Collaboration and Live Performance with Lynden Williams - Music Production Podcast #337

Lynden Williams makes music as Divorce Court. His new album, Two Hours, marks a new direction with his collaboration with Chase Lambert. Lynden also works as a documentary filmmaker for Ableton. 

It was great to reconnect with Lynden! His music and workflow have evolved tremendously in the years I've known him. Lynden shared insights he learned from artists while filming documentaries with Ableton. He spoke about the power of creativity and the fun and challenge of bringing his music to the stage for live performances.

Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, YouTube

Show Notes:

• Divorce Court Website - https://www.divorcecourtt.com/

• Two Hours album by Divorce Court - https://www.divorcecourtt.com/music/two-hours

• Divorce Court on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/6AHXh0zQ9x4YO9bPn3F79k?si=wZnm1EkOR4CG5DyvPWnADQ

• Divorce Court Bandcamp - https://divorcecourt.bandcamp.com/

• Ableton One Thing with Brian Funk, Produced by Lynden Williams - https://youtu.be/I9mJ6UdhEik

• Will Doggett on the Music Production - https://brianfunk.com/blog/will-doggett

• Super Tape - https://www.supertape.com/

• Lynden's First Appearance on the Music Production  Podcast #78 - https://brianfunk.com/blog/2018/9/16/78-lynden-williams-aka-divorce-court

• Brian Funk Website - https://brianfunk.com

• Music Production Club - https://brianfunk.com/mpc 

• 5-Minute Music Producer - https://brianfunk.com/book

• Intro Music Made with 16-Bit Ableton Live Pack - https://brianfunk.com/blog/16-bit

• Music Production Podcast - https://brianfunk.com/podcast

• Save 25% on Ableton Live Packs at my store with the code: PODCAST - https://brianfunk.com/store

• This episode was edited by Animus Invidious of PerforModule - https://performodule.com/

Thank you for listening. 

Please review the Music Production Podcast on your favorite podcast provider!

Episode Transcript:

Brian Funk:

Hello everybody and welcome to the Music Production Podcast. I'm your host Brian Funk and today I have a return customer. It's Lyndon Williams. Way back in the early days of the show, Lyndon was on, he'd just released some music as Divorce Court, and we're here to talk again because he's got a new album out, and it's awesome. It's great, I've been listening to it a lot. It's a great summer vibe. He's been out playing a lot with it. Lyndon is also a documentary filmmaker for Ableton. He does the artist movies for the Loop Team. He helped me out when I did the One Thing video. That was a blast, and I learned a ton, and it's great. Great to connect with you, Finn buddies, ever since. So Lennon, good to see you. Welcome back.

Lynden Williams:

Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, it's been a while, right? That was maybe four years ago.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, it was maybe the first or second year of the show.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, three years ago, yeah, 2020.

Brian Funk:

Well, 2020 is when we did the one thing.

Lynden Williams:

Ah, I see.

Brian Funk:

And probably two, three years before that was the podcast.

Lynden Williams:

Wow, our friendship reaches back now. We're getting old.

Brian Funk:

Two decades, two

Lynden Williams:

Two

Brian Funk:

different

Lynden Williams:

decades.

Brian Funk:

decades.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, thank you for the kind words on the album. Thanks for listening. You were one of the first people to really comment on it on Instagram and show love. I'm really glad we're able to do this again because I haven't talked about the creation of it much with anyone off of social media where we know it just gets

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

posted and thrown away. So it's nice to

Brian Funk:

I

Lynden Williams:

do

Brian Funk:

know.

Lynden Williams:

something a little longer.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I thought you did a nice job building up to it. You

Lynden Williams:

Thank

Brian Funk:

know, where

Lynden Williams:

you.

Brian Funk:

you kind of led into it, you had some singles come out, teased it a bit. It seemed like a nice, well thought out plan for the release.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

I've never

Lynden Williams:

it was,

Brian Funk:

done that.

Lynden Williams:

oh yeah. I had only done like an EP and some singles and some tapes, like beat tapes and like cassette manipulated slow versions of stuff as albums, you know, but I feel like this album for me was like a crash course in... proper music releasing, I guess you'd say. By proper,

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

I mean like, an album I did not realize is so different than just putting out singles. In so many ways, you know. But I was always trying to figure out how many singles, when to put them out, when is it too early, you know. Because we did stretch it out quite a bit. Like March was the first single, and July was the full album. But we needed the time because we really were pushing to finish things up until June

Brian Funk:

Oh yeah?

Lynden Williams:

when it came out in July. You know what

Brian Funk:

Nice.

Lynden Williams:

I mean? And trying to get the new live show prepped throughout May and June with a full band, which I'd never done before.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

So it was a lot.

Brian Funk:

So you're using the deadline, I guess, to get stuff

Lynden Williams:

The

Brian Funk:

done.

Lynden Williams:

deadline, yeah, things that

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I learned from the podcast. The deadline, honestly, I don't think I would've ever finished this record without it, or without having a cool, reliable co-producer this time around, and who's now pretty much my co-writer on most things Divorce Court is Chase Lambert. He makes music as Cedar Face and Real Content. But once he came on board, I had these ideas fleshed out a year before the release, really. And I wasn't in a great place mentally, honestly. And I was just kind of feeling down on it all, and not sure where the finish line was. Originally, we had this goal of August 2022. We were like, okay, the record's gonna be done August 2022. And then it was September, and then it was December, and then. We were just, and I'm really glad we did that because so many songs were completely changed by the time we finished them from where they were in August or summer of last year, you know, I think they definitely ended for the better, like ended in better places.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, wow. That's a big shift. It's almost a year. And I can't say I'm surprised you hit one of those dark nights of

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

feeling down. When would you say that sort of set in? I mean, it seems like every project, there's always that point, right?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Where you're like, I don't know, for whatever reason. And sometimes it's multiple reasons. It's just...

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

You get, almost feel like it can't be done. It's an impossible summit to climb.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah. It was a combo meal, I guess, of sorts, because we had the music side, but then the record kind of saw us this two-year journey in some pretty intense therapy. And every week or every two weeks I'd go, and it was always, they were always hand-in-hand, where I was at emotionally, kind of diving in and just working on my child's self. It's kind of a buzzword right now, trauma. and child self-work, but I mean, it's important, you know, like to go back there and kind of just poke around, you know, get down in the darker places of your memory. Because beforehand, I always knew that like this project, for me, like really, was always based around these hazy childlike memories and nostalgia and like trying to uncover these feelings from my youth, but. There wasn't like specific topics as much in the early music, you know. Sometimes there was, like Sea of White, my single from 2019 is about death. Indonesia is about some time I spent as a teenager living alone in Indonesia. and wrestling with like what I thought God was or who I thought God was. Like there is topics in there, but I didn't really get really, oh I have a Tide pen in my hand. I have a stain, I just got it. I always like the old stuff, but

Brian Funk:

He's

Lynden Williams:

there

Brian Funk:

ready.

Lynden Williams:

wasn't, you can cut the Tide pen. No sponsored ad from Tide. There wasn't any really like macro level themes, I guess you'd say, until this record. And I think it feels true, you know, and it feels, lyrically it feels stronger to me, like personally, because it's more true and open and vulnerable. And that was never like a big worry of mine, like being too vulnerable, but it was more being, letting my voice come forward in the mix. That was the hardest part, I think. Cause this record,

Brian Funk:

like singing voice?

Lynden Williams:

yeah,

Brian Funk:

Just,

Lynden Williams:

yeah.

Brian Funk:

yeah, okay.

Lynden Williams:

Just like really letting

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

some of these songs like, you know, less reverb, better vocal mix. overall like more volume on the vocal, less

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

hiding.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

I guess that's the whole thing. We're all kind of hiding behind something. So.

Brian Funk:

Right? I went through the same thing with my band's record,

Lynden Williams:

Really.

Brian Funk:

where I'd spent a lot of time doing the vocals, producing them in between practice. And they'd come back, and I'd play it for them. And I got cool effects and hidden vocals.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

And they pushed me to, why don't you take some of that stuff off?

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

And it's kind of like, Oh, I've put all this time into it, but then it's also naked out there.

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

It's something you got to get used to and almost do a leap of faith on. But I was kind of convinced because they were saying it allowed you to really hear the, like intricacies and the subtleties of the voice and what's happening and the emotions come through that way.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, there's a few artists that do it really well. when you hear other artists that you love being so vulnerable and open and accepting their own sound and not trying to hide, it's pretty inspiring I think to do it. And I'm not going to say the whole record's like that. There's songs where I got layers and Little Alterboy underneath and tons of reverb on this end and Eventide from my mix engineer Ryan on a bunch of stuff, which I want to talk about Ryan because he did an incredible job. But it is, for me, it was more, like, way more dry and forward than before. And I think it just has more punch. Like, we went with a lot more, like, saturation and grit on this album than we've been before, and that was big influence by Chase, my co-producer and close friend, because... his influences or... and he's a guitarist, I think that helps. You know, when you come from the guitar world, I think you just fall in love with

Brian Funk:

You're

Lynden Williams:

saturation

Brian Funk:

not afraid to

Lynden Williams:

and

Brian Funk:

distort

Lynden Williams:

distortion.

Brian Funk:

things.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

yeah. And I, having never really played the guitar well, I'm more like into pianos and keys and synths, but although I'd love to be better at the guitar, but having never really messed around with guitar pedals as much and just sit there and tweak distortions, it wasn't really a... I didn't understand how it would fit into my project, if that makes sense.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

Because I'm always like, originally I was always reaching for these beautiful pads, you know, and these like, these um, less intense like sounds, but... It's honestly, it was like less exciting, I guess you'd say. Sometimes when these like, like there's this part on the song, spill on the record after Mal from Nowhere, the lyricist and rapper who comes on that track after he, his verse ends, like, just like comes in with. so much distortion and the drums sound good and like the distortion behind the vocal but it's also on some keys and guitar and I just think that's when I was like wow it all makes sense within my project now. It doesn't just make sense for other people like Kevin Parker and you know like artists who are like quote unquote good at making that distorted sound so it was cool. There's so much so much to learn like I said like every song has a different takeaway. It's 12 songs. in you know like 18 to 24 months ish, you know, which is slow ish, but I'm not super fast. I mean we hope to have some, probably a single out by the end of the year that just didn't fit on the record, but I'm definitely not like a release a single every six to eight weeks type songwriter. Probably

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

because I'm just busy. I mean I have my full time job and I have two kids, partner, family,

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

you know, so.

Brian Funk:

Well, that was normal up until, you know, I don't know, 10

Lynden Williams:

Right?

Brian Funk:

years ago, right?

Lynden Williams:

Exactly. Like I would be so excited when, it makes it less exciting when artists are releasing too much. You know, like,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I remember like the gaps of some of my favorite artists growing up. Like Phoenix to me is just like ultimate high level, incredible band, like group, right? And when Wolfgang Amadeus Phoenix came out, I think there was like a four year gap between 2009 and 2013. And when that next one came out, it was like worth the wait, you know. But if they're releasing singles every eight weeks, it would just be like, okay, hey, that's cool, you know.

Brian Funk:

It gives an artist a chance to develop a little too.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Instead

Lynden Williams:

Oh,

Brian Funk:

of

Lynden Williams:

you

Brian Funk:

just

Lynden Williams:

change

Brian Funk:

churning

Lynden Williams:

a lot,

Brian Funk:

out.

Lynden Williams:

right? Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I like to see, there's a new record that just came out from an artist that I love. And we're connected through some mutual friends, but Trevor Powers, Youth Lagoon record, he put out a new record this year on Fat Possum and he was on like a unspoken hiatus, I think, like there wasn't any records coming out for a while, you know. don't quote me on it, but I think it was like seven years. But seeing how his sound evolved over the time period, he put out a few other records under a different project under his own name, you know? But it's cool when you see someone venture out and then bring those learnings back. It's like they went on a trip and then bring the learnings back to the project that you fell in love with, you know? It's such an incredible record. It's warm and off. It doesn't feel quantized at all, which is really cool, especially for my ears, because I come from an electronic music background, so I love hearing records that use drum machines and real piano and really interesting vocal effects and guitars and it's a mix, but that doesn't really feel that quantized. I really love that. Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. Yeah, that I only know the one youth lagoon record. It's

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, it's like the year of hibernation with

Brian Funk:

pretty

Lynden Williams:

the purple-ish

Brian Funk:

big.

Lynden Williams:

cover. Yeah, the

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

first one was like the big one. This

Brian Funk:

Yes, great.

Lynden Williams:

one's amazing, honestly.

Brian Funk:

Hmm, that's fun.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, they're on

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

tour

Brian Funk:

I look

Lynden Williams:

right

Brian Funk:

forward

Lynden Williams:

now.

Brian Funk:

to hearing that.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, you should check it out. It's called Heaven is a Junkyard. That's what we've been listening to on repeat, honestly, in our house. Like the last, since June, since it came out. And my

Brian Funk:

That's great.

Lynden Williams:

wife will play my own record all the time, and I'm like, that's great, but it's weird

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

hearing the record playing all the time in the house, or my

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

kids will ask to listen to it in the car. And at this point, I'm like, I wanna make some new music, cause

Brian Funk:

Uh-huh.

Lynden Williams:

it's been, you know how it is to finish. You could go months without opening up a new session. It's

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

cause you're just in finishing mode.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, you're tweaking, you're working, and then you're doing the other work. That's not even really music.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah,

Brian Funk:

Get it ready

Lynden Williams:

exactly.

Brian Funk:

and

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah,

Brian Funk:

release it.

Lynden Williams:

the release and social media. I got a bit, I guess going back to your comment on the release strategy and stuff, it's like I'm happy that it was received well, but I did, or I am experiencing pretty bad social media burnout.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

Like I don't feel like I want to do it right now.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I'm not like huge on it, but I wanted to be strategic and consistent with the record release. But it's weird, right? Because you finished the strategy that you've created and then it's out and then it's like, you know, like, did you hear the record? Still out. You know what I mean?

Brian Funk:

Yes.

Lynden Williams:

And I just, I really don't, don't enjoy using social media. Like I even tried the TikTok thing for a bit. It just felt ingenuine. And there's people who do really well on it and they love just like creating video content. But I just want to like make the music, you know.

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

But I don't know if that's really an option these days to just make the music and play the music, you know.

Brian Funk:

I don't know if it is either. Um, I mean, at least if you want it to be your entire career, right.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Um, then you have to, I spoke with Ebony Smith on the podcast and she put it. She said like an artist is an artist about like everything. So the social media stuff, even the promotion stuff. And she said like all the most successful artists, like really put in all of that energy into every aspect of it.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

And.

Lynden Williams:

it's true.

Brian Funk:

It's hard because you want to do the thing you want to do, you didn't really know you were getting wrapped up in all these other things as

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

well.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, that stuff is like, it's work. You know?

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Like, I felt like this year, I mean, I feel like I have like two jobs now. You know? But one pays my bills and one doesn't. Ha ha ha. But,

Brian Funk:

Yeah, that's

Lynden Williams:

yeah.

Brian Funk:

how it has to be, I guess. I mean, I can get into video editing and website designing and all these things like I never would have decided to do

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

because you do music and then you realize, oh, I got to design a logo. I got to make a flyer. I got to,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

you know,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

a million things come up along the way.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, that brings me to this thought of like, I think the one thing that I'm extremely grateful for on this whole cycle of finishing and releasing was putting together a really, really great team of people to work on it with me. So I didn't have to try to do it all because I know where my skills don't lie.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

You know what I mean? I

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

know what I like. but I'm not a good designer and I know how I want it to sound but I'm not the best mix engineer I mix like of older stuff on my own but to be honest I like the other mixes more it's just like a lesson on collaborating right you get someone else's taste on there and suddenly it's like it opens it up and it gives it a new life

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

but yeah I think I'm just learning like the mix I every time and one of the coolest parts of this process has been getting all the stems from the mix back and then learning from studying the stems.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

You know and

Brian Funk:

What they did to your work.

