)

No, they are not brave.

Johan (01:19:16.13)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:19:22.358)

beyond just it's impressive how fast maybe these fingers can move. It's a different.

Johan (01:19:28.426)

I don't understand that Team Henson. I really want to understand him. Isn't it Team Henson? Yeah, Polyphia. And I'm...

Brian Funk (01:19:35.478)

That's Polithea. I don't know enough to comment.

Johan (01:19:42.478)

I love that people love it and I won't say anything bad about him besides I don't get it at all. And I think that's really exciting because I love that guitar music is like up there and I love that he has reinvented the guitar. But I think it has never it's like I feel the way that when he does it he is just like yeah I can do it and it just doesn't give it to me.

Brian Funk (01:19:49.975)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:20:11.174)

like the music itself isn't moving you or anything.

Johan (01:20:12.894)

Yeah, also the music itself and just his vibes. And I'm really curious of why. Well, you have like, I don't know how to say it. Kyr Kupiying? The guitar trio with the woman, woman bass player and the, what's it? Funky drummer. You know it. I just don't know how to say the name.

Johan (01:20:45.018)

K-H-R-U-A-N... Yeah, Krang Bin. There must be some... Because when you hear them play, there's like this tension and you can just feel that they love playing together. And I get that. But with the Polyphia it's just like...

Brian Funk (01:20:47.91)

I don't know how to say it either. Yeah, I know. Yeah, we'll have to put that in the show notes or something. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:21:03.863)

Mm.

Johan (01:21:08.182)

But I love that I don't get it and I would love to find someone who gets it to explain why.

Brian Funk (01:21:17.262)

Yeah, I'm not too familiar with it. I've seen maybe little clips of him playing and it's a lot of intricate, crazy tapping guitar stuff that's, there's, there's like a new thing happening with guitar players with all this like interesting tapping that I haven't personally done much investigating with. Hasn't really, I'm 43.

Johan (01:21:23.175)

faces.

Johan (01:21:38.698)

How old are you?

Johan (01:21:42.922)

Oh, okay. But then I can make the joke. I thought you were younger. I'm 34. So I was about to say, so maybe it's because we're getting old. I have been I have been thinking about that, but I don't want to believe in it.

Brian Funk (01:21:45.42)

So, I don't know.

Brian Funk (01:21:56.525)

I could think.

Brian Funk (01:22:03.402)

Well, like a lot of the music I grew up listening to as a kid was like, wasn't about that. It was Nirvana. It was like that scene where it was new and exciting. Yeah.

Johan (01:22:09.214)

No. But that was also new and exciting at that time. That was reinventing everything. It's just like Polyphia it was. And your parents told you that it's shit music. Because it was just new and it didn't have any emotion. And that's kind of funny to think about.

Brian Funk (01:22:19.169)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:22:23.111)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:22:32.286)

Yeah, I know and their parents were saying the same thing to them about their music. There's, I mean that's just bound to happen I guess that we, I don't know, we don't see it, don't get it.

Johan (01:22:33.014)

Now I feel even older.

Johan (01:22:37.733)

Yeah.

Johan (01:22:44.274)

I need to learn to understand that it must be the cure for never getting old and never dying.

Brian Funk (01:22:54.702)

I like to think I can see what it is, usually. But I know there are definitely cases, like I'm a high school teacher, so I get to see sometimes what the younger kids are listening to. And there's definitely some times where I'm like, I just don't get it. I don't know.

Johan (01:22:58.118)

Yeah, me too, but I can't and...

Johan (01:23:12.982)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:23:18.05)

I don't know that a lot of them, I don't have as many kids that are into music the way I think I was at my age, where it was such a big part of our identity. What we chose to listen to really, it was a statement if you like, put on that shirt or something, and it's not, doesn't seem to feel that way anymore.

Johan (01:23:26.138)

No.

Johan (01:23:30.963)

Yeah.

Johan (01:23:46.682)

Yeah, but I'm not sure about it. I feel the same way, but I'm just thinking of all of my young students.

Johan (01:23:58.838)

It's, I think for us, we were more focused on artists and albums. And now it's just so much more about the singles because I have, I have some of my really close students and they just sometimes send me singles and it's like, this just means everything to me. Just like when I shared my albums, or

I need to think more about that.

But yeah, music is something different. Hopefully good and bad.

Brian Funk (01:24:37.45)

Yeah, there's a lot of other things too to latch onto, you know, that we didn't have.

Johan (01:24:43.926)

yeah but also now you have like you have just like streaming services and airpods which sounds 10 times better than what i had and you can always have it and it wasn't something i had access to

Brian Funk (01:25:09.25)

I don't know. Well, a lot of the music too that I got into, I might have bought the record for one or two songs and then the rest of it grew on me. I learned to like it and I wonder, I mean, I don't give music the same chance I used to give it because I'm streaming stuff and it doesn't catch me right away.