Lynden Williams:

yeah, yeah so

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

the whole record was mixed by Ryan Hayner who some of you might know is in the band Small Black.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

And so,

Brian Funk:

It's cool band.

Lynden Williams:

yeah, they're from New York.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

And I played a show with them in August of 2022 when the record was supposed to be done. And they're just so great musically and live and as people. And me and Ryan like really connected. I had some mutual friends with some other folks on their tour. Keith Sweaty, who's an amazing artist and producer. His partner is Lauren Adun, who I knew through my work. And so it was just like a weird green room connection, like Spiderweb, you know? But I just was like, man, Ryan is so great. We just talked a bunch and I just kinda like, I guess, what's the phrase? I kinda just shot my shot, you know? And a month or so later I just DM'd him and I was like, hey, like. would you ever want to hop on and help me mix this record? Fully expecting him to be kind about it, but be like, I don't know, I'm busy. Because they put out a new record that year, and they're always doing stuff. And he's also got a family and touring. But the whole record feels very cosmic. Everything that I put out into the... like universe just as like a question, I feel like was answered. And not

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

all of it was like given or like answered in the way that I hoped, but I feel like I was getting answers, which felt nice, you know? That's like a very, you know, what's the word?

Brian Funk:

Mystical.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, mystical way of speaking about it, but it did feel really special when he agreed to do it. And then we just started working on it. And it was nice because we were kind of at the same pace. I would say we didn't do it all at once. I would just send him like a Dropbox link and be like, this single or this track is done. This is the first single. Here's the date. These three tracks are done. And yeah, the mixes every time. I think the furthest we went along in a revision on the mix was three versions. And the third one was like, hey, can we turn the snare down by 1 dB? Every time I got a mix back, it was just like, yes. And it makes sense, because they're one of the influences of divorce court. That era of early chill wave, you put them next to Washed Out and Teen Days, and all these artists that kind of like, um. started brewing in my brain, my creative mind emotionally, and curiosity started to spark around those years of like 2010 to 2013. It's like a micro genre. And I don't think I can call the new record strictly Chillwave, but I think you can feel the influences. I think I've just been calling it like, I think we called it Chillgaze. Like Chillwave

Brian Funk:

Uh

Lynden Williams:

meets Shoe Gaze, because

Brian Funk:

huh. Okay, yeah,

Lynden Williams:

there's

Brian Funk:

I

Lynden Williams:

so

Brian Funk:

could hear

Lynden Williams:

much

Brian Funk:

that.

Lynden Williams:

interesting and cool guitars from Chase

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

and like, you know. Or just indie, I don't know, what do you call, what are genres these days?

Brian Funk:

I know, it gets hard. They get so divided and so specific that you don't even know what to call it. One album is a genre.

Lynden Williams:

I know, yeah.

Brian Funk:

But yeah, it's music. I was thinking about that actually today. I was listening to it, your record. I was thinking about the genre, the feel, and I'm like, yeah, but it's like... There's even like a little bit of hip hop going on in there.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

There's like, you know, like maybe like the chill hip hop kind of stuff, but it's in there. Um, and so it's not just straight up anything in those worlds, but it's like a, it's a feeling. I almost feel like what you have is more. And I love that in an album when there's just like a feeling. So you can put that thing on and just kind of go there, go to that world, go to that place. And yours does that really well without any kind of crazy interruption, where something

Lynden Williams:

Cool.

Brian Funk:

really steps out of that world. So it's kind of just, it's great to just play, just to put on

Lynden Williams:

Great,

Brian Funk:

as

Lynden Williams:

I'm

Brian Funk:

a

Lynden Williams:

happy.

Brian Funk:

whole.

Lynden Williams:

I do see, I do imagine like music as just language. You know, like there's music that I like to listen to and music that I don't prefer, but I have a hard time saying any sort of music is bad because it's like a language.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

You either understand that sound and feeling or you just don't, you know. And you can learn to love certain types of music. Like, I don't think, I didn't grow up listening to jazz at all. But I love jazz now, and I feel like I learned what the feeling is, and like, I'm not gonna sit here and say, I know a ton about the history of jazz, but I've never turned jazz off. I grew up listening to a lot of country, I'll probably turn country off, because I don't really speak that language anymore. You know? But, it's really interesting, yeah, we talked about what is a genre, and if music's just a feeling. everyone's kind of operating on like different waves of feeling at all times, you know?

Brian Funk:

Yeah, and it changes even in like a day.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

In the morning, I feel different than I do in the afternoon and I want something else

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

that I might want, say at night if I'm going to sleep. And I find that's actually a really helpful way when I'm going to make music myself is to sort of think of those purposes or those directions I'm trying to go. What is a listener gonna be doing when this is on? What's the point?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

You

Lynden Williams:

and

Brian Funk:

know?

Lynden Williams:

I think that's why I have a hard time with gear. I think sometimes I'll buy a piece of gear based on the feeling of the time. And then if something sits without me using it for more than three months, I'm gonna sell it. But I usually regret it.

Brian Funk:

Okay.

Lynden Williams:

But I see everything as monetary value. I'm like, oh, geez.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

That's sitting there, it's like, that's $600. I'm looking at one right now that's for sale. But I won't say what it is. But

Brian Funk:

Thank you.

Lynden Williams:

one thing I don't think I'll sell is my 404 sampler. And I really love this Yamaha Reface CP, the little roads,

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

like whorlitzer. I like it because it sounds good, but also it's perfect for live performance.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. Right. I was just watching a video from Tetro. I think that's how he says it.

Lynden Williams:

Oh

Brian Funk:

Tetro,

Lynden Williams:

yeah, I

Brian Funk:

you

Lynden Williams:

like

Brian Funk:

know?

Lynden Williams:

his videos.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, he's great. And he was showing his new kind of like jamming rig with a Push 3 and a CP. And

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

he might have even had a 404 in there too, actually.

Lynden Williams:

That looks great. I gotta check this out.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, it's like brand new the video. But... Yeah, the thing sounds great.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

And it's nice,

Lynden Williams:

it does.

Brian Funk:

it fits right in compact.

Lynden Williams:

And I

Brian Funk:

Those

Lynden Williams:

love that

Brian Funk:

kind

Lynden Williams:

it,

Brian Funk:

of just flew by real fast

Lynden Williams:

yeah.

Brian Funk:

and you didn't hear about them.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, they were out of stock for like a year or more. But I love that it has this hard, like knobbed delay and reverb, you know? So like for live performance, it's cool because like I'll, I just love the tactile on this of the knobs and stuff.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, they're

Lynden Williams:

Sponsored

Brian Funk:

nice

Lynden Williams:

by

Brian Funk:

big

Lynden Williams:

Yamaha.

Brian Funk:

knobs, yeah.

Lynden Williams:

But I'll mess with the time and depth live, so it'll sound really crazy. And it's like giving

Brian Funk:

Is it like

Lynden Williams:

live

Brian Funk:

a repitch

Lynden Williams:

feedback.

Brian Funk:

effect when

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

you...

Lynden Williams:

it'll be like,

Brian Funk:

Oh,

Lynden Williams:

vroom,

Brian Funk:

cool.

Lynden Williams:

you know, when you hit that knob on Echo in live. But

Brian Funk:

Yeah. I love that.

Lynden Williams:

yeah, they're nice. I just dig it. Big fan. But I don't have a lot of gear. Over the years, I've bought and sold gear. One thing that I keep getting and... selling and I want to get again as an OP one.

Brian Funk:

I thought you might say that.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, I think we've talked about this. I, and

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I, well, I had the older one. And then

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I had sold the older one. It's not a cheap piece of gear. And I think that's why

Brian Funk:

No,

Lynden Williams:

it's hard for me.

Brian Funk:

especially

Lynden Williams:

As a parent,

Brian Funk:

now, yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I'm always just like, you know,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

kids

Brian Funk:

It's

Lynden Williams:

activities, money,

Brian Funk:

like

Lynden Williams:

like,

Brian Funk:

a year of college. Ha

Lynden Williams:

okay. Yeah,

Brian Funk:

ha ha.

Lynden Williams:

exactly. But then right when I sold the original one, the field came out. And I was just instantly like, okay, time to

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

start saving up for that.

Brian Funk:

That looks pretty cool and it seems like it addresses some of the annoying things about the first one.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

But

Lynden Williams:

yeah, and I actually

Brian Funk:

which

Lynden Williams:

never...

Brian Funk:

might become the thing that makes it like a vintage

Lynden Williams:

Right, exactly.

Brian Funk:

sought after.

Lynden Williams:

I've

Brian Funk:

The

Lynden Williams:

never

Brian Funk:

USB

Lynden Williams:

really...

Brian Funk:

hum.

Lynden Williams:

I had to buy like a ground attachment to get rid of the hum. But I never... use like the tape function. I just used it as like a fun synth. And I did a lot of just recording straight in. And that's actually why I liked it, because I was committing sounds. You know what

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I mean? But I never really got along. I think it's because I'm so embedded into live and like DOS, but I never really got along with like the function. My friends down in Mexico City have a, like a collective called the OP1 Club. OP1.club, have you seen that?

Brian Funk:

No, I haven't. No.

Lynden Williams:

uh... is that what it is? they play these shows and there's like four to six of them around a table it's two of like some of the dopest producers and musicians i know but it's the it's arestas gomez who is uh... like a drummer and producer he does a ton of stuff with the opi one his uh... yeah this is him it's amazing his uh...

Brian Funk:

Restis

Lynden Williams:

and then

Brian Funk:

gomis.

Lynden Williams:

um... uh... ralph sota mayor who makes music as tongue conga and sota mayor we actually worked on some stuff together from work uh... he's amazing yet these two follow tongue conga they have this thing that they work on called OP1 club and they'll like play these shows. Like this is like them around the table. Like with everything from teenage, you know?

Brian Funk:

Cool.

Lynden Williams:

Like they each have like

Brian Funk:

I

Lynden Williams:

two

Brian Funk:

like

Lynden Williams:

OP1s.

Brian Funk:

the modular and everything.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, the modular, but they have these wild shows like where people like really show up, you know? Like they're selling out these like cool shows and they'll perform

Brian Funk:

Wow.

Lynden Williams:

like in the middle of the group. Mexico City is like, yeah, one of my favorite places on the planet. I think the energy and the creativity, every five minutes you'll meet someone and they'll be like, I'm doing this, and then you check their stuff out and they're really doing it. Everyone's making art down there. It helps to know a few of the... Folks who are like helping lead the change but like so many creative folks on there. I tell everyone I'm like Like don't move to Mexico City because we don't want to add to the issue of gentrification But go visit and just feel the like hum of the energy and the creativity because it's special for sure

Brian Funk:

Nice, I haven't heard much about that. That's cool. That sounds like a fun club though.

Lynden Williams:

I would love to go to a show. I think we were,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

when I was there last time, I was speaking of Phoenix, I saw them play at this like huge like warehouse venue. And it was amazing. And I was in this mode of like researching live playback and the way that their playback was so dialed. It was. just incredible the way it was synced with like the visuals and like all the cues and the way that everybody I feel like everyone had like a moment you know to like shine in the band the way they designed the playback set. I've been thinking

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

about this a lot because I'm playing the record and playing with a band and like I think at one point in my life playback set had like 700 tracks in it because I just put all the stems in it right

Brian Funk:

Whoa.

Lynden Williams:

and I've been cutting it down but I just

Brian Funk:

700.

Lynden Williams:

started I just yeah like I. I was just like, as I was building it the last eight weeks or whatever, like I just put all the stems from the record in the playback session in groups and their own projects using Will Doggett's formula from studio to stage,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

trying to do it the right way. But, And then I just started deleting, right? Because a lot of those were sends and returns from the mixes, right? But that's how I started. Surprisingly, didn't have any real issues with CPU. Because

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

it was just audio.

Brian Funk:

wow.

Lynden Williams:

I didn't have any plug-ins running or any effects on anything.

Brian Funk:

Uh-huh. OK, so it's the process stems. They're

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

all kind of printed.

Lynden Williams:

But now I've cut it down a ton.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Because we don't need a one sec. Will you shut my door, Al? Oh, thanks, man. So, every time we have a rehearsal though, we just delete.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

All the bass is basically muted now because we have a bassist and almost all the guitar, unless it's a weird reverse layer or a duplicated layer that Chase plays over with, that's unmuted. And then I like to leave some of the ambient... effects from the vocal that are like stereo that aren't really the dry vocal or the main vocal at all but it's more just like space or if I have like a layered vocal that's like 12 dB down below like little altar boy like I said, I'll leave that underneath but

Brian Funk:

little support basically.

Lynden Williams:

yeah, because I'm running the vocals all separately through the UAD console straight

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

to the house

Brian Funk:

Okay.

Lynden Williams:

And that's been amazing, because I used to run them through the computer and that was scary sometimes.

Brian Funk:

Hey, do you mind talking about how the band plays, what the live rig is like?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, so currently we have a bassist, a guitarist, and a keys player. And I think we're kind of feeling out where it's gonna go in the future. Some days where me and Chase are like, let's play all on a table and have it be more hybrid, samplers and synths and like... more like triggering, like kind of more like fluid. Some of these songs aren't really designed that way, so it's kind of a mix of both. We don't have a drummer, and I've been going back and forth a lot. And I think if we were doing a real run of shows, you know, like a

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

two week or more tour of shows, I'd probably feel inclined, but sometimes like... Backtrack drum machines to me just fit the sound so well. So if I had a drummer it'd be cool to have some light percussion. And the drummer who played on the album is touring a lot. And he's really busy and he's super talented. Oh

Brian Funk:

The drums are great on the record.

Lynden Williams:

thanks.

Brian Funk:

I wanted to ask you about the drums actually in particular, because it sounds like live player and

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

it's got groove and swing and it feels very natural. Does not sound programmed or anything or stiff.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, so that is a close friend of mine, Ukiah Bogle up in Boise actually. He tracked them all in his studio. And which is, he would send ideas or I'd send like a really simple drum machine track and be like, what do you think? And that was another thing that was just like, there wasn't revisions. It was just like, thanks. In

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

like a day, you know, like. We were both on this same production phase. And it was in between touring. Yucay is super talented. He's been in a ton of big projects. Right now he's drumming for Petey. Instagram is PeteyUSA. He's a really, really

Brian Funk:

No. Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

talented musician. He's also a comedian on Instagram. Um, so it's a really interesting combo, but their shows look like super energetic and fun. It's like, it's true like indie rock, like I don't want to be crucified for like defining the PD genre, but like it's, it's like that sound, but with like a callback to like some of those, like early, like, uh, like, I don't know, like drive through records, like. you know, early emo indie stuff. It's really hard to pin down. I'm really bad at genres, so go easy on me. But anyways, he's doing that and also his own music, the Ukiah's tracks are like so good. He's putting out music, which I think him and Orestes are unique because they're drummers, but they're putting out fully produced tracks. and they're working in the DAW and they're using synths and like they're making their artists as well which I think is so cool. Because if you have that understanding of percussion

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

and timing it's just like yeah, every time he sends me a new track I'm like, those drums. So

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I mean, that's

Lynden Williams:

he

Brian Funk:

everything with

Lynden Williams:

yeah

Brian Funk:

almost any style. Like if you get the rhythm right, you get the

Lynden Williams:

Exactly.

Brian Funk:

groove right,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

then if you don't get that right, nothing is right.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, so he plays on five of the songs on the record. And on one of the songs he played it and then we actually like layered just his overheads and then had the kick and the snare come from a 707 drum machine. So it was really interesting because the overheads just added like a nice blanket over this tight drum machine. It's the opening track on the record, No Trust. And it really made it like bigger and more punchy. But for live right now I've replaced some of the drums with like more... like danceable loops or I've increased the BPM like 10 to 15 for the live versions of these songs. Like we played the song Woodcrest for my record at the album release show and it didn't feel like it was fully there without a drummer because that one is so much like a live drum feel, you know. So for this upcoming show. I replace it with some faster disco drums and increase the BPM, you know? And that's what's fun about playing live. It's like, sometimes in these backtracks, I'll be like, man, I wish I could go back, like add this part in. Or our bassist played this really cool bass line over this older song, and I'm like, oh man, I really wish that was on the recording.

Brian Funk:

Right?

Lynden Williams:

You know? So. ["Sweet Home Alone"]

Brian Funk:

Yeah, that's, I guess, cause you're really rethinking them for live.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's different, I guess, depending on how it originates. When you're a band, you work on it and then you record it in general. And even still things change from time to time. You're like, oh, we do this cool new cut here that's not

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

on the record, but it's a little more. decided upon before you record, but sometimes

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

when you're doing it more like the way you're doing it, and now you're figuring them out live,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah,

Brian Funk:

different things

Lynden Williams:

it was

Brian Funk:

work.

Lynden Williams:

like pretty overwhelming actually, like early on. It went from

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

like the

Brian Funk:

but.

Lynden Williams:

records done to being like, oh no, like how do I translate all of this live without, like we've pulled back a lot of the stems, right? The like, the 700 track backtrack project is funny because that's where it starts when you import all the sessions, but now it's like muted bass, super simple drum groups. Some of the synth work is hard because like, you know, no one can play four pads, three leads, and

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

five keyboard parts. I mean, my stuff is, I don't think it feels chaotic, but there are so many synths. And they're all layers, you know?

Brian Funk:

Yeah, it's a dense layered sound.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it's really hard for the mix engineer, I'm sorry. That's one, and also I think sometimes like this is important to like acknowledge like it is maybe making up for a chord progression or original sound that's not strong enough.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

And that's what I want to work on going forward. Like if I start with a pad that's just not super interesting or strong. The reason I'm layering it with four other things is because the original one just wasn't. So that's what I really wanna work on going forward is simpler projects and make sure that every sound is, can stand on its own. Because we had this rehearsal where my bassist Kevin and Chase the guitarist and co-producer were like. I was going to the stems and I got to this piano part and I was soloing everything to see what we should mute and Kevin's like, what's that? That sounds really great on its own. And you can't even hear it on the recording because it's just buried.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

And so I think if you pick, we're like picking the parts that are like the all stars and pushing them up and then just kind of stripping everything else. And you know how it is when you get to like a room. Everything has a natural...

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

reverb and delay and like ambience. So we do have to strip it back quite a bit. And then it leaves room for the instruments and the live vocal. That's been fun. Like it was overwhelming, but now it's more enjoyable. And every time we rehearse, we're taking things out to where there is a world where I think it'd be cool to like play these songs without any backtracks if I had the right group and like enough instruments on stage.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

Because if you do strip it back like any song, it all comes back to one or two main progressions with the vocal. That's the idea, the bass line, the chord progression, and the vocal.

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

I mean, that's just me explaining what a song is. But I mean, it's cool when I strip those back to four to five layers and go, oh, there's the song.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, still works, still sounds like it.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, what you're talking about with the production with, you know, you call that a weaker sound, it doesn't, that's why you're adding stuff, but I also think a lot of, you know, what you're going for this kind of dreamy, you're looking back on childhood a little bit. So there's that nostalgia feeling, that kind of floaty type

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

thing. It works because It's not that the parts are meant to be on their own necessarily, they are working together with other parts. And I could see how when you then change perspective to like, okay, we have three or four people that need to perform this, how are we going to do the seven-layer synth part?

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

Then it becomes, okay, maybe we need to rethink it. But in the context of the recording, you can get away with all that stuff where you have just this little layer and it's a little thing that changes it like 10%, but it's a meaningful 10%.

Lynden Williams:

That's like the question, right? For you, how do you know when to stop adding layers? You could just never stop.

Brian Funk:

You can never stop.

Lynden Williams:

There's so many

Brian Funk:

You can

Lynden Williams:

plugins

Brian Funk:

have.

Lynden Williams:

and so many options in that scale. How do we know when to stop?

Brian Funk:

Deadline is a good one.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, but I mean, not even when to stop. Not when a song is done, but like. If you have a group in your song called Pads or Synths, how do you know when to stop adding tracks?

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

This is more, I know for me now, but this is maybe a cool question for producers who are still defining their sound. I'm not saying I'm not defining my sound, but I know for me how I know when to stop, but what would you say to someone who's younger or just starting out, when is it enough?

Brian Funk:

I, from my experience, I think it's less than you think. Because a lot of times when I actually get down to business, once I've got my ideas, you know, like the session view aspect of working, where I'm collecting, adding, building, fleshing out, and then I go to actually arranging it, it's so much subtraction and so often. I guess along the way you're putting things together. I know what I do is I'm always trying to keep the song from the very beginning. I'm trying to make it sound like a full production from the start. So if it's just a drum beat, they're like cranked all the way up. They're,

Lynden Williams:

Mmm.

Brian Funk:

you know, hitting the limiter and they're saturated and full where I exported it right there. It would be like, okay, this is like a full sound, but then I have to add the next part. I have to add the bass. I have to add the chords. So I get like, I need it to sound complete the whole time I'm making it.

Lynden Williams:

That's actually such good advice.

Brian Funk:

It's, it's what gets me in trouble though, because then there's no room for the next thing. And then I got to pay everything down and there's no room for the next thing. I got to, but, um, when I'm finally getting to that arrangement part, it's, it's so much subtraction.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

It's all getting stuff out of the way because I'm, I will have this full sounding song of just like say it's like guitar, bass and drums and the vocals aren't even in there yet and it's a vocal song. So it doesn't make a lot of sense to take it to those extremes so early on. I think it's... I really think for me it's like a fear thing, it's a procrastination thing, where I'm like afraid to do the vocals, because that's something I don't feel as comfortable with.

Lynden Williams:

Mm.

Brian Funk:

I don't know how they're going to come out. So I'll dress everything else up real nice

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, getting ready.

Brian Funk:

to avoid it. Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah. Or you'll be like, I'm just gonna work on this a little longer. I'll do the vocals. I'm gonna do the vocals. Just

Brian Funk:

Yeah, we'll

Lynden Williams:

give

Brian Funk:

do

Lynden Williams:

me

Brian Funk:

a

Lynden Williams:

a little

Brian Funk:

day,

Lynden Williams:

time.

Brian Funk:

yeah, but for now I could really like EQ all these toms and...

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I think the drums need more tape. I'm just gonna look I'm just gonna buy a new tape plug-in. I don't know. We'll see

Brian Funk:

Exactly. For me, it's definitely like an insecurity, hiding fear thing.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I think that's probably what I was saying too about layering, right? Like, I think it's partially the sound, but I just do think there's a way that I could achieve the sound with less layers and then be less, be more confident in what's already written. Like knowing what you put into the recording already is enough and anything that's being added is simply... based on taste or decision, not like, it doesn't need. I go from like need a lot. Oh, the song needs this and then it will be done.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Oh, it's not good yet. Once it has this, it needs this. And I think I wanna go away from need and go more towards like desire. Like what do I want to add to this song? Maybe it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense in my head. ["Sweet Home Alone"]

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I think I get what you mean.

Lynden Williams:

Justifying continuing to work on it because you think you'll get to this point where you're like, ah, it's done.

Brian Funk:

If I think about a track, what does it need? Well, for the way I write, it needs the lyrics, right? It needs some sort of rhythm and some sort of like chordal foundation to put that all on. That's what it needs.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

And I often leave the need stuff until the very end, because I'm avoiding

Lynden Williams:

So

Brian Funk:

it.

Lynden Williams:

you

Brian Funk:

I'm

Lynden Williams:

actually

Brian Funk:

doing

Lynden Williams:

need,

Brian Funk:

like

Lynden Williams:

you're actually

Brian Funk:

all these

Lynden Williams:

needing.

Brian Funk:

fun, like, you know, weird spaceship sounds

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

in the background that you barely hear anyway. And I'm tweaking like compressors and reverbs and little details before I even have the thing built.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I uh... I find myself... train of thought in terms of like needing I find myself I was gonna say I find myself thinking like strongly like oh once it has this or this it'll then be a divorce court song and it's strange like I don't want to put myself too much in a box but I think sometimes I do I'm like well it's not here it's just an idea like there's a song on the album that I it's different than other stuff I've put out, it's called Tree. And it's really pared back. It's just piano. Michael Wall, a friend of mine, recorded this really beautiful baby grand, like 100 year old baby grand. And it's just a vocal and a piano and some really sparse synth work and then you, Kaia, like programs some really minimal drums. And it's like, I think it's a cool song because of like the collaboration with them. But I was always trying to ask myself like, during the release process, like, is this a divorce court song? And then it's hard, it's like, well, did I make it? But I don't think that way, you know? I think, and it does limit me in future writing, you know? I'm already making plans and folders for what I'm calling LP2. because I want to put out the next record sooner, without it consuming my life, but I want to put it out in a year instead of two years. Healthy, like a healthy length, and maybe not 12 songs, maybe it's less, but there's no planning. I try to plan and then it always falls through, but I would love to not, because this thing I say took two years, but there was just so much time where I wasn't working on it because of life and personal health. So I'd love to try to like stay in a good rhythm, but I don't know, like what is a song, what makes a song X project versus, because if you have one main project and that's the music that you put out, is every song in that project, because I want it to stay within a certain world and feeling, but is everything I make in that feeling? I don't know, that's the question. I'm not a composer or a, like a, music producer so I don't make a ton of different styles of music. I don't have that type of skill set. Like I can't sit down and be like, you know, today we're going to write a blues song. That's just not... brain works. I don't know.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, that's tricky. Um, that is one of the reasons why I just went with my name after a while. I just put

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

stuff out as my name because it's like, well, maybe I should put this out as a different thing because it's, I just started thinking about stuff too much. You

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

know, and was freeing to just be like, well, I'll just, how about I just use my name? Like, why does it need to be anything else? Why, why do we have artists names? When you think about it, it started as I started going down that whole way of thinking, I couldn't understand why bands have names,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

you know, why everything started to seem really weird and funny and awkward. So I just said, how about

Lynden Williams:

I

Brian Funk:

just.

Lynden Williams:

wonder who the first band name was.

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

Was it like in the 1930s?

Brian Funk:

We're the rock and rollers.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, or like

Brian Funk:

You

Lynden Williams:

the

Brian Funk:

know?

Lynden Williams:

Shoo-bee Doobie Brothers or something. Just like so strange.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I wonder whose

Brian Funk:

Like

Lynden Williams:

big

Brian Funk:

a

Lynden Williams:

idea

Brian Funk:

little

Lynden Williams:

that was.

Brian Funk:

gang.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I think it's cool. Sometimes I make some lo-fi hip hop stuff under this other project. It's fun because it's really... feels good to make that stuff and there's no like emotion attached to it minus like the joy of making the music like there's no lyrics and there's no like real personal thing being brought out besides like oh this is a beautiful chord progression or these drums sound nice but that stuff doesn't keep me up at night like divorce chord does you know

Brian Funk:

Yours is interesting too now, and this is definitely, I think, a big theme for you for this record. I mean, you were doing everything by yourself

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

back in the old days. Divorce court was just what Lyndon was calling his music,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

right?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

And now you've got a lot of collaboration going on. I think that's a big shift for you, right? This time around

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

is that you've got different people, musically production, mixing and other aspects as far as like, like you said, design and art and stuff. So it's now the question could actually be a little more tricky for you because is it still just what Lyndon does at

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

home when he's got some time feels it wants to make something or is it now this group of people you're playing live shows with?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, it feels, there's not like a, it feels more fun, honestly, you know, like letting other people in. It feels like freedom. I feel like this album, Two Hours, was like this, this like thing I needed to get out to then move forward and start making more music that I really, really wanna make, you know? And I want

Brian Funk:

of release.

Lynden Williams:

it all to. Yeah, it feels really nice to have it all out there. And the collaborations were so... These songs would not, they're not me, you know? I don't feel like, even when I listen to them, I can listen to them now and appreciate them because there's so much on them that I didn't do. Before

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

I would listen to my singles or they'd come on and I'd be like, oh, well, just me. I'm just listening to me, you know? And it felt weird and I'd pick it apart. But now I listen and I'm like, wow, Chase's guitar part, Chase's bass part, Damien's master. We haven't even talked about Damien. We should hit that next. But, or Ryan's mix here, or his decision on the vocal tell here, or the way that he mixed the drums, like wow. Or Ukiah's rhythm on the hi-hats. Like it's so cool to like be in a group where I can just sit there and appreciate the skills of those who like came on. You know what I mean? and that was really cool.

Brian Funk:

When I first started making songs and music, it was always in the context of a band.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

And it had to be because I couldn't do anything else. I could barely

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

play my guitar as it was. So, but I always like knew what I wanted everyone to do. You know,

Lynden Williams:

Mmm.

Brian Funk:

especially as I started kind of fooling around on drums and bass and stuff. I was like, it has to do this. And got very. almost like a dictator,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

you know, where like, no, you gotta, you gotta do this. It's just, trust me, it has to go this way. And then. playing music by myself and recording and having all the freedom to do all those things, make it exactly how I want,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

was great and a lot of fun. And now as I'm coming back to playing with a band again, it's so nice to be like, come up with the drums, come up with the bass, you know?

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

What do you wanna sing? That's why I'm here now. I'm here not because it's the only way I can make music. I'm here because I want to collaborate and I don't wanna do everything. drum part because it's going to make me play my guitar part different.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, no, so yes, definitely.

Brian Funk:

I could do it by myself if I want to. Why pull a bunch of people in and tell them what to do?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I would love to take the band and hop into like a studio for a day and re-record one of the singles from early on, like Indonesia or Sea of Wight or Doubt.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, right.

Lynden Williams:

and just reimagine it with their ideas. Because we do that a lot live. Any of those older songs, I just mute the guitar that I programmed or recorded rudimentarily. I don't know what the word is. The way that I was recording guitar back then, right? Sometimes just pick one note at a time and string it together. Or I just play VSTs, the plugins, guitar plugins. But. Or like, yeah, bring on, like, and going forward, writing these songs for the next record will be way more collaborative, even more than this one. Chase has already sent me ideas that he started, and Kevin is recording at home now with his bass parts, or he's really great with melody ideas. The, there's, well there's. Three things I wanted to talk about, and one was the master. I think the album sounds amazing on any device. Not only the mix by Ryan, but the master by Damian Taylor, who was a friend of mine through my work at Ableton. And he's a producer, a mix engineer, a mastering engineer, like just kind of has done it all over the years. And he has, I like saying this for him, but he has 10 Grammy nominations.

Brian Funk:

Wow.

Lynden Williams:

It's insane. He's just a loving workhorse. Like he's just so kind, but so like good at what he does. And he was so cool to collaborate with on this and take on this project and really helped me think about things. Once you finish that many records, there's things that you can share that like Bedroom producers don't know you know

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

and so I learned a ton from him

Brian Funk:

Anything

Lynden Williams:

and

Brian Funk:

in particular stand out?

Lynden Williams:

I Just never thought about track listing in With the final masters in how they run with each other on an album

Brian Funk:

track sequence, like

Lynden Williams:

Yes,

Brian Funk:

the order. Okay.

Lynden Williams:

not the sorry not the order, but like the way that the like tales like beginnings and tales and how like how much room to leave between for the next song and things like this that they do in the biz. You know what

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I mean? I just upload songs and be like, they're

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

out. You know what I mean?

Brian Funk:

That's something I appreciated about the record is that it keeps you in the feeling

Lynden Williams:

Hmm.