Johan (01:25:18.022)

learn the whole album yeah

Johan (01:25:27.642)

Yeah, and I don't like that. No. There is also like this peaceful piano movement and everything. And it somehow makes me sad that we try to like... that there's such a huge demand for music with at least...

it called contrast and danger or like it's yeah for me it feels sad but there's

Brian Funk (01:26:08.822)

Well a lot of music is, I mean even if you look at a lot of the playlists, it's almost music that you can ignore. Where you put it on for a certain purpose just to be in the background.

Johan (01:26:21.174)

Yeah, but yeah, but I also think that it's not true for a lot of people who is just only listening to the bass and the lyrics, which is how most non-musicians listens to music. And maybe it's just like actually optimized for that. And that's why it seems so boring for musicians.

Johan (01:26:50.694)

I don't know. But I have something I want to talk about, because that's actually...

Brian Funk (01:26:56.686)

Hmm.

Johan (01:27:00.554)

because you... oh yeah, okay, because I watched your videos and you said something about comparing yourself to others and I just wanted to say this one thought about it.

Brian Funk (01:27:22.47)

I know you have like the intimidating pointer in your hand. I'm about to get scolded for something I said.

Johan (01:27:29.474)

No, no, no. No, but I just, you said that you shouldn't compare yourself to others because, and I liked it because I've said this myself, that others, they are maybe crazy good singers, but

maybe they have issues with other things and they have had this life and blah and so it's not maybe you don't want it is it right translated

Brian Funk (01:28:01.914)

Right, I think it's always funny when people bring up things I said because I start to feel like I've probably contradicted myself and had... But in what you're saying here, I think was something along the lines of like, oh, I wish... If I'm going to compare myself to somebody, I might wish that I had like their voice or something, but I don't want everything else that comes with that. I'm just kind of cherry picking. I want their voice. I want their, you know, whatever.

Johan (01:28:09.384)

No, I don't think so.

Johan (01:28:20.845)

Yeah.

Johan (01:28:24.467)

Exactly.

Brian Funk (01:28:31.33)

And that's sort of how we look at people. We don't, I don't take the whole thing. Then that's how people are, they're a whole package.

Johan (01:28:40.502)

I love that thought because it's a really healthy way of saying, it's a good way of protecting yourself somehow. And I've been like that myself because I'm very good at protecting myself. Been too good. But for me, I think comparing yourself to others is really exciting. But

There is this thing about that we can't recognize our own strengths. A lot of people love my voice and I'm like for sure every time anyone says anything good. And the lead singer for example, Nick Cave and Damon Albarn and Thumb Jork.

They all hate their voices. I know that the David Albarn has started thinking that he's Okay at singing and I think that's really beautiful and What makes them beautiful singers or Adrianne Lenker or others Harding or

everyone else. I don't think it's because they're good singers. I think it's because they're very good at being them, being who they are and sharing it. So when I hear Adrienne Linker, I'm of course also like, I would love to feel as free as her, but I also know it wouldn't make my music better because it's not...

As you said just before, there are musicians who are a hundred times better at anything, but they are not necessarily those who make the best music. And for me, remembering that makes comparing myself to others very easy. Or like, because I can look at Jimi Hendrix and be like, hmmm...

Johan (01:30:56.506)

I wish I could play like Jim Hendrix. What do Jim Hendrix do? He has been practicing doing a lot of new things. So how can I sit down and do some new things?

I love it. One of the funny things of how not to do it is like every time Radiohead sends out a new album, they do something new and then everybody thinks, oh, I want to be like Radiohead doing something new. But instead they copy Radiohead. And it's like, I haven't done it.

Brian Funk (01:31:27.296)

Right, right.

copy the new thing they did not.

Johan (01:31:31.63)

I have done it myself, of course, but it's just so funny that we copy what they do instead of why they do, or I actually don't know if it fits in this situation, because if we actually see what they do, then we can actually learn from it and do it. That Radiohead, they did something new. So if I want to be like Radiohead, I need to do something new.

I love Adrienne Linker because she sings so beautiful. How does she sing beautiful? Hmm for me when I hear her sing she sings about all of her stories and she's very honest it feels like and she has a lot of details because she shares a lot. Is it her voice that makes it

beautiful or is it her sharing? I believe it's her sharing because if she didn't share and if it was just like then I think it would be very shallow and then the other thing is that when I hear her sing it feels

Johan (01:32:45.514)

It feels like she's in everything she does. It's like she's not singing in random. Like she knows when she ends her words, which is extremely important, because if you don't know when you end your words, then you're just doing habits. You're not aware of what you do. You don't give yourself out. You're just auto. And...

If we start to look at all of these things with people we love, then we will start to realize, oh, they're being brave. They are singing their heart out. They're doing new things. And then we can look at ourselves. Hmm, I can do more of that too. And then the comparison actually helped us. Because if I started to sing like Thumb York, my music wouldn't get better.