Brian Funk:

of the album. You know, it doesn't, you don't leave it too long in between songs.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, we talked about that and then I just ended up actually cutting some tails because I mix a lot of my tails on the stems long and then Ryan would leave it because it was cool. But some, I went through after and some of them I was like, let's get, let's get to the next one. Like we don't need a nine second reverb tail that I wrote and just handed off. That would go back and cut it back. But there were some really cool ones like. some really interesting hardware decisions that Ryan made in the mix, and then I kind of left those in there, but yeah, I got the master's back, and I was just like, this is why collaboration and spending money on things that have been advertised to us like they don't matter. Does that make sense?

Brian Funk:

Yeah, AI mastering.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, like

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

sure, like of

Brian Funk:

Upload

Lynden Williams:

course.

Brian Funk:

it and have it in three seconds.

Lynden Williams:

But of course, these things are necessary. My first single was mastered on Lander. And Lander's a great product, especially if you're a bedroom producer who's trying to just put stuff out and you don't have any money. And it does pretty well with a decent mix. And I know

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

the folks over at Lander, and I think their product's awesome. And some of their samples, libraries are cool. And They're trying to make music more accessible, which is great, but when you put your art that you spend so much time on into someone's human hands, and then they use their human ears to make decisions with knobs, with their hands, while listening back, I think it's just, I don't think it can be replicated. You know?

Brian Funk:

Yeah, for the first time ever, I had something mastered with the band. We took our album to a mastering engineer, Scott Anthony, and he ran it through tape, he had a beautiful room. And I mean, I don't even know what he was doing a lot of

Lynden Williams:

I'm

Brian Funk:

times.

Lynden Williams:

out.

Brian Funk:

There were times when he was turning the knob and I'm listening.

Lynden Williams:

And you're like...

Brian Funk:

It's like a half

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, he'll

Brian Funk:

of

Lynden Williams:

be like,

Brian Funk:

a

Lynden Williams:

he'll be A-B-ing it,

Brian Funk:

half a notch.

Lynden Williams:

like in the switch, you're like, mmm, A or B? It's like when you go to the optometrist and they're like, A? B. And it's the same, and you're like, mmm, B?

Brian Funk:

It's the cumulative effect though. You know, after it and just the attention to detail, the things, I was going to mix it to my tape machine, which needed some work before then. You know, he's cleaning the heads after every single time. He's running like test tones to make sure everything's, you know, stuff I don't know how to do.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

And... stuff I don't even know what he was doing half the time, demagnetizing it. But yeah, like after it was done, it was just like, well, magic almost. Just,

Lynden Williams:

Hmm

Brian Funk:

this is another level.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah

Brian Funk:

And I learned a ton. It was great he let us come in and sit with him

Lynden Williams:

Wow.

Brian Funk:

while he did everything. It was awesome. It was such a great experience as a band trip too. You know, we had fun that way.

Lynden Williams:

That's

Brian Funk:

So

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

it was really, but it was the effect was profound. You know, it sounded like an album after that.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, and they make these micro adjustments that are not noticeable to a non-expert's ears, right? But all those micro adjustments are the things that add up to the final product of the noticeability, right? For me, it's not in the moment, but at the end product, when you look at A or B, it's like, well, that's when I notice.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

It was just so great. And yeah, like I said, I just feel so like... it's stereotypical, but blessed to have worked with such a great group, even down to friends who worked on art, like Ty Davis did all the art direction and design, and you find people who really get your vision and then you don't have to give them much feedback because they understand the language, right? And then there's two collaborations on the record, like actual writing and lyrical collaboration on the record, which was completely new for the project, right? There had never been a feature on any of the songs before. So that was also like a cool learning, like learning curve and really rewarding, honestly.

Brian Funk:

Hmm. Yeah, those tracks came out really nice. And they sound a little different. They have,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

um, uh, what was it? I'm trying to blank on the name right now. Um, I think it was like the last single you released.

Lynden Williams:

Boop. Yeah, blind spot with doves.

Brian Funk:

Yes. Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

That had that. I got a little bit of the hip hop vibe from,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

um, in the vocals actually in

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

like, um, I don't know, maybe I'm thinking like. kind of a Juice WRLD, Post Malone-ish,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

you know, not... I don't know much of their music to really tell you,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah,

Brian Funk:

but...

Lynden Williams:

I mean big like their productions really big and like it does live with those like heavy 808s and like really interesting hi-hat programming and really noisy like Dove's project is Production wise it's incredible like lots of noise and distortion And that is the cool thing, like you get those influences on both, like Spill featuring Mal from Nowhere, like he's from Kenya, you know, and he's like a multidisciplinary artist out of Kenya and he's putting out these beautiful singles and albums that like, it's hip hop and it's... poetry and it's his album was really collaborative too and we were coming out with records at the same time and that collaboration came together really easily and He just like understood the vision really well and then the Doves track too like Does has been like one of my best friends since I was 15

Brian Funk:

Nice.

Lynden Williams:

And we've collaborated on things over the years. Like, he actually played the guitar on Indonesia, my second single.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

And you can tell, like, it's not me. Like, there's a really nice, it's at the end, and it's like a really nice distortion, and it's like this really cool building guitar that just like gets louder and louder to the end. But... Yeah, that was cool. That song feels super special to me just because of that collaboration. And then like just like the theme, it's the last thing you hear on the record lyrically. And it's just this idea that like nothing's real. And it's just like this bookend of like trying to, you know, heal yourself and move forward and just understand that like, hey, like most of this stuff isn't. or most things you're scared of won't happen, or most of these anxieties are just anxieties. They're not real, you know? Most of these things we worry about aren't real. Social media is not even real.

Brian Funk:

Hehehe

Lynden Williams:

You know, like it drives engagement, and it's really fun. Like the thing that I'd miss the most about social media is messaging with people that I wouldn't talk to, like over text, like friends from other countries who I just maybe met once or twice, who we don't have like a texting relationship, see what they're up to.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely the good side, but I know what you mean about the

Lynden Williams:

Or like, yeah, like

Brian Funk:

not

Lynden Williams:

seeing what

Brian Funk:

real

Lynden Williams:

you're up to,

Brian Funk:

dark

Lynden Williams:

you know?

Brian Funk:

side.

Lynden Williams:

Or commenting on your stuff, or seeing like, you post the snippet from music making, or the podcast, like things that you wouldn't text me about. Hey, check out my new podcast episode, you know? Like it

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

does have a purpose. I just, I wish I could pay for an ad free version that was chronological. So bad.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I'd

Lynden Williams:

You know?

Brian Funk:

probably lose a lot of friends if I was always texting him like, hey

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

man, I

Lynden Williams:

new

Brian Funk:

made

Lynden Williams:

episodes.

Brian Funk:

this cool effect.

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah, new pack. Earpacks

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

are so great.

Brian Funk:

Oh, thanks, man.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I love them. I end up going back a lot to some of like, Washed. You remember that one? I

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

like that.

Brian Funk:

yeah, I remember you liked that one a lot. I was happy you liked that one because that was one that I always felt was really cool, but I didn't know how to tell people how cool it was,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

you know, when you made it. Sometimes when you're doing things like that, you don't know how to explain what's cool about it, or at least in like a concise way. Some

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

are easy, like recorded to VHS state. Cool.

Lynden Williams:

That's so easy, right? Yeah, like,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

those drums are sick. VHS drums, wow. I forget the preset. It was like the name of a movie character, but I was always

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

using

Brian Funk:

they're all

Lynden Williams:

it.

Brian Funk:

like 80s action

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

movie

Lynden Williams:

yeah, yeah.

Brian Funk:

characters. That's a hard

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

thing to figure out too is what to name them all.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I always think that when I go through presets of things, like some of the names are so funny. But.

Brian Funk:

You know, having that like collaboration though with Dove, somebody that you knew when you were a teenager,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

because I mean it's so cool because you just, you're never gonna meet anybody new that knew you as a teenager that you can

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

work with. You know, they, it's like friends that you have when you're that young, you just can't make new friends like that anymore. It's

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

impossible.

Lynden Williams:

and we would talk about, like we were both, we'd both DJ, right, at that time, and DAWs were, they were less accessible, I think, because it just wasn't. pushed in our faces as much, so we didn't really know what was possible. You know, GarageBand was loaded on my MacBook, but I'd use it sometimes, but we were really into DJing and we both had similar interests and we actually made a few tracks together, which is funny now that it's cool that we're both still making music, like the love didn't fall away. And uh... I don't know what the word is, like... you wouldn't say, I don't know what defines you as a successful music maker, but I think like, if you are still doing it,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

you know, after half your life, there's a reason.

Brian Funk:

If you've made music, you're

Lynden Williams:

Right,

Brian Funk:

a

Lynden Williams:

like,

Brian Funk:

successful

Lynden Williams:

I think you

Brian Funk:

music maker,

Lynden Williams:

said

Brian Funk:

right?

Lynden Williams:

one time, maybe it was you, but you were like, it's not, is it a song, until you put it out and somebody hears it, like, is it a song? right? Like does it exist? Does it exist? Maybe it was a different interview I was listening to but once you finish a song and put it out, then it's a song. And I think anyone who's put out a song, that's so huge. It's so

Brian Funk:

It

Lynden Williams:

hard.

Brian Funk:

is. It's nearly impossible

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, and especially early

Brian Funk:

in a lot

Lynden Williams:

on,

Brian Funk:

of ways.

Lynden Williams:

to learn about like the, how to even get the sounds from the computer to the final output to upload a song, a WAV file to the internet. My first upload on SoundCloud was called Tropics. and I just couldn't believe it. I spent most

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

of that time trying to figure out in Logic how to program the sound of a record, like stopping and starting, like, zh-zh-zh-zh-zh-zh.

Brian Funk:

Uh huh.

Lynden Williams:

And I spent probably half of the production time on that one beat trying to figure that out, you know?

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

It's

Brian Funk:

That's

Lynden Williams:

so

Brian Funk:

cool.

Lynden Williams:

interesting. But.

Brian Funk:

Well, when you think about it from the moment you sit down to decide to try to make something to that moment, when you actually decide it's okay to release, there's infinite opportunities for self doubt and fear and

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

technical issues. So many things can happen to you in between that, just getting bored of it.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

It is almost a wonder that anything ever gets put out. I

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

always say whenever anyone puts something out, like congratulations, like, and it's nice. I often will like remind myself too, like it's possible.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's evidence that I could do it too. Somebody did it.

Lynden Williams:

Right,

Brian Funk:

It's

Lynden Williams:

it's

Brian Funk:

not impossible.

Lynden Williams:

such a nice reminder. Like in

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

an interview with my friend Raul in Mexico City, I'll never forget when he was talking about like. not like the competitiveness of it, but having a lot of friends who make music, when they put something out, it makes you wanna put something out that's cool, and that's new and fresh, and it really invigorates you to get straight to music making and be like, oh, I wanna put something out. Not even to try to one-up them or make something better, or just, it's just cool to be like, I know that person, and they're doing really cool stuff, and I also want to be creating. And there's this, my... and I have been reading or listening to rather Rick Rubin's The Creative Act.

Brian Funk:

great. I love

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

it.

Lynden Williams:

and

Brian Funk:

Listening is great too.

Lynden Williams:

yeah because

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

it's his voice it's so great.

Brian Funk:

And his voice is just like so loaded with wisdom.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, when oh, I know it's so gritty and deep

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

when I would get down on I mean, I can't say enough about having a supportive partner in creating and investing time and money

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

into a project.

Brian Funk:

well, and she seems very involved as well

Lynden Williams:

So involved.

Brian Funk:

in some of the videos

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

and...

Lynden Williams:

Videos, vocals on two of the tracks, like sitting here, listening to all their visions, giving good constructive feedback. It's life-changing because there's times where you just want to quit.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

And then if your partner didn't care, they'd be like, yeah, sell your stuff. That's great. We can make all that money. There's a lot of money

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

in here.

Brian Funk:

well, we could change that room now.

Lynden Williams:

Exactly. Right. We could, you know, put

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

a.

Brian Funk:

Even just having someone that is okay with you doing it,

Lynden Williams:

Exactly.

Brian Funk:

spending your time and like understanding that

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

it's it for whatever reason makes you a better person or, uh, it's just an important outlet. That's it. I mean, it doesn't even have to be much,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

but. You know, there's been times in my life with people where they didn't get it and

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

it was, that didn't work out, you know. So it is, it's, I couldn't imagine if I had it any other way where, you know, if my wife was like giving me like the side eye when I went to make music, it would be, that'd

Lynden Williams:

It's

Brian Funk:

be

Lynden Williams:

so important,

Brian Funk:

awful.

Lynden Williams:

and it's important I think for me to be with a creative person because she's inspiring me, like if I'm in a rut and I see her being creative with all of her outlets, I'm like, okay, I feel energized again. We really love this part in that book, the Rick Rubin book where he talks about this idea. It was in this perfect time where I was like really burnt out and I was like, we have to finish these last three songs and the singles are already out, I already have a release date. The money's been spent. And he said that creativity flows through you and if you don't do it, then someone else will. And I was just like. Okay, that's motivating because I do feel like some of this stuff doesn't feel like it was a choice.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

And that's like a kind of spiritual way to look at it, but, and I'm not trying to sit here and say that I'm special or that the album is just the most amazing thing ever, but for my personal journey, it didn't feel like a choice in some ways to do, to say certain things or to like inject certain feelings into the music. And when he said that I was like, man, I guess I gotta do this because it's right here. And if I choose not to do it, then the universe will just move on to the next person get this message out and I have to like just once more put the caveat and I'm not saying I have this great message like join my cult of divorce court but I do strongly believe that Rick Rubin is right and that energy is real and that like we're all doing this all day and that's why music exists it's just energy like we're saying in language and feeling and I love when an album or a single gives me that feeling that wash over your body of just... Auditory pleasure right I'm just like

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

this hits this hits me right in the feels and I just I'm adding this song to my playlist right now, and I'm going to listen to it every day for the next three months You know It's a

Brian Funk:

It

Lynden Williams:

great book

Brian Funk:

really does change you. it can take you from one mood to another from one wavelength. And that can change your actions. That can change your direction. That can change the way you talk to somebody that might change. It really is kind of wild when you think of all the potential ripples it can cause.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

And it is like, you do gotta act on it too. When

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, you can't ignore

Brian Funk:

I get a

Lynden Williams:

it.

Brian Funk:

lot of... a lot of weird, all kinds of like comparisons, like what it's like. Sometimes it's sculpting, sometimes it's jamming a square block into a circle, sometimes it's fishing, you know?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

And for what you're saying, you know, to me, like right now, this reminds me of fishing or something, where like that fish is going by,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

and you can either be there for it or not,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

but you do have to be there for it. You have to get it, you have to pursue

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

it. Sometimes you gotta chase it, sometimes you gotta grab it and hold it, sometimes you gotta let go of it and just

Lynden Williams:

Yes, that's

Brian Funk:

go

Lynden Williams:

the hard one,

Brian Funk:

catch

Lynden Williams:

right?

Brian Funk:

like the drift, almost like a bicyclist in a pack that's catching that, is it drift,

Lynden Williams:

What's

Brian Funk:

is that what

Lynden Williams:

it,

Brian Funk:

it's

Lynden Williams:

draft,

Brian Funk:

called?

Lynden Williams:

right? Draft?

Brian Funk:

Drafts?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, when you're behind someone. Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Right, they help you go. Like,

Lynden Williams:

There's a... I feel like this is less like a music production topic and more of just like a releasing music topic, which I think is important, but I feel like there's things that I invested some money into during this record that I wouldn't recommend or do again. And that's part of what I learned when I said I feel like I took a course on. Because there's no label, right? So every dollar you spend is your own money. And you fully accept that there's a probably high likelihood that you won't get it back at least anytime soon. For a while.

Brian Funk:

Oh, I don't expect any of it. And,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, but you don't want to close the door, you know, you leave it open. Maybe.

Brian Funk:

yeah, we'll leave the door

Lynden Williams:

Maaaybe.

Brian Funk:

open, but I'm not,

Lynden Williams:

Ha. Yeah.

Brian Funk:

we did that with our album. We put it on vinyl. We made a hundred

Lynden Williams:

Oh, wow.

Brian Funk:

copies.

Lynden Williams:

What?

Brian Funk:

Yeah, we made a hundred. And we still have most of them.

Lynden Williams:

pay.

Brian Funk:

And, but we were like, look, there's three people we know that want this.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, and 100 was the minimum order, right?

Brian Funk:

As a minimum, yeah. Yeah, we got the minimum. But. We're like, look, that was just the goal. You know, let's

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

put it together and do it together. But yeah,

Lynden Williams:

And

Brian Funk:

there's

Lynden Williams:

those

Brian Funk:

no

Lynden Williams:

types

Brian Funk:

expectation.

Lynden Williams:

of things are important, right? The things that you really want. Like I did mine to cassette. And I've sold it, you know, not all of them, but I've sold like a small amount. And it's cool, it's cool that this lives on and they're really

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

good quality. They're

Brian Funk:

and it's

Lynden Williams:

made,

Brian Funk:

a thing too. Like

Lynden Williams:

yeah,

Brian Funk:

that,

Lynden Williams:

it's physical.

Brian Funk:

the physical, the physicality of it's really cool to hold it. Like I've got a, I made a couple CDs back like 15 years ago and then everything in between is just in the cloud or wherever, it's nowhere, you can't. touch it. And then this record we made is a thing again, even

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

the book I made when I wasn't going to print it, but then I saw how easy it was to have Amazon do it for you. And when I held it, I was like, holy shit,

Lynden Williams:

Oh, the book. Yeah, yeah, the book.

Brian Funk:

that's

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

a thing.

Lynden Williams:

Mm

Brian Funk:

It's

Lynden Williams:

hmm.

Brian Funk:

not just a document like, you know, in your computer doesn't, it doesn't take up space.

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

But that, that is powerful. You know, it's cool you did that, that you made them

Lynden Williams:

It's

Brian Funk:

cassettes

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

too.

Lynden Williams:

I love it. And the design is amazing. If anything, I would say order the cassette just because of my friend Ty Davis's like J-Card design. It's like a work. I love it. Like, I just think it's so...

Brian Funk:

J card, I haven't heard that in a

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

long

Lynden Williams:

and it's

Brian Funk:

time.

Lynden Williams:

like a threefold. So you open it up and there's like,

Brian Funk:

Cool.

Lynden Williams:

there's just, I don't know, it's just art, you know, it's cool. And I, uh, but yeah, I think I would spend less on... There's things that labels do to promote music that we don't know about. you know, because they have their connections and their email addresses and the people that are relationships who support the label. I'm not trying to, I'm not going to accuse any labels of doing, like it's just they have their relationships and it's amazing.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, that's part of, I mean, that's, you know, why there's still labels, right? Because we can all put our music out to everyone now.

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

That used to be part of it.

Lynden Williams:

Oh, it's amazing. And I would love to find a cool label for Divorce Court. I'm not anti-label, but I didn't find one for this release. And I don't think it mattered much for this one, because it was such a personal endeavor. And like I said, I wouldn't have learned all these things if I had a label. Trying to figure out every single piece of it was super. rewarding but yeah there's money that was spent I really have a hard time like you get served ads all the time like where it's like here uh... will promote music and get you on all these places on spotify luckily i did not do that i was getting bombarded the algorithm knew i was releasing a record all these companies want you to pay forty to five hundred dollars for packages for spotify plays and it's super dangerous because if any of those are bots it's gonna screw up your whole algorithm and the algorithm is what keeps your fans engaged because it's gonna send your music to their friends and their favorite artists favorite artists right like

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

I think it's important to respect your algorithm and I think although we don't have like a huge amount of monthly listeners I think we have a good amount of followers based on how many monthly listeners we have

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

and if I was to pay for those packages like that could have really screwed us up and been a bad decision and

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

You know, we use certain playlist pitching sites, like SubmitHub's great, you know? Like there's some really great bloggers on there, and we got some amazing write-ups from kind people around the world. And some YouTube channels who are awesome posted about it. And I feel we tried TikTok ads,

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

not recommended.

Brian Funk:

Hm.

Lynden Williams:

It would be like a... And some of this is embarrassing to even admit, right? Because it's like, it feels like desperation, but it also is like, this is how it works, right? Like this is just what people do, right? But... it would be like 50,000 views on your TikTok and then it would have zero comments and like two likes. And I'm like, does

Brian Funk:

right

Lynden Williams:

this make sense? This doesn't feel

Brian Funk:

yeah

Lynden Williams:

right to me, you know? And you spend like a

Brian Funk:

uh

Lynden Williams:

hundred

Brian Funk:

huh

Lynden Williams:

bucks or whatever. So I would not recommend. I'm not an expert on TikTok, so I can't speak on the... I think if you're great at speaking to camera and performing and being in that world, I think it's great, but. If you're a musician who's trying to just share what you've already created, like here's a music video that I've already created. I don't think it's super useful, but if it was like here's a song that I'm going to play right here on TikTok

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

on the piano only and sing to the camera, I think it's great.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I don't think anyone's scrolling TikTok looking for music videos

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

necessarily.

Lynden Williams:

YouTube's great for that. I love

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

my, YouTube's great. We just like have a good, we have loyal listeners on YouTube. Not a lot, but like people who are on YouTube are seeing all this stuff. And I feel like

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

it's a nice audience. I'm a big fan of YouTube.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I am too. I think their algorithm and everything is set up to give people what they want.

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

I mean, I'm like sensitive about my own YouTube account and that like, sometimes I don't want to watch a certain video. Like if

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

I'm trying to

Lynden Williams:

same.

Brian Funk:

fix my lawnmower, I'm like

Lynden Williams:

Right?

Brian Funk:

afraid to watch too many videos because then I'm gonna skew what I've like spent all these years building up. That's

Lynden Williams:

You could

Brian Funk:

been

Lynden Williams:

like

Brian Funk:

so...

Lynden Williams:

make a new account just called LawnGuy and only do lawn stuff over there. You know?

Brian Funk:

Yeah, like it... I've come to appreciate how well it knows me, even if there's something creepy about that.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian Funk:

I think you're really right though about being careful about that stuff, because if they're not already onto it, the algorithm people program this in is going to figure out when people are pulling some strings and manipulating it.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, and it wouldn't even be your doing, right? You didn't know.

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

You know, and

Brian Funk:

I

Lynden Williams:

these,

Brian Funk:

had this

Lynden Williams:

I mean,

Brian Funk:

experience.

Lynden Williams:

I don't think they have your best interest in mind. They're not like, they're not a fan of you. They just want your money, you know.

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

["The Last Supper"]

Brian Funk:

There was an experience I had once. I'd played a show and there was a guy that showed up like a photographer or something and he said we could work together and he put my like put like a profile for me on his website and my Twitter went from like I don't know what I had maybe like a thousand followers to like six thousand followers overnight.

Lynden Williams:

You mean your ex.

Brian Funk:

What's that?

Lynden Williams:

Did you see? Sorry to cut you off. Twitter rebranded to X.

Brian Funk:

Oh, yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Your X account.

Brian Funk:

There you go.

Lynden Williams:

6,000 though, that's crazy.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. And I'm like, what? What happened? You know, why, why am I seeing this all here out of nowhere? And

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

it's no other evidence that this happened except that the number is higher. I start looking at them and I'm like, what are these people? I asked the guy about it. He's like, well, our website just gets lots of hits. You know, like, yeah, right. And

Lynden Williams:

Dude, like,

Brian Funk:

as I looked,

Lynden Williams:

what are you, The New York Times? You

Brian Funk:

yeah.

Lynden Williams:

don't get that many hits.

Brian Funk:

I'm like, and why are they just deciding like they need to follow me now? And as I start like combing through the profiles, one follower, no followers, they're following a million people.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

And I was so upset because to get to wherever it was, I mean, it took a lot of work and,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

and it wasn't, you know, crazy numbers or anything, but for me, it was as high as I've ever been. So

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

to see that all of a sudden now like invalidated and if anyone were to look, they'd be like, oh, everyone that follows this guy's fake. It's

Lynden Williams:

And

Brian Funk:

like.

Lynden Williams:

it's like muddy now because you don't even know who you're engaging with because you don't know who your

Brian Funk:

Well,

Lynden Williams:

followers

Brian Funk:

they weren't,

Lynden Williams:

are.

Brian Funk:

those people weren't engaging at all. They weren't

Lynden Williams:

But if

Brian Funk:

even,

Lynden Williams:

you look at your list of followers,

Brian Funk:

yeah.

Lynden Williams:

there's no... it's just a bunch of names

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

now.

Brian Funk:

I don't have any idea who, yeah, it was really upsetting, you know, when you have put the time in, whatever you've built, however

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

small, you still built it. And then to have it just kind of like glossed over with all this fake nonsense.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, it's interesting you say like whatever you built because like I see my project as like a uh enjoyable food cart You know i'm like there on the corner you come get like a really nice Torta or like a really good taco and it's like that You know, but then like some of these bigger artists you see as like chilies, you know? Like they have, they make so much money, they're like putting out so much, their output's huge, they're like corporate, but no matter, I say this bad analogy because no matter what the size, it still matters. And I think sometimes with all of the data and inundation with pressure to grow it, you start to maybe create your own narrative that doesn't matter. it's not as big you know like it matters

Brian Funk:

Well, if you

Lynden Williams:

to

Brian Funk:

ever

Lynden Williams:

somebody

Brian Funk:

look, yeah, if your food cart had like four glowing reviews on Google reviews or

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

whatever.

Lynden Williams:

I'd rather go to the food cart than Chili's.

Brian Funk:

And compared to then, if you got like now a thousand

Lynden Williams:

Hmm.

Brian Funk:

fake ones, all that like credibility is just gone.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Cause, cause you could see foreign people be like, ah, this is like a little secret in

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

downtown wherever we can go to the food cart, but

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

if it's just all fake stuff, it's like, oh, this is just nonsense.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's

Lynden Williams:

I feel

Brian Funk:

nothing.

Lynden Williams:

like I threw us on a really weird road, but it makes sense in my brain, you know?

Brian Funk:

It does.

Lynden Williams:

I love when I find an artist that blows me away and they're... stats I guess don't like represent how impressed you are with their music. But that's dumb because we've been trained by Spotify to think that matters. You know like we've been trained to say like oh wow like 350,000 monthlies that must mean they're good.

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

You know, but it's like I actually like took the artist app like off my phone because I was like, wait, why am I checking Spotify for artists? Like it's a social network to like check data. Like my music is not about data. I don't care about, I shouldn't care about the data. It doesn't matter how many plays I'm getting. It matters that I am proud of this thing that I created and I'm proud of my friends who created their thing and we shouldn't be looking at each other. The, the, the monthly listeners and the play counts. It's just, it gamifies music making and I just like I'm starting to really feel like tension from it, you know?

Brian Funk:

When are you gonna feel good about it? You know what I mean?

Lynden Williams:

I know. No,

Brian Funk:

Like

Lynden Williams:

I, yeah,

Brian Funk:

what's

Lynden Williams:

cause you,

Brian Funk:

that number?

Lynden Williams:

right, cause

Brian Funk:

Is

Lynden Williams:

if

Brian Funk:

it

Lynden Williams:

you have 500,000

Brian Funk:

a thousand

Lynden Williams:

monthlies, you look

Brian Funk:

five?

Lynden Williams:

at some of your favorite artists and they have 3 million monthlies.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, well shit,

Lynden Williams:

But like

Brian Funk:

how

Lynden Williams:

my,

Brian Funk:

do I get to that

Lynden Williams:

the first

Brian Funk:

until

Lynden Williams:

like physical,

Brian Funk:

you get to that?

Lynden Williams:

yeah, like the first physical CD I ever ordered was, uh, you know the band Starfucker?

Brian Funk:

That sounds very familiar.

Lynden Williams:

They're from Portland?

Brian Funk:

Or is that a song? It's...

Lynden Williams:

I think they have a song that's called, they're

Brian Funk:

But

Lynden Williams:

like

Brian Funk:

I think

Lynden Williams:

a...

Brian Funk:

maybe there was a band that had a song called Starfuckin'

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, well, they,

Brian Funk:

Rolling Stones

Lynden Williams:

I ordered like two of their CDs when I discovered them as a teenager. And no part of me, I just found them on maybe MySpace or maybe just on the record label site, but no part of me went to go check or looked at stats. Like I didn't know how many listeners around the world or daily listeners any of my favorite artists had ever, and it didn't matter, you know.

Brian Funk:

I can remember even taking pride in liking bands that no one else liked

Lynden Williams:

That's

Brian Funk:

as

Lynden Williams:

what I

Brian Funk:

a teenager.

Lynden Williams:

mean. It's so cool because I didn't, no one had told me about this band. So I was excited to show my friends this

Brian Funk:

I found

Lynden Williams:

new CD.

Brian Funk:

it. Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

But then I also didn't know their metrics. Like, well, I don't need metrics on everybody's music at all times.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

It's really strange.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. Well, that used to be a fun thing back in like when I was a teenager in the 90s to like, to like a band that wasn't big yet. It was

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah,

Brian Funk:

like

Lynden Williams:

that was

Brian Funk:

cool.

Lynden Williams:

the best. Yeah. And then when your friends

Brian Funk:

It's the

Lynden Williams:

liked

Brian Funk:

opposite.

Lynden Williams:

it too, you were like, we like this band

Brian Funk:

I liked them

Lynden Williams:

together.

Brian Funk:

first.

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah, it's like a competition.

Brian Funk:

I'm

Lynden Williams:

It's

Brian Funk:

more

Lynden Williams:

a,

Brian Funk:

underground than you.

Lynden Williams:

it used to be fun to show people, like more fun I think to show people music.

Brian Funk:

Well, because you had to, right? Because you had the CD, you need to have the thing.

Lynden Williams:

when you were consciously putting this song. whether it was in your car or on your iPhone. We sound

Brian Funk:

there.

Lynden Williams:

old, but like, it's cool to listen to music consciously, and I think that's why people like cassettes and records, because

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

when we got that new Heaven is a Junkyard vinyl from Youth Lagoon, my wife and I, she's like a huge fan, right? We pulled the vinyl out and laid it on the floor and just listened to the whole thing, front to back. You know, it's different than just putting a new album on from divorce court in the car while you drive.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

because it's going to bleed into the radio after, divorce court radio.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

But like, the vinyl ended, and then you just hear the needle, and then you process, like, oh, that's the end of the record. It's over. There's no more sound. Wow, like, it's like a book, you know? And I

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

miss that. I miss that a lot, like, conscious listening.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm. Yeah deliberate actually sitting down to do it.

Lynden Williams:

And no part of me is like a elitist or I don't even have a huge collection of vinyl or tapes or anything and I don't have a super nice sound system minus the what I use in the studio here but I just miss it you know like music listening is so different and it's hard to adjust to as a listener and as a music maker because you try to figure out where what you're supposed to do or where you go with it.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, and a lot of my music listening is done in headphones and often these little AirPods,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

and they're like the oldest ones, I think. So

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah,

Brian Funk:

they probably

Lynden Williams:

they

Brian Funk:

sound

Lynden Williams:

die

Brian Funk:

way

Lynden Williams:

pretty

Brian Funk:

better

Lynden Williams:

quick,

Brian Funk:

now.

Lynden Williams:

right?

Brian Funk:

They're still going for this conversation, which is cool.