But if I start doing like Thom Yorke, doing what truly excites me and exploring a lot more, then my music will become more exciting. And so...

Johan (01:33:58.574)

the focus on what they actually do is just so...

Johan (01:34:06.442)

Yeah, important.

Brian Funk (01:34:08.31)

So you're thinking more about the approach, not what they do, but how.

Johan (01:34:12.206)

Yeah, I think I made a reel where I said don't think about what but why. Because you can, you can, let's copy, let's copy some woman. She sings two octaves up and it sounds cool. And you're like, I want to do that too.

But when you do it, it feels horrible and you don't want to do it. It doesn't work. But what she does, she did something where she did something that excited her and something that challenged her. And when you do something that excites you and challenges you, then it has the same thing. And I think there's only one universal thing, which is...

I want to do this, which is I got excited. This made me excited. And there's only one way of doing it. Oh, your voice excites me. I want your voice. And it's like, no.

I want to practice or maybe not even practice or yes what is it I want to practice I want to practice being more present in my singing yeah so how can I do that well you can start learning when you start and end your words well you can start controlling your volume and

Johan (01:35:46.238)

I think suddenly we know what we need to work on, instead of always just having this dream that if only we could do this and this and this, then we could do anything.

Brian Funk (01:35:56.919)

Hmm.

Johan (01:35:57.882)

And yeah, it's crazy. I have tried to sell my products for two years and I have failed as hard as possible because the best thing about selling is that understanding your customers' problems. So I want to help songwriters become better songwriters. So how do I do that? Yeah, do you want to become a better songwriter?

Everybody does, but it's not something we want help for. Okay, so if I talk into their problems. So what are songwriter's problems? Myself, I would say, never finishes songs. If you ask songwriter if it's a problem, no, it's not a problem that they don't finish their songs. Okay, what problems does songwriter's have?

um they have difficulties finding inspiration no it's not a problem that's just how it is to be a songwriter well okay um

um the only one i found was time but i can't help with time because i can help with time by helping you with finding inspiration and uh yeah solving everything else but it's like but that's not my problem and what is the problem why is it hard to be a songwriter

And I think that's the focus that we always want what everyone else do instead of why. Does that make sense? And it's

Brian Funk (01:37:49.326)

Hmm. So that's focused on the product, the outcome, rather than the process.

Johan (01:37:58.71)

yeah and i think it's focused on the sensation we get from the other products

and

Johan (01:38:11.086)

Can you tell what is your biggest problem? If I was to ask you.

Brian Funk (01:38:19.042)

Well, that's an interesting before I even get to that. That's an interesting point. And we're reacting to our favorite songwriters product. But for us, we have to really react more towards the process of doing it and getting to the product. Right. So there's a kind of a different, there's a different thing. Right. Yeah. When I'm writing a song.

Johan (01:38:39.67)

When we write a music ourselves or. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:38:45.746)

I might be inspired by the product I heard from somebody else, but we need to get into the process there. The thing I struggle with most. I have a hard time answering that because I think I can struggle at different times with almost everything.

There are times when I feel like I can come up with songs like crazy. Like they're just shooting out of me, you know? I'm excited in those moments. Of course, there are times when I feel like I can't come up with any ideas. There are times when I can't get started. I can't bring myself to just start. I'll do every other possible imaginable thing, no matter how much I hate it. Cleaning.

Johan (01:39:37.023)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:39:37.718)

tidying, organizing the house. It's spotless. And then it's like, I've avoided it. And yeah, the follow through is also challenging at times too. I can't say that there's a part that hasn't given me a problem along the way. I've managed to find ways through them at various times. Whenever I finish anything, I guess I've figured it out.

What I'm kind of really coming to believe is that you just have to show up and push through and find...

I find that excitement, I guess, is a good way to put it. You've got this word for me now. But chase the enthusiasm. Yeah. No, that's a really, I really believe, I don't know, maybe I'm an English teacher. I like words, but I like that sometimes you can package a whole set of things into a single concept. So if, in a lot of ways,

Johan (01:40:31.78)

I'm happy that you like it.

Brian Funk (01:40:54.686)

I think a lot of my problems boil down to not feeling excited. So I'm not excited to start making music today for whatever reason. So I need to figure that out. Or I'm not excited to finish this so I'm not going to follow through. It's once I get that excitement that then that pulls me through it. I see it a lot with my band when we play and we rehearse.

Sometimes the rehearsals, maybe we're tired, it's been a long week and now it's nighttime and we're like surviving practice, you know? We're surviving playing through the set. Whereas there are other times when it's like, we're excited, I wanna try something, I wanna see if we can do this or that or the other thing. I wanna see how well I can focus on this aspect or that or for writing. It's...