Lynden Williams:

I had

Brian Funk:

I don't

Lynden Williams:

those,

Brian Funk:

know how

Lynden Williams:

they,

Brian Funk:

much more juice I have left,

Lynden Williams:

yeah,

Brian Funk:

but.

Lynden Williams:

the battery started to die. I, they sound decent though for, I like checking mixes on AirPods.

Brian Funk:

I check them on anything, even just out my phone,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

because I know people listen to music that way. But I miss the actual energy coming out of the speakers sometimes too, where you know, in your headphones, it sounds nice and it's your own personal experience and it's convenient a lot of times. But there's also something about just like the actual air being pushed against your body.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm and the way that

Brian Funk:

That

Lynden Williams:

the sound like moves around the room

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

You know

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

yeah, I love that. I like to make music not in the headphones a lot I am in the market for some new monitors at some point in the next year. I just have like the Yamaha HS7s They've been great.

Brian Funk:

Nice.

Lynden Williams:

I mean, I'm not like I said, I'm not mixing for anyone or for myself most of time I'm getting it where I need and then sending it off Yeah, that's a that's a that's a rabbit hole that I'm scared to go down because there's so many options.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

You know, and I don't have a treated room. But I don't really feel like I need one for non mixing, just for production. You know, I don't

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

know. What do you have?

Brian Funk:

I've got some nice ones right now. Head MK7,

Lynden Williams:

Mm.

Brian Funk:

MK2 maybe it's called.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I think I looked at those.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, they offered a nice discount for. Ableton trainers, you know,

Lynden Williams:

Oh

Brian Funk:

so

Lynden Williams:

nice, that's great.

Brian Funk:

I Bit on that and I love them. They're great They had a little bit of trouble with like a chip in them and I had to send them back twice

Lynden Williams:

Whoa.

Brian Funk:

So I got very early batch of them They

Lynden Williams:

Hmm.

Brian Funk:

actually told me I might have been the first person in the states to get them when I

Lynden Williams:

Wow,

Brian Funk:

got them

Lynden Williams:

that's

Brian Funk:

Which

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

is cool, but I think because of that I got like a bad ship or something, but they're awesome. I mean And my room's not very treated.

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

I've got some paneling and bass traps I've put up just myself, which helped a lot. But you know, I'm not in like, I mean, there's a washing machine behind me that you can't see in the shot.

Lynden Williams:

I've got like the kitchen of my house here through glass doors and then the front here through glass doors here so it's just like half windows this room and it's hard so yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's nice though, when you get a, like having a nice pair of speakers is great, but I still always have to check everywhere.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

Not everyone else has those speakers. I'm not even hardly listening on those except

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

for when I'm working, you know? So...

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

it's important to go in the car. I probably know my car better. Honestly,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

I've been driving that thing for a long time, over a decade I think, so I've listened to tons of music in there, more than I have on these monitors.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just excited to make new music. I've been, I got some new like some new plugins that I haven't really dove into that I want to play on and just like start fresh. I love,

Brian Funk:

That's.

Lynden Williams:

I love fresh sessions. You know,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

like you just open up an Ableton Live session. It's just there's just endless possibilities. You know, I haven't done that in a while.

Brian Funk:

which can be scary too.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

How do you approach that? Because that's, you know, the blank canvas is

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

sometimes paralyzing.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I don't try to look at... There was this quote I heard once, and I use it for my work with documentary filmmaking, where it's like don't start with the how, start with the why. And I really love that because when I'd be like planning a stressful shoot or trying to figure out how to solve a problem, I'd always be like, how are we gonna do this? I don't know, I gotta make a list. I was like, well let's say why. Why are you doing this? and then start and then once you ask the question of why you go down the list of if the how applies to the why for me it's like well why am i in this blank session well right now i really wanna program some drums well i really am in the mood to like play the keys and hear this new plugin from teletone audio right like i'm just i really wanna dive in and explore uh... drift You know, like stuff like that. And I think that's how most of my music making starts. I don't ever like sit down and say, today I'm going to write my new single. Like that's just not, I don't, it just doesn't work that way in my brain, you know? I'm not

Brian Funk:

Time

Lynden Williams:

that,

Brian Funk:

for the new single.

Lynden Williams:

right. by the end of this week i'll have my new single ready for the world it's like no that's not it's not realistic for

Brian Funk:

That's a

Lynden Williams:

me

Brian Funk:

lot of pressure too, right?

Lynden Williams:

i'm sure there's so many people who can do that like session type musicians today we're tracking the guitar for our whole record and by the end of the day i'll have done two full songs and have it tracked and recorded it's like good for you

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

but like we talked about it's very emotional process

Brian Funk:

I like the why approach. I

Lynden Williams:

yeah why are

Brian Funk:

like,

Lynden Williams:

you doing this

Brian Funk:

yeah, I like to think about like, why am I doing this? What am I trying to accomplish? Why would someone listen to this? What are they doing when they listen to it? Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

What do I? Like

Brian Funk:

I want

Lynden Williams:

what is

Brian Funk:

music

Lynden Williams:

it that makes me...

Brian Funk:

for the bike ride. Okay, cool. Like now

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

I

Lynden Williams:

that's

Brian Funk:

have a place

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

to start,

Lynden Williams:

Bycred

Brian Funk:

you know?

Lynden Williams:

music. There are some beautiful scenes in them. I love the show High Maintenance

Brian Funk:

Mm.

Lynden Williams:

on HBO and I thought

Brian Funk:

Great music. I

Lynden Williams:

the music supervisor,

Brian Funk:

love,

Lynden Williams:

I was

Brian Funk:

I've...

Lynden Williams:

just gonna say she did a wonderful job. I think it's she, I forget her name, but I've

Brian Funk:

Yeah, they

Lynden Williams:

done...

Brian Funk:

have like a playlist on Apple

Lynden Williams:

I've

Brian Funk:

Music

Lynden Williams:

done the research

Brian Funk:

that I...

Lynden Williams:

because I was like, man, the music supervisor on this show did an incredible job.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I feel like I learned about a couple of new bands.

Lynden Williams:

There's a scene, I think, that's just a bike ride scene through Brooklyn at night, and it's Tycho's A Walk. And it's just like the most beautiful scene, you know? I like New York a lot, and obviously you're near there, like near the city, but I've kind of romanticized it over the years because of its usage in film and television.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

And I'd like to let that magic continue to live on.

Brian Funk:

Right,

Lynden Williams:

So when

Brian Funk:

yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I visit, I treat it like, oh wow, I'm here, whoa. I don't ever wanna have that moment where I'm like, ugh, New York,

Brian Funk:

Thanks for

Lynden Williams:

so

Brian Funk:

watching!

Lynden Williams:

I'm not moving there, because I really,

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

yeah.

Brian Funk:

it happens when you move here.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's incredible. But I told you I was in Utah last week and it was just so nice and clean and, um, the air, no humidity, which

Lynden Williams:

Hmm.

Brian Funk:

was almost a problem. I had like a little bit of a bloody nose

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

just from the humidity. I chapped lips. Um, but. the air in the mountains was just great otherwise.

Lynden Williams:

It's amazing. Yeah, and it's crazy, right? Like for you as a New Yorker, like landing in the Salt Lake Airport, right? And just

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

like getting a car and just cruising, like there's no traffic.

Brian Funk:

Yes.

Lynden Williams:

And you just, suddenly you're driving up the mountain 15 minutes later to Park City. It's a beautiful place. I think, and I think people are starting to catch on. You know, we had a

Brian Funk:

I

Lynden Williams:

lot.

Brian Funk:

think so, based on the development.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, a lot of people moved here. You know, I'm a transplant from California. There's a negative sentiment towards Californians in Utah because they all moved here.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, probably New York too, city folk.

Lynden Williams:

Every other ski lift in the winter when I hop on is like a family from New Jersey. Who's there visiting for the week skiing?

Brian Funk:

But it's

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

so

Lynden Williams:

it's

Brian Funk:

nice

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

to get those different places and perspectives, you know, the terrain, the hills, the mountains.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's refreshing and it also, it does make me appreciate here as well. I'm not in the city, I'm on Long Island, so,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

and kind of rural where I am, a little bit anyway. but it does, you know, it was like the swamp when I got back here with humidity. But in a way it was kind of nice, because like, okay, now my skin's gonna

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

be moisturized automatically.

Lynden Williams:

I think I do some of my best creative planning when I travel. I always have intentions to create when I travel. I travel a decent amount for working with family. And I really love to get out. And I love utilizing SkyMiles and stuff, trying to get the system and get points and stuff. But I'm not a fan of SkyMiles. I feel like I do my best, like I always have the intention of, I bring my stuff, I'm like, oh I'm gonna make this, I'll bring my push, or I'll bring like, and I never really create, but I feel like I do a lot of creative, like planning work. I'll write lyrics, or I'll like... make lists or like really prepare to go back to create. And I've kind of accepted that's how I operate. I had a friend once who went to Japan during like the cherry blossom season, Zach Duvall, he makes music, has Kudo. He did a remix for me on one of my tracks, it's amazing actually. On my track, same, but he had the blender. He went to Japan with a sampler and a laptop and made like a full beat tape. just sitting there in the park and I always thought that was just like the most incredible and it comes through like on VTA it's just like such a cool VTA and you feel the place you know but that's admirable because when I'm traveling I think I'm too distracted to like get work done but I feel like I feel creative and I want to take pictures and like write stuff down and just you know create in other ways but yeah

Brian Funk:

I brought my OP-1 to Utah and I didn't take it out once.

Lynden Williams:

Right? I always pack something. I'm gonna pack my future OP1 field when I get

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

it again someday.

Brian Funk:

No fault of the OP-1. I mean, it's exactly perfect for that. But

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah.

Brian Funk:

it is busy, family activities and stuff.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

But

Lynden Williams:

and we

Brian Funk:

it's

Lynden Williams:

stare at screens all day, you know, it's hard.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, it's nice not to. It was, but I do feel that kind of like recharge. Yeah, after I've been away and kind of just settling back into being home again and you know, like something's happening.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited. I feel like I do way better creative work in the fall and winter, like music writing. I always release stuff in the summer, in the spring. But I guess that's not completely true because I put out my last EP in December. But most of it was done by the end of summer. Like, I just love writing. like in the colder months. Like, I guess it's a reason to

Brian Funk:

Because

Lynden Williams:

stay inside.

Brian Funk:

inside,

Lynden Williams:

I never hum, yet we're always outside in the summer.

Brian Funk:

yeah,

Lynden Williams:

In my non-work hours, right?

Brian Funk:

it's hard to be inside when it's a beautiful day out. You know, I mean, that always gets me in the summer. I have summer vacation from work as a teacher, and I always think I'm going to do so much, but then I sit in my basement where I do most of my work, and I'm kind of like, so nice out. You know?

Lynden Williams:

I want to go outside. I know,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I'm like going to go swimming tonight or something. I'm feeling like, yeah, it's time to get out today.

Brian Funk:

Well, you did the hard work of getting the record ready and, you know, promoting it, leaking, not leaking, I guess, but, you know, putting your singles out.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, four singles was a lot, and I don't know if I would recommend four or three or two. I don't know, but it felt like fine. I don't know. I don't think there's a right way to do it, honestly.

Brian Funk:

I don't understand why it's, you know, single, single album release and that's like the end of the story, it seems.

Lynden Williams:

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm trying to figure out right now, because I'm just like, well, we want to do another music video, because we did some really, well, produced music videos with some friends. My friend is a director, Trevor Free. And

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

then

Brian Funk:

videos

Lynden Williams:

we,

Brian Funk:

you put out were great.

Lynden Williams:

I

Brian Funk:

Really

Lynden Williams:

thought they turned out so cool because of,

Brian Funk:

interesting

Lynden Williams:

you

Brian Funk:

and

Lynden Williams:

know, my,

Brian Funk:

visually

Lynden Williams:

yeah,

Brian Funk:

really cool.

Lynden Williams:

the concept with the couch was like my wife wrote it with Trevor. And. He directed it and it was just like so fun to be like on set doing that, especially when I was just like, I can't take credit. Like I was the artist and I was in it, but like their concept came through so well, you know, and

Brian Funk:

That's really cool though to

Lynden Williams:

it was

Brian Funk:

have

Lynden Williams:

cool. It

Brian Funk:

people

Lynden Williams:

was

Brian Funk:

do

Lynden Williams:

really

Brian Funk:

that

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

for you.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, it was pretty awesome. Like honestly, it was so cool to see a vision come together on behalf of my song. Like that was special. And then the blind spot video, we just shot me, Doves and Brenna. Like we just, it was in my buddy's basement. Like he has an underground Japanese inspired tape bar. They just play cassettes and it's got like a few seats and it's a tiny space like hidden underneath this ramen bar. It was

Brian Funk:

Never

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

heard of that.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, it was cool. You should have come to Salt Lake. But there's some cool little things happening in the city of Salt Lake, man. I hope more people come to visit and lots of musicians and yeah, I'm happy here right now for sure. I like it more than LA. Yeah.

Brian Funk:

L.A.'s a lot.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's cool. It's happening.

Lynden Williams:

And everyone wants

Brian Funk:

It's

Lynden Williams:

to tell

Brian Funk:

similar.

Lynden Williams:

you about how cool what they're doing is.

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

They'll

Brian Funk:

that

Lynden Williams:

tell

Brian Funk:

has

Lynden Williams:

you how

Brian Funk:

that...

Lynden Williams:

happy it is, especially them. Some of my best friends live in LA, and they're doing great work, but it is exhausting. And I think that's why they often leave, to seek refuge somewhere else for a while, and then go back. And it's hard to afford LA with two kids.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. New York's like that too. The city is, I mean, it's awesome. It's exciting. And I could have probably imagined maybe as a younger person in my early twenties wanting to live there for a little while,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

but you know, when I go to the city, one of my favorite parts is leaving.

Lynden Williams:

Right? Somebody said that.

Brian Funk:

It's a lot.

Lynden Williams:

Or that

Brian Funk:

It's

Lynden Williams:

there's

Brian Funk:

overwhelming.

Lynden Williams:

a time frame, right? A lot of the people I know who lived in the city who are older now live upstate. You know, is it like a, they say it's like a 10 year burn. And after 10 years, you're ready to move on.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I would have to imagine. Yeah, I get that pretty quick.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, you're like a 10 hour burn. I'm out.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I'll be

Brian Funk:

Well,

Lynden Williams:

there

Brian Funk:

it's

Lynden Williams:

this

Brian Funk:

a

Lynden Williams:

fall.

Brian Funk:

lot when you're...

Lynden Williams:

I'm excited.

Brian Funk:

Oh yeah, are

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

you playing? Are you?

Lynden Williams:

No, I want to, but yeah, just

Brian Funk:

working?

Lynden Williams:

shooting some stuff.

Brian Funk:

That's cool. I imagine you must be seeing a lot of really cool stuff with the work filming for Ableton because I mean the videos you guys do are so they're inspiring they're I mean they're well done of course too but um there's a lot of cool variety and artists and techniques and

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, the variety of artists is awesome, because it's never the same type of person or artist. And music, I've learned so much from all the artists I get to hang with and chat with. And I think that's a huge reason why. the record was able to be finished as well. Just like the amount of things I was able to learn in a shorter time than I would have just sitting here alone in my studio, you know? And so just being around those types of people all the time was really inspiring.

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

I

Brian Funk:

people

Lynden Williams:

wanna create

Brian Funk:

that are doing

Lynden Williams:

too.

Brian Funk:

things,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, and then you like,

Brian Funk:

actively working on stuff.

Lynden Williams:

yeah, yeah. So it's cool, Ableton is a. is a wonderful organization and group of people. And I don't just say that because I work for them. I feel like super lucky to work for a company that really cares about people and cares about the music making and not just trying to put out products and turn a huge profit. Like, obviously. It's a company, but I feel like everyone there, from the top down, really cares about what we're doing. And we're all music makers as well. Super lucky, and I hope it never ends.

Brian Funk:

I always tell people that's probably why I use it, use Live. When I was, I was, you know, I got a computer to make music on in something like 2005. Sold a really nice Tascam mixer to get a computer. And I was using Pro Tools, because it's the only thing I ever heard of.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

Eventually, after a couple years, I wound up on Logic, and I loved Logic.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

And that was then beginning to be around the time 2008 or so where you could find stuff on YouTube and learn how to do things on YouTube.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

So I was looking up tutorials and

Lynden Williams:

Who was your,

Brian Funk:

how

Lynden Williams:

like,

Brian Funk:

do I

Lynden Williams:

do

Brian Funk:

do

Lynden Williams:

you

Brian Funk:

it?

Lynden Williams:

have an early tutorial teacher that you remember?

Brian Funk:

Oh yeah, so there was Brian Trifon from

Lynden Williams:

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

Trifonic, who I would only know because of his tutorials. I guess they do a lot of film work. He was doing a lot of Logic tutorials,

Lynden Williams:

Nice.

Brian Funk:

and there was also SF Logic Ninja.

Lynden Williams:

Nice.

Brian Funk:

David Earl said something like that?

Lynden Williams:

That's cool.

Brian Funk:

Tom Cosm came up a lot

Lynden Williams:

Great,

Brian Funk:

back in those

Lynden Williams:

yeah.

Brian Funk:

days. But this is what started to happen was I'm looking up logic tutorials, but I'm finding all these Ableton Live tutorials. I had Ableton Live from my Pro Tools package. It was like

Lynden Williams:

Oh wow.

Brian Funk:

four.

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah.

Brian Funk:

I didn't understand what it was at the time.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

But the more I was, all right, I don't know how to use a compressor in logic, but this one's in Ableton Live, how different can it be?

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

And then I start understanding live a little more. and they were so supportive as a company and fostering that.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Even when I first started making like live packs, it wasn't too long into putting out a couple free live packs that like Ableton tweeted my pack.

Lynden Williams:

That's so

Brian Funk:

I'm

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

like, what? You know, I remember getting that

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

tweet, that notification, I was like, what? You know, there's so much, like you're not getting that from Apple. With Logic, you know?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, it's different.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, it's

Lynden Williams:

Real

Brian Funk:

just

Lynden Williams:

humans,

Brian Funk:

different.

Lynden Williams:

you know.

Brian Funk:

You know, that's like, logic's great. I love it still when I've, I haven't used it much,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

but that community part drew me in a lot. And I was able to learn live faster. And then I started to understand like why it was cool. And as a songwriter, I think it's a better product

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

for me, the way I work.

Lynden Williams:

Me too. Yeah, I started, my first DAW was Logic, and then short time with Ableton.. is great honestly they're all great I mean DOS are it's just personal

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

preference right

Brian Funk:

it

Lynden Williams:

and

Brian Funk:

really

Lynden Williams:

then

Brian Funk:

is.

Lynden Williams:

found my way back to Ableton because the first time I was using Ableton I was early on in my journey and I didn't really like you said I didn't find like the right tutorials yet and I hadn't really like latched on to my purpose but once I really dove in a friend it was push actually that like connected me to like the usefulness of both together And that's when I was like, whoa, I need this.

Brian Funk:

I came across somebody, I think in my Berkeley class, one of the students maybe, who said they saw you doing their whole set on a push and that was really inspiring to them.

Lynden Williams:

Really?

Brian Funk:

Yeah, a couple years ago, maybe two years ago.

Lynden Williams:

That's cool.

Brian Funk:

Something like that, yeah. Talking about like, yeah, I saw this guy divorce court and he was doing his whole set on a push and he was really excited to get it

Lynden Williams:

That's

Brian Funk:

as a result.

Lynden Williams:

cool. Dang.

Brian Funk:

You're using push now, right? Are you using push three in the live set?

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

Oh, cool, so what's that

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

like? How's the?

Lynden Williams:

It's awesome. It's cool to have it like as the... I love having... I'm trying something new at a show this week, but I have the push as the brain and then I can have like all these synths that I want. I have like a pad, a lead, and like a cool keyboard sound, like a Rhodes. and then I have a little keyboard going in as an audio input with a little bit some effects on there on push three and that's what I love you can throw anything in as an input and then just like put some really cool effects on the track and then the

Brian Funk:

So

Lynden Williams:

other

Brian Funk:

you're using it audio interface style?

Lynden Williams:

yeah and eventually I spent so much time prepping the backtracks for the way I have it now on my computer with live. Like I think I'll keep doing that for now, but eventually it'd be cool to just trigger clips and have it all on push three. You know, that would be awesome. Especially the more we go into this route of like, hybrid triggering and stuff like that. But what's cool is from my Apollo X6, I'm running some of the tracks. Like I pick one or two sounds to run out of my Apollo into my 404 Mark II, and then out of my 404 into the Push. And so I'm like using the 404 as like an effects brain and like live audio manipulator for just a few tracks from each song live. Does that make sense?

Brian Funk:

So you're running,

Lynden Williams:

For

Brian Funk:

that's

Lynden Williams:

instance,

Brian Funk:

coming

Lynden Williams:

like

Brian Funk:

out of

Lynden Williams:

on.

Brian Funk:

your computer. So you have like an instance of live and then an instance of live coming out of the push.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, like I'm using Push just as like the like synth setup and sound creation setup. And then I'm using Live on my laptop on my MacBook has the backtracks and that sits on the floor with the audio interface. Yeah. And then I'm using the, I showed you this Oak Tone floorboard Vista on the top of my stand to like control the, they're nice buttons. to control the track so I don't have to like touch the computer. So yeah, like so for this one track I sent this like cool sampled piano out of my, out of live, out of the interface into the 404 and then that goes into the push so the audio from that goes out to the house from the push's output. And then like, but on the 404 I can like, yeah, the first three is like the brain, basically. And this is all the work in progress, honestly. And every show

Brian Funk:

I haven't

Lynden Williams:

it changes.

Brian Funk:

thought about that.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, that

Brian Funk:

So.

Lynden Williams:

was actually an idea from Dove's. Cause I think the 404 is like the best, just like effects box.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I remember

Lynden Williams:

And

Brian Funk:

you

Lynden Williams:

then

Brian Funk:

saying that last time we spoke.

Lynden Williams:

I love it, yeah. And then I'll chop some samples from the set and like put them on the 404's pads to like play as well.

Brian Funk:

They made a new one, right? A new 404.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

Is that what you're using or are you using an older one?

Lynden Williams:

I'm using the new one. Where is it? It has a screen for like an actual screen for chopping samples, which is cool.

Brian Funk:

The last time we spoke you got me like that close to checking one out. You might be like pushing me over the edge now.

Lynden Williams:

I mean, I don't have an affiliate code, so I mean.

Brian Funk:

You know what I hadn't really thought about is that you can use live and push separately now.

Lynden Williams:

That's what I'm doing, yeah.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, that's crazy because when I play live through live with Ableton Live I'm really just using my Push as an instrument. I'm just playing synths and drums on it.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, that's

Brian Funk:

And

Lynden Williams:

what

Brian Funk:

then I

Lynden Williams:

I

Brian Funk:

have

Lynden Williams:

was

Brian Funk:

an APC-40

Lynden Williams:

doing.

Brian Funk:

that's doing

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

clips and stuff. But now you're getting me thinking, like, wow, it's just... They've always marketed Push as an instrument.

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

Not a MIDI controller so much like, but an instrument. But now you can actually use it. an instrument and keep

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

live on another computer running. That's really interesting.

Lynden Williams:

Well, and the crazy thing is like you could plug, you can plug a MIDI controller into Push. So you could have Push as your like synth and have the pads, but also have like a 37 or 49 or whatever keys

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

there. So they work together. But for me, the pads are really fun because of the MPE, but that's great because now with the Push there, I have a sampler. This Yamaha just has an audio input. and then on push I have as many synths and sounds as I want and then I just keep it on the mixer mode at the top so I can just kind of tweak as I need

Brian Funk:

Wow.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah. And then it's all separate. So I have that going separate, tracks going on live on the computer, and then vocal going through the UAD console, straight to the house separately.

Brian Funk:

Right, and that has all the built-in effects, right?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

So.

Lynden Williams:

and it's on DSP so it processes out of the, on the interface, not on the computer. So it's like trying to be safe because I had some computer issues with some shows a year or two ago.

Brian Funk:

Oh yeah.

Lynden Williams:

And I don't want to run into that again, just because I was being dumb and like running like tons of stuff on my vocal chain and playing VSDs and like it was just like bad planning.

Brian Funk:

I've always tried to keep any plugins to a minimum.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I was not

Brian Funk:

I was

Lynden Williams:

following

Brian Funk:

using

Lynden Williams:

that protocol.

Brian Funk:

just like, it was Isotope Nectar for

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

like an autotune effect,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, that's cool.

Brian Funk:

but that was the only one. Everything else was native just because, I mean, if live crashes, it's almost always plugin related.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I've noticed that and now I keep them all updated and I'm not having any issues. And yeah, it's been cool. I like figuring it out, you know, and then my bandmate Chase is running his guitar through live and has like a whole chain of effects. So he's sending like a stereo.

Brian Funk:

a separate life.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah. But

Brian Funk:

OK,

Lynden Williams:

he

Brian Funk:

cool.

Lynden Williams:

has a push three coming. So he'll have his push three and he'll run his guitar through the push three. So right there he'll have his guitar out going through and then all his effects on there and then he'll have a synth too.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

Cause you can just track the guitar to in and then switch over and play the synth while the audio is still coming through.

Brian Funk:

Right. That's really interesting. I

Lynden Williams:

Pretty

Brian Funk:

mean, I've

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

thought about one of the things I'm excited about finally getting one would be that it's a synth. You know, it's just like, I can make patches on it. I can fool around and just play it like that. But I, I never thought of the possibility of. I figured if I'm going to be using Push and Live, they'd have to be working together, but they could be totally independent still.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

That's really interesting.

Lynden Williams:

That's exciting. I'm excited to try it this weekend.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, right, so it kind of saves some like, almost like a redundancy thing too.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, because

Brian Funk:

We

Lynden Williams:

like

Brian Funk:

still

Lynden Williams:

if

Brian Funk:

have.

Lynden Williams:

something, yeah, you'd always have something going.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Because what I learned from Will, if anything, from studio to stage, when I was subscribed, it's like keep things as separate as possible for safety, you know?

Brian Funk:

I've always run everything through live. The vocals,

Lynden Williams:

I mean that's the thing

Brian Funk:

all the

Lynden Williams:

is

Brian Funk:

tracks.

Lynden Williams:

it probably will work most of the time, you know?

Brian Funk:

I never had a problem.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

The only time I ever had a problem was when I just, I had a... The old APC-40 has a crossfader on the bottom and all

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

the play, stop, and record buttons are there. And I was using that crossfader to make like a kind of record scratch noise using a delay

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

on repitch

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

mode. And I would just kind of fiddle around with that, like just to spice things up here

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

and there. And I just hit the stop button one night because it's right under there.

Lynden Williams:

And then did you have to start it started back at the playhead, right?

Brian Funk:

starts back in the beginning. I'm using clips and session views. So it's just like, I just was, you know, it was late at night and I don't think anyone even knew what was going on at that point. But I was like...

Lynden Williams:

I used to use SessionG for backtracks using consolidated clips and then using follow actions to automatically send it to the next part of the song. But then in case I could go back if I needed to. Right?

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

So I would do intro, verse, chorus. I'd have them broken out. It was a pain to set up, but that was always my way of trying to have it be foolproof. You know?

Brian Funk:

And that was probably before you had follow actions on the master.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Right. So on this, you know, on each scene. Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm. It was just on the per clip. Yeah.

Brian Funk:

that sounds.

Lynden Williams:

I spent too many hours trying to program because it's so different for everybody, you know.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

That's the cool thing about having a band, the more we go along, the less we're like feeling the need to have too much. You know. But we're always gonna

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

have something in the back, I think.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I haven't really done it with a band, you know, used live. I record everything on live that we do, but I'm not using it for anything. You know, that's kind of what we're doing is more like garage rock kind of thing anyway, so it doesn't really call for it as much as say something like what you're doing. It would be a lot of fun though. I've wanted to do it, but it would be a whole rethinking.

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

It would be really like a different band, even if it was

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

the same people. It would almost have to be something else.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

But it's pretty... that's this blank canvas thing. The thought of it is exciting, but it's also like, I don't even know where we would start.

Lynden Williams:

Right?

Brian Funk:

Like maybe you shouldn't play the bass, maybe you need an electronic kit, you know, I don't know.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, yeah, there's so much to think about. But it's been good, man. I mean, it's fun. It's fun to just keep going and think about what's next. But I keep getting reminded to like, hey, celebrate, like I've had friends. Make sure you celebrate the release and it's hard to not just be like, what's next? Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, no, that's true. And you got to enjoy that. You know, what you've got going now is cool.

Lynden Williams:

Thanks.

Brian Funk:

And you know how bands are. I mean, here today gone tomorrow too. So,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

I mean, it sounds like you have like a good group with you, but.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, they're great.

Brian Funk:

if you don't notice what you have while you have it.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah. Yeah, that's true, man. I always try to like check back in and say like, yeah, I'm very lucky. You know, I have like. I have things to be grateful for. Family job, music,

Brian Funk:

Mm.

Lynden Williams:

cool toys to play with and friends, relationships.

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I

Brian Funk:

good

Lynden Williams:

think it's.

Brian Funk:

problems to have,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah,

Brian Funk:

like

Lynden Williams:

I mean,

Brian Funk:

what's

Lynden Williams:

it's like,

Brian Funk:

next? Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

yeah,

Brian Funk:

that's a

Lynden Williams:

what's

Brian Funk:

good problem.

Lynden Williams:

next is a good problem. And I'm

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

so lucky. I'm lucky to even like be on this podcast. Like so many artists are making stuff. And it's cool that there's a small group of people out there who notice when we put something out, you know. So thanks for having me.

Brian Funk:

Hey, I love having you. It's great.

Lynden Williams:

Thanks.

Brian Funk:

I love what you're doing and it was a lot of fun watching the way you did the build up to the album was really cool. Seeing some of the behind the scenes stuff with the videos.

Lynden Williams:

Oh yeah, I'm actually editing a true behind the scenes for Woodcrest, the music video that we had shot. Yeah, it's cool. I'm just going to leave it really unedited because I think it's interesting to see everything that went into all the shots.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, because you built like a whole set and everything,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, Brenna,

Brian Funk:

complicated stuff.

Lynden Williams:

my partner Brenna, like there's like a time lapse in there of her building out that set.

Brian Funk:

I might have seen that.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, and then all the footage of the crew and where we shot it, it's this beautiful studio, Modo Studios here in Utah. It was cool, man. It was like a, feels like a once in a lifetime thing, you know?

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

But.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, that's, you know, like you kind of said earlier, the door's open for success, money, fame, fortune, but, you know, who knows?

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

But what you do know is that you had that stuff and you've got this stuff coming up. And that's, you know, if that's anything that you get out of it, it's great.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, for sure. And yeah, like, it's kind of like a trip. Like, you may like, I never regret any trips that I take with the family. even if it costs a lot of money or time or if it's stressful or if it's like, if the girl, if my kids don't adjust well for a bit to like the time change, it's the best, like the memories and the time. It's just different putting ourselves in a different environment. And I feel the same about the time and money that we spent on the record and art and just, yeah, art in general, any projects we do, like you're not going to say, I wish I didn't do that.

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

You know what I mean? Like you don't look back and think like, Oh, why did I create that thing?

Brian Funk:

Why did I make this album?

Lynden Williams:

Like, Mx loves me too, you know? This album was sponsored by American

Brian Funk:

Making friends.