Johan (01:41:31.392)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:41:50.73)

let's see if we can make something out of this. Let's take this to its next level. But when it's not there, that's when things drag. And the nice thing about playing with other people is hopefully at least somebody has the enthusiasm because the enthusiasm, the energy's contagious. And it's, I've said this a lot of times with bands before we go on, enthusiasm is contagious. And I think I heard it from Lou Reed.

Johan (01:42:05.449)

Yeah.

Johan (01:42:09.719)

Yeah.

Johan (01:42:18.995)

Oh.

Brian Funk (01:42:19.466)

I think I heard him say that in an interview. But it's been proven to me over and over where you can go to say a venue to play and maybe there's a problem with this thing or that thing or this monitor's out, something's wrong or maybe the crowd isn't as big as you want it or there's a low energy. But if you bring it and you bring that enthusiasm and it fixes all those problems.

Johan (01:42:38.969)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:42:49.038)

So it spreads to everybody. If the band seems a little down about something or nervous, and if I can muster it up, usually they get it. And then it keeps me up, it keeps you afloat because you're getting it back.

Johan (01:43:03.574)

Hmm.

Johan (01:43:07.83)

The best answer I have ever heard, truly. Have you then figured out why you sometimes don't have the energy in your band? I think I have the solution and I think it's very exciting.

Brian Funk (01:43:22.57)

Well, there's definitely...

Brian Funk (01:43:27.967)

just physical tired, physically tired, you know, exhaustion, you know, we've, we worked all day and now we're getting here. There's that. There's also maybe...

Brian Funk (01:43:43.563)

the routine of it sometimes, you know, can it can be where, okay, here we go again we're gonna play through our songs and

Johan (01:43:46.156)

Oh yeah.

Johan (01:43:52.782)

Yeah, because when you are tired, then you also want to succeed and then you can make the safe decisions and then it gets boring. Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:44:01.31)

safe to sit, yeah, tonight we'll just play through. We'll just try to, like, I think of it as surviving. You know, we'll, we just gotta survive it. And that's not a, it's not a great energy to bring to anything, I guess. I've.

Johan (01:44:06.484)

Yeah.

Johan (01:44:14.474)

Very exciting.

Johan (01:44:19.046)

I have another thing which I also think is very exciting because also when you're tired then you're also more in surviving mode and when you're in surviving mode you are more like finding escape reasons what's it called reasons to why this would never succeed.

Brian Funk (01:44:28.824)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:44:39.53)

Yeah, the flight. Yeah, get away.

Johan (01:44:42.666)

And one of the most, I think for me, one of the most important things is also to have dreams. Because dreams is motivating, at least to begin and to actually do something crazy. Because why do something that's challenging if there is no reason to do it? And when you're tired...

And then you can, it's easy to be like, yeah, because we're just here and it's fun and blah, but it will never get anywhere. And I think if you're tired, if you can tell yourself, hey, this rehearsal actually means something because when we rehearse and play this.

then we can actually go and play these gigs and or have a better chance of actually getting some gigs and i would really like to go out play hey would you like to go out and play too oh yeah and i think that can get the energy back too somehow having a purpose

Brian Funk (01:45:41.566)

Mm.

Brian Funk (01:45:49.918)

I agree with that. I've noticed when we sometimes just sit around and talk before we play. We play a little music. We put on a song, listen to the song, check this out. Or maybe we talk about, I mean, if there's a show booked, that kind of takes care of everything because it's like, we got to get ready for the show. So you're excited. But we are not really playing too many. So we're...

Johan (01:45:58.197)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:46:18.806)

kind of we need something else. So over the last few times we've played, we've talked a little bit about recording and getting new ideas together and that's been exciting. So that's brought an energy. That conversation that we have a lot of times before we start playing is a lot more valuable than it might seem.

Whereas you could very easily look at it and say like, all right, come on guys, let's get to work. We're just fooling around here. But it's really kind of priming us and aligning us in what we're about to do.

Johan (01:46:58.386)

Yeah, yeah, I can also be so many different talks because I have also like, I have tried where we speak about a lot of nice things that has nothing to do with music and then, oh, now we have to do music. But if we talk about music and exciting things about music, then I can also get like this, oh, come on, let's play. And yeah, but I think...

Brian Funk (01:47:17.272)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:47:24.695)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (01:47:27.778)

both as a band and as a solo artist that having something to excite you and having something you want that you can remind yourself of that you want. I think a lot of people really underestimated and like, so what do you want to do with your music? Yeah, I just want to live off of music. I'm like, how? I don't care. I'm just like...

you do know that that's the hardest thing, that you just want to do something that's really hard and you don't care how. It's like, what do you want? Yeah, exactly.

Brian Funk (01:48:03.026)

Yeah, and you probably do care very much because there's probably a lot of careers you could wind up in with music that you would hate.

Johan (01:48:10.306)

Yeah, also that. And most people kind of want to be artists or songwriters in some sense, at least those I meet. And it's like, I always give them like three or four options. And I'm just like, okay, do you want to do this? This? Or this? Okay, I can see you want to do the second. Okay, if you continue, you can make it. I promise you.

And then it's like this, hmm, do you mean it? Yeah, why not? If that guy can do it, you can do it. And seriously.

Johan (01:48:53.15)

Why not? But it's all about believing in it and continuing even when it feels impossible. And you have me to help you through that. So I think you have pretty good chances. And when they wake up and thinking about that and then it's 10 times easier to get started. Where of just wanting to make it in music is like...

I can visualize it and if I can visualize it, it's kind of difficult to like get the feeling of I'm standing on a stage or I'm sitting here writing a song that band is playing or but when you have like this oh I'm gonna be on a stage and maybe two years that feels exciting and really dangerous but so I need to get working now.

Brian Funk (01:49:21.966)

Hmm.

Johan (01:49:44.154)

And I think a lot of people is just so scared of having this dream because it feels maybe arrogant or like wanting too much. And it's just like, it's okay. And it's really nice. And the dream will change, I promise you. But on your way to your dream, you will learn by doing and that will make you realize what it is you really want to do.

Brian Funk (01:49:44.599)

Hmm.

Johan (01:50:12.986)

but if you don't want to do anything then you're not going to do as much and then you're not going to get as far. So it's like it's okay to want to become the new Britney Spears. I promise not to laugh. I think it's brave to actually stand up and say that. And the thing about motivation is that we need it and where do we get it?

A lot of people is like, yeah, I just make music for myself and that's all the motivation I need. And I'm like, I don't truly believe you. And maybe some does, but I don't believe it. Because I think there's always this, I think it's like learning a new language without speaking it with anybody. It's just like.

Of course there's someone doing it because they think it's fun but it's like music is something we share and if we don't have plans of sharing it with anyone then why should we go through all the suffering it kind of is to do?

But if we can remind ourselves of that, we actually are going to give something and get something and get something really beautiful.

Johan (01:51:44.91)

then somehow maybe it's not that hard anymore and at least we get some motivation.

Brian Funk (01:51:49.592)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:51:55.542)

Great point to have a kind of just a target or destination or something you're working towards.

Johan (01:52:04.162)

Yeah, and you can also wake up and be like, what can I do today to just get a tiny bit closer? I really love doing that with my business now. And it's just like, just thinking a bit about it makes me just understand everything I can do and everything I have done 10 times better. And it's just like, simple. And it also reminds me of how much I love

Brian Funk (01:52:10.674)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Johan (01:52:33.438)

how awesome it feels to do. Instead of this like I just need to make music.

Johan (01:52:44.854)

Yeah, I just do it for myself. That's just like... Hopefully you do it because it excites you. But hopefully it excites you as much to share it. Or else I think there's something wrong.

Brian Funk (01:52:53.571)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:53:00.638)

Well, I think there's that kind of like noble artist idea, like, I just do it for me because, you know, the artist and there's probably a lot of that in a lot of us, but to have

Johan (01:53:05.006)

Yeah, of course.

Johan (01:53:14.098)

Yeah, because it takes courage to say, and we have also been taught that it should be like that by people who didn't get anywhere and yeah.

Brian Funk (01:53:20.798)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:53:25.498)

Yeah, to apply it though to some sort of goal, it's hard but I think that's how you get that thing for yourself. I can remember pretty specifically thinking when I wanted to do my first album, my own album solo record, to think that became the goal. I want to have this. And then...

Johan (01:53:29.215)

It's hard.

Brian Funk (01:53:53.802)

Why it was for me, you know, it was so I could do it and hope me Oh, maybe people will like it. I hope but I wanted to do it. I've seen other people do it and That gave me the motivation to say Alright, well if nothing else I'll record at least one instrument today if I can do that every day this thing will get done Somehow some it might take a long time. But if that's my bare minimum

Johan (01:54:14.379)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (01:54:23.102)

it'll eventually get done. And that became really motivating. And a lot of times that would be all I got. And sometimes probably I didn't even get it, but I've maybe figured out that weird guitar I was gonna record didn't work. So I still saw it as progress. I was showing up, I was moving forward. And I think that's where, how it got done. If I would have thought...

Johan (01:54:24.235)

Yeah.

Johan (01:54:41.184)

Mmm.

Brian Funk (01:54:52.526)

in other ways, maybe without that goal or without the kind of belief that I'm putting a brick down every day if nothing else and this thing will become a building one day. It was enough to make me feel accomplished too, which was important that I was getting somewhere and that was a satisfying feeling as well.

Johan (01:55:17.074)

Yeah, it's a part of my five minutes trick. Do at least five minutes every day. But yeah.

Brian Funk (01:55:25.026)

Hmm.

Brian Funk (01:55:29.462)

It's a nice trick because it's the kind of thing that, it's not a huge commitment. Five minutes, like you lose five minutes, like every five minutes, they just slip away, right? Like I lose five minutes, like with the refrigerated door opening, trying to decide what to make for lunch. Like five minutes is nothing. So it's not this insurmountable challenge.

Johan (01:55:41.027)

Five minutes yet.

Johan (01:55:49.349)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk (01:55:59.654)

And yeah, you can often get yourself to do something with that mindset. And most of the time it turns into much more than that, which is the kind of hack here. You fool yourself a little bit because if you are actually excited about this and you do enjoy it, it doesn't take too long before something kind of sparks. And if not, you leave five minutes is up. Didn't kill you.

Johan (01:56:10.311)

Yeah, exactly.

Johan (01:56:26.322)

Yeah, and it's also the thing, the part about being creative is that there needs to be a start and an end. Because if there isn't an end, then it's not a play, it's not a game, then it's work. But as with any other games, you can always extend it. But if there isn't a pre-planned end, then it's just like...

Brian Funk (01:56:35.682)

Mm-hmm.

Johan (01:56:53.65)

Oh well, can I ever end? And then it's terrifying.

Brian Funk (01:57:00.178)

I've come to appreciate the ending a lot lately that I'm going to be done at this time. I'm going to finish by this time. And that just compresses your time and it makes me more productive. But it's also sometimes it's good to leave a little on the table for the next day.

Johan (01:57:02.411)

Yeah.

Johan (01:57:05.792)

Yeah.

Johan (01:57:20.998)

yeah and i don't think i don't think

Johan (01:57:30.57)

I believe in the spend a lot of time and I don't believe that most people do it right. I believe that if you work efficient by actually solving problems in exciting ways, then what I maybe sometimes spend eight hours on doing takes half an hour.

and

Johan (01:57:57.266)

And yeah, and having an end and not endless time also just like limits you to take decisions, as you said, and it's just like to do.

Johan (01:58:09.931)

Yeah, it's.

Johan (01:58:14.926)

It's funny how complicated and easy it is.

Brian Funk (01:58:19.646)

Yeah, it's a world of contrasts, dynamics, and music, and creation, and art. It's all on every level, whether you're dealing with colors, and sounds, and volume, or challenges.

Johan (01:58:37.238)

but you also just said my favorite word in music and life, which is contrasts. And the biggest inspiration. And I've thought so much about it and I've gotten this far to contrast. The biggest contrast is the biggest energy and energy is what we feel in life.

Brian Funk (01:58:38.231)

basis.

Johan (01:59:08.238)

and it's like... So music is about giving as much energy by using as big contrast as possible. I think that's very exciting and boring at the same time, but every time... yeah, contrast.

Brian Funk (01:59:27.694)

contrast.

Johan (01:59:30.79)

It's like I started using contrast because I realized that if I always do the contrast to what I want, then it gets exciting. And I have just worked with it so much. And now I'm starting to like realize that the contrast is just the biggest movement, the biggest energy. And that's why it works.

It's like black and white is the two biggest energies, no energy and full energy. And it's just like music on and off the biggest energy movements and

Yeah, no, what I just want to say was just how powerful contrasts are that when you do the opposite and suddenly you can just go places where you could never imagine going and that's so exciting. What is your favorite music you have made yourself?

Brian Funk (02:00:33.238)

I don't know, usually the last thing I did. I have no idea. That's, it's hard to say. But that's usually what's most exciting at any given moment, you know. Those last few things, because it's fresh, it's an accomplishment, you know.

Johan (02:00:35.21)

The last.

Johan (02:00:46.786)

Yeah.

Johan (02:00:54.578)

I just listened to my first EP which I released four years ago. I was just like wow this is bad. But there is one song I like so that's good.

Brian Funk (02:01:05.258)

Ha.

Brian Funk (02:01:10.132)

Nice.

Johan (02:01:12.39)

No. Uh...

Johan (02:01:25.68)

would you like to... I'm just really curious because

Can I hear a song and tell you what I think?

Johan (02:01:39.934)

You can cut it out if you don't want it to be in...

Brian Funk (02:01:41.078)

Yeah.

Johan (02:01:45.138)

I'm just... it's like... I don't know why I want to do it, but I'm extremely curious about listening. And... I also really want to tell my... what I hear. It's not gonna be anything negative in any way. No, no, because it's like...

Brian Funk (02:02:09.186)

They can be.

Johan (02:02:14.142)

uh negative feedback is just uh people who is uh bad at giving feedback i think feedback is just me telling you what i experience and that can't be a negative thing uh and if it is then i guess it's somehow very impressive how you can um

Isn't your music on... Oh, here it is.

Brian Funk (02:02:43.498)

It better be.

Johan (02:02:45.682)

It's like, your picture is like a purple...

Brian Funk (02:02:52.09)

It could be. I guess it depends where you are. The latest thing, rectangles.

Johan (02:02:53.642)

What is your latest album called? I'm on iTunes.

Johan (02:03:08.482)

What song should I hear?

Brian Funk (02:03:12.742)

Um, I don't know. They're kind of all in a similar vein. Except the last one is totally different. But, uh, part of me, my...

Johan (02:03:24.834)

So you say that I should just randomize.

Brian Funk (02:03:29.814)

Yeah, you know, see what you think. Whatever. Maybe there's a title that jumps out to you.

Johan (02:03:35.774)

Yeah, I'm looking for you.

Brian Funk (02:03:40.094)

I'm looking for you.

Johan (02:03:40.819)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (02:03:44.435)

All of those were jammuaries, by the way.

Johan (02:03:46.648)

Oh.

I haven't released any January songs yet, I feel so terrible.

Brian Funk (02:03:49.951)

Maybe s-

Brian Funk (02:03:54.166)

Well, they were worked on, you know, they weren't, that's not their, that's not what I finished in that day, but most of it was, yeah, those in one day.

Johan (02:03:56.714)

No no no, I- No no.

Johan (02:04:02.974)

Okay, I will press play now and...

Brian Funk (02:04:12.014)

Here we go.

Johan (02:06:38.881)

Yeah.

Johan (02:06:42.462)

What do you think? Yeah, that's terrible. I was thinking if I could share the sound. Yeah, that was also why I said that. Now I'm pressing play. What is your own thought right now?

Brian Funk (02:06:43.326)

It's fun to watch someone listen when you can't hear it yourself.

Brian Funk (02:06:51.222)

Yeah, we'll put it in there.

Brian Funk (02:07:04.534)

It's about the song or about watching you listen to it without hearing it myself. So that one...

Johan (02:07:07.07)

Yeah. Your song.

Brian Funk (02:07:16.762)

something to be excited about, right? I sang in a very low voice, you know, that which was kind of different. So I was having fun with that and that one. Those songs in general were kind of using a certain palette of sounds, drum sounds, guitar sounds, bass sounds that I was excited about. So I was just putting them through each track just made it really easy to write the songs. I like

Johan (02:07:19.437)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (02:07:46.75)

I like the just kind of deadpan vocal delivery in that one. That was fun for me to do it that way, almost just talking.

Johan (02:08:01.964)

Okay.

Brian Funk (02:08:03.002)

Also just, I like where that sits in the album too. I just feel like it's a kind of a good energy at that point in the record.

Johan (02:08:17.93)

Oh, yeah. I'm sorry to put you through this. But I also think you're very brave and cool. My first thought...

Brian Funk (02:08:18.178)

But enough about me.

Johan (02:08:33.078)

for the first thing I admire you that you actually do it and I think it's a good song the things that I thought of first is your prompt was to sing in a low key and use the sounds

Brian Funk (02:08:50.846)

I wouldn't say it was my prompt, but that was what I wound up with.

Johan (02:08:53.982)

Okay, I think that is an exciting thing that when we don't use prompts, we kind of always has prompts. That's why I think it's just easy to just like make them before because then we don't need to search for them. But that's another thing. Okay, when I hear the song I think of a lack of contrasts.

and I think by muting some options when I look here it's because I'm looking at you. I think that muting some things and even muting the drums and would make some contrast and I always think the contrast are just exciting.

That was like my easy thing to, for me, make it more exciting to me. Then the second thing that really hit me is most of the elements are doing... I need to stop this... are doing the very... How do you say it?

Johan (02:10:15.766)

Sorry, I need to...

Johan (02:10:21.962)

I'm really pressing. They are very predictable. And.

Johan (02:10:31.506)

if it was my song I would need to do something unpredictable and I think figuring out how to do that would be a really fun way of working with the sketches that is like the base is

It's like we have heard the bass before doing what the bass does and we heard the guitars do what they do. And there was something about the guitar sounds I really loved. There was something harsh, metal-ish thing. It's like a cymbal or something that I really love the sound of. And... Ah, that makes sense, yes.

Brian Funk (02:11:12.71)

I think it was an acoustic.

Johan (02:11:16.806)

which I really loved and if it was me I would maybe try to enhance that part of the sound to actually because I think there was one choice that maybe only you would make in that decision not decision what's it called

Yeah, in that session. And I think that is what tells your story or shows your character more. And then I think I would high cut all of your instruments more to make more room for your vocal. And I think this is a very exciting question because why didn't you?

And I think this is a singer musician dilemma that, yeah, I'm not a good singer. So I'll just hide a bit maybe. Yeah. And it's just so funny because when we do that, I do it myself too. I have people to help me not do it, which is like turn it up. No, turn it up or make some new ones because you can't turn them down. Like, okay. And.

Brian Funk (02:12:10.722)

Hiding, yeah.

Brian Funk (02:12:27.956)

Yeah.

Johan (02:12:30.174)

And that's another way to be brave. To just be like, okay, that it is as it is. And one thing that I have learned is that when I turn my...

Johan (02:12:45.875)

more shittier vocals up and give them space

then it's easier for them to actually not be shitty. It's like if you hide a shit, then it looks like a shit and it looks like someone is hiding it. But if you put the shit, yeah, then it's like, wow, this is then we start to look at. Yeah. Wow. It's because it has all of these patterns. It's like, no, it's just a shit. But it's like something how we tell the story.

Brian Funk (02:13:02.466)

You display it.

Yeah, look at that shit.

Johan (02:13:20.046)

And now I have one question for you. Are you a scale guy? A scale guy? Scale no A scale like staying in the scale of the music in one key

Brian Funk (02:13:25.722)

Oh.

Skating? Like skateboard? Scale.

Johan (02:13:41.514)

Are you only using notes from one scale? Isn't it called scale? Am I totally wrong?

Brian Funk (02:13:47.726)

Um, I think that's all. I think it's two chords the entire time that I'm just staying right in.

Johan (02:13:54.386)

Yeah, because I was thinking of like the melody. It could just have done this small little unexpected thing. Where it could be... Like, like... Then it would have done something new and had been unexpected and been something. But I think...

Yeah, I think it's the thing about that when everything is something does something that we already know

And then I think we have like something to change. It doesn't make sense and is it terrible to hear or...

Brian Funk (02:14:39.244)

Yeah.

Johan (02:14:47.302)

How does it feel? I feel very scared. OK, good.

Brian Funk (02:14:51.106)

I like it. No, I like it. I enjoy getting, I don't get a lot of feedback. So it's great to hear it. And I could totally hear everything you're saying within that song. I don't disagree at all. You know what's gonna sound weird though, is I have to get off this call now cause I've got my class to teach at 5.30 and I'm.

Johan (02:15:16.05)

No no no, yeah of course.

Brian Funk (02:15:18.322)

I've totally cut it and I don't want you to feel like I'm like, ah, this guy just criticized myself. No, I really enjoy the feedback.

Johan (02:15:20.207)

No no

Johan (02:15:23.594)

No, no, I don't at all. No, I-

I only wanted to do it because it has been such a great talk and you seemed so cool. I was just so curious about it. I just wanted to know more about you. And I...

Brian Funk (02:15:34.806)

Yeah.

Brian Funk (02:15:39.494)

I see it as an honor, honestly, because it's nice to get feedback and not be personalized with it. It's not me, it's just a song and I can see that's how you see it too. So it's a fresh perspective to hear from.

Johan (02:15:56.014)

For me it's about how can I get to experience you more in the song. And yeah, I think it's so exciting basically because when we get to experience it on our own body. Yeah, but of course...

Brian Funk (02:16:09.974)

Yeah. We should.

We should do another at some point. I think that'd be great. And we could even pursue this angle because that'd be a new direction for the podcast. Song critiques and listening sessions would be a lot of fun. Can we send people to your Instagram? I'll put the post in the show notes, which is randsby at randsby.biz. And also your website is.

Johan (02:16:23.213)

Yeah.

Johan (02:16:28.514)

for sure.

Brian Funk (02:16:44.714)

ransby.biz as well. And anywhere else you want to send people?

Johan (02:16:45.322)

Yes, exactly. No, that's perfect. Then I can guide them like... Yeah, I don't know where.

Brian Funk (02:16:56.454)

I really appreciate you taking the time and I am sorry to cut it short on us.

Johan (02:16:59.234)

No, no, no. Thank you for inviting and it has been, yeah, very long. It has been a true pleasure and I would love to do some more and I think, yeah, I only said it because I like your, what's it called, company. Thank you. So,

Brian Funk (02:17:02.326)

cut it long, short, whatever, we want to look at it.

But yeah.

Brian Funk (02:17:23.882)

Yeah. Thanks, I enjoyed yours as well.

Johan (02:17:26.662)

So it would be totally fun to do something in a lot of different ways. And if you want feedback then please just let me know. And yeah. And you have a music club?

Brian Funk (02:17:36.3)

Let's do it.

Brian Funk (02:17:41.822)

Yes, I could get into that as well if you like, but I'm going to say, yeah, say thank you to everyone that listened and thank you.

Johan (02:17:45.118)

Yeah. But write me and thank you so much for listening to our conversation. If you have gotten this far and hopefully see you another time. And yeah, this has been a true pleasure. Music is magical. Humans are magical when we do what.

Brian Funk (02:17:58.871)

Hehehe

Johan (02:18:14.518)

when we are brave, I think.

podcastBrian Funkmusic production podcast, johan ransby