Lynden Williams:

Express, you know what I mean? You don't have to, yeah, there's so many ways to go about it, you know? I don't think my way is the best way, but I'm really grateful and happy that it happened.

Brian Funk:

You remind me of a feeling I had just recently with going to Utah, actually. Um, it's a little stress leading up to it. We have a dog. What are we going to do with her? Um, we need someone to watch her. Um, we, we just lost one of our dogs. We had two. Um,

Lynden Williams:

I'm sorry.

Brian Funk:

she passed. Yes.

Lynden Williams:

She was older, right?

Brian Funk:

Um, No, she was the younger one actually. We got her as a puppy.

Lynden Williams:

Oh, wow.

Brian Funk:

Such a good dog. I'm still having a hard time with it. It's been about a month.

Lynden Williams:

Oh wow,

Brian Funk:

But

Lynden Williams:

it was recent.

Brian Funk:

yeah, it happened fast. But we had this trip coming up and do we want to leave the other dog alone with somebody? And then like the actual travel or the delays and the

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

cramped airplane

Lynden Williams:

JFK.

Brian Funk:

and JFK. I mean, I was really saying like, is this worth it?

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

You know, is it worth it to do all this? And even the ride, the getting home was like, it was arduous. You know, it was. two full days of travel when you add them up just based on delays and what

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

not. But now even just less than a week out, looking back, like that's not what I'm remembering, you know, it's all the other stuff and

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

there's a lot of value in there. And even if it's worth a couple of days of stress and travel and you know, things, things work out and You can take from it what you want. And if I want to take away from that trip that the airplane sucked and

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

we had delays, that's what I can pay attention to, I guess. But it was really good. It probably did come at a good time, too, just considering all the stuff we'd been through in the last

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

couple months to see family.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

It's, you don't regret it

Lynden Williams:

No.

Brian Funk:

to get to your point.

Lynden Williams:

Sorry about your dog, that sucks.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, thanks man.

Lynden Williams:

I think it's like the same thing with like, nobody knows. Like you listen to an album and you're like, wow, like so much energy. This is just, oh, I love the feeling of this record, but you don't think that like, oh wow, like 80% of that was some person just sitting at their studio desk, just tinkering over sounds and just like. If you saw like a behind the scenes of the making of this record, it was just a whole lot of this. You know what I mean? Just like alone at night, 3 a.m. A lot of these vocal takes were like middle of the night. Just random times, you know? And uh... You don't think about that.

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

You know? You just think about how the music feels and... yeah. Or the mix engineer like Ryan just hunched over like just mixing and headphones

Brian Funk:

moving

Lynden Williams:

on

Brian Funk:

like

Lynden Williams:

trying to get

Brian Funk:

automation

Lynden Williams:

it right. Yeah,

Brian Funk:

nodes.

Lynden Williams:

just like trying to get it right. He was having some CPU issues with the heat and the plugins. There's just always something, some activation. For me, it's always just something I need to reset or plug in. That's why I've gone more to a really hybrid setup of less. I've always favored plugins, you know, or like real, like I love the piano. I recorded a lot of this piano, this 100 year old Gil Branson piano. I love simple, fast creation. You know, like I don't want to spend 30 minutes setting up an instrument or a device.

Brian Funk:

That's

Lynden Williams:

It's

Brian Funk:

not

Lynden Williams:

just,

Brian Funk:

fun.

Lynden Williams:

no. And that's why the Push 3 is so cool. The other night I was just like making a beat on my balcony. With headphones

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

on at night, you know.

Brian Funk:

Nice.

Lynden Williams:

sitting on the couch. It's nice.

Brian Funk:

You know, when I was in Utah, my nephew brought his guitar. He's got this beautiful guitar. And my headphones are dying. If you want another update on the AirPods, this is about

Lynden Williams:

Battery

Brian Funk:

that limit.

Lynden Williams:

life.

Brian Funk:

And he had it out at first and played it quite a bit. I think I've switched over here. There we go. But we put it in the case just to keep the place clean. And then I didn't play it until like the last day.

Lynden Williams:

Really?

Brian Funk:

Just because it's away, it's so simple. It was

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

in the same spot, but the accessibility, even something like an acoustic guitar, you don't have to plug it in, you don't

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

have to power it up and get batteries or anything.

Lynden Williams:

It's so crazy.

Brian Funk:

But just that, those four latches.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

is enough. So having like stuff ready to go.

Lynden Williams:

I always try to have everything ready and plugged in. I have all these switches. I have these American DJ power strips with switches where everything can just turn on. But every time I walk by the piano, I play at least one chord.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

I see it as

Brian Funk:

Nice.

Lynden Williams:

practice, but I'm also just, I can't walk by it without, my kids do it too, without just touching it.

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

It's just always out there. We like, there's no... I don't ever have the cover down. You know, I just want it to be out. Like yours

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

looks like yours is like that too. Whatever's back

Brian Funk:

Yeah, they're

Lynden Williams:

there.

Brian Funk:

pretty easy to power up. There's a power switch, like

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

a power strip, and then I have devices in live that are already set up, like with the external

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

instrument, they're all routed, so you just drop them in.

Lynden Williams:

So nice.

Brian Funk:

It's

Lynden Williams:

Oh, that's

Brian Funk:

not.

Lynden Williams:

one thing I wanna do now that I'm not making an album is spend like a week cleaning up my libraries and presets and deleting like old plugins that are like out of date or like

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

not supported or sample libraries. I don't delete stuff, but I have this folder in every, like. folder structure on Finder. I always have this thing called z underscore archive, because z puts it at the bottom. And I'll just like put stuff in an archive folder. Old projects or like sample libraries, I don't really like deleting them, but I just have all these archive folders. It's like a dead, a no man's land. Maybe it's hoarding, but to me it feels like an organized way to move stuff out of the way, but to still have it just in case.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, I guess if you open a session and it's got that missing files alert, you probably know the direct it to the archive at

Lynden Williams:

Exactly.

Brian Funk:

least. Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

I've, I have fantasies of just deleting everything.

Lynden Williams:

That's

Brian Funk:

Clean

Lynden Williams:

scary.

Brian Funk:

slate. I've never done it, but sometimes I think like I would get more done.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, maybe.

Brian Funk:

If I just went back to the basics. only added things as I used them instead of like for so long I've added things just in case I need them.

Lynden Williams:

I know I don't use that many different plugins. I feel like I have my go-tos. It's a mix of live devices and third parties, but I feel like I don't use most of the plugins that I have. I

Brian Funk:

No,

Lynden Williams:

really love stuff

Brian Funk:

I don't

Lynden Williams:

from

Brian Funk:

either.

Lynden Williams:

Teletone.

Brian Funk:

I don't think anyone does.

Lynden Williams:

I really love Valhalla, I use every time. I use Soundtoys every time. I use... Goodhertz, I love their plugins. The Volf compressors, amazing. Yeah, Goodhertz, H, good, H-E-R-T-Z, their stuff's insane. And I really like this stuff from Baby Audio, which you turned me on to a while ago, and then Yum Audio. They make a couple cool corky plugins.

Brian Funk:

What is the other one?

Lynden Williams:

Yum Audio?

Brian Funk:

Yum audio.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Sounds familiar, but I can't think of what they have.

Lynden Williams:

But yeah, I don't know. I say I don't use that many plugins, I start listing like a giant list, I'm like yeah.

Brian Funk:

Right.

Lynden Williams:

It's like the SpongeBob thing, it's like one hour later. And then this

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

one and this one.

Brian Funk:

Or like the movie The Jerk. I'll be fine, just need this thermos. I've got a folder in the collections in my browser in live just called try me. And that's where the new stuff goes.

Lynden Williams:

Ooh, that's nice.

Brian Funk:

You know, I tag it try me. And then when I want to try something new, I know that stuff's in there. That helps

Lynden Williams:

I like

Brian Funk:

me

Lynden Williams:

that.

Brian Funk:

remember.

Lynden Williams:

That's better than working or late. Try Me is a little more playful. It's like, hey,

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

hop in here and try it. I want to do that. Try Me.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, it's

Lynden Williams:

And that's

Brian Funk:

a good

Lynden Williams:

nice

Brian Funk:

one.

Lynden Williams:

because it doesn't just limit you. You could put a sample in there. You

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

could put a project in there that you started. Like,

Brian Funk:

Yeah, sometimes

Lynden Williams:

you know.

Brian Funk:

it's even just like something I have used or I want to come back to at some point. Just a little reminder.

Lynden Williams:

One thing I like to do is, I sound like an episode of

Brian Funk:

Hi,

Lynden Williams:

One Thing.

Brian Funk:

I'm Linden and one thing I...

Lynden Williams:

Hey, yeah, they're going on One Thing I like to do. I like to go through old projects that I never finished and just listen through the consolidated folder of samples.

Brian Funk:

that you've consolidated yourself?

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, because throughout,

Brian Funk:

Okay.

Lynden Williams:

there's different ways that those files are placed in there and get consolidated right, but there's often weird little sounds or loops or cool keyboard ideas or melodies that are in there that I never remembered. And then I don't have

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

to open up the project.

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

I just go through and hear them and then sometimes I'll start a new song from that. It's

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

pretty cool.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, right. They're also out of context.

Lynden Williams:

Totally out of context. Like that little arpeggio might sound way different with the bass and the drums, but on its own you're like, well, that's really

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

cool.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. You might hear it as like a minor chord

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

when it was...

Lynden Williams:

There was one song on the album called Take Me that started as like a loop that I made from another song on the album, like an eight bar loop, and I put it to the end,

Brian Funk:

Hmm.

Lynden Williams:

and I like just pitched the chord progression down, and it started like within the project of another song on the record, and then I moved it to its own project.

Brian Funk:

Nice.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

So good when that works out, right?

Lynden Williams:

I know. Rarely does that actually happen where it turns into a finished idea.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. But you know, it's a great way because everyone's got unused or unfinished stuff. So to just look through that file, that folder, it's a good idea because that's stuff that's probably processed a little and

Lynden Williams:

Right.

Brian Funk:

fiddled with,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

spent some time with it.

Lynden Williams:

And then you can put in a simpler and pitch it around and mess with it. Yeah, it's fun.

Brian Funk:

That's cool. It sounds like a good one thing actually. A good,

Lynden Williams:

I thought about it. If

Brian Funk:

good video.

Lynden Williams:

we ever really need... I'm the last option. I'm like the desperation option where it's like, we gotta do this. You know what I

Brian Funk:

I don't

Lynden Williams:

mean?

Brian Funk:

know, you

Lynden Williams:

Film

Brian Funk:

could probably

Lynden Williams:

myself.

Brian Funk:

just make it without telling anyone and then just... No,

Lynden Williams:

And put it out. That's not me.

Brian Funk:

no, no. This is what you guys wanted. Ha ha ha.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah. Damn.

Brian Funk:

That's funny.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

Well, cool, man. Maybe we should wrap this up. We've got late.

Lynden Williams:

We did the thing we were talking about where we went way too long. Cool.

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

Me

Brian Funk:

no, not at all. It's not too long. I

Lynden Williams:

too.

Brian Funk:

enjoyed

Lynden Williams:

Thanks

Brian Funk:

it thoroughly, man. Um,

Lynden Williams:

for watching.

Brian Funk:

I love the new record. I've always enjoyed your music, but I, this is a definite evolution. And, um, very happy for you to hear how far you've come musically

Lynden Williams:

Thank

Brian Funk:

and

Lynden Williams:

you man, so nice.

Brian Funk:

artistically and all that, and, you know, just success with the job and with Ableton. And, um, you know, it's been a cool journey you've been on the last few years.

Lynden Williams:

As my friend Trevor, who made the music

Brian Funk:

parenting,

Lynden Williams:

videos with me, would say,

Brian Funk:

all that, yeah.

Lynden Williams:

he says, too blessed to be stressed. You

Brian Funk:

I

Lynden Williams:

know,

Brian Funk:

like that.

Lynden Williams:

it's true.

Brian Funk:

Too blessed to be stressed.

Lynden Williams:

Too blessed to be stressed.

Brian Funk:

Yeah. You know what? Cause like, it's easy to focus on the things that stress you out. You know, they tend to zoom into your, you

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

know, face, but um,

Lynden Williams:

My face.

Brian Funk:

whatever it's zooming into. It's uh, when you can, I've heard it said like, you can't be angry and grateful at the same time. I

Lynden Williams:

Mm-hmm.

Brian Funk:

don't know if that's true. Somebody

Lynden Williams:

Maybe

Brian Funk:

said it,

Lynden Williams:

this gratitude

Brian Funk:

but.

Lynden Williams:

is the secret, right?

Brian Funk:

Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

yeah, so to bless to be stressed

Lynden Williams:

do less

Brian Funk:

is

Lynden Williams:

to be

Brian Funk:

a

Lynden Williams:

stressed ever

Brian Funk:

nice

Lynden Williams:

free

Brian Funk:

concise way of putting that.

Lynden Williams:

okay thank you guys thank you and thank you to anyone who listens thanks for listening to the record and uh...

Brian Funk:

Yeah.

Lynden Williams:

we

Brian Funk:

Well, people should check out Divorce Court two hours, wherever you stream your music. Um, is it divorcecourt.com?

Lynden Williams:

Yes, with two T's, because the other one was taken.

Brian Funk:

because I should say the funny story about you sent me a shirt some years back and it came in the mail and it said the return address was divorce court and my wife was like, what is this? I think, don't worry. Yeah,

Lynden Williams:

That's funny.

Brian Funk:

it could easily be misinterpreted.

Lynden Williams:

I should do that again. The last few things I've sent out, I put my name, but I should do that. It's probably pretty funny, right? For the mailman.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, oh boy.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

They all put that in the

Lynden Williams:

Good

Brian Funk:

box.

Lynden Williams:

luck. Ha ha ha. Ha

Brian Funk:

Sorry.

Lynden Williams:

ha.

Brian Funk:

Well, cool. Two T's then.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, two Gs.

Brian Funk:

Divorcecourt.com. And yeah, the album is very easy to find. And then you can get to YouTube through there too. And I'll put all this stuff in the show notes.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, and I think I should real quick plug, if you're gonna go to my website, plug a really good friend of mine's startup, they're called Supertape, and that's what my website's built on. Just strictly for musicians. It's like an auto-updating link tree of sorts, but it's a full website, and every time you upload a merch to Bandcamp or wherever or a new song, it brings it all in and automatically puts it on.

Brian Funk:

That's cool.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to say that, because I would only do this if it helped immensely and if it was a really good product, and they're such a cool small team. I think for all your listeners, real music makers, it's just a cool thing, for sure.

Brian Funk:

Yeah, well

Lynden Williams:

And I

Brian Funk:

that's.

Lynden Williams:

got tired of updating my Linktree, right? Every time I put out a song, change the pre-save, change

Brian Funk:

Mm-hmm.

Lynden Williams:

the video, this does it all in one place. And I think my website looks really nice, because thanks to them, you know?

Brian Funk:

Well that's

Lynden Williams:

It's

Brian Funk:

like

Lynden Williams:

just...

Brian Funk:

a pain in the ass thing. Every time you make something new, you gotta post it everywhere.

Lynden Williams:

Exactly. And it

Brian Funk:

It's...

Lynden Williams:

always just stays the same. And like, yeah, if I have new merch or tickets to a show, it's all there. Really

Brian Funk:

Hmm,

Lynden Williams:

nice.

Brian Funk:

I'll

Lynden Williams:

Super,

Brian Funk:

check that out

Lynden Williams:

super

Brian Funk:

too.

Lynden Williams:

tape.

Brian Funk:

I like

Lynden Williams:

Yeah.

Brian Funk:

that.

Lynden Williams:

Cool.

Brian Funk:

Thanks man.

Lynden Williams:

Yeah, appreciate it.

Brian Funk:

And thank you to anyone that's listening. Have a great day